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Why Does God Allow Christians to Suffer?
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| 11/8/09
| One Vike
Posted on 11/08/2009 8:11:33 AM PST by OneVike
Why does God allow there to be evil in the world? Are we not all created in the image of God? Many ask, and few seem to have good answers, for the question of, "Why God didn’t just create us so that we would never have to experience pain, suffering, and sadness?" After all, He has the power to make the world free of evil, yet He chose instead to make us creatures with free will. Thus, free will was the door left open for the possibility of evil to exist. If we have the right to chose between right and wrong, there is a 50% chance that we will chose to do the wrong thing and thus suffer the consequences of our sin. But why did He not just make us all good? Why must we live with the possibility that we, and others, may chose to do something that will harm us and the world we live in. After all, is he not a loving God? Either He's not as powerful as we're led to believe, not as perfect as we're led to believe, or He's just another abusive father who enjoys watching his children suffer. What's the purpose? Why does God allow evil and suffering?
God could have made us perfect without the ability to sin, and we would have never known pain and suffering. To do so however, would have meant that we would not have free choice in whether or not we would love Him. We would be like Chatty Cathy dolls mimicking whatever it is He wanted to hear us say and forcing us to do exactly what he wanted us to do. Is that the kind of life you would wish to live? Well, obviously God did not think so, that is why He made us creatures with a free will. That free will allowed Adam and Eve to disobey of their own volition and partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They exercised the right of choice that God had given them. They could have refused to disobey God's command about the fruit, but they did not. Because they didn't, we have the sin that has been passed down. All of us, believers and non-believers alike, wrestle with the daily struggles of the "Adam and Eve" within us. Only through the power of Jesus' Holy Spirit in us can we truly have victory over the nature that was handed down to us.
As Christians, we should all know this already, but so many cannot complete the picture when they face sorrow and pain. This is why so many Christians inevitably ask the question, “Why am I suffering God? Why do my loved ones suffer?" But wait... there's more. What if on the day we accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior, we were given God's total and complete protection, so nothing bad ever happened to us again? Well, do you remember what Satan said to God about Lot?
"
Does Job fear God for nothing? Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face.”
Job 1:9-11
Can you imagine what would happen if God did put a hedge about us on every side? Would not the people of the world who do not know Christ, say:
"So what, that you love God. Anybody would love God if He protected them the way He does you. I'm not impressed. Your God doesn't offer me anything; I live in the real world."
However, what if on the other hand, those people were watching us suffer? They saw the way we dealt with the same issues of pain, suffering and disappointment as they deal with. Yet we still looked to our Father in heaven with love and gratefulness for His loving mercy that allows us to be free enough to learn and grow through our trials and tribulations. Consider the following passages, the next time you ask, why does God allow pain and suffering in a Christian's life?
There was the time when the apostles were flogged and ordered not to speak in the name of Jesus. When they were released they considered it worthy to be able to suffer for the name of Christ. Acts 5:40-42 We are told by Christ that when people persecute us and falsely say all kinds of evil against us because of Him, that we should "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven will be great.” Matthew 5:11-12 James tells us that we should consider it all joy when we encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of our faith produces endurance. James 1:2-4 These and other passages like them describe rejoicing, not in spite of the suffering, but because of it. Remember what Paul says about not losing heart over the fact that our flesh is decaying with age and infirmities,
"because our trials will renew our spirit daily............for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal,” 2 Cor 4:16-18
This is the same man who just a few short paragraphs later described the many trials and tribulations he went through. He endured imprisonments, beatings with whips and rods, he was stoned not once but three times and left for dead. Three times he was shipwrecked, threatened by robbers, Gentiles, Jews, attacked by wild animals, bitten by a poisonous snake, left cold, hungry, thirsty, and suffered many other hardships for the gospel of Christ. 2 Cor 11:23-27 Through it all Paul ran the race well. People saw that his faith in God was persistent, consistent, and profound. And they learned to trust Paul's God, not in spite of his pain and misery, but Praise God, because of it. Paul was the greatest and most successful evangelical missionary preacher the world had ever seen. It was his suffering along with that of the other apostles that eventually changed an empire. Tertullian said that, “The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church”. It is through times of struggle and hardships that we as Christians can shine the brightest and reach more of the lost, that is, if we react to our pain and suffering in the way Christ did.
Use the comfort you get from God in your suffering as training so you might comfort others. Teach those who don't know the Lord to lean on Him in their suffering by leaning on Him in yours. Show them that you love Him and trust Him and know that He'll see you through even this. Bring them to Him as your faithful, loving Father in your times of trouble. Show them who He is. Remember that we as Christians, must willingly approach our infirmities and hardships, knowing that we hold a greater prize before us after this life than this world can ever offer. That is what we have to teach the world. So ask not why you suffer, but praise God for the chance to shine and be an example as our Lord was for us.
But you may then reply that your suffering from a debilitating disease or terrible accident is not truly suffering for Christ sake. Oh, but your sufferings certainly are. Why? Because people are watching you and they are seeing how you as a Christian respond to the cruelty of this world. In your suffering, you need Him more than ever. Show them what a wonderful, comforting Lord you have. Give purpose and meaning to your suffering. Remember that the good times will never be as productive for Him as your bad times will be. Rejoice that Jesus has considered you worthy of suffering in His name. Carry your infirmity and shame with a sense of worthiness so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. For a day will come when you shall be given a crown of righteousness, and forever your pain and suffering shall be over and forgotten, as you spend eternity in the presence of the great, I Am.
I pray that those who have ears to hear will hear His voice and call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen
(Should anyone desire prayer, or would like to discuss, on a personal level, your desire to learn more about salvation and what Christ has to offer. (You can email me ). All information will be kept in strict confidentiality between you me and God.)
TOPICS: General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: christ; evangelize; job; suffering; tribulations
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After the incident this past week at Fort Hood, many will undoubtedly ask again, why does God allow suffering, well I did not answer it as a whole for all people.
However I do offer my opinion why Christians must suffer, and I am sure that there are Christian suffering right now because of loved ones and relatives who are suffering from the heinous act of terrorism at Fort Hood this past week. And I am sure that their are some Christian soldiers, who are now recovering in the same hospital as their attacker is. I pray this goes a little ways to alleviate the pain, suffering, heartache, and angst that is felt by many.
1
posted on
11/08/2009 8:11:33 AM PST
by
OneVike
To: OneVike
Actually, the question is
"Why does God allow/permit the righteous to suffer and the wicked to prosper.
2
posted on
11/08/2009 8:16:59 AM PST
by
Nachum
(The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
To: OneVike
God allows you to suffer to teach you character and to grow in character.
Of course, if one wants to wallow in pity for all the suffering then you just become a caricature.
3
posted on
11/08/2009 8:19:06 AM PST
by
Vendome
(Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
To: OneVike
Tough love. I look at life here as boot camp for heaven.
4
posted on
11/08/2009 8:22:02 AM PST
by
huldah1776
( Worthy is the Lamb)
To: Alex Murphy; Whenifhow; rom; Hanna548; DvdMom; leftyontheright; FrdmLvr; jblann1; SendShaqtoIraq; ..
Article Ping!
Today I take in the question of, "Why does God allow Christians to suffer?"
I pray this helps any who have wondered but just couldn't come up with an answer.
If you want added or removed from my ping list please
click this link
5
posted on
11/08/2009 8:23:11 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: OneVike
"God" does not
"allow" christians to suffer.
Christians bring suffering - or the lack thereof - on themselves.
Proof?
Look who was elected in 2008!
Christians and christian leaning voters could have stopped this from happening. They didn't.
Christians are now "suffering" from the results of those elections.
Let's see how we'll all do in 2010 and 2012.
Just like baseball....there's always the next game.
6
posted on
11/08/2009 8:25:48 AM PST
by
Logic n' Reason
(If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.)
To: OneVike
” If we have the right to chose between right and wrong, there is a 50% chance that we will chose to do the wrong thing and thus suffer the consequences of our sin.”
Think about what this sentence implies. I don’t think the author had his brain in gear when he/she put this together.
This is a good argument for having someone go over your work before you publish. Next time, this person should think a bit before publishing. It’s basically gibberish.
7
posted on
11/08/2009 8:26:04 AM PST
by
Habibi
To: huldah1776
Does that mean that Heaven will be even tougher?
8
posted on
11/08/2009 8:26:09 AM PST
by
maro
(Repeal the 8th Amendment)
To: OneVike
We have free will but the wonder is why did God give us free will?
9
posted on
11/08/2009 8:28:29 AM PST
by
ex-snook
("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
To: OneVike
Why did God permit his Son to die?
10
posted on
11/08/2009 8:31:54 AM PST
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: Nachum
"Why does God allow/permit the righteous to suffer and the wicked to prosper.
The wicked only think they are prospering, it all comes down to what you consider to be prosperous. Jesus owned nothing, traveled less than 30 miles from his birth place, yet he was richer than the emperor of Rome.
Bill Gates, George Soros, and others like them are not better off than I am, they just have more temptation to sin, and thus a more difficult time lies before them when they need to get through that needle.
To me it is all perspective, what do you treasure and hold onto to? This world is passing and that is the lesson we should grasp from the pain and suffering we endure. Someday the pain for the followers of Christ will be over, but those who think they are well off yet do not accept Him. Well my friend, their suffering has just begun.
11
posted on
11/08/2009 8:32:02 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: OneVike
Would you rather suffer here on earth for awhile or in hell for eternity?
I’ll take suffering now.
12
posted on
11/08/2009 8:32:43 AM PST
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: OneVike
This is a nice attempt, but falls short. It fails to address the question: why does God allow the INNOCENT to suffer? Why does God allow children to be brutalized and killed?
Fortunately, the answer is quite simple if you understand a basic math principle - infinity.
Heaven is eternal life in God’s love. An infinite immersion in all that is good. Think about that. Any finite quantity becomes zero *when compared to infinity*. Any mathematician worth his salt will tell you that X over infinity is zero for all finite values of X, be it one, one hundred, or one hundred trillion.
That means that any amount of finite suffering we experience in this life becomes irrelevant if we except Jesus and ascend to Heaven. The innocent are guaranteed access to Heaven, so their suffering, too, becomes zero when they enter the eternal. No one in Heaven could ever look back at worldly suffering and think it relevant in relation to the eternal.
One final analogy: it’s akin to me asking you for a mundane penny in return for a trillion dollars. That’s an exceptionally good return, right? Except it’s greater than that because a trillion dollars might run out, but God’s love never does.
13
posted on
11/08/2009 8:35:47 AM PST
by
bolobaby
To: OneVike
From the oldest book in the Bible. Job 19:25 "As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. Job 19:26 "Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
Job 19:27 Whom I myself shall behold,
And whom my eyes will see and not another.
My heart faints within me!
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
14
posted on
11/08/2009 8:36:07 AM PST
by
Uri’el-2012
(Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
To: Logic n' Reason
There might not be a “next game” if we’re not careful.
15
posted on
11/08/2009 8:38:14 AM PST
by
malkee
(Actually I'm an ex-smoker--more than three years now -- But I think about it every day.)
To: Habibi
This is a good argument for having someone go over your work before you publish. Next time, this person should think a bit before publishing. Its basically gibberish.
Free will means you get to make the choice. All decisions in your life have a 50% chance of being right and being wrong, the difference is made by whom you put your faith in. I like my odds with Christ and His word. However even as a Christian I have to decide between good and evil.
16
posted on
11/08/2009 8:39:27 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: ex-snook
We have free will but the wonder is why did God give us free will?
With out free will we would be robots, and God would be a cosmic rapist forcing his love upon us. Would you not want your spouse to willingly love you? Or do you force your love?
This world is like dating, when we have lived and decided, than we get married, but in the Christians perspective we marry Christ and than the dating is over. However during the dating process we had free will to chose who our lover would be. This world or Christ.
I chose Christ out of my own free will that was granted to me by God.
Who do you chose?
17
posted on
11/08/2009 8:44:23 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: Salvation
Why did God permit his Son to die?
With out the shedding of blood thare is no remision of sin. God's Son was the perfect Adam who had to shed His blood to make up for the fallen Adam who sold us into the bondage of sin.
Only Gods perfect Son would fit the bill, only God could pay the price and set us free from the penalty if sin which is death.
Who would you suggest would have been more suited to die for your sins?
18
posted on
11/08/2009 8:48:32 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: OneVike
The angels also had free will and there is wonder why He created those. BTW I agree with you on Jesus redeeming us.
19
posted on
11/08/2009 8:53:25 AM PST
by
ex-snook
("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
To: malkee
"...if were not careful."CAREFUL, HELL!!!!
We've been careful....and look where it's gotten us!!!!
No..."careful" be damned! It is now time to fight...fight with every weapon, every means, every effort we can mount. It is time to scream bloody murder!
It is time to state our conservative values in no uncertain terms. It is time to find truthful, courageous, conservative leaders and do whatever we must to promote them. It is time to kill the poor excuse for public media and re-establish true skillful objective journalism. It is time to reform "health care" by starting where the expenses are - medical tort reform and medical care costs. It is time to stop bending over backward to be "politically correct". It is time to hunt down those who would do intentional harm to this society and remove them - permanently. It is time to remove all - repeat ALL illegal aliens from our country - including their offspring. It is time to close ALL of our borders to illegals from anywhere. It is time to stop accepting the pseudo-physchological pap being fed to our youth by the US public education system. It is time to bring back non-union manufacturing jobs to this country. It is time to stop buying from any company that re-sells it's "product" to us after buying it from China.
It is time for us to rise up and stop the nonsense!
IT IS TIME FOR US TO FIGHT!
20
posted on
11/08/2009 8:55:22 AM PST
by
Logic n' Reason
(If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.)
To: OneVike
God is a god of order and principles. He put alot ofthat in place when he made creation. Of course, we changed the game when we did the one thing he asked us not to do. so we are actually bound by some of the curses of the fallen world.
95% of the suffering in the world is created by mankind hurting mankind. (especially when you look at the plight caused to humans by evil rulers). so although i do believe in God’s providence and sovereignty...he would have to do 1000 miracles every day for each person in order to protect us from killing or hurting each other....
i hate to see folks constantly blaming him. even when you look at the other 5%—natural disasters—again, these are systems that were put into place to maintain the planet and our universe. yet we blame god when they affect us—sometimes in spite of knowledge which he has released to humankind that would help us control or avoid these disasters. so why do we constantly blame god for this as well?
21
posted on
11/08/2009 8:55:38 AM PST
by
applpie
To: bolobaby
This is a nice attempt, but falls short. It fails to address the question: why does God allow the INNOCENT to suffer? Why does God allow children to be brutalized and killed?
How long do you think I should have made it? If I attempted to answer the question on all suffering it would inevitably fall way short and still be pages and pages longer than anyone would care to read.
The question I answered was , "Why do Christians Suffer." Why would I then attempt to add another subject and get off the track I was on by answering the question you thought I should? If you wish to write an message on why do the innocent suffer then, by all means write one.
I realize that most readers her on FR have limited time and attention span for long drawn out articles, so I basically narrowed my answer down to Christians and why God allows us to suffer.
22
posted on
11/08/2009 8:56:18 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: huldah1776
I look at life here as boot camp for heaven.That implies that Heaven is a ordeal that requires tough preparation.
I think life is more like an aptitutde test for Heaven
23
posted on
11/08/2009 9:04:58 AM PST
by
LoveUSA
(When you find yourself hopelessly naked in front of the world, you might as well dance.)
To: OneVike
After the incident this past week at Fort Hood, many will undoubtedly ask again, why does God allow suffering, well I did not answer it as a whole for all people. However I do offer my opinion why Christians must suffer, and I am sure that there are Christian suffering right now because of loved ones and relatives who are suffering from the heinous act of terrorism at Fort Hood this past week. And I am sure that their are some Christian soldiers, who are now recovering in the same hospital as their attacker is. I pray this goes a little ways to alleviate the pain, suffering, heartache, and angst that is felt by many. Why is it every time there is some 'act' of violence, everybody wants God to be held to account? He gave US gray matter and it is NOT His fault if the majority of His children will not used the very brain cells HE gave them to use.
How about we point that accusing finger right where it belongs to those who allowed this man access to our military family, when he already made it known he wanted OUT.
To: Just mythoughts
Why is it every time there is some 'act' of violence, everybody wants God to be held to account?
Please show me where I once blamed God for what happened? You are the second individual that claims I am blaming God for pain and suffering in the world.
What I said was God allows it to continue because it works in His ultimate plan of salvation. And I am specifically talking about Christians. Ultimately, man is responsible for pain, suffering, and heartache in the world, I just gave my opinion on why He allows it to continue for Christians.
Does anyone ever read anything anymore? Or does everyone pick and chose a sentence and take it out of context just so they can make a point?
25
posted on
11/08/2009 9:19:35 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: maro
“Does that mean that Heaven will be even tougher?”
Nay, when you have the burden of sin/guilt/fear completely lifted and your eyes wiped dry by God himself and gaze upon all the beauty and treasures of heaven which will require an eternity to explore, then you will know eternal happiness that you have never felt in your best moments here on earth.
26
posted on
11/08/2009 9:19:35 AM PST
by
BipolarBob
(Thailand?)
To: Vendome
Of course, if one wants to wallow in pity for all the suffering then you just become a caricature.Yeah, but Job was stuck. He couldn't do much of anything until he physically felt better. Him praying for his friends seemed to be what triggered his bodily and financial restoration. But really, for the longest time, isn't it true to say that he pretty much wallowed in his own suffering? I mean, sure, he was asking a lot of questions and praying, but he was still stuck for a long time.
To: OneVike
If we have the right to chose between right and wrong, there is a 50% chance that we will chose to do the wrong thing and thus suffer the consequences of our sin.
But this does not hold true for liberals and their elitist political representatives...1) they do not know right from wrong OR claim that the difference is a matter of opinion or a “gray area”, 2) they chose the wrong thing nearly 100% of the time, and 3) there is rarely, if ever, any consequences to those choices.
[[God is a god of order and principles.]]
That’s true, but I think morei mportantly, concerning death and suffering, is that God is the God of Justice- Justice demands righteousness- Righteousness demands a perfectly righteous sacrifice for all those who are not perfectly righteous (the bible tells us that noone is righteous- even hte ‘innocent’ who suffer)
Before man was created, God knew that in order for free will to exist, there MUST be the choice between good and evil, and because God loved us so wholly, He He allowed free wil ldespite the fact that free will would mean suffering and evil had to coexist. His pure justice meant that He had to judge evil and immorlaity and sin, BUT, He did in His wisdom and love, provide a way to avoid His judgement by accepting His Son’s perfect sacrifice to absolve of us of our sins once for all.
Since free will can not exist without evil present, it is necessary for evil to exist in order for man to show where his devotions lie- whether with God DESPITE the fact that sufferign takes place, or with the world, using sufferign as an excuse to reject God. Those who come to understand that God is NOT a vending machine, or a magic lamp that grants wishes and protection simpyl because we choose to follow Him, show that they love God inspite of circumstances- those hwo falter when trouble coems, reject God, are those who are only interested in a God that gives htem their heart’s desires-
Sufferign seperates the pretenders from the true followers, and actually, this seperation is reflected in marriage vows- for better or for worse’- the vow isn’t ‘I’ll love you ONLY IF you do such and such and such and such’ but rather ‘I’ll love you WHATEVER coems along’- of course a lot of people break their marriage vows, because they weren’t really serious in the first place, showign that they didn’t truly love hte person they were marrying, and proving they were only ‘fair-weather’ lovers.
Suffering sucks for sure, but htose that can love God DESPITE the circumstances, find a much much deeper love/relationship with hteir creator than would those who were basically forced into the relationship without having a choice- suffering brings out our TRUE devotions- and we’ll be hte much stronger for it IF we stay the course, rather than give up and accuse God of ‘being unfair’ for allowing us to suffer the consequences of our OWN choices when we brought sin upon us by eating the apple
We’re fickle human beings, always trying to pass the buck- to blame others for what we bring on ourselves- WE brought sin and sufferign into this world because WE decided we diodn’t want to obey God’s command, and because WE decided WE knew better than He what was good for us, but WE want to blame Him for what WE caused instead of takign hte blame as we should rightfully do.
Sufferign is a tricky subject- and peopel rightfully quesiton why God allows it- but when we examine ourselves, we discover whether or not we serve God because ofg what we think He ‘owes’ us, or because we love Him DESPITE our circumstances- and when we understand that His perfect righteousness and perfect judicial nature demand s justice, we see that WE simpyl reap what we sow- just as we would in society IF we were to break the rules here on earth-
29
posted on
11/08/2009 9:28:10 AM PST
by
CottShop
(Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
To: OneVike
Why?? To test and increase our faith. The more we rely on Him, the less we suffer.
Many place their faith in man’s ideas and ways rather than God.
To deny self...intellect, power and abilities...is a very hard thing for some.
30
posted on
11/08/2009 9:28:33 AM PST
by
jackv
To: library user
“Him praying for his friends seemed to be what triggered his bodily and financial restoration. “
Thus the paradox. Some of the things God requires seems counter-intuitive because of our ingrained worldly value system. If we are suffering from persecution, we are to pray for our enemies. I suppose to give them a chance to repent but at the same time it is pretty difficult to ignore our own predicament and follow Jobs actions and ask why. Only through the Holy Spirit will we be able to overcome.
31
posted on
11/08/2009 9:28:34 AM PST
by
BipolarBob
(Thailand?)
To: library user
But really, for the longest time, isn't it true to say that he pretty much wallowed in his own suffering?
Job was stuck on his self righteousness, and it wasn't until he realized that he was nothing that God lifted his plight. However, Job thought that his own self righteousness was enough, but only the righteousness of God will save not our own. Job finally admits it and like I said God than lifts the plight off of him.
Many Christians are where job was. They think that they are so righteous that they are better then lower Christians who seem to always struggle. Thus we have division of status in churches even. The Pharisees suffered from this and Jesus pointed it out. Self righteousness is a big downfall for may who think they are better than they truly are. That is why we are told that the best of our works are but dirty rags.
Not by works, but by faith shall we be saved and when all Christians ultimately learn that, then they will be truly set free the bondage of self righteousness as Job suffered from.
32
posted on
11/08/2009 9:29:51 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: ex-snook
“We have free will but the wonder is why did God give us free will?”
It was passed down to us at the fall by Adam and Eve when they ate from the tree of knowledge between good and evil.
33
posted on
11/08/2009 9:33:28 AM PST
by
jackv
To: library user
[[But really, for the longest time, isn’t it true to say that he pretty much wallowed in his own suffering?]]
Yes, He was human- just like us- he kinda 1/2 knew that God has a right to allow what He wants whenever He wants for His own purposes, and 1/2 didn’t understand, because cokmmon htought back then was that ‘whatever a man sows, so shall he reap’, and He’d only sowed good sead for a very long time, and didn’t udnerstand why God still alllowed the sufferign on him. His mind was in conflict- which is an entirely human response- but as you said, it wasn’t until he began praying for others- gettign his mind off hismelf exclusively, that God restored him- but we need to be careful here- God doesn’t promise to restore anyone regardless of our actions for others, or hte ‘good that we do’ for others- He may choose to restore, but hten again, for His purposes, may not too.
34
posted on
11/08/2009 9:34:33 AM PST
by
CottShop
(Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
To: BipolarBob
Him praying for his friends seemed to be what triggered his bodily and financial restoration.
Thus the paradox. Some of the things God requires seems counter-intuitive because of our ingrained worldly value system.
Again I must reiterate that Job was suffering from self righteousness, he was not healed because he prayed for the others. He prayed for the others after God showed him his fault, so Job was a dutiful man and prayed for the other three.
Job was healed by the grace of God because God wanted to heal him. There is nothing we can do, and that is what Job learned through his trials. All his good works and deeds and prayers were no better than a woman's menstruation rag, as the Scriptures point out.
35
posted on
11/08/2009 9:36:55 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: library user
36
posted on
11/08/2009 9:39:39 AM PST
by
Vendome
(Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
To: Common Sense 101
But this does not hold true for liberals and their elitist political representatives
Actually, they can chose to do right and thus is the reason we see non Christians treating people better than some Christians, but the difference is on judgment day who do you call Lord?
But I do agree that as a Christian we have a better chance of being right more than 50% of the time when we listen to Christ, but many Christians do not, thus they too have troubles brought upon by their own bad choices.
37
posted on
11/08/2009 9:41:05 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: OneVike
[[Job was healed by the grace of God because God wanted to heal him. There is nothing we can do, and that is what Job learned through his trials. ]]
Bingo! and again, it;’s important ot realize God may or may not heal us, and that His decision is not based on what we do, but on His Soverieng right as God alone to deal with His creation as He sees fit. In the end, Job didn’t know God was goign to restore Him, so that wasn’t Job’s motivation for repentance- Job repented because He loved God, and because it was the right ting to do regardless of the circumstances he faced
I write this as someoen who suffers and unfortunately wallows in ‘why me’ most of hte time- I do try not to- but find myself crying out ‘why God?” al lthe time- then I resign myself to hte fact that nothign is goign to change, and ‘just accept it’- (but I never truly do accept it- I just ‘give up whining for a time I guess), and I write this to remind me that I’m WAY off trtack in my htinking- Thanks for your insight and responses to put the perspective back where it belongs- I lose track of thigns because I get consumed by the personal experience of suffering, and everythign becoems about me, and I lose the love for fellow man because all I can focuss on is the pain and cry out’ ‘Why God?”
38
posted on
11/08/2009 9:46:04 AM PST
by
CottShop
(Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
To: Nachum
"Why does God allow/permit the righteous to suffer and the wicked to prosper. Once there was a man who was truly righteous and we esteemed him not.
39
posted on
11/08/2009 9:59:44 AM PST
by
Gamecock
(A tulip, the most beautiful flower in God's garden.)
To: OneVike
40
posted on
11/08/2009 10:04:23 AM PST
by
mjp
(pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, independence, limited government, capitalism})
To: CottShop
Thanks for your insight and responses to put the perspective back where it belongs
I have been married to a woman who was put in a wheel chair from a car accident we were in a month after we started dating back in 1987(we were passengers in the back seat).
I have seen her struggle and suffer for more than she deserves. Well my perspective is that anyway, but reality is we all deserve what we get, and when we are not getting our just due, we are blessed. You are correct, God did not have to heal Job, or else he would have healed the elephant man. There was a man who loved God, but his ultimate healing came upon his death, like all of our suffering will.
We look at this world as if it is something great to hold onto because it is the only thing we know. Eyes have not seen, and ears have not heard of what the Lord has in store for us when this life is over. I think of a child, and how they cannot fathom adulthood, so they want everything now. They cannot even imagine waiting two weeks for a birthday or Christmas.
Well, we are God's children, and we too cannot imagine waiting 80 years to get to Christmas. We tell little Johnny that just because Paul's Mommy and Daddy let him have an i-pod does not mean he deserves one. We think that our worth is in this world, but we cannot bring it with, we leave all for our children and they to theirs. One for one, and dust to dust, In Gods due time, and at His pleasure we shall have what he wants us to have and when he wants us to have it.
If that means we must suffer a lifetime debilitating disease until we dies unknown and unloved by this world, well then so be it. That too is more than we deserve. When man realize that, then they will truly see the joy that Christ offers and the burden of worry will be lifted and we will be taken care of like the wildflowers of the field and the birds of the air.
41
posted on
11/08/2009 10:06:33 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: OneVike
“All decisions in your life have a 50% chance of being right and being wrong, the difference is made by whom you put your faith in.”
But that is not what the sentence said. It would be foolish to say that the results are always 50/50. It denies the effect of “properly motivated” free will, which I think you realize as well. If the statistical odds of selecting the correct path were even odds, there would be no point in exercising free will in the first place. You would be an undirected/non-selective automaton.
I think you would agree that free will is a bit more than a coin flip. The point of enlightened free will is that it allows us to make the proper choices. I’d like to think that my batting average is a bit better than what the author was implying re. the use of free will.
42
posted on
11/08/2009 10:30:59 AM PST
by
Habibi
To: OneVike
“Today I take in the question of, “Why does God allow Christians to suffer?””
God is a guy. Once he has you he loses interest and I think the key to having salvation and a happy life is hiding a bit of yourself from God and making Him chase you a little.
43
posted on
11/08/2009 10:31:59 AM PST
by
Niuhuru
(The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
To: OneVike
Sorry I was NOT pointing to you personally, but the mere fact the question ever gets asked.
To: OneVike
You have a beautiful way with words and your heart is obviously filled with God’s love. Thanks for posting this, OneVike.
45
posted on
11/08/2009 10:37:53 AM PST
by
Gemsbok
(Dead men tell no tales!)
To: Salvation
“Why did God permit his Son to die?”
Hmmm. Are you implying that Christ is dead? Mere coporeal death is nothing to a supernatural Christian. I mean, people die all the time. It is obviously inevitable. The question (or answer if you will), is what happens after physical death.
To a Christian, physical death ain’t no big thing. Why should it be any different for one of God’s aspects (Jesus)? Being a supernatural being by nature, physical death would have no effect. It’s just a change in packaging.
One should never be terribly bound to our current container. After all, we’re just passin’ through. I’m not terribly concerned that my earthly vessel is temporally limited. Why would Christ/God view physical existence to be any different? After all, God’s already been doin’ the supernatural thing for long enough to have a handle on it.
46
posted on
11/08/2009 10:47:25 AM PST
by
Habibi
To: Gemsbok
You have a beautiful way with words and your heart is obviously filled with Gods love
Thank you for your kind and uplifting words. May the Lord bless and keep you and yours.
OV
47
posted on
11/08/2009 10:48:11 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: Just mythoughts
Understood, and no animosity felt.
48
posted on
11/08/2009 10:48:21 AM PST
by
OneVike
(Just a Christian waiting to go home)
To: maro
Isn’t boot camp BASIC TRAINING - molding you, preparing you for your true job? What is heaven? vacation? no thanks.
To: OneVike
It wasn’t supposed to be this way.
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