Posted on 11/22/2009 2:05:41 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
The outcome of the health care reform legislation in the House demonstrates that while the Republicans don't have the votes to stop it, the Catholic Church has the votes to pass it.
Could the same thing happen in the Senate?
On Nov. 7, Catholic lobbyists working for the church's bishops finalized a deal with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. An anti-abortion amendment by Rep. Bart Stupak, a Catholic Democrat, was offered and passed. The bishops then came down officially in favor of a bureaucratic plan that could spell the end to freedom of choice in health care.
The turn of events once again demonstrates the left-wing drift of the Catholic Church. But the bishops' role in passing socialized medicine is not the only evidence of such a turn. They poured more than $7.3 million of parishioners' money through the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD) into the corrupt left-wing organization ACORN before negative publicity forced suspension of the funding.
Government-guaranteed "rights," in the view of the Catholic bishops, don't stop with health care. The papal "Peace on Earth" encyclical says that man has a "right" to "food, clothing, shelter, medical care, rest and, finally, the necessary social services."
This is a blueprint for a socialist state.
Beyond religion, there is a practical reality. The Catholic Church operates 600 Catholic hospitals. A national health care plan is a means by which some of the costs could be dumped on taxpayers.(continued)
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
I heard a lot of Liberation Marxist Theology came out of the Catholic Church in Central and South Americ.
I don’t know about other parishes but today in our bulletin we received email addresses and telephone numbers to call in DC to voice our displeasure on the bill as it is written right now.
When we had a protest in Jackson Michigan there was a Hispanic priest there who seemed to be leading the SEIU chants.
Excerpt:
Government-guaranteed “rights,” in the view of the Catholic bishops, don’t stop with health care. The papal “Peace on Earth” encyclical says that man has a “right” to “food, clothing, shelter, medical care, rest and, finally, the necessary social services.”
This is a blueprint for a socialist state.
Beyond religion, there is a practical reality. The Catholic Church operates 600 Catholic hospitals. A national health care plan is a means by which some of the costs could be dumped on taxpayers.
...
This mentality has been promoted for years within the Catholic church.
You heard right.
The Marxist theology preached in some of those South American Catholic Churches have started many wars and killed many people .
Those churches have replaced Christ with social justice.
And the catholic church has refused to remove the priest that do that . In some of those churches they have replaced Christ on the cross with guerrilla fighters.
Notice there is no such thing as a truly free Catholic country ... they all start experimenting with socialism and way to many have ended up in the slavery of communism. (it’s a short leap from one to the next)
To many churches in this country are flirting with the same spirit of deception. (not just Catholic)
This country was not found on this spirit , this country can not be free under the bounds of this spirit .
Our only hope is
2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
"What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight." - Luke 16:15
I love that passage. Perfect. Thanks.
Socialist invade all religious organizations:
1. Relgious people, by and large, want to “do good,” and that is standard socialist cover story.
2. It’s easy to “fake it” in a large religion (and schools and “consultants”). I mean, you can’t very well measure how many “souls are saved” like you can in manufacture/most service.
3. Being “godly” organizations, liberals target them for destruction.
Excerpt:
Another factor is the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), which recently announced a major agreement with the Catholic bishops to make it easier for workers in Catholic hospitals to join unions. These employees would normally be entitled to employer-paid health insurance. But under the national health care bill, they could be transferred to a government plan offered under a health insurance “exchange.”
Since it was reported in the press that Pelosi, a Catholic Democrat, sought approval from the Vatican before the critical House vote, it is important to note that L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, published a shocking article by Professor Georg Sans that praised the Marxist theory of alienation under capitalism.
The article said that the church “must be grateful” to Marx for explaining the concept of “alienated labor” and “surplus value.”
So-called “surplus value,” which is said to amount to exploitation of workers under capitalism, justifies the confiscation of private property for the “common good” and its ultimate abolition.
...
The CAtholic church has NEVER favored capitalism. Pbama seized on this on his visit over there. The Catholic church favors socialism and would also like to level the playing field for others - but not touch the church coffers.
Thomas Sowell points out in his book “Marxism,” the analysis ignores the value produced by the capitalists who exercised private property rights in creating the means of production and employing the workers in the first place.
Hence, the Marxist concept of surplus value, Sowell argues, is “plainly arbitrary and unsupported.”
Conservative Catholics are fighting the socialist tendencies in their church. In Battle Creek, Mich., for example, they have been exposing a group called JONAH, standing for Joint Religious Organizing Network for Action and Hope. An affiliate of the Gamaliel Foundation, which originally sponsored the work of “community organizer” Barack Obama in Chicago, it works to increase government involvement in the economy to benefit selected minority groups.
Like ACORN, the Gamaliel Foundation has been funded by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development. Unlike ACORN, CCHD money continues to flow to Gamaliel. The bishops call this “social justice.”
Yes, yes, “social justice” has been a common chant for years by Catholics. It's economic redistribution and “leveling the playing field”. Nothing new about this for the Catholic Church.
JIHAD!
sarc/
Haven’t been to church here yet (6 PM) but I understand that Green Bay Diocese put out a bulletin insert that was scathing toward this “healthcare” plan. I believe it also included phone numbers.
Excerpt:
...
Soros money has also gone into the Catholic Legal Immigration Network, an organization established by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops back in 1988. It has received at least $530,000 from the Open Society Institute.
The two issues merge in the fact that the Catholic bishops are demanding that national health care legislation cover illegal aliens. Their Nov. 6 letter to Congress said they “support access for immigrants to the health-insurance exchange, regardless of legal status.”
A popular and telegenic priest, Jonathan Morris, who is a Fox News analyst, told Sean Hannity that the Catholic bishops support “a universal right to have access to basic health care” but not “socialized medicine.”
Yes, the Pope is upset over our laws towards ILLEGAL immigrants. I still make the same offer to him. YOU, take them to dwell with you in Vatican City. Take em all - criminals, pedophiles - you name it. We don’t want them here and want our laws to protect ourselves from them.
The ONLY “universal right” anyone has is to accept or reject Christ and while on this earth support yourself as best you can. Other “rights” to medical care - you must PAY FOR.
Ping to me.
I’ve seen “religious people” get off in enslaving them to their CHARITY as well. They don’t realize that we are to LIFT SOMEONE UP, not ENSLAVE them to us. When people are far enough along to make it in life, then let them!
This was originally reported in the L.A. Times (Nov, 8) but later retracted. This is from their retraction:
"FOR THE RECORD: An article in Sunday's Section A ... said the measure [health reform bill] had won support from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which urged Catholics to "lend their full-throated support" to the legislation. That statement and a statement that followed should have been attributed to the group Catholics United. "
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-health-abortion8-2009nov08,0,7024043.story
Who's who?
The USCCB: represents almost 300 bishops from 170 Dioceses in the USA comprising over 60 million Catholics
"Catholics United": It's a left-wing group organized by Obama activists and representing, officially, nobody.
The USCCB has not endorsed either the House or the Senate Health Reform Bill; in fact, not one Catholic bishop has endorsed either of these bills.
The Church refers this duty, not to "the state," but to society at all its myriad levels: the families, charities, profitable enterprises and non-profits, etc. Each operating with its own legitimate liberty and at its own level.
Big difference.
This Liberation Theology was condemned as a false doctrine by Pope John Paul II after then-Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) investigated it. All orthodox Christian leaders also condemned it. It is a Marxist-based revolutionary movement, disguised as "Christian," that uses violence when needed to overthrow governments and populations.
If you're running into opportunists (like "Catholics United", which I referenced above) who are preaching socialism --- and we've all run into them --- their problem is not that they are too Catholic, but that they are not Catholic enough.
Illegal aliens don’t pay for health care now.
They go to the emergency room even to get treatment for a common cold because they can not be turned away.
They already get free health care.
The poorest in this country already get free health care too.
This is only going to kill the working class by increasing their cost. The ones who work and make barely above the wage to qualify for help are going to hurt really bad from this legislation and their meddling.
U.S. Bishops Cut All Funding to ACORN, Activities Funded Hard to Determine
Bishop discusses reasons behind cutoff of ACORN funding
Catholic Church drops ACORN funding
When man has a right to food, does that mean that he has the right to take it from other people? It is a right isn’t it? Isn’t this how a mugger thinks; you have something I don’t have so you have to “share”.
I guess that many of the Catholic ngo community share some of the same traits as their secular cousins. Maybe they need to be needed even if it means enslaving people in the process.
The Catholic church should take “Catholics United” to court for perpertrating a fraud since there is no official connection to the church.
Me too.
It's like "Quaker Oats." It's passed into the public realm.
I do agree that the bishops should be more aggressive in exposing and denouncing the illegtimi. Bishop Bruskewitz excommunicated a bunch of groups way back in 1995, but alas, that's just a happy memory.
Our Diocese of Harrisburg (PA) cut off any contributions to the “Catholic Campaign for Human Development”
Today’s collection for them was given to St. Vincent DePaul for the poor.
Two, I've also read that is was the Bishop's lobbyists, who made this deal and that the Bishops aren't happy about it. They're meeting this week and this will be on the agenda. Let's see how this plays out in a week.
Didn't you run a caucus thread with the very liberal responses in it from the staff of the USCCB?
I realize you are trying to fight the entrenched liberals in the USCCB, as many RC's are, but it does illustrate the point that your hierarchy is infected with a large number of them.
The Church was the last at the table, just like I suspected.
They knew they had to deal with this Chicago Gangster, just like all the other factions did.
Stupak gets watered enough for a win/win pro/against abortion in the Senate, Bishops keep hospital open, everyone will hate itr, but they will go along with it.
The "Social Justice" wing of the Church gets their Socialized Medicine.
The Senate does a cram down again this time with S-9 immigration, 70 million new (not 12, we know this from the debate, when the relatives come) Democratic voters and people to fill the Parishes.
Win-Win-Win for the Church, Win for the Democratic Party with a permanent majority, and Liberty takes it,... well this is a family program...
What gets me is the Republicrats are playing checkers when the Dem's are playing Chess...
Emanuel/Schumer engineered this IMHO with the 06' sweep. I saw a map of districts by faith, and many they took were highly Catholic. They needed to split them or apease them enough to just get this through, they played the factions within and us like a fiddle, they used Stupak to keep it alive, when if the Republicans said no, the whole thing would have died.
Because of it, my kids are surfs, the fix is in, and their isn't a darn thing I can do about it. The only solution at this point is to move to Australia Baby...
These people have no idea of the consequences of their action or they are just plain evil.
The bill requires parents to insure their children until age 27 (or close to that) . How many young people are going to be getting married knowing that right away they will have to purchase insurance at about 15,000 a year ? What do you think is going to happen when they don’t get married ? I doubt they will be abstaining . This is going to increase young couples living together to keep their parents insurance ... which will increase the number of either abortions or single parent families.
By backing an unjust law that steals from one to give to another they are creating a mess.
Covetousness and idolatry have consequences .
They are taking over student loans.
At 27 on the parents dole, chances are you are working on a difficult BA in Engineering, (yes for some it is taking 6 yrs) or on for a Masters.
It is in away an invitation for sloth and being on the dole, fot those that are taking basket weaving.
This is a C-Piven strategy to cradle to grave them with a nanny state. If mom and dad object and become conciencous objectors to Obamacare, how now do they get into school and who inforces this? The IRS which will make mom and dad's life a living hell.
They sold us down the river.....
I object to Kincaid --- especially right now, at a crisis point --- giving false info about the USCCB officially endorsing the Pelosi-Reid approach to health care. This is an untruth which can only drive the faithful to despair, and give aid and comfort to the enemy.
My diocese seems conflicted. Our bishop (Bishop Stika of Knoxville) visited the parish (Johnson City) and was principal celebrant of all the weekend Masses. The CCHD envelopes were out there stacked up at the ends of the pews, but not actually passed out; there was no announcement of it from the pulpit, and the collection was never taken.
I was surprised and happy.
I’m interested in that book. Can you remember the title or the authors?
I looked for it, can’t find it. Title included something like ‘economists respond to the Bishops’. I’ll look more later.
I really wish you well in your battle.
As an outsider looking in, I see a lot of discussion about abortion but none about the evil of the state taking control of all health care. It seems like a political calculation is being made to support govt HC as long as abortion is not included.
Your hierarchy may be figuring it accomplishes it's "social justice" agenda, which is really a redistributive program of taking from producers to give to non producers. They may also be calculating how govt HC may benefit RC hospitals. The problem is they haven't looked at history just like the insurance companies didn't. In the end the govt will control all of HC and don't count on govt being a benevolent dictator.
The american branch of the Roman Catholic Church sadly has been infiltrated by leftist activists, are they the majority? No, but they are active and vocal. I blame this primarily on the absolutely misguided decision that admitted homosexuals be allowed in the clergy.
Some diocese are so overrun by them that they literally control everything, exchange sexual favors for power, and anyone who dares challenge or question them is put in a remote dead end position. They have completely taken over some diocese, to the point where the entire leadership of the diocese are nothing but these folks.
This has been a contributing factor to the cover up molestation, as well the generally leftist movements by some groups within the US church.
There is a certain socialist bent to nearly all charitable organization, after all care for all generally winds up being a matter of a path of greatest accomplishment in least effort, and if that is your goal, government is the fastest route, if not the proper one for it.
There is certainly no excuse in the US that people should not have healt insurance available to them, but the solution is not government execution of the system, but refomration actions on the existing system.
Back in the early 60's, spurred by "new findings in the field of psychology," there was a move to admit known homosexuals into the priesthood, on condition that they should be chaste in their behavior(just as all priests are supposed to be chaste).
In 1962, Pope John XXIII made a ruling of "No." They were not to be admitted --- for several theological and common-sense reasons, among them that it would place those who have homosexual tendencies themselves in spiritual peril, having to be in the close presence of attractive young men for years on end in seminary, etc.
Good Pope John's ruling was just quietly shoved aside and ignored in many "compassionate and forward-thinking" seminary rectors who "knew better" than he did.
The rest is history--- no, the rest is tragedy.
Since the Communist Dorothy Day captured a portion of the Church in New York for her anti-war movement, the Catholic Church has had a segment that embraces America’s enemies. The Maryknolls come to mind.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.