Here here! And bring back those anti-miscegenation laws too!
Those were the days.
Posted on 11/24/2009 9:02:14 AM PST by Patrick Madrid
I know, this is hardly revolutionary or unique advice, but I was recently asked about this issue by a young Catholic man who called my "Open Line" radio show (heard every Thursday at 3:00 p.m. ET). He had been dating a devoutly Presbyterian girl, and her father didn't like it one bit that the guy was Catholic.
I think my response to his "what do I do now?" question may have surprise him. (It apparently surprised and even dismayed a few of my listeners, judging from some of the e-mails that came in after that show.)
My basic premise, which I advert to in this audio segment is that . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at patrickmadrid.blogspot.com ...
Would i be better if he dated Polosi’s daughter?
Pelosi is Catholic.
Or maybe a Kennedy daughter?
As for us, we only allow Bible based Christians as datable material.
Does your Bible based Christians list include Catholics, non-Catholics, or both? Just curious.
Wise not to be “unevenly yoked.”
Date? Date?! Any young man who has intentions on courting my daughters (when they are of age) better learn how to court. And yes, they must be committed Catholics, for starters.
By “Catholic,” at least in this context, I mean a “practicing Catholic,” not a pick-&-choose, dissenting, Catholic in Name Only kind of “Catholic.” Nancy Pelosi and her daughter would fit the latter description, it seems to me.
I disagree. I’m Catholic, as was my first wife. She was an adulterer and a lousy parent. My present wife is Baptist and is the best thing that ever happened to me.
Just my two cents.
That is actually really good advice, and I am a Protestant. I have told my girls as they grew up, don’t date outside your religion unless you are willing to adopt his beliefs.
My Bible makes no reference to Catholics.
What my Bible does say, and I wouldn’t be suprised if your Bible said the same is
John.1:14
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Also,
2Tim.3:16
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
So it goes to follow, that Bible based CHristians are the dating material for this household.
Your household doesn’t have to follow ours.
Like any other issue in life, it is a CHOICE! You see, He doesn't care what denomination you are. What He cares about is OBEDIENCE to HIS WORD as best you can be.
Agreed! One of mine married an agnostic who we love dearly and is very slowly coming to the faith. The example we set is absolutely imperative. We live as Christians and that is the most important evangelical tool. Practice what you preach.
The others won’t date those who do not share their faith.
Every day our prayer is for strong Catholic DILs!
I hear you, and I agree with you. I am using “date” here in the sense of courtship. If you read Steve Wood’s excellent book, “The ABCs of Choosing a Good Husband,” you’ll understand where I’m coming from.
“Date” is the colloquial term most people use, but “courtship” is what my wife and I allow for our children. Now, with our three oldest all happily married with children of their own, and two more children who appear to be likely to marry soon (to solidly, practicing Catholics), I can say with confidence that the time-honored Catholic policy of courtship (as opposed to what commonly is meant by “dating”) is wise and effective.
Amen there nmh. Denominations only Really matter when you get down to brass tacks - Do the persons follow the Bible and Jesus?
All else follows from that.
I often defend Catholics here from being picked on but some of ya’ll bring it on yourself bigtime.
I had never ever seen Catholic prejudice towards non Catholics till I came here at 42 ten years ago.
I don’t really care if folks are prejudiced, sometimes it’s warranted but if you do then you can’t complain if it comes back at ya.
Not hard to see how Ulster has festered for so long with this sorta get alongness.
Well, I for one really wish that those days would come back. Experience shows that mixed marriages are not wise. The last 50 years of divorce, religiously-based strife between spouses, and a few new generations of theologically confused, indifferentist Catholics are among the negative consequences when “love trumps all,” especially when it trumps common sense.
God doesn’t care what the label on the outside says, He is more concerned with the contents of the package.
“I don’t really care if folks are prejudiced,...”
That’s a pretty broad description of Catholics desiring their children to maintain and marry with and raise their children in the faith they believe is the Truth.
In employment, housing, education, or any public venue, Catholics certainly haven’t discriminated.
The Ulster situation is entirely different having been an occupied territory for hundreds of years with Protestant discrimination in every single area of housing, employment, education and other public venues.
Some mixed marriages do work out well, but it requires a great deal of respect. Nell Wilson Reagan was very active in Disciples of Christ, Jack Reagan was Catholic. Their first son, Neil Reagan, was raised Catholic and remained one all his life. Their second son, Ronald Reagan, was raised Protestant by his mother but was always respectful of Catholicism.
Despite my earlier upbringing, it became obvious to me a long time ago that believing Catholics are Christians, sometimes beautifully so.
Same with believing “evangelicals”. I think a lot of people are figuring this out about one another.
“By their fruit you know them” as it says. Look for someone who loves God, for real, and you’ve likely found someone who can love you too right to the end.
And the kids? Raise your kids to love God, for real.
I agree. Especially male Romanists.
In general, I would agree. I just discovered that there are a group of Methodists who attend my Catholic Bible study class. Sr. Brig teaches strictly Catholic teaching, but at times mentions them and their beliefs. I suspect that there are believers out there that have many of the same basic beliefs as we do, as well as many Catholics who do not. So, I agree, with room for exceptions.
I was baptized as a Catholic, but raised with no faith. My husband didn’t insist, but wanted me to follow through...I call it my conversion. Today, I am a more devout Catholic than he ever will be. Perhaps when he retires he will come around a bit. He is scared to death of a REAL, live relationship with his Saviour. He is really missing out. Too many Catholics are CINOs.
I find I have a great relationship with anyone who has a daily, living relationship with Jesus. Doesn’t much matter the faith.
Are you the real deal? I am sure I have read one of your books at one time or another.
I was a Methodist growing up, and my mom did not approve of my brother’s girlfriend who was Catholic. They even tried to send my brother to Europe to get over her.
Well, my brother married that girl, and I am so glad he did.
Shortly after they were married, he was diagnosed with skin cancer. For over 25 years, they battled skin cancer together. He eventually, lost his ear, his site, and then finally died after their 25th anniversary.
Throughout those years, she was the main bread giver. They also had 2 wonderful children. He was able to be a scout master and was the coach on many of my nephews little league teams.
Now, my sister-in-law lives near my parents (my other brother and I do not), and she is always helping them out.
Even my mom knows she made a terrible mistake by trying to break my brother up with his wife.
There are 68.1 million Catholics in the US, so you may want to increase your sample size a bit. Probably more than 3 would be good.
bread winner, not giver
Well, that's what my parents got—instead of the Jewish girl that I thought was 'the one'. They were happy, her parents were happy...she and I can't stand each other. Been a long 20 years. Going to be another long 10 before we can call it quits.
Then he decided he did not like the lifestyle of having a wife and five children so he left town and filed for divorce. It had nothing to do with religious beliefs. My mother went to the priest for help in dealing with the emotions and issues, and from that moment on, she and we five children were essentially shunned by the church due to the (impending) divorce.
What do you suppose that experience did to reinforce our beliefs and loyalty to the Catholic church?
I married a non-Catholic and after our 2nd child was born, he converted to Catholicism.
On the other hand, my daughter married a non-Catholic and then moved 900 miles away. She had been a faithful Mass-goer until about 3 years into her marriage, and then she stopped going. His family who were Baptists began talking to her, and that’s when she stopped going. But she did have her two children Baptized in the Catholic Church and they are both making their First Communion. There is hope for her yet.
Here here! And bring back those anti-miscegenation laws too!
Those were the days.
(Psst, your absurdity is showing.)
We have a few criteria that we encourage our sons to adopt when they start to think concretely about marriage (they’re 15 and 12 at this point, and thus, we hope that their happy days are still a little way off into the future). The young lady should be:
- a devout, practicing Catholic who accepts all the binding teachings of the Church;
- the daughter of an intact home;
- desirous of a large family, but accepting of what God gives;
- preferably homeschooled;
- desirous of at least seriously considering homeschooling for their children;
- possessed of a pleasant personality;
- a practitioner of good habits, small virtues and proper etiquette;
- and rich as heck.
Just kidding on the last one.
Mostly kidding.
;-)
I was the same, but it didn’t work out. Wonderful gal, but not made for each other. I’m happy tho with the Catholic church! I’m so thankful for it! :)
Not bad advice (and I am a Lutheran who married a Catholic).
Trouble is that Catholic is more of an ethnic identity than a religion for many. My wife’s cousin is married to my best friend, and “a good Catholic”. She goes to church a few times a year, and can’t even define the Trinity on a work a day level. Much less the Incarnation.
Just saying perhaps the definition should be narrowed some what.
I think that Patrick already narrowed the definition considerably:
“My advice to Catholic parents is, teach your children well the importance of finding a devoutly Catholic spouse.”
Someone who can't even manage to make it to Mass weekly doesn't even begin to approach the most minimal standard of “devout Catholic.” Someone who can offer little or nothing when asked to describe or define the Trinity or the Incarnation is a Catholic who never paid attention, not exactly a "devout Catholic.”
I think that once truly devout Catholic parents (and children!) hear the advice offered by Patrick, they'll understand quickly what's being said.
sitetest
Ulster is what Ulster is because the British government always butts in on the side of the Protestant loyalists. Catholic vs Protestant divisions in Ireland are reflections of secular divisions- British loyalist vs Irish nationalist. At their root they have always been such.
Ulster is non-sequitur to this discussion.
As for the prospective spouse coming from an intact home, that is what the priest teaching our pre-Cana class said, run from the girl from the broken home. Well, that was me, the child of an ugly and dramatic divorce. And the priest’s remarks hurt.
27 years later, Mr. Heartwood and I are blessed with four children and a solid happy marriage that has survived griefs and trials with never a serious disagreement. Sometimes someone who comes from a wrecked marriage is absolutely determined to get it right in her own life, for the sake of her own children; for the same reason I will never commit suicide as I’ve seen the hell it leaves behind.
And as NEMDF testifies, the lack of charity to victims of divorce can drive them from the Church. Luckily for me I knew the Church was something bigger than what that priest represented, because I wasn’t Catholic at the time, either.
Better to pray for unity for all Christians.
I’m glad that it worked out for you. That’s really wonderful.
“And as NEMDF testifies, the lack of charity to victims of divorce can drive them from the Church.”
It isn’t lack of charity that guides me, but rather a recognition that children of divorce are at much higher risk for many problems, not just divorce in their own marriages.
Nonetheless, children of divorce are more likely to experience broken marriages than others. That’s how it is. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t children of divorce who don’t have successful marriages, just a matter of increased risk. Significantly increased risk.
Among other things, I’d prefer for my sons to avoid the things that increase the risk of a failed marriage. I’d also prefer if they could avoid the other difficulties that often come with someone whose parents were divorced.
But I completely understand your perspective. My own father’s parents divorced. So imagine if my mother had taken my advice!! LOL!!
Nonetheless, it was quite a gamble, and for my mother, quite a ride. They were married over 53 years when she died, but boy oh boy, if I had a nickel for every time my father threatened to divorce my mother, I’d be retired right now.
I also know a bit about my father’s upbringing and the things he suffered as a result of his parents’ divorce. I know how these things followed him all the days of his life, and still follow him to this day, in his 80s. I know how much difficulty that added to my parents’ marriage, how much stress and strain and tension there was, in part due to the fact that my father’s parents were divorced.
In all sorts of ways, my father has beaten the odds all his life. I admire him, and am glad to be his son.
But, I just don’t like betting against the odds, myself, and would prefer that my sons wouldn't gamble with their prospective marriages, either.
sitetest
My parents didn’t want me dating Catholic boys. Married one and voila! he’s a Prot now.
If there were unity between Christians, then there would be no Christian mixed marriages, and Patrick's warning would be unnecessary. It is the fact that there isn't unity between Christians that requires what he has said.
sitetest
I have to disagree a little, it is best if Catholics date and marry Catholics but there are many Catholics who looked into the the Catholic Church and became Catholics.
Catholic, by name, doesn’t really mean much and if your child has a good grasp on their relationship with Christ through the Catholic Church they will be looking for someone with that same commitment. But marrying Catholic doesn’t automatically mean that they will practice the faith or even remain Christian.
Probably because I know more Catholics, I can name as many Catholic/Catholic marriages that have failed as Catholic/Protestant.
Now if the non-Catholic refused to get married in the Church and promise to raise the children Catholic, I’d have a problem with that.
LOL, I just remembered my DIL was Catholic when she married my son, none of us were. She was just an Easter and Christmas kind of Catholic but Catholic. She was under the impression that she should become whatever religion her husband was and I told her using no uncertain terms that changing religions wasn’t like shopping and she should stick with her Catholicism.
She wanted to baptize her oldest daughter and my son wouldn’t let her baptize her Catholic and then we did the silly thing of shopping around. She was baptized in the Episcopalian church because as I said, they’re not all Catholic and they’re not all Protestant.
Anyway, its a long story but we’re all Catholic now.
That is why we need to pray for unity among the believers of Christ.
As a convert I am eternally grateful that my wife and her parents didn’t heed your advice. As a father I intend to. Odd how life works, no?
God has His Plan, we can but try to follow His will.
The Pope of Christian Unity is working towards that goal as we speak. Pray for him please.
“That is why we need to pray for unity among the believers of Christ.”
As a Catholic, that is certainly my prayer.
And as a Catholic, what that means is that everyone else gives up what is against Catholic faith and comes into communion with the Church, that is, the CATHOLIC Church.
And when that happens, there will be no more mixed marriages, as everyone will be in communion with everyone else, and I won't need to teach my sons to look for good, devout CATHOLIC young women, as every young Christian woman will be, for all intents and purposes, Catholic.
But until that day, I will show my sons the advantage of looking for a devout CATHOLIC young lady to marry.
sitetest
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