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'Hardball' host gives 'insulting lecture' during interview with Bishop Tobin
cna ^ | November 24, 2009

Posted on 11/24/2009 1:34:17 PM PST by NYer

Chris Matthews / Bishop Thomas Tobin

Washington D.C., Nov 24, 2009 / 03:06 pm (CNA).- On Monday Bishop Thomas Tobin tangled with television pundit Chris Matthews on MSNBC’s “Hardball” about the relation between religion and politics as well as the legal status of abortion. Matthews’ comments, which charged that the bishop has overstepped his authority, were criticized as a “rant” and an “extended lecture.”

Bishop Tobin, of the Diocese of Providence has been critical of Rhode Island U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy’s attacks on the Church for opposing abortion. Rep. Kennedy recently revealed that the bishop had asked him to refrain from receiving Holy Communion in 2007 because of his public contradiction of Catholic teaching.

Chris Matthews began the Monday evening “Hardball” segment with a clip of remarks by Rep. Kennedy’s uncle President John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic U.S. president. In his political campaign President Kennedy had said that a politician should not accept “instruction on public policy” from the Pope or any other ecclesiastical source.

In response, Bishop Tobin emphasized that all religious believers, including Catholic politicians, should put their faith before their career.

“Nothing can become more important than your relationship with God,” he told Matthews, who is Catholic.

Bishop Tobin endorsed a return to U.S. law before the pro-abortion Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade. Matthews pressed him on this point, asking what laws he would write if he were a member of Congress.

“I am not a member of Congress, but if I were, I would never be in a position of supporting any abortion legislation that encourages abortion,” the bishop replied.

“What law would you pass?” Matthews pressed. “You’re coming down on Congressman Kennedy and other public officials. …Would you outlaw abortion?”

“That’s the direction our nation ought to move,” the prelate responded.

Asked to tell Catholics how they should vote as members of Congress, he said Catholics should vote for laws that “preserve and protect human life.”

Matthews asked Bishop Tobin to be specific, asking whether women who procure abortions should be thrown in jail.

“I have no idea what the penalty would be,” the bishop replied.

Matthews professed agreement with the bishop’s moral views, but then claimed Bishop Tobin had “transgressed” into the area of lawmaking. He characterized the bishop’s reluctance to name specific penalties for a woman who procures abortion as an expression of “hesitancy” from the clergy.

“Words like ‘murder’ and ‘killing’ are used in the case of abortion but they do not seem to apply in terms of writing the law,” Matthews commented. “And I would urge you to consider the possibility of error here, because in getting into telling public officials how to set public policy, you’re stepping beyond moral teaching, and you’re basically assuming a moral authority which I don’t think is yours.

“As you admitted tonight four or five times, you don’t know how to write law, and writing law is very tricky in our secular society,” Matthews’ comments concluded.

“I will reflect on that if you reflect on the teachings of the Church,” Bishop Tobin responded.

Bill Donohue of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights characterized Matthews as having “spun out of control.”

“Matthews proceeded with an extended and quite insulting lecture,” Donohue charged in a Tuesday press release. “He had absolutely no interest in a discussion on the question of the morality and legality of abortion—all he wanted to do was to make the bishop sit there and listen to his rant. Indeed, his tirade was simply over-the-top.”

Donohue claimed that no non-Catholic would treat a bishop in such a way.

“But too many liberal Catholics, especially Irish Catholics, think they are exempt from the same standards of civility that apply to others.”

Pro-life advocate Jill Stanek wrote on her blog that she thought the Matthews interview should have focused on the question “Are preborns human or not?”

“If they are, then we need laws to protect them, just as we do all other innocent human life. If we're not sure - if the answer is above one's pay grade - then we should err on the side of life,” she wrote.

The question of criminal penalties for women who seek abortions is a common talking point among supporters of permissive abortion laws. The issue was considered in an August, 2007 symposium titled “One Untrue Thing” on the conservative web site National Review Online.

In that symposium, Villanova University law professor Joseph Dellapenna said “none of the anti-abortion laws overturned by Roe v. Wade… treated the woman as a criminal.”

Rather, he explained, the laws treated the woman as a victim in part because of the dangers of abortion and in part because of the need for her testimony to convict the abortionist.

In the same symposium Clarke D. Forsythe of Americans United for Life pointed out that before Roe the abortionist, not the prosecutor, tried to argue that an abortion-seeking woman should be treated as an accomplice. This was done “for the obvious purpose of undermining the state’s criminal case against the abortionist,” he wrote.

According to an announcement from pundit Bill O’Reilly, Bishop Tobin will appear on Fox News’ O’Reilly Factor tonight. The show airs at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time and reruns at 11:00 p.m.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholic; chrissymatthews; fox; hardball; kennedy; prolife; romancatholic; tobin

1 posted on 11/24/2009 1:34:20 PM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...
According to an announcement from pundit Bill O’Reilly, Bishop Tobin will appear on Fox News’ O’Reilly Factor tonight. The show airs at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time and reruns at 11:00 p.m.
2 posted on 11/24/2009 1:35:19 PM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

In response, Bishop Tobin emphasized that all religious believers, including Catholic politicians, should put their faith before their career.

“Nothing can become more important than your relationship with God,” he told Matthews, who is Catholic.


God, Country and Family.

Yes, in that order.


3 posted on 11/24/2009 1:36:38 PM PST by Grunthor (There is no such thing as unconditional love.)
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To: NYer

They should give his guests spit shields to wear... just saying...


4 posted on 11/24/2009 1:36:52 PM PST by steveo (2010 never again)
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To: NYer

“Donohue claimed that no non-Catholic would treat a bishop in such a way.”

He’s right. I’m a non-Catholic and I wouldn’t treat anyone that way, no matter their station in life. It is just rude.


5 posted on 11/24/2009 1:39:06 PM PST by Grunthor (There is no such thing as unconditional love.)
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To: NYer
Matthews commented. “And I would urge you to consider the possibility of error here, because in getting into telling public officials how to set public policy, you’re stepping beyond moral teaching, and you’re basically assuming a moral authority which I don’t think is yours.

Democrats such as Matthews saw nothing wrong with Fr. Robert Frederick Drinan, S.J representing Massachussets in the House of Representatives for a decade did they? Drinan was chairman of the Subcommittee on Criminal justice and the first to introduce an impeachment resolution against Nixon (not for Watergate but for Cambodia). Drinan's pro-abortion stance is credited with turning Democrat leaders (including the Kennedys) into pro-aborts.

6 posted on 11/24/2009 1:41:50 PM PST by Brugmansian
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FReeped yesterday: HERE
Once again, Matthews snivels away with another LOSS.

But then again, anyone going up against Bishop Tobin in a debate will lose.

Every Time. It's called Truth vs Liberal lies or Good vs Evil.

7 posted on 11/24/2009 1:43:07 PM PST by NoRedTape
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To: NYer
If you thought that interview was bad. You should have seen the one about an hour after on Nancy Graces's show. She had on Fr Mitch from EWTN with some other guy who was wearing a Roman Collar but darn if I know if he was an actual priest.

He was grinning the entire time saying that when JPII gave communion to politicians who were pro abortion, his own conduct showed that it was permissible for pro abortion politicians to receive communion.

I still can't get over the grin on his face. It was so smug and pompus and I might add a little demonic.

8 posted on 11/24/2009 1:44:32 PM PST by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: NYer

Why does anyone not on the fringe left even bother to go on Matthews’ show? He’s not going to give them a fair hearing, and his viewership is low anyway. He’s not worth the effort.


9 posted on 11/24/2009 1:46:06 PM PST by Huntress (Who the hell are you to tell me what's in my best interests?)
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To: NYer

Matthews is a drooling, spitting, fat, leftwing Communist that the Chinese Leaders would jail in a nanosecond for being criminally insane and a danger to society...:-)
Lucky for him, half of Our Society are Compassionate Idiots who humor Fools like him....:-(


10 posted on 11/24/2009 1:46:35 PM PST by True Republican Patriot (May GOD Continue to BLESS Our Great President George W. Bush!!)
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To: NYer

Standard headline:

‘Hardball’ host gives ‘insulting lecture’ during interview with {name and title of person who disagrees with him}.


11 posted on 11/24/2009 1:46:35 PM PST by Andyman (The truth shall make you FReep.)
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To: NYer

Of course if anyone was true to their pro-abortion beliefs in actual practice, they would have already been aborted.
The advocate of a cause cannot be the exception to their own rules.


12 posted on 11/24/2009 1:48:02 PM PST by bunkerhill7 (God bless)
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To: Andyman

How does Matthews reconcile his love for abortion with his proclaimed fath (Catholicism)? Even an athiest would have been more respectful.


13 posted on 11/24/2009 1:49:28 PM PST by umgud (I couldn't understand why the ball kept getting bigger......... then it hit me.)
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To: NYer
Libs are circling their wagons:

When Catholic officials endorse liberal initiatives like immigration reform or oppose an execution, the networks don’t worry about the separation of church and state. But with traditional stands against abortion and gay marriage in the crossfire, NBC’s screen graphic asked if the church was "Crossing the Line?" A secular-left lobbyist accused the church of being "not above spiritual and political blackmail."

Newsbusters.org -- Tim Graham

14 posted on 11/24/2009 1:50:01 PM PST by TexasCajun
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To: NYer

That is exactly the bishop’s authority.


15 posted on 11/24/2009 1:52:20 PM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: NYer

These Catholics who think they cand do as they like and go against the teachings of the Church are in the wrong Church.

If you cannot agree with catholic Doctrine you should drop out and become whatever it is that condones murder, and homosexuality, and licentious behavior. Maybe a Scientologist that believes in a space alien.


16 posted on 11/24/2009 2:00:39 PM PST by Venturer
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To: NYer
“Matthews asked Bishop Tobin to be specific, asking whether women who procure abortions should be thrown in jail.”

What's that got to do with the price of apples??? No one is looking to criminalize those who have had abortions. We simply want them to stop having them.

Those who have the responsibility of “making laws” should never make laws that harm anyone. I've thought for some time that the Kennedys might be more comfortable in the Episcopalian Church. Really, it suits them and would allow them to have all the same sacraments without the hassle of the Magisterium "minding" if they undermine the Church as hugely influential public members of the worldly society. No hard feelings, but it's really time to "move on".

17 posted on 11/24/2009 2:02:26 PM PST by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: umgud
I don’t think Mr. Matthews is enough of an intellectual giant to reason through it. That’s the whole problem with this. They keep thinking the Catholic Church is against abortion because it hates women. It is precisely because it loves women and children so much that it wants them to stop hurting each other. If the mother’s life is in jeopardy and there is no other way, then the mother and the father should make the decision and the Church will bless that decision. It’s all this selfish me, me, me, stuff the Church hates.

Obviously Mr. Matthews thinks children are a punishment, as well. Funny, the Old Testament Saints said they were a gift from God. That’s it, Chris, the Bible must be in error, it couldn’t be you.

18 posted on 11/24/2009 2:08:10 PM PST by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: NYer

Crissy was mad that o-bow-man never came over and he was all ready for him with his knee pads and a new roll of paper napkins.


19 posted on 11/24/2009 2:13:25 PM PST by chiefqc
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To: umgud
"How does Matthews reconcile his love for abortion with his proclaimed faith (Catholicism)?"

In the same bogusly belligerent manner that Pelosi, Kerry and other CINOs do. They justify against the Church using their own personal confused & immoral rules.

20 posted on 11/24/2009 2:22:51 PM PST by NoRedTape
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btw............last time I looked, Chrissy Matthews had the lowest cable "news" ratings out of the whole group.

Wonder why? lol.

21 posted on 11/24/2009 2:24:18 PM PST by NoRedTape
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To: NoRedTape

FWIW, Bill O’Reilly has invited Bishop Tobin on his program tonight, at 8pm. Let’s see if he does a better job of this.


22 posted on 11/24/2009 3:31:16 PM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: mware
I still can't get over the grin on his face. It was so smug and pompus and I might add a little demonic.

I knew Fr. Mitch Pacwa was supposed to be on that program last night but was not able to watch it. Thank you for posting a follow up. How did Fr. Mitch do in rebutting the other 'priest'?

23 posted on 11/24/2009 3:33:48 PM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: NoRedTape

And who is the Father of Truth? You got it, God. I’d think twice before I fought God.

Catholics and other Christians like this think that they know the mind of God and He thinks like they do. They make God in the image of themselves.


24 posted on 11/24/2009 3:57:40 PM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: tiki

I should have said: They attempt to make God in the image of themselves.


25 posted on 11/24/2009 3:58:31 PM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: NYer

He beats up girls too - Michelle Malkin in the fall of 2004.


26 posted on 11/24/2009 3:58:53 PM PST by jimfree (Freep and ye shall find! - I am Joe Wilson)
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To: NYer
"FWIW, Bill O’Reilly has invited Bishop Tobin on his program tonight, at 8pm. Let’s see if he does a better job of this."

Yes. Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. Have been all day. O'Reilly is Catholic, too, so we'll see how it goes. I'm so very glad Bishop Tobin is getting the word out there........let's hope the other less visible Bishops all hear it and learn from Bishop, where need be.

27 posted on 11/24/2009 4:33:11 PM PST by NoRedTape
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To: NoRedTape
I'm so very glad Bishop Tobin is getting the word out there........let's hope the other less visible Bishops all hear it and learn from Bishop, where need be.

Ditto! It takes a spine to stand up to these bullying aggressors. Some of the older bishops are not prepared for this attack, nor for the upcoming battles. One need only look at Germany in the 30s to see where these actions are all leading. It's important to remember them in your prayers. They need to draw strength from them.

28 posted on 11/24/2009 4:44:17 PM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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Chrissy was afaraid that he was next. Reminds me of a convo I heard awhile back:

Pro-abort Catholic: But Fr. I am a good catholic.

Fr.: Good catholics don’t pick and choose.


29 posted on 11/24/2009 4:55:44 PM PST by bjorn14 (Waterboard Obama. See if he knows anything.)
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To: NYer
“Words like ‘murder’ and ‘killing’ are used in the case of abortion but they do not seem to apply in terms of writing the law,” Matthews commented. “And I would urge you to consider the possibility of error here, because in getting into telling public officials how to set public policy, you’re stepping beyond moral teaching, and you’re basically assuming a moral authority which I don’t think is yours.

Matthews has many demons in him to make this type of statement.I'm certain of this and not even joking

30 posted on 11/24/2009 5:43:18 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: NYer
Well, it wasn't "bad," but he didn't hit back nearly hard enough. All the bishop had to say, and repeat when needed is that it is not the place of the state or the media to dictate what constitutes sin or an excommunicating offense in the Catholic Church, nor is the Church handcuffed by the mere "fame" of an offender into ignoring its own law. Furthermore, the Church, in light of several Scriptural passages to support the position, considers unworthy reception of the Eucharist to be not only a sin, but a particularly grave sacrilege, depriving those who do so, and remaining unrepentant, of eternal life. The Church has a pastoral duty to its flock to warn them against such sacrilege, and, both in an attempt to protect the communicant from spiritual danger, and to protect, as far as possible, the Body of Christ Himself from sacrilege, it will insist on its 2000-year-old understanding concerning this duty. Finally, there exists the universal understanding that membership in the Catholic Church is voluntary, and, like any other secular society that has rules and expectations for its membership, the Church is in every position to insist on hers.

Obviously, there's plenty more he might say, but this would cover the basics. He might have also pointed out that it was Kennedy who brought this latest round of laundry airing to the public forum, and that Bishop Tobin, with pastoral solicitude, was advising Kennedy privately to absent himself from Communion while in a state of objective, publicly notorious sin and canonical excommunication.

In my opinion, had he taken the offensive immediately and continuously (in a charitable tone of voice, but otherwise quite firm about things), he could have shoved a wrench into the spokes of Matthews' bluster, and perhaps given the other bishops out there a good, spine-enhancing example.

I don't really mean to come-across as "harsh" concerning the bishop's performance. There probably aren't five others in this whole country who would have had the courage to enter this lion's den as he did. But it's time that the "Yes, but you see..." approach gets...um...augmented by the "spirit" behind the sentiments Jesus Himself employed in Matthew 23! At least sometimes. We'll never win back Christendom as long as we're always backpedaling. I sure wish my own archbishop up here in Boston had something forming his spine other than warm jello. His attitude is emblematic of why and how we've let a formerly "Christian" West turn utterly "post-Christian" in just a few generations.

May God be merciful to us, and send us legions of St. Athanasius clones...soon. If we're not already totally beyond saving, may all of us so petition Him with every breath!

31 posted on 11/24/2009 6:03:02 PM PST by magisterium
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To: NYer
Fr.MItch did well considering the circumstances. It was one of those two on one interviews. I only got the tail end of the interview but long enough to see that the interviewer was setting up the questions for the other "priest"

I like it when Fr Mitch defended the Holy Father. He told the other priest that he (JPII) certainly did not know the personal background of all those who receive communion from him. He also would not have been aware if they had gone to confession prior to receiving.

Then Fr Mitch mentioned abortion both the interviewerand the other priest said, "no one likes abortions" That is when you could see steam coming out of Fr Mitches ears.

As for me I wanted to reach through my television set and ripe the grinning priest out of my set.

32 posted on 11/24/2009 7:13:53 PM PST by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: NYer

[. . .President Kennedy had said that a politician should not accept “instruction on public policy” from the Pope or any other ecclesiastical source.]

That doesn’t relieve the Pope or a bishop of the duty to renounce politicians who enable mass murder.


33 posted on 11/24/2009 7:32:45 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: NYer

Chris Matthews is such a maroon!


34 posted on 11/25/2009 8:12:16 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: NYer

I like this Bishop !

He is acting to bring restoration.

Hopefully other Bishops will follow .

Chris Matthew’s is scared to death, he is a huge public proponent of a woman’s “right to choose”.
He is arguing his case as much as Kennedy’s


35 posted on 11/25/2009 12:37:07 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: tiki
: They attempt to make God in the image of themselves.

Perhaps even better: They fashion for themselves a "god" of their own making, after their own image and likeness. Then they worship it. When the ancients did this, they would make a little fanciful statue that represented their "god" ... a calf, perhaps, or some sort of hybrid man-beast-thing. Their idolatry was obvious. Today, leftists and others don't bother with the little statues, but their practice of worshiping a "god" of their own making (essentially, worshiping themselves) is still idolatry.

36 posted on 11/25/2009 12:44:59 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: RnMomof7
Thanks for the post and ping. You commented Chris Matthew’s is scared to death, just curious but what makes you feel this way.
37 posted on 11/25/2009 3:16:22 PM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: umgud; Brugmansian; Andyman
Oh, any by the way, here's some contact information:

Diocese of Providence - 401/278-4500
Office of Communications - 401/278-4600
kdavis@dioceseofprovidence.org


My fan letter to Bishop Tobin

Bishop Thomas Tobin
1 Cathedral Square
Providence, RI 02903

We're grateful for what you said to Patrick Kennedy. Moreover, we're grateful for the way you said it. Plain language. Not a load of equivocating ecclesiastical bafflegab. Charitable, truthful, and to the point.

A good example for every one of us.

We will pray for the timely repentance of Patrick Kennedy.

And we will thank God--- and thank you --- that it is still possible to find a Catholic in the hierarchy.

Sincerely,

The [Don-o and Mrs. Don-o] Family

38 posted on 11/26/2009 6:30:29 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of Lights” (James 1:17).)
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To: NYer

The worst nightmare of the pro-baby butchery crowd is if the bishops start treating abortion like what they say it is. It scares them to death.

Freegards


39 posted on 11/26/2009 6:39:04 AM PST by Ransomed (Son of Ransomed Says Keep the Faith!)
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To: NYer

They( the liberal abortion advocates) love saying they are Catholic...it sounds so good, so TOLERANT.. but maybe he could be the next Kennedy...and wouldn’t that be sweet??

Happy Thanksgiving NYer


40 posted on 11/26/2009 7:53:14 AM PST by RnMomof7
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