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Remembering Our Lady of Guadalupe
Fighting Irish Thomas ^ | 12-12-06 | Tom O'Toole

Posted on 12/12/2009 9:13:32 AM PST by mlizzy

PhotobucketThis is indeed a difficult blog to write. Not only because my favorite book on the subject went missing, but I believe, if I write this story just right, millions of souls will convert to Christ ...

"That's fantasy!" you may say, and yet that is EXACTLY what happened when Our Lady of Guadalupe first appeared. It happened in Mexico in December of 1531. Many Catholics have heard the story of how Mary suddenly appeared to the poor peasant Juan Diego on his way to daily Mass. Juan had already converted to Catholicism, and yet Her appearance, Her promise of protection for his people, and Her plea to go to the bishop and ask a Church be built on this spot, certainly seemed utterly fantastic to him. It must have seemed utterly fantastic to Bishop Juan de Zamorraga too, for he asked Diego to go back to Her and ask for a sign.

And what a sign it was! Originally Juan thought that sign was a bouquet of roses (which could not have bloomed in that winter climate) that Our Lady presented Juan with. Yet as beautiful as they were, the roses were a minor miracle compared to what happened next, when Juan opened his cloak (which was protecting the flowers) to the bishop.

For as Juan handed Zamorraga the flowers, the stunned bishop saw that Juan's cloak was now covered with a miraculous image of the Virgin. While St. Thomas Aquinas correctly called the Holy Eucharist "the perfect art, for it is exactly what it represents," this image of the Virgin could be a close second. For this image of Mary (appearing as a pregnant native woman) is far more than meets the eye. It is a miracle ...



(Excerpt) Read more at fightingirishthomas.net ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Prayer
KEYWORDS: bloggersandpersonal; catholic; juandiego; ourladyofguadalupe; tomotoole
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Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for US!
1 posted on 12/12/2009 9:13:33 AM PST by mlizzy
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To: mlizzy

Let’s start the new year right and CHRISTmas right and give CHRIST the proper credit and the center of our attention. Mary is just another sinner and does not supercede Christ. I don’t know how much clearer the Bible can be on CHRIST! Stop aiding Satan and being distracted by Mary.

1Tim.2:5

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Heb.8
[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb.9:15

[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb.12:24

[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

It is the HOLY SPIRIT that intercedes or Christians;

NOT MARY!

Rom.8:26

[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Stop giving Satan standing through paying homage to Mary.


2 posted on 12/12/2009 9:22:47 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: mlizzy

Thanks! Beautiful.


3 posted on 12/12/2009 9:24:11 AM PST by OpusatFR (Tagline not State Approved. Thoughts not State Approved. Actions not State Approved)
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To: mlizzy

My wife is from Mexico — even through we are not Catholic, we are getting flowers for our statue of Our Lady today.

I was at the Basilica in Mexico City the week that the Pope John Paul canonized Juan Diego. That was interesting and historic, as you can imagine.


4 posted on 12/12/2009 9:25:43 AM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: nmh

Ah, another Mary-basher, I see.

God chose Mary to bear His Only Begotten Son, but to you she is just some chick.

You post shows that you, like all Mary-bashers, don’t understand the relationship of Mary to the Church.


5 posted on 12/12/2009 9:27:41 AM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: nmh
"... Stop aiding Satan and being distracted by Mary ..."

My husband is currently writing a book called "The Ten Biggest Lies About the Catholic Church." I would imagine there will be a chapter on Mary.

All the saints loved her and admired her. All great priests, popes, and bishops admired her. And has a small child ever turned away from her watchful eye?

Mary was the only human being to walk the face of this earth who didn't sin that wasn't God. That makes her pretty important and worthy of admiration, not to mention she was the vessel that carried her Son, Our Christ the King!
6 posted on 12/12/2009 9:35:50 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: freedumb2003
My wife is from Mexico — even through we are not Catholic, we are getting flowers for our statue of Our Lady today. I was at the Basilica in Mexico City the week that the Pope John Paul canonized Juan Diego. That was interesting and historic, as you can imagine.

You are not Catholic, yet have a statue of Our Lady? That's cool.:) I'm always encouraging other faiths to recite the Rosary, for it was not intended for Catholics only, and it can only serve to strengthen the bond between mother and child. Mary loves us all so very much ... P.S. Do you have any photos from the Basilica when Juan Diego was canonized?
7 posted on 12/12/2009 9:41:11 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: nmh
Here's a few you always omit when you cherry pick Scripture.

"For Moses said: Honor thy father and thy mother; and He that shall curse father or mother, dying let him die." Mark 7:10

"And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Luke 1:42-43

"Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." Luke 1:48

It is the HOLY SPIRIT that intercedes or(sic) Christians;

NOT MARY!

FAIL

"I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men:" 1 Timothy 2:1

I'll intercede on your behalf and pray that ignorance will be a mitigating factor in your particular judgment.

8 posted on 12/12/2009 9:53:46 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: nmh
"I will show and give to all people all my love, my help and my defense. Because I am your merciful mother and the mother of all nations on this earth" –Our Lady of Guadalupe, revealing herself to St. Juan Diego.
9 posted on 12/12/2009 10:10:12 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: mlizzy
Remembering Our Lady of Guadalupe
The (Miraculous) Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Remembering Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Our Lady of Guadalupe Feast: December 12 [Repost]
Brief History of the Apparitions of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]

The History of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Ecumenical]
2 Questions related to Faith & Apologetics. A Feast day & Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
The Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Our Lady of Guadalupe called 'Mother Without Borders' in Los Angeles (Catholic Caucus)
Hernándo Cortés and Our Lady

Our Lady of Guadalupe, Patroness of the Church Militant (Catholic Caucus)
Scientists certify Our Lady of Guadalupe tilma
STRANGE LIGHT CLAIMED IN GUADALUPE IMAGE AFTER MEXICO CITY OKAYED ABORTION
STRANGE LIGHT CLAIMED IN GUADALUPE IMAGE AFTER MEXICO CITY OKAYED ABORTION -- posted on News Forum
The Story of Guadalupe: Hope for Our Violent World

Our Lady of Guadalupe: Protectress of the Unborn
Was Our Lady of Guadalupe Wrong?
METHODIST CHURCH DISPLAYS VIRGIN OF GUADALUPE
GUADALUPE DEVOTION IS CROSSING INTO PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS
A Novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe

Relic From Guadalupe Tilma to Tour U.S.
The Amazing Truth of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Our Lady Of Guadalupe
Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531
Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes

10 posted on 12/12/2009 10:17:38 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: nmh

You really need to read up on Our Lady of Guadalupe. Are you aware that Christ is in the picture/famous image on the tilma of St. Juan Diego.

The natives of Mexico at that time recognized that. There were countless conversions to Catholicism because of it. And those conversions still are occurring today.


11 posted on 12/12/2009 10:19:43 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: mlizzy

I may have those pics — I’ll look around (I think I was digital by that time LOL)


12 posted on 12/12/2009 10:21:23 AM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: mlizzy
My favorite quote from Mother Angelica. What will all the Mary-bashers say when they are confronted at the moment of their death with not honoring the Mother of God?

"Never apologize for the Blessed Virgin Mary!"

~~Mother Angelica


13 posted on 12/12/2009 10:24:20 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: nmh; mlizzy
You can NOT separate Mary from Christ because you end up rejecting the Incarnation

From The words of GK Chesterton...

When I was a boy a more Puritan generation objected to a statue upon my parish church representing the Virgin and Child. After much controversy, they compromised by taking away the Child. One would think that this was even more corrupted with Mariolatry, unless the mother was counted less dangerous when deprived of a sort of weapon. But the practical difficulty is also a parable. You cannot chip away the statue of a mother from all round that of a new-born child. You can not suspend the new-born child in mid-air; indeed you cannot really have a statue of a new-born child at all. Similarly, you cannot suspend the idea of a new-born child in the void or think of him without thinking of his mother. You cannot visit the child without visiting the mother; you cannot in common human life approach the child except through the mother. If we are to think of Christ in this aspect at all, the other idea follows as it is followed in history. We must either leave Christ out of Christmas, or Christmas out of Christ, or we must admit, if only as we admit it in an old picture, that those holy heads are too near together for the haloes not to mingle and cross.” — The Everlasting Man, by G.K. Chesterton

;

14 posted on 12/12/2009 10:41:11 AM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: nmh
Let’s start the new year right and CHRISTmas right and give CHRIST the proper credit and the center of our attention.

Let's start this new conversation right and bear in mind that Christmas was when the one who called himself the TRUTH was born; and let's give the TRUTH the proper credit and make the TRUTH the center of our attention.

And one way to do that might be to know and understand Catholic teaching BEFORE attacking it. It's perfectly understandable for someone who claims to love Jesus to question and debate our beliefs once he has taken the trouble to find out what we truly believe. It is self-contradictory to claim to love the truth and then to assume falsehoods about our teaching.

15 posted on 12/12/2009 10:54:44 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Salvation

Remember when The-Heathen-Hillary asked: “Who painted it?”?


16 posted on 12/12/2009 11:09:04 AM PST by gigster
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To: stfassisi
Very nice Chesterton quote and icon.
17 posted on 12/12/2009 11:27:45 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: OpusatFR

As Hillary said a few months ago, “That’s a beautiful picture...who painted it?”


18 posted on 12/12/2009 11:39:42 AM PST by ErnBatavia (It's not the Obama Administration....it's the "Obama Regime".)
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To: mlizzy

“All the saints loved her and admired her. All great priests, popes, and bishops admired her.”

Pity that the Apostles don’t mention her much besides the birth story...and not at all after Acts 1...


19 posted on 12/12/2009 11:50:38 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers

20 posted on 12/12/2009 12:54:11 PM PST by BlueDragon (there is no such thing as a "true" compass, all are subject to both variation & deviation)
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To: Mr Rogers
Pity that the Apostles don’t mention her much besides the birth story...and not at all after Acts 1...

I've always wondered how "Christian" but "Mary-less" men treat the women in their lives, when they can't even honor, love, and adore the mother of God.

Lourdes, Fatima, Guadalupe, etc. ... she's not that hard to find.
21 posted on 12/12/2009 1:08:09 PM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: mlizzy
I've always wondered how "Christian" but "Mary-less" men treat the women in their lives, when they can't even honor, love, and adore the mother of God.

You can quit worrying you little head over it...We treat(ed) our Mothers just fine...You can ask the Mothers...

22 posted on 12/12/2009 3:12:42 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool

On this day that Catholics celebrate the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, I can only message that Mary loves us and cares for us all. If you wish to rebuke her love or belittle her in some fashion by denying her importance in the whole Christ Story, you are cheating yourself out of the joy that comes from knowing her along with her Son.


23 posted on 12/12/2009 6:06:31 PM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: mlizzy; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

24 posted on 12/12/2009 6:08:43 PM PST by narses ('in an odd way this is cheering news!'.)
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To: mlizzy; Mr Rogers
you are cheating yourself out of the joy that comes from knowing her along with her Son.

The thinking, "scientific" (in the good old sense) me sees the problem with this. Maybe we are deluded. Maybe it's a snare of the enemy. What possible canon is there to prove that this joy and "consolation" (which, we should never forget, meant strengthening - like comfort - long before it meant "there, there, you poor pitiful dear) is "valid"? I can think of none.

But part of what fuels these Marian posts is precisely the astonished sense we feelthy papists have that not only are we loved by the Lord who created and set into motion the distant stars and the particles which make the atom, but also by His Mother.

And, this is like a mother's love, in our experience.

Today is kind of a big day for American Catholics because we see a, what shall I say, spectacular, incomprehensibly generous gift in this apparition to a, let's face it, conquered peasant. And the sequel, almost inexplicably, is the conversion to Christianity (even if one thinks the Catholic version is a horrible perversion, one still has to admit that they heard bits of the Bible, they heard -- and believed -- a particle of the wonderful news of the astounding love of God.

Even if one thought of that as a poor beginning to something that would be made far better by Protestant ministrations, still it was a magnificent beginning when compared to sullen disbelief.

Today I was at a memorial Mass for a very wonderful woman who died rich in years and yet too soon. Because it was Our Lady of Guadalupe, there was a kind of barely suppressed Marian aspect to the service.

The sermon, whoever, amounted to a flinging of the gauntlet into Death's face. I listened carefully (the priest is a friend) and there was nothing there a Calvinist might not have said.

And yet I was consoled not only by the Gospel Truth, but (for me unexpected) sense that there was a mother's bosom into which I could weep, not just for the lady who had died, but for my own sins and fears and sorrows.

This gratuitous soothing is something I wish all my friends shared. And that wish is at least part of what drives these Marian posts. We have experiences which, at least in my case, we never expected or imagined. TO us it seems undeniable that they come through the loving intercession of Mary. So of course we want to share that.

25 posted on 12/12/2009 7:48:25 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: mlizzy
On this day that Catholics celebrate the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, I can only message that Mary loves us and cares for us all. If you wish to rebuke her love or belittle her in some fashion by denying her importance in the whole Christ Story, you are cheating yourself out of the joy that comes from knowing her along with her Son.

You suggested that non Catholic men don't know how to treat their Mothers...You are clueless about that and I'm not interested in your religious superstitions...

Apparently unknown to you , millions of us have somehow found our way to Jesus without the intervention of a supposed aborition ...

And from the testimonies I have read, your aborition seems to lead people to itself rather than Jesus...

Thanks but no thanks...Jesus said', Come unto Me'...That's where I went...

26 posted on 12/12/2009 7:54:18 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool

hah,,,aborition=apparition...


27 posted on 12/12/2009 7:56:07 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Mad Dawg; mlizzy; Kolokotronis

One of the points that Kolokotronis has made to me before is that there is an element of emotional attachment involved with ‘Mariology’ that A) I obviously do not relate to, and B) makes it counterproductive to discuss.

I need to learn to avoid the temptation...for what I write is generally received right up there with “Your Mama wears combat boots!” and kills any productive discussion. It isn’t intended that way, but its like a happy mother showing you a picture of her baby, and you replying, “Looks like a little red faced dwarf!” True or not, you don’t advance anything.

Maybe someday I will learn...

;>(


28 posted on 12/12/2009 8:09:15 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
Maybe someday I will learn...

Maybe someday Mary will appear to you in a dream ... (to quote a famous line from Angels in the Outfield, "It could happen.")
29 posted on 12/13/2009 3:25:23 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: Iscool
You suggested that non Catholic men don't know how to treat their Mothers...You are clueless about that and I'm not interested in your religious superstitions...

I did not say non-Catholic men don't know how to treat their Mothers. I said, "I've always wondered how "Christian" but "Mary-less" men treat the women in their lives" ... not *just* their mothers. Also, I hadn't any idea if you were a man or a woman from your post or name, so this wasn't directed at you "directly." But when one believes in Mary's important (and honored) part in the Jesus Story (she wasn't picked up at the local hoosegow, she was "The Immaculate Conception") they also tend to believe in the importance of women in general, thus it carries over to their wives, mothers, daughters, etc.
30 posted on 12/13/2009 4:00:41 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: Iscool
Thanks but no thanks...Jesus said', Come unto Me'...That's where I went...

Jesus also said "this is my body" not "this is a symbol of my body," at the Last Supper. In the Catholic Church, Jesus reigns superior through the Eucharist ... that is to say, the "live" Eucharist. He is *quite literally* the "sum and substance" of the faith. Whereas in the Protestant denominations, it is His Word alone that their faith is based upon, so the so-called "interference" from Mary could seem like a battle of sorts for importance, because nothing definitive seems to separate them. If all faiths came Home to the Living Eucharist, then to love, honor, and adore Mary wouldn't be out of place for anyone.
31 posted on 12/13/2009 4:43:58 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: OpusatFR
You are welcome! Here is a wonderful blog by a priest by the name of Fr. Mark Kirby. Whenever I desire a spiritual dose of wisdom, I read his latest posts -- (his graphics are *incredible* as well). He's deeply in touch with Our Lord, His mother, the saints, Adoration, etc.

Vultus Christi
32 posted on 12/13/2009 5:16:16 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: Mr Rogers
Looks like a little red-faced dwarf!

Gotta love it! NOT how to make friends and influence people.

I think that you are pointing out the other side of the alleged "good" that I am trying to describe. The "personal" relationship that we think we experience with the saints, and with Mary in particular, requires of us feelthy papists a certain emotional self-discipline if we're going to discuss the whole Mary and Saints thing with people who think it wrong or at least questionable.

And, if it ain't true, it does follow that it's a pretty remarkable sort of self-induced psychopathology. And that's sort of unsettling. The nice thing about being a convert is that I had to work through all that from the outside in. Yeah, it COULD be a sort of projective technique, substituting icons for ink-blots, but after a while I decided to dare to hope that it wasn't, that the "one body", "communion of the" saints stuff was worth believing in, with all the bells and whistles.

Lame analogy: I gave someone I am "sponsoring" into full communion two encyclicals by J2P2. I handed them to him at the "Enquirers Class" (Hereinafter RCIA, Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) last week, explaining that I didn't have the time even to do what I called "Guy gift wrapping" - namely: leaving them in the paper bag they came in.

People in general, guys in particular, like to cut to the chase, the bottom line, the final score. When we think about Christian stuff, we think that way. "Okay, 'Jesus is Lord, He loves me, He has saved me;' how could I possibly need to know anything else?" Guy gift wrap is quite enough, since what really matters is the present.

So try giving your wife something in guy gift wrap. Call me when you get out of the hospital.

The wrapping, the frills, all that is, to some of us (mostly of the female persuasion,) a sign that every single aspect of the present, was filled with thoughts of not only supplying your need but delighting you, filled with love and wanting you to know that you are loved.

(Of course, a lot of this is just proof the women are aliens.)

Well, I might suggest, that's all, just a suggestion, that maybe "need" is not exactly the right way to look at it. The thrill of the Song "Tie a Yellow Ribbon" is that all the guy asked for, all he NEEDED, was ONE yellow ribbon, and his beloved's response was to festoon the place with hundreds of them. One would have been quite sufficient, and had one been all that he got, he would have been a fool to ask for more.

So, sorta kinda in the same vein, the gift, the sufficient gift, the all we need gift, is being grafted into the Body. But God makes it spectacular, with little fillips, and curls and flounces and braids and sparkles and rainbows and fireworks world without end!

One of my wise-guy lines (rapidly becoming obsolete) is "Being Catholic is just like being Christian, only in Technicolor!"

Again, this is meant to be a kind of description. It's not intended to be polemical or persuasive.

33 posted on 12/13/2009 8:44:38 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: nmh
What is this, hit and run? You come in, fire some forensic shots, and run out the door, like the joke about the panda?

Weird! For us, a little demonic interference at the celebration, reminiscent of Bierce's (I think) definition of a Puritan as someone who is afraid that somebody somewhere might be having fun.

34 posted on 12/13/2009 8:50:28 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mr Rogers

BTW: Did you read the article on which this thread is hung? It really does seem that something amazing is inand on this tilma, and, to carry my further analogy, the gift of the miraculous roses is almost lost in the wonder of the wrapping.


35 posted on 12/13/2009 8:54:37 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

No, no “hit and run” here.

I state the facts and leave it to people like you to make fools of themselves stating otherwise.

Pearls before swine comes to mind.

I will not get in the gutter with you.


36 posted on 12/13/2009 10:33:17 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: mlizzy
If all faiths came Home to the Living Eucharist, then to love, honor, and adore Mary wouldn't be out of place for anyone.

My denomination is not a faith...We have no faith in our church...All our faith is in our risen Savior...

We have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ...There is nothing we could get out of putting a cracker in our mouths that would increase that personal relationship...

We have the same Spirit (part of the Trinity) within us that your popes claim to have guiding them and the same Spirit that raised Jesus to Heaven...

What's the point in a wafer that goes into and through your system in 20 minutes??? How does Jesus get from your intestines to your soul???

Well more than half of all Catholics don't believe that your wine and bread turns into the flesh and blood of Jesus...I'd guess many of you guys are Catholics because you were born into it and many more are Catholics because of the sense of the religious surroundings, ie, the priests with the robes, the beautiful building, paintings, chants, etc...

Our faith in Jesus is a simple faith...It is us, and Jesus...Can you have a relationship with Jesus without all that 'religion'???

37 posted on 12/13/2009 11:09:24 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: nmh
State the facts? And I'm in the gutter?

Could you define "fact"? Or is that too guttery for you? Could you explain how stating things which are not true about us Catholics and then expecting to be believed is reasonable?

Could you state precisely what is "in the gutter" about the things I posted?

Certainly someone who did not "rejoice in the evil" would not merely hurl charges like "in the gutter," but would substantiate them and explain what exactly was "in the gutter" about the behavior he was demeaning so that the poor, ignorant, benighted papist could amend his ways.

This is why a certain class of those who attack us is almost entirely without credibility. They say things about us that aren't true. They make vague and incomprehensible charges not only about our Church but about ourselves. They consider it somehow beneath them to try to express themselves in a way which is understandable. Then they disparage those who ask them to support and substantiate their wild accusations.

If it's "in the gutter" to back up your statements, to show what their claim to truth is, then maybe the gutter isn't such a bad thing to be in. What I mean by "hit and run" is the posting of wild and inaccurate accusations and the failure to make any effort to support them when they are challenged. You may think that's evangelism. It seems more like little boys throwing mud at somebody dressed for church, m9issing their target, and then running away.

Is it the superstition of your cult that the mere articulation of accusation will bring about conversion in the elect? Does this sect believe that merely citing verses from Scripture, no matter how irrelevant, is enough to demonstrate the superiority of one's views?

How very interesting! How very sad is a mistaken sense of one's own correctness supported and defended by a wall of truculent unwillingness to support what one says!

38 posted on 12/13/2009 11:09:32 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Iscool
Well more than half of all Catholics don't believe that your wine and bread turns into the flesh and blood of Jesus...I'd guess many of you guys are Catholics because you were born into it and many more are Catholics because of the sense of the religious surroundings, ie, the priests with the robes, the beautiful building, paintings, chants, etc...

So? Because some people don't believe something therefore it's not true? Because many are called, but few chosen, there is something wrong with the call or the chosen ones? Because there are bad Catholics, there are no good Catholics? What does the immature or even absent faith of some, even of many, have to do with anything? Clearly a great number of Americans do not believe the founding ideas of the Constitution or the Declaration. That's a reflection on them, not on the founding documents.

Besides, have you SEEN any of the buildings lately? The average modern catholic church is a monstrosity!

And, you know what. I don't believe it when Protestants ask, "How does Jesus get from your intestines to your soul???" If they really wanted to know, they could find out pretty easily. I mean the thinking is not exactly a no-brainer, but we don't hide it either. The question has been asked more than once in the past couple of millennia.

And, as to simple faith and all that, it is no where required to understand the thinking realted to Eucharistic doctrine. It is enough to believe, to take Jesus at His word.

You may recall He did NOT say, "This is a representation, a symbol, the virtual presence, a reminder, a sign of my body."

He is reported to have said, τουτο εστιν το σομα μου. Yes, I know he probably spoke Aramaic, but the Bible being inspired and our faith being simple and all, we're not going to try to reconstruct the Aramaic. We'll accept what is given, an that is, simply, This is my body.

And, simply, because He said: "τουτο ποιειτε εις την εμην αναμνησιν," we do it.

We are too simple to claim that NOT doing it is obedient to the Lord whose commands we trust. We are too simple to claim that when He says it "is" a thing, our scholars and thinkers can tell us it isn't really what He said it is, and He didn't say what the Bible says he said.

39 posted on 12/13/2009 12:56:59 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
And, you know what. I don't believe it when Protestants ask, "How does Jesus get from your intestines to your soul???" If they really wanted to know, they could find out pretty easily. I mean the thinking is not exactly a no-brainer, but we don't hide it either. The question has been asked more than once in the past couple of millennia.

Been there, done that...You might get a jolt if you drink some Jolt, but I never got a thing out of eating the wafer...And it didn't appear that anyone around me did either....

But whatever didn't happen, it was over in 20 minutes...Guess I needed to get in the back of the line so I could get another fix...I'd hate to think I got a 20 minute fix of Jesus and had to wait til the next Mass to get me some more...

You guys have to keep coming back, keep coming back to get some more...And your kids and entire family have to keep coming back to your church because that's where Jesus is...

He is reported to have said, τουτο εστιν το σομα μου. Yes, I know he probably spoke Aramaic, but the Bible being inspired and our faith being simple and all, we're not going to try to reconstruct the Aramaic. We'll accept what is given, an that is, simply, This is my body.

And He is also the door...And, He is the Way...And He is the Rock...And He is bread...And He is meat...

Jesus didn't leave instructions on how you guys are supposed to turn bread and wine into His body and blood...Maybe that should have been a clue...

And, as to simple faith and all that, it is no where required to understand the thinking realted to Eucharistic doctrine. It is enough to believe, to take Jesus at His word.

HaH...Go on with your religion blindfolded, eh??? Apparently that's what they operated on for years until Marty Luther took the blindfold off...No thanks...God didn't preserve His words so we could blindly follow some religion...

40 posted on 12/13/2009 2:27:05 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: nmh
"Stop giving Satan standing through paying homage to Mary."

You are mistaken. Don't you think Jesus Himself obeyed the Commandments? Including "Honor thy father and thy mother"?

And do we do wrong calling her "blessed" as she prophesied that all generations would do?

But I don't want to argue. I just want to say Merry Christmas. And since we all intercede for each other, ("The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” — James 5:16) I will pray and intercede for you--- and ask you to do the same for me.

41 posted on 12/13/2009 2:31:02 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Behold, all generations will call me blessed." - Mary (Luke 1:48))
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To: stfassisi

Beautiful. Thank you.


42 posted on 12/13/2009 2:33:41 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Behold, all generations will call me blessed." - Mary (Luke 1:48))
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To: mlizzy

Friday night at our church they had a Spanish Mass started at 10:30 pm and the singing and praying and celebrating reportedly went on until close to 3am.


43 posted on 12/13/2009 2:42:17 PM PST by visualops (Freepin' on my Pre!)
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To: Mad Dawg

44 posted on 12/13/2009 2:51:00 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Behold, all generations will call me blessed." - Mary (Luke 1:48))
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To: OpusatFR

45 posted on 12/13/2009 2:52:51 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Behold, all generations will call me blessed." - Mary (Luke 1:48))
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To: Mrs. Don-o
You are one of the more civilized people on this thread so I will respond to you.

Stop giving Satan standing through paying homage to Mary.

“You are mistaken. Don't you think Jesus Himself obeyed the Commandments? Including “Honor thy father and thy mother”?”

Yes we are to honor our EARTHLY mother and father. Mary is not our earthly mother.

“And do we do wrong calling her “blessed” as she prophesied that all generations would do?

Luke 1:28

28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Yes, Mary was blessed AMONG women. Mary is the only female in the Bible to be blessed. She was favored but not a co-redeemer and still a sinner.

No one is righteous, not one and that includes Mary.

Rom.3:10

[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

That includes Mary and anyone else mentioned in the Bible. The only one that is righteous is Christ (God).

But I don't want to argue. I just want to say Merry Christmas. And since we all intercede for each other, (”The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” — James 5:16) I will pray and intercede for you-— and ask you to do the same for me.

We can try to be righteous and imitate Christ but the truth is that ALL have fallen short of the glory of God, Perfection.

Rom.3:23

[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

It is Christ that is our mediator.

1Tim.2:5

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Not Mary or any other dead people.

We certainly can and should pray for others,

however it it the Holy Spirit that intercedes for any of us; not Mary or any other dead sinner.

Rom.8:26

[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

What always troubles me is why the BIBLE upsets people. It shouldn't. It should do the opposite - peace and reassurance. People on this thread are down right UGLY when it comes to Biblical truth. Those folks should be wondering, after they calm down, about why Biblical TRUTH is so upsetting and makes them so angry. The unfortunate truth is similar to Obama people ... they can't get past their emotions and want to believe lies others tell them.

In any event, Merry Christmas to you too!

46 posted on 12/13/2009 2:58:44 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Wonderful! I am studying the typology of Mary in the Old Testament and Psalms. How I missed her in these books, I’ll never understand. She is present in so many passages!

From the Tower of Ivory in Songs to Zephaniah to David dancing before the Ark to Gideon, she’s there!

From the Garden, Tree and Eve to so many more references, she’s foreshadowed.

I suppose God knew I needed to grow further in understanding before showing this to me.

Scott Hahn has written a wonderful book, “Hail Holy Queen,” which is just a fantastic exegesis on Mary, but even he missed some references to her. Our Pastor, (theology professor retired, and we are blessed!) has given us more.


47 posted on 12/13/2009 3:08:20 PM PST by OpusatFR (Tagline not State Approved. Thoughts not State Approved. Actions not State Approved)
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To: mlizzy

“Here is a wonderful blog by a priest by the name of Fr. Mark Kirby.”

Thanks! Wow, what a charism!

“His Excellency, Bishop Edward J. Slattery of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa, Oklahoma has given Father Mark a special mandate to live under the Rule of Saint Benedict in adoration before the Eucharistic Face of Jesus, offering thanksgiving, intercession, and reparation for all his brothers in Holy Orders. In this way, Father is preparing the foundation of the new Diocesan Benedictine Monastery of Our Lady of the Cenacle. Father Mark is available to the priests and deacons of the Diocese for spiritual and sacramental support in their pursuit of holiness. He is also charged with the spiritual formation of women who desire to dedicate themselves to spiritual motherhood in favour of priests. “

http://vultus.stblogs.org/


48 posted on 12/13/2009 3:11:55 PM PST by OpusatFR (Tagline not State Approved. Thoughts not State Approved. Actions not State Approved)
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To: visualops
Friday night at our church they had a Spanish Mass started at 10:30 pm and the singing and praying and celebrating reportedly went on until close to 3am.

Wow, that's incredible. I used to go to an Hispanic parish once in awhile just because I loved to be part of their beautiful devotion to the Holy Mass, Our Mother, and the saints. St. Juan Diego, pray for US!
49 posted on 12/13/2009 3:29:53 PM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: OpusatFR

There is no rose of such virtue
As is the rose that bare Jesu:
Alleluya.

For in this rose contained was
Heaven and earth in little space:
Res miranda.

50 posted on 12/13/2009 3:48:40 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Behold, all generations will call me blessed." - Mary (Luke 1:48))
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