This is indeed a difficult blog to write. Not only because my favorite book on the subject went missing, but I believe, if I write this story just right, millions of souls will convert to Christ ... Posted on 12/12/2009 9:13:32 AM PST by mlizzy
This is indeed a difficult blog to write. Not only because my favorite book on the subject went missing, but I believe, if I write this story just right, millions of souls will convert to Christ ...
"That's fantasy!" you may say, and yet that is EXACTLY what happened when Our Lady of Guadalupe first appeared. It happened in Mexico in December of 1531. Many Catholics have heard the story of how Mary suddenly appeared to the poor peasant Juan Diego on his way to daily Mass. Juan had already converted to Catholicism, and yet Her appearance, Her promise of protection for his people, and Her plea to go to the bishop and ask a Church be built on this spot, certainly seemed utterly fantastic to him. It must have seemed utterly fantastic to Bishop Juan de Zamorraga too, for he asked Diego to go back to Her and ask for a sign.
And what a sign it was! Originally Juan thought that sign was a bouquet of roses (which could not have bloomed in that winter climate) that Our Lady presented Juan with. Yet as beautiful as they were, the roses were a minor miracle compared to what happened next, when Juan opened his cloak (which was protecting the flowers) to the bishop.
For as Juan handed Zamorraga the flowers, the stunned bishop saw that Juan's cloak was now covered with a miraculous image of the Virgin. While St. Thomas Aquinas correctly called the Holy Eucharist "the perfect art, for it is exactly what it represents," this image of the Virgin could be a close second. For this image of Mary (appearing as a pregnant native woman) is far more than meets the eye. It is a miracle ...
(Excerpt) Read more at fightingirishthomas.net ...
You are mistaken. Don't you think Jesus Himself obeyed the Commandments? Including "Honor thy father and thy mother"?
And do we do wrong calling her "blessed" as she prophesied that all generations would do?
But I don't want to argue. I just want to say Merry Christmas. And since we all intercede for each other, ("The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” — James 5:16) I will pray and intercede for you--- and ask you to do the same for me.
Beautiful. Thank you.
Friday night at our church they had a Spanish Mass started at 10:30 pm and the singing and praying and celebrating reportedly went on until close to 3am.
Stop giving Satan standing through paying homage to Mary.
“You are mistaken. Don't you think Jesus Himself obeyed the Commandments? Including “Honor thy father and thy mother”?”
Yes we are to honor our EARTHLY mother and father. Mary is not our earthly mother.
“And do we do wrong calling her “blessed” as she prophesied that all generations would do?
Luke 1:28
28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Yes, Mary was blessed AMONG women. Mary is the only female in the Bible to be blessed. She was favored but not a co-redeemer and still a sinner.
No one is righteous, not one and that includes Mary.
Rom.3:10
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
That includes Mary and anyone else mentioned in the Bible. The only one that is righteous is Christ (God).
But I don't want to argue. I just want to say Merry Christmas. And since we all intercede for each other, (”The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” — James 5:16) I will pray and intercede for you-— and ask you to do the same for me.
We can try to be righteous and imitate Christ but the truth is that ALL have fallen short of the glory of God, Perfection.
Rom.3:23
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It is Christ that is our mediator.
1Tim.2:5
[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Not Mary or any other dead people.
We certainly can and should pray for others,
however it it the Holy Spirit that intercedes for any of us; not Mary or any other dead sinner.
Rom.8:26
[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
What always troubles me is why the BIBLE upsets people. It shouldn't. It should do the opposite - peace and reassurance. People on this thread are down right UGLY when it comes to Biblical truth. Those folks should be wondering, after they calm down, about why Biblical TRUTH is so upsetting and makes them so angry. The unfortunate truth is similar to Obama people ... they can't get past their emotions and want to believe lies others tell them.
In any event, Merry Christmas to you too!
Wonderful! I am studying the typology of Mary in the Old Testament and Psalms. How I missed her in these books, I’ll never understand. She is present in so many passages!
From the Tower of Ivory in Songs to Zephaniah to David dancing before the Ark to Gideon, she’s there!
From the Garden, Tree and Eve to so many more references, she’s foreshadowed.
I suppose God knew I needed to grow further in understanding before showing this to me.
Scott Hahn has written a wonderful book, “Hail Holy Queen,” which is just a fantastic exegesis on Mary, but even he missed some references to her. Our Pastor, (theology professor retired, and we are blessed!) has given us more.
“Here is a wonderful blog by a priest by the name of Fr. Mark Kirby.”
Thanks! Wow, what a charism!
“His Excellency, Bishop Edward J. Slattery of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa, Oklahoma has given Father Mark a special mandate to live under the Rule of Saint Benedict in adoration before the Eucharistic Face of Jesus, offering thanksgiving, intercession, and reparation for all his brothers in Holy Orders. In this way, Father is preparing the foundation of the new Diocesan Benedictine Monastery of Our Lady of the Cenacle. Father Mark is available to the priests and deacons of the Diocese for spiritual and sacramental support in their pursuit of holiness. He is also charged with the spiritual formation of women who desire to dedicate themselves to spiritual motherhood in favour of priests. “
The Lord Hears the Cry of the Poor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI9h7B8L71U
He gave us such a mother and such Grace of Salvation for we are so very poor.
Okay, pro-forma: We can't STOP giving Satan standing through paying homage to Mary because we never STARTED giving standing through paying homage to Mary.
Yes we are to honor our EARTHLY mother and father. Mary is not our earthly mother.
The Baptized are members of the body of Christ. That body was born by Mary. So she is our mother by our adoption in Christ.
-- Further, I do not find that Moses wrote Honor your EARTHLY father and mother. (I don't understand why the Bible, as written, so often troubles people.) And I expect my adopted nephew and niece to honor their parents.
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
and
The only one that is righteous is Christ (God).
On the contrary: Jesus asks, "Why do you call me good?" IF we are to take these sweeping statements with the modern logical interpretation of "no one" etc. Then we must conclude EITHER that Jesus was not good OR that he was not named in the Bible. So it makes as much sense to be open to the Psalmist's saying there is none that is righteous is not to be taken in a completely exhaustive sense.
The following is not dispositive so I don't offer it as a proof but as an indication of a line of thought: If Mary is described as κεχαριτομένε it would be useful to wonder what perfected grace (it is a feminine perfect passive participle) might be. We look forward to being sinless and to being reunited with our bodies. None of these things will be merited, they will all be graces perfected in us in the future.
While it IS understandably controversial, it is not clearly unbiblical to conclude that the perfection of grace would include sinlessness and being reunited with one's body after death. These are what we assert about Mary.
Further, something Protestants don't often understand about the Immaculate conception, Mary is sinless, we hold, by the prevenient grace of Christ, rescuing her from the cesspool of sin BEFORE she fell in, while we are rescued AFTER we fall in. So to attribute sinlessness to Mary(at least as we do in the Catholic Church is NOT to detract from Christ's saving work (in our view) but rather to say it is more splendid than ever., FAR more splendid than one might dare to hope.
We certainly can and should pray for others,
however it it the Holy Spirit that intercedes for any of us; not Mary or any other dead sinner.
Rom.8:26
[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Our Lord says that God is the God of the living, for all live to Him. So to characterize anyone as "dead" is troublesome and may be found to be going against Scripture. We, like Mary, live in the Spirit, and it is only because we do so that our intercession or hers is invited. Also Romans 8:26 has no word that indicates exclusivity or the manner of the Holy Spirit's intercession. Just as (we hold) the Holy Spirit prompts you to prayer and, as it were, conducts that prayer through Christ to the Father, so the same Spirit prompts intercessors united by the same Spirit in the body of Christ. Just as my Protestant mother-in-law, a mighty prayer warrior, intercedes by grace and with the prompting and assistance of the Holy Spirit, so also Mary intercedes. We see no contradiction between Rom 8:26 (one of my favorite passages, one I think VERY important and much neglected) and asking each other or the saints in heaven to pray for us.
What always troubles me is why the BIBLE upsets people.
I share that trouble. Leaving aside its wonderful inspiration and the great gift that it is, it is also beautiful and endlessly fascinating.
However, as I hope I have shown or, at least persuasively suggested, the Bible and the conclusions people think they have drawn from it are not the same thing. Two people can look at the same Bible, even the same verses and find very different things in them.
As to not wanting to argue, I want to say this gently and I hope you will read it gently.
Yours was the second post on this thread and your first paragraph ended with:
Stop aiding Satan and being distracted by Mary.Stop aiding Satan and being distracted by Mary.
I can see that this accusation was motivated by a desire to save us from error and to urge us toward the truth, the glorious truth of the Gospel of the Love of God in Christ Jesus.
Can you see that telling me that I am aiding Satan and am distracted by my devotion to Mary (especially when my EXPERIENCE as a convert to Catholicism is that Mary ever says, "Do whatever HE tells you," and, while gently encouraging me refuses to let me stop with her but urges me on to her Son) might be mistaken for a kind of insult?
I just suggested that you were practicing hit-and-run by posting and then not coming back to deal with answers to your post. You concluded that I was in the gutter.
You by comparison, told me I was aiding Satan, giving him standing, and was distracted. I never said about you anything half as nasty as what you said about us, yet you responded angrily and dismissively to me. At least I addressed the points you raised.
May I gently suggest to you that some of us Catholics have read Scripture, take it seriously, have an intense and thoughtful piety, and are sort of nonplussed when someone, without supporting arguments tells us we are aiding Satan?
May I suggest further that to say or suggest that we are upset by the Bible when it's not the Bible itself but particular interpretations that upset us seems to be well, not quite fair. It's demeaning. I didn't study Greek and Hebrew because the Bible upsets me. We have a slightly different Bible, but we read mostly the same texts. We have spent no less time than Protestants thinking about them. To suggest that because we have reached different conclusions we are upset about the Bible seems at the very best, a little misplaced.
May you also have a blessed Christmas, and may the joy of the Christ child fill your whole year, your whole life.
Wow. That’s really pretty.
Yeah. He didn't tell us how. This makes it interesting that a lot of sola Scriptura Protestants are so persuaded that we're doing it wrong, huh?
One of the things which makes defending the true Church so interesting is the minute we are done dealing with an attack about how we philosophize and are too sophisticated we have to wheel to deal with an attack on our trustingly blind approach to our religion.
We didn't invent it. Why do you suppose Jesus came up with such a strange ritual?
Your idea, that he was prescribing that we eat a cracker to remember him by, is no less odd. Why eat a cracker? Why should a cracker remind me of Jesus? Why not a steak, or a slice of apple? Why eat anything at all?
Stop second-guessing God, and go with what he gave you.
Because, nmh, you aren't teaching "Biblical truth," but only grave error.
Never minimize Mary. She stood there and watched her beloved son torn to pieces and nailed to a tree, for the sake of ungrateful sinners. She did so for one reason, and one reason only.
God wanted it.
Thanking you for this post.
(from one convert to another :-) )
Thank you, Campion, for this post.
That's the point...Jesus never came up with the ritual...You guys did...
Your idea, that he was prescribing that we eat a cracker to remember him by, is no less odd. Why eat a cracker? Why should a cracker remind me of Jesus? Why not a steak, or a slice of apple? Why eat anything at all?
A couple of reasons...Bread was a main staple back then...
And, they apparently didn't slice their bread...They broke it...Jesus said break this bread, which is my body, which is (will be) broken, for you...The breaking of the bread is key...We are to remember Jesus when we break bread...
And I don't believe Jesus said that wine was His blood...He said drink the cup...He focused on the cup...He focused on drinking more than the contents of the cup...
Breaking the bread and drinking the wine, which represents the spilled blood is the key...Breaking and drinking...
Why don't you guys eat raw hamburger??? Jesus said, 'my flesh is meat, eat it'...
You get eternal life from eating Jesus' flesh??? Once ought to be enough then, eh??? Why's it keep wearing out???
Stop second-guessing God, and go with what he gave you.
Not second guessing at all...Reading the rest of the scripture and seeing how it fits together...
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