Skip to comments.Genesis and the Religion of Primitive Man (Was monotheism the original religion of primitive man?)
Posted on 12/13/2009 7:33:11 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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From whence did Cain’s wife come?
For explanation regarding Cain’s wife, See here :
and Here :
Outside of the big 3 monotheist religions it looks to me like many religions have lesser gods under a single creator god.
From Cain’s mother and father.
French sociologist, writing in the 1920s and 1930s claimed that the primitive mind was “pre logical”, i.e., unable to reason from premise to conclusion and without any concept of cause and effect
there’s plenty of “modern” humans that fit this description.
Why are there two different days and accounts Written regarding the creation/formation of the flesh body?
There really are two MAIN competing thoughts when it comes to man’s religion.
One is ORIGINAL MONOTHEISM. Anthropologists who gravitate to this point of view believe that mankind everywhere originally believed in ONE GOD but slowly gravitated towards the polytheistic form as Shamanism took over and charismatic figures became god-like, causing people to follow and worship them. This eventually led to agnosticism and atheism.
The other major competing thought is EVOLVED MONOTHEISM. This school of thought believes that monotheism WAS NOT the original state of mankind’s religious belief. It slowly EVOLVED MUCH LATER.
This particular article supports the former ( ORIGINAL MONOTHEISM ). I am sharing this for discussion purposes so that you can share YOUR point of views ( which point of view do you support more and why ).
Kindly keep smart-alec and wise-guy one liner remarks to a minimum.
Would seem implausible...
The know rate of genetic mutations
generating various traits and diseases
would be difficult to explain over a
less than 10,000 year interval
Would seem more likely that the Genesis story
is a data point in a continuum,
instead of a origination point of an entire species
Call me a skeptic (along with C.S. Lewis and Tolkien)
that the Genesis story might be better described as
“The know rate of genetic mutations
generating various traits and diseases
would be difficult to explain over a
less than 10,000 year interval”
With God anything is possible.
According to the King James Bible, Cain’s wife came from a land called Nod, most probably what today is called outer Mongolia.
On the 6th day God created all the races...MANKIND.
On the 7th day God rested for the sake of His creation.
AFTER that on the 8th day God created Adam and Eve...hence, Israel.
There were 2000 years worth of people on thw earth BEFORE Adam and Eve ever made the scene. Oh, and Adam WAS NOT cain’s son.
To understand these things is to possess THE KEY OF DAVID.
He has given us His NAME; His NAME is YHvH. YHvH has provided us His Salvation Allah is not YHvH.
There is only one G-d. shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
to all who will call on His NAME
He has given us His NAME; His NAME is YHvH.
YHvH has provided us His Salvation
Allah is not YHvH.
That would seem to be a very long “Day”
ch 3 v. 8
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
OK, that helps somewhat
#15...Beautiful. YHVH is our life Yah’shua is our light!
And so we pray.
Personally I tend to think monotheism came first. As I said, most religions (outside the big 3) tend to have one creator God and many underling Gods.
It just seems to me that it would be most natural to believe in one creator God at first and then add others as time went on.
We could also look at it in our Christian context of God along with angels and demons. What we consider to be angels and demons could easily be seen a lesser Gods by someone with no knowledge of Christianity.
Oooops Adam was not cain’s FATHER.
Let’s not digress this thread into another debate about the age of the earth or evolution vs creation.
I’d really like this thread to be a discussion about what sort of religion most of mankind originally held in ancient times -— monotheism or polytheism.
The Ancient Hebrew texts and the Masorah tell us plainly that people began calling other things “god” during the time of Nimrod.
Nimrod tried to get people to worship him and ascribe their happiness to his government.
The first commie.
It only followed that soon people would fall from the original monotheism and begin to worship a multitude of gods as was convenient.
Sorry for digressing.
Matthew Chapter One 1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: 2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king.David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife of Uriah. 7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. 8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon, and Amon begot Josiah. 11 Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon. 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." 24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus. Matthew Chapter Two 1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him." 3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 So they said to him, "In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet: 6 'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel.' " 7 Then Herod, when he had secretly called the wise men, determined from them what time the star appeared. 8 And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found Him, bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also." 9 When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy. 11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12 Then, being divinely warned in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed for their own country another way. 13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, "Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him." 14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, "Out of Egypt I called My Son." 16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men. 17 Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying: 18 "A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation, weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, Refusing to be comforted, Because they are no more." 19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, "Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child's life are dead." 21 Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene." Matthew Chapter Three 1 In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!" 3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight.' " 4 And John himself was clothed in camel's hair, with a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him 6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?" 15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him. 16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
Luke Chapter One 1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, 3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, 4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed. 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. 7 But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and they were both well advanced in years. 8 So it was, that while he was serving as priest before God in the order of his division, 9 according to the custom of the priesthood, his lot fell to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. 10 And the whole multitude of the people was praying outside at the hour of incense. 11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb. 16 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, 'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,' and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." 18 And Zacharias said to the angel, "How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years." 19 And the angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and was sent to speak to you and bring you these glad tidings. 20 But behold, you will be mute and not able to speak until the day these things take place, because you did not believe my words which will be fulfilled in their own time." 21 And the people waited for Zacharias, and marveled that he lingered so long in the temple. 22 But when he came out, he could not speak to them; and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple, for he beckoned to them and remained speechless. 23 And so it was, as soon as the days of his service were completed, that he departed to his own house. 24 Now after those days his wife Elizabeth conceived; and she hid herself five months, saying, 25 "Thus the Lord has dealt with me, in the days when He looked on me, to take away my reproach among people." 26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!" 29 But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end." 34 Then Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I do not know a man?" 35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing will be impossible." 38 Then Mary said, "Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her. 39 Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord." 46 And Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. 49 For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name. 50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him From generation to generation. 51 He has shown strength with His arm; He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. 52 He has put down the mighty from their thrones, And exalted the lowly. 53 He has filled the hungry with good things, And the rich He has sent away empty. 54 He has helped His servant Israel, In remembrance of His mercy, 55 As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and to his seed forever." 56 And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her house. 57 Now Elizabeth's full time came for her to be delivered, and she brought forth a son. 58 When her neighbors and relatives heard how the Lord had shown great mercy to her, they rejoiced with her. 59 So it was, on the eighth day, that they came to circumcise the child; and they would have called him by the name of his father, Zacharias. 60 His mother answered and said, "No; he shall be called John." 61 But they said to her, "There is no one among your relatives who is called by this name." 62 So they made signs to his father--what he would have him called. 63 And he asked for a writing tablet, and wrote, saying, "His name is John." So they all marveled. 64 Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue loosed, and he spoke, praising God. 65 Then fear came on all who dwelt around them; and all these sayings were discussed throughout all the hill country of Judea. 66 And all those who heard them kept them in their hearts, saying, "What kind of child will this be?" And the hand of the Lord was with him. 67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: 68 "Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people, 69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David, 70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets, Who have been since the world began, 71 That we should be saved from our enemies And from the hand of all who hate us, 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers And to remember His holy covenant, 73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham: 74 To grant us that we, Being delivered from the hand of our enemies, Might serve Him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life. 76 And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, 77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins, 78 Through the tender mercy of our God, With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us; 79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, To guide our feet into the way of peace." 80 So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel. Luke Chapter Two 1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. 2 This census first took place while Quirinius was governing Syria. 3 So all went to be registered, everyone to his own city. 4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, 5 to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child. 6 So it was, that while they were there, the days were completed for her to be delivered. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. 8 Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger." 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying: 14 "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!" 15 So it was, when the angels had gone away from them into heaven, that the shepherds said to one another, "Let us now go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has come to pass, which the Lord has made known to us." 16 And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Babe lying in a manger. 17 Now when they had seen Him, they made widely known the saying which was told them concerning this Child. 18 And all those who heard it marveled at those things which were told them by the shepherds. 19 But Mary kept all these things and pondered them in her heart. 20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told them. 21 And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. 22 Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord 23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, "Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord"), 24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons." 25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said: 29 "Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, According to Your word; 30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation 31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, 32 A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of Your people Israel." 33 And Joseph and His mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him. 34 Then Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary His mother, "Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against 35 (yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed." 36 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; 37 and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem. 39 So when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city, Nazareth. 40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Thanks for the information.
No you are not digressing, you are ON TOPIC.
BTW, when you talk about Nimrod becoming a diety, which Ancient Hebrew texts are you referring to ? That definitely isn’t in the Hebrew Torah.
Acts Chapter Two 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.' 22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know-- 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. 26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. 27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.' 29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' 36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
I appreciate that! I have a large library, but I don’t have that one.
I been digging into this for 20 years, now. I’m gonna see if Amazon has one!
Star Traveler, You don’t have to quote scripture at me. Just refer to the Bible verses and I can read them for myself.
For now, I’d like this thread to be a discussion about Original Monotheism. It is interests me to learn what the original religious state of mankind is.
The gospels you quote are interesting, however that is thousands of years AFTER monotheism was already well established in Palestine.
Can you for instance show me what the original worship structure is in Egypt ( before they started worshipping RA or OSIRIS ?).
Oh boy did you read too much into my comment!
I meant to point out that modern humans are not so different from “primitive” humans in terms of mental ability. We think that because we have cars, planes, computers, tv, etc that we have these things because we have better brains. WRONG.
Primitive does not equate to impaired mental function. If anything, primitive man had enhanced mental functions for survival. ingenuity and creativity WITH A PURPOSE, is far more demanding than reading a book.
Put me in the “original monotheism” camp.
Star Traveler, You dont have to quote scripture at me. Just refer to the Bible verses and I can read them for myself.
Well, it wasn't for you, necessarily. It's just that the poster of an article ends up "getting" the comments, doncha know... LOL... even when they aren't directed at him... :-)
So, I was more talking to a thousand or more readers who will be seeing your thread and some of them can't even find Matthew or Luke..., much less even know where they put that pesky Bible :-)
The gospels you quote are interesting, however that is thousands of years AFTER monotheism was already well established in Palestine.
Actually monotheism started with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. And for generations everyone knew of the one and only God in the universe. It's only since we've gotten further and further away from what Adam and Eve knew directly and exclusively -- that these other human philosophies and inventions come about.
One of the things that many people don't realize unless they look carefully at the generations in the Bible, that those who lived right up to the time of the flood (close to it, within a generation of it) could still talk directly to Adam and get the information about God directly from him.
And also, another thing that people don't realize is that Abraham was also able to talk to Noah, the one who built the Ark, that saved 8 people from which the entire human race started up again.
So, at those particular times, people were not that far removed from the "direct knowledge" from those who were in direct contact with God and could speak from first hand experience (like Adam, and then like Noah and the flood).
Id really like this thread to be a discussion about what sort of religion most of mankind originally held in ancient times - monotheism or polytheism.
There’s no way to debate it or to prove one way or the other. It was(and is) as constant struggle between one religion or another. There are even struggles between two different monotheistic religions...even between two related sects of the same branch of the same monotheistic religion.
The endless struggle began the day that god created eve. Maybe before then.
The King James has the most available study tools that coincide with it, but it is full of small errors borne of the sopherim not understanding the languages well, but Genesis ch 10 speaks of Nimrod as a “mighty hunter” before the Lord. Yeah, he hunted souls of men from the Lord!
Josephus cleans this up very well in Antiquities Jud i. e. 4. 2, and there is a wonderful appendix written on this in Bullinger’s Companion Bible.
The Targum of Jonathan nd the Jerusalem Targum say Nimrod was mighty in rebellion against the Lord, and a hunter of the sons of men. He founded Babylon. The original tyrant.
Fascinating comments at end of review
It would seem each of the comments speak
more about the prejudices of the commenter than
the Book they comment upon.
A problem I've noted is that
each person sees what they have been conditioned to see
by their life experiences.
None the less, works of this type are helpful and useful
if only to point out, by inference, out own blindness
Science speaks to what is the Universe
It makes no statements as to why the Universe exists
Who made it, or if It has a Purpose
To do this requires something Science cannot do...
to see "Out of the Box"
A clear scriptural reading of Luke shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
will point the Yah'shua's conception
(Matt. 5:14; Jn. 8:12; 9:5; 11:9; 2 Co. 4:4)
and His birth at Sukkoth.
Genesis 4:1 — “And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.”
Gerald Schroeder bump.
Id really like this thread to be a discussion about what sort of religion most of mankind originally held in ancient times - monotheism or polytheism.
I would think that it would be clear, absolutely so, that when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden that they didn't think in terms of "religion" but in terms of "reality" and they knew that there was only one God, "in reality".
It was later on as men rebelled against God and also as their rebellions produced lies and "religions" to compete against the "reality" of the One God, that you have all the resulting confusion in the world.
As the Bible says, Satan is the father of lies and it's in his own interest to tell all sorts of lies about "diety" and to invent competing "religions"... :-)
The rebelling against god seems to me to have started with eve and the serpent. There was something there even before that or the serpent wouldn’t have had any success.
Chanukah is a great time for followers of the Jewish Messiah to celebrate. Sukkot as the date is supported by Elizabeth's Zacharias served as a high priest and John would have been born on Pesach. Factor in when Miriam visited her cousin Elizabeth, John (1:14) tells us that Yah'shua was made flesh The word "dwelt" in the Koine Greek is: Eight days after the beginning of Sukkot is Eight days after a Jewish male is born he is circumcised. After the Eighth day comes the the most Joyous day: Nine months back from Sukkot is Chanukah
The eight day Feast of Chanukah echoes of the eight days of the Feast of Tabernacles
It was most likely when the "light of the world"
(John 8:12) entered human form and tabernacled among us.
Feast of Tabernacles is the birth day of Yah'shua.
This question is answered when you believe and trust
the Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1.
Yah'shua's birth on Sukkot shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
(Sukkot is the Feast of Tabernacles or booths,
where we live in temporary shelters.
Sukkot is when YHvH took on a temporary
garment to be with His People
and to die as the Lamb of G-d on Pesach
in order to bring salvation to all
who would call on His Name:
(Romans 10:13 & Joel 2:32)
Yah'shua ( YHvH is become my salvation)).
Ps. 18:2, 46; 27:1; 35:9; 38:22; 88:1;
118:14; 119:174; 140:7; Isa. 12:2; 56:1;
61:10; Mic. 7:7; Hab. 3:18
pregnancy of John the Immerser.
The time sequence is outlined by the
Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1 with Zacharias.
based on his tribe, we know when he served
(1 Chronicles 24:7-18) and when he was
struck dumb and when John was conceived.
Most Jews believed that Elijah
would come at Pesach to announce
the coming of the Messiah (Malachi 4:5).
Elizabeth was six months pregnant (Luke 1:26)
Thus the timing of Yah'shua's birth can be ascertained.
and tabernacled among us.
σκηνόω Strong's G4637 - skēnoō
1) to fix one's tabernacle,
have one's tabernacle,
abide (or live) in a tabernacle (or tent),
2) to dwell
another Holy Feast Day called Shemini Atzeret.
Simchat Torah or
the rejoicing in the Torah (The Word of Elohim).
where the light entered the temple.
Sukkot as the date is supported by Elizabeth's
Zacharias served as a high priest and
John would have been born on Pesach.
Factor in when Miriam visited her cousin Elizabeth,
John (1:14) tells us that Yah'shua was made flesh
The word "dwelt" in the Koine Greek is:
Eight days after the beginning of Sukkot is
Eight days after a Jewish male is born he is circumcised.
After the Eighth day comes the the most Joyous day:
Nine months back from Sukkot is Chanukah
Not to mention that fruitcake, Lilith.
Lilith? Dont remember that one.
Edited from Wikipedia...
The Alphabet of Ben Sira is considered to be the oldest form of the story of Lilith as Adam's first wife. Whether this particular tradition is older is not known. Scholars tend to date the Alphabet between the 8th and 10th centuries AD. Its real author is anonymous, but it is falsely attributed to the sage Ben Sira. The amulets used against Lilith that were thought to derive from this tradition are in fact, dated as being much older. The concept of Eve having a predecessor is not exclusive to the Alphabet, and is not a new concept, as it can be found in Genesis Rabbah. However, the idea that Lilith was the predecessor is exclusive to the Alphabet. ...
The idea that Adam had a wife prior to Eve may have developed from an interpretation of the Book of Genesis and its dual creation accounts; while Genesis 2:22 describes God's creation of Eve from Adam's rib, an earlier passage, 1:27, already indicates that a woman had been made: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The Alphabet text places Lilith's creation after God's words in Genesis 2:18 that "it is not good for man to be alone"; in this text God forms Lilith out of the clay from which he made Adam but she and Adam bicker. Lilith claims that since she and Adam were created in the same way they were equal and she refuses to submit to him.
What is it, in particular, that makes a difference of the fourteen days between one of the two?
I’m not sure I see where those fourteen days are specifically accounted for...
Im not sure I see where those fourteen days are specifically accounted for...
Chanukah is always the 25th of Kislev. Last year the 25th of Kislev was the 22nd of Dec. In 2007 it was the 5th of December.
I think I understand. shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Chanukah is always the 25th of Kislev.
Last year the 25th of Kislev was the 22nd of Dec.
In 2007 it was the 5th of December.