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Ecumenical agreement between Eastern Catholics, other ‘St. Thomas Christians’
Catholic Culture ^ | December 18, 2009

Posted on 12/18/2009 11:02:49 AM PST by NYer

The bishops of Kerala-- the home of the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church-- have reached an agreement with Syrian Jacobite and Syrian Orthodox leaders to share churches outside Kerala for Sunday Mass and to consider sharing cemeteries and the use of priests at funerals. All four churches trace their origin to the evangelization of St. Thomas the Apostle.

Underscoring the agreement’s ramifications beyond India, the Catholic delegation was led by Bishop Brian Farrell, LC, the secretary of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity since 2002.

Although the sacred liturgy in both the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church is celebrated in Malayalam, the former uses the Chaldean rite, while the latter uses the Antiochan rite. The Syrian Jacobite Church and the Syrian Orthodox Church are not among the Eastern Orthodox churches that ceased communion with the Holy See in 1054; rather, they are among the Oriental Orthodox churches that ceased communion with the Holy See following the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon in 451.

Source(s): these links will take you to other sites, in a new window.



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; History; Ministry/Outreach; Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: chaldean; falseunion; saintthomas; stthomas; thomastheapostle

1 posted on 12/18/2009 11:02:52 AM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...

Catholic/Orthodox ping!


2 posted on 12/18/2009 11:04:13 AM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

Wow!


3 posted on 12/18/2009 1:45:09 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: NYer
A thread about Saint Thomas from 2002:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/810969/posts
Celebrating the Apostle's Coming : 1950th Anniversary of St. Thomas in India


4 posted on 12/18/2009 2:41:31 PM PST by Dajjal (Obama is an Ericksonian NLP hypnotist.)
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To: NYer
The Oriental Orthodox referred to here are non-Chalcedonian Christians and are otherwise known of Miaphysites.

The sharing of churches and priests for funerals and weddings is not at all uncommon in Lebanon, as we know. By economia, Orthodox Christians may receive communion and other scraments in an Oriental Orthodox Church or from an Oriental Orthodox priest and vice versa since it was decided that their understanding of the natures of Christ is the same as ours (and yours) though expressed differently.

I would be very surprised if there was any de jure intercommunion going on, but maybe. It's happening in Lebanon de facto today but there the beliefs at least of the Melkites and the Orthodox are identical and those of the younger Maronite theologians are increasingly less Latin and more Eastern, though I have to say that I am always surprised that there is any intercommunion between the Orthodox and the Maronites even de facto in light of the Maronites' wholesale adoption of Latin theology.

5 posted on 12/19/2009 5:20:18 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; verga
Good morning to you, K!

I am always surprised that there is any intercommunion between the Orthodox and the Maronites even de facto in light of the Maronites' wholesale adoption of Latin theology.

Nothing like starting the day by launching a salvo at a Catholic Church. As you well know, the Maronite Church is the only one among the Eastern Churches that has always maintained its bonds with Rome and the Successor of St. Peter. In fact, in 517, as controversy continued to rage over the decisions of the Council of Chalcedon (451) regarding Christ as “true God and true Man,” persecution of the Maronites broke out which resulted in the martyrdom of 350 Maronite monks on account of their defense of the Council’s decrees. Even today, on the feast of Saints Peter and Paul, our liturgy prays: “O Lord, preserve your children from all error or deviation, grant us to live and die proclaiming: ‘Our faith is the faith of Peter, the faith of Peter is our faith!’”

Where Peter is, there is the church!

6 posted on 12/19/2009 5:43:01 AM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer; kosta50

“Nothing like starting the day by launching a salvo at a Catholic Church.”

A salvo at the Catholic Church?????????????? Since when was the innovative dogmatic theology of the Latin Church proclaimed since the Great Schism accepted by the Orthodox Churches? Or for that matter, since when did the Latin Church rescind its heretical dogmas of the IC and Papal Infallibility so as to believe the exact same things as the Orthodox? My salvo, if that’s what it was, was aimed just as forcefully at the Orthodox who give communion to the Latinized Maronites.

The Maronite Church, as you well know, is more Latin than Rome, though, thank God, that’s changing. But the Maronites have not rejected the Papal innovations of the past centuries and therefore I continue to be very surprised that the Orthodox in Lebanon allow Maronites to receive communion in Orthodox Churches and vice versa.

Tell me something, NYer. Is it fair to say that for you and the Latinized, N.O. Maronites, the Eucharist is a tool to create unity with the Latin Church rather than the perfect symbol of unity of Faith? Is that why you would encourage people who don’t accept Rome’s innovative, even heretical, theology to receive communion in a Maronite Church or for Maronites to accept communion from the hands of a schismatic Orthodox priest who scorns submission to the Pope of Rome?

We do not believe the exact same things. Until we do, it cheapens the Eucharist to use it as a tool to foster submission to Rome.


7 posted on 12/19/2009 6:07:46 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Kolokotronis; NYer

Based on what canon are these Churches sharing priests and more? Sound’s more like a clown circus to me, but nothing really surprises me any more. It’s a make-believe world.


9 posted on 12/19/2009 10:28:01 AM PST by kosta50
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To: verga
When you live to shoot off your mouth don't be surprised when the real Catholics smack you

I may be wrong, but I believe a REAL Catholic would turn the other cheek when someone is shooting their mouth at them. They would NOT "smack" them.

10 posted on 12/19/2009 10:49:13 AM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: getoffmylawn
I may be wrong, but I believe a REAL Catholic would turn the other cheek when someone is shooting their mouth at them. They would NOT "smack" them.

A real Catholic would only physically strike if he/she was physically threatened. If an attack is verbal, calmly use true apologetics and correct the error. It's really coming back as an art.

11 posted on 12/19/2009 11:12:56 AM PST by Desdemona (True Christianity requires open hearts and open minds - not blind hatred.)
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To: getoffmylawn
I may be wrong, but I believe a REAL Catholic would turn the other cheek when someone is shooting their mouth at them. They would NOT "smack" them.

A real Catholic would only physically strike if he/she was physically threatened. If an attack is verbal, calmly use true apologetics and correct the error. It's really coming back as an art.

12 posted on 12/19/2009 11:13:00 AM PST by Desdemona (True Christianity requires open hearts and open minds - not blind hatred.)
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To: Desdemona

Sorr for the double post. I’m fending off a dog who can’t control his licker.


13 posted on 12/19/2009 11:14:24 AM PST by Desdemona (True Christianity requires open hearts and open minds - not blind hatred.)
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To: kosta50

“Based on what canon are these Churches sharing priests and more?”

No canon, Kosta, no canon at all; in fact, its a violation of a number of canons. From the Latin pov, however, that makes no difference as long as one submits to Rome in some fashion. Look at the Melkites, for example. They do not embrace the innovation of the IC and while their Patriarch Gregory II Youssef did sign the Vatican I document, he did so with the prior reservation of “...”all rights, privileges and prerogatives of the Patriarchs of the Eastern Churches being respected” which vitiated whatever “consent” he had given. Within the past 20 years the Melkites have come close to a complete break with Rome and reunion with Antioch (guess who queered that!) and yet, so long as the Melkites pretend to submit, Rome is happy. The Maronites, on the other hand, might as well be Roman Catholics. Their Westernized liturgy finds its heritage in the NO Mass of Vatican II, though it was re-written in 1992 to incorporate more ancient Maronite anaphora which cannot be anything other than a good thing. Beyond that, the dogma and mindset (unlike all the other Eastern churches in communion with Rome) of the Maronite Church are thoroughly Roman, so Roman in fact that their married priests are not allowed to serve in countries with a predominant Roman Church.

Now Kosta, you tell me why a church like that would want to intercommune with Orthodox Christians? I can guess.


14 posted on 12/19/2009 11:37:50 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: verga
The EO (Eastern Orthodox) on this forum in various threads expose their spiritual bankruptcy and mendacity with each and every comment. The spiritual and cultural contributions of the EO since 1054 are severely wanting. In the 20th century the Russian Church branch, operated by the KGB and the Greek counterpart attended by those who come disguised as empty space, provide testimony to the vibrancy of their beloved institutions. Yet these EO hypocrites have the unmitigated audacity to question and admonish the intellectual traditions of Catholicism.
Truth be known, the EO are insanely jealous of Catholicism and their only retort is to whine about the Fourth Crusade and the Rape of Istanbul, oh yes Constantinople. Until EO can reestablish intellectual and spiritual vibrancy, they are compelled to inhabit the dust bins of history. These spiritually destitute don't like the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception or the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility yet they are intellectually unable to refute these doctrines in a scholarly fashion. The EO has been sentenced to a time warp ever since 1054. Let the secular humanistic crowd have their way with this wicked bunch .
17 posted on 12/19/2009 2:51:40 PM PST by bronx2
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To: getoffmylawn
Wow! You sound like one of those whack job protestants with their "God told me to skin you alive" garbage. You don't sound like a Roman Catholic to me at all. Maybe you need to study up on what you claim your faith is. You may find you're actually more a Protestant then a Catholic. Your posts don't seem to contain much Roman Catholicism.

Actually I am a re-vert to the Catholic Church from "Wack job" protestantism. I have 36 hours of Graduate level Credit from a Seminary in New York. I know more about my faith Than 90% of the the usual pew sitters. I am not a nice person, but I am a staunch defender of the Catholic Church.

You need to understand that there are certain people that attack the Catholic Church in a relentless manner. They come in all guises from United States Senators and Speakers of the House, to Fundamentalist Prots and Quasi Eastern Orthodox like K.

Would you have taken St. Michael to task for driving Satan into the pit? Maybe you need to ask yourself why you are not willing to go the extra mile in defense of the Church.

18 posted on 12/19/2009 3:58:37 PM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: bronx2
the EO are insanely jealous of Catholicism...

LOL! What a hoot! This the first time I've ever heard this one! Let's see what can we be most jealous of....hmmm... the cover up of all those child molesting priests?... or perhaps its we're jealous of all those Protestant groups that splintered away from Rome... yeah yeah... that must be it! Boy... I wish we could be more like you guys! :D rofl!

20 posted on 12/19/2009 7:16:03 PM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: verga
Maybe you need to ask yourself why you are not willing to go the extra mile in defense of the Church.

This is a classic! Is your "Church" so weak that it needs you to defend it? Maybe you should consider changing "Churches" because any "God" that is so weak it needs humans to defend it, isn't really worthy of much praise or honor now, is it?

I got news for ya. God doesn't need to be defended by any man.

21 posted on 12/19/2009 7:22:01 PM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: getoffmylawn
And resorting to An Ad Hominem attack means you have lost the argument.

Good job that only took you two posts.

22 posted on 12/20/2009 4:00:32 AM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: Desdemona

lol


23 posted on 12/20/2009 4:12:20 AM PST by monkapotamus
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To: getoffmylawn
Let us examine the spiritual and intellectual heritage of the EO in this country. What great universities, law schools, medical schools, educational systems have the EO established. NONE. The spiritual and intellectual accomplishments of the EO in this country are almost nonexistent. Wait, there were some financial scandals involving the ROCOR (Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia). I went to school with the EO and they were always moaning about Catholics based on nothing but pure jealousy. At least the WASPS contributed to the advancement of this nation while the EO are still mired in the cellars of history.
Speaking about pedophilia, I heard that Mt Athos was the Greek farm system for its advancement. Would you care to comment on that idea.
24 posted on 12/20/2009 6:36:15 AM PST by bronx2
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To: verga

Psh. You’re credibility went down to zero when you claimed you’ve been given “permission to smack” other people. Bye bye!


25 posted on 12/20/2009 9:52:15 AM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: verga
And resorting to An Ad Hominem attack means you have lost the argument.

Can't help but notice you opened with one. Guess you knew you'd lost when you woke up this morning, eh? :-D

27 posted on 12/20/2009 3:56:03 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: verga; Kolokotronis; getoffmylawn
Than 90% of the the usual pew sitters. I am not a nice person, but I am a staunch defender of the Catholic Church.

Yes, we see.

However, Christians usually at least try to be a nice person, according to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Maybe you should read up on Him?

28 posted on 12/20/2009 3:59:08 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib
Can't help but notice you opened with one. Guess you knew you'd lost when you woke up this morning, eh? :-D K is a Quasi EO he was raised in an EO and Catholic home with a grounding in both Traditions. I made an abbreviated statement of fact. How would you refer to him?
29 posted on 12/20/2009 5:01:29 PM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: verga
How would you refer to him?

Politely.

30 posted on 12/21/2009 6:12:42 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib
Matt 21: 12-13

Mark 11:15-17

31 posted on 12/21/2009 9:40:09 AM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: verga

James 3:10


32 posted on 12/21/2009 10:27:28 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib

When he stops attacking I can stop defending. as always it is up to him. You might want to talk to him.


33 posted on 12/21/2009 12:16:44 PM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: verga

He doesn’t appear to have even spoken to you on this thread.

It appears that you opened by attacking him and now claim he attacked you first.

Are you familiar with the term “Projecting?”


34 posted on 12/21/2009 1:51:38 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib
Are you familiar with the term “Projecting?”

Isn't that kind of like when someone who has no vested interest in a topic spends more time on it than the parties that do. /Sarc

35 posted on 12/21/2009 2:15:45 PM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: verga
Isn't that kind of like when someone who has no vested interest in a topic spends more time on it than the parties that do.

No, it's like when you project your own failings on others, such as accusing them of attacks while ignoring the fact that you were the first to attack. /Reality!

36 posted on 12/21/2009 5:28:49 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib
I guess you didn't see the /Sarc tag at the end of my post or you want to keep losing and argument that K already gave up on.
37 posted on 12/22/2009 3:39:07 AM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: verga

I haven’t lost anything!

LOL!

But you certainly are looking foolish accusing others of behaving as badly as you’ve done.

Please, continue at your leisure!

LOL!

And I guess you missed the /Reality tag at the end of my post.

Think on it for a while.


38 posted on 12/22/2009 3:45:01 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib
Since you didn't write any thing of any import, I just repeat my last post (and keep repeating it until you give up in frustration:

I guess you didn't see the /Sarc tag at the end of my post or you want to keep losing and argument that K already gave up on.

BTW I will away from computer access for about a wee, so just let you banal replies pile up and I will get to them when I return.

Have a Merry Christmas.

39 posted on 12/22/2009 7:05:56 PM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: verga

Wow, you’re really obsessed with this.

Kinda scary.

I guess projection is the least of your worries.


40 posted on 12/24/2009 1:53:45 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: getoffmylawn; verga; Alex Murphy
Wow! You sound like one of those whack job protestants with their "God told me to skin you alive" garbage. You don't sound like a Roman Catholic to me at all. Maybe you need to study up on what you claim your faith is. You may find you're actually more a Protestant then a Catholic. Your posts don't seem to contain much Roman Catholicism.

FR is an anti-Catholic site, huh?

41 posted on 12/24/2009 2:28:06 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vayo'mer Yosef 'el-'echayv "'Ani Yosef, ha`od 'Avi chay?" Ve-lo' yakhelu 'echayve la`anot 'oto . . .)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

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