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Can Joel Osteen Help You Pay Your Bills?
CNN ^ | 12/18/09 | Christine Romans

Posted on 12/19/2009 6:37:28 PM PST by marshmallow

Houston, Texas (CNN) -- Joel Osteen strides into the former Compaq Center. Some 20,000 people are standing and singing. Purple lights softly pulse across the ceiling, and mist floats around two giant screens flashing words to the songs.

It's not a pulpit but a podium. It's not an altar but a stage. There is no cross. Instead a huge globe spins, and two massive bubbling creeks flank the stage. A lighting system softens distant corners of the massive arena and spreads colored light and smoke in strategic spots. Somehow, the space that will hold 40,000-plus on Sunday morning doesn't feel like a sports arena.

In the control room, producers watch multiple camera angles and feeds.

Smiling broadly, Osteen bounds up the few stairs to the stage, closes his eyes, lifts his hands and leads a prayer.

"God, I'm going to start this week off in faith. Expecting your goodness. Expecting to have a blessed and a prosperous week. Amen. Well, God bless you. Give him your very best today."

Welcome to Sunday morning at Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. It's reportedly the nation's largest congregation and probably one of the most diverse places in America. One third of these churchgoers are Hispanic, one-third African-American and a quarter white. There are dozens of nationalities.

Osteen will give this sermon twice. He later said he knows immediately which segments to edit together into a sermon that will air on television to millions three weeks later.

Between services, he is signing his most recent book in the lobby, just past the bookstore that is one of the highest-grossing Christian bookstores in America.

His wife, Victoria, is co-pastor of the church and a best-selling author in her own right. In fact, the Osteens are not paid to be pastors at Lakewood, according to .............

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: moapb; tbnhucksters
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To: Jim 0216

You tell me not to judge and right after tell me I serve a weak God. I serve Jesus Christ-WHO WAS AND IS GOD.

You came very close to calling Joel Osteen a profit.

Sorry, but I see no difference in the Osteen cult club members than the Obama cult club members. They both start with an “O” and the members follow blindly on words they think they here.

My mother supported Jim Bakker when she could barely buy food. I tried to tell her he was a phony. She lived to see what he was. The same with Jimmy Swaggert. He could cry when he needed to. They taught the plan of salvation and it was still all about the money.

If you want to hear a real man of God listen to Pastor Johnny Hunt from the Woodstock Baptist Church in Woodstock, Georgia. He’s also president of the SBC. He’s been offered T.V. and radio shows and he’s turned them down. He has nothing to do with the money collected at the church. In fact he will tell you the only check he sees is his own. He preaches the plan of salvation and tells you when you’re wrong. And he has stated that Olsteen is not from God. (I’m paraphrasing but I was there when he said it.) With Joel Osteen you can never do wrong. If he told you that you did wrong you’d stop buying his books. He doesn’t want to offend anyone. And that “world” he stands behind is his marketing area.

And again, what about those eyes blinking 80 times a minute? He’s a liar.

I pray someday you will find a real church.


181 posted on 12/22/2009 7:35:02 AM PST by Terry Mross (We need a "Second Sons of Liberty".)
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To: Terry Mross
I'm sorry about your mother. Man will always disappoint. It won't help you or anyone else, however to go around condemning God's people and his anointed servants. Your Baptist friend's opinions notwithstanding, God is using Joel Osteen and T.V. in mighty and powerful ways in these last moments before his return. Your accusations and condemnation of Osteen are unfounded, unsubstantiated, and appears to be in league with the Accuser of the Brethern. We need to be ready for our Lord's return with all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, put away from (us), with all malice. Ephesians 4:31.
182 posted on 12/22/2009 7:56:26 AM PST by Jim 0216
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To: Terry Mross

Very true!


183 posted on 12/22/2009 8:01:34 AM PST by Steelfish
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To: Jim 0216

I believe,too, the end is near. And I don’t see Osteen helping anyone find salvation. There is one way to the Kingdom of God and that’s by acccepting Jesus Christ as Lord. Osteen is making people feel good about the here and now. I’m not worried about the here and now. I’m worried more about the there and then. I can get what he’s selling in an anti depression pill. And he is selling. He buys time on T.V. then sells his wares. No different from Robert Tilton. They tell you if you give you’ll be happy. And they all get around to that eventually. It’s called an infomercial. No different from Ronco. In fact, it’s almost identical. SET IT AND FORGET IT.

Nice communicating to you.


184 posted on 12/22/2009 9:32:16 AM PST by Terry Mross (We need a "Second Sons of Liberty".)
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To: caww

Sorry .. you missed the point.


185 posted on 12/23/2009 8:02:11 PM PST by CyberAnt (Healthcare is not a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution)
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To: caww

Fine, you can read my experiences in my book, “Miracles Upon Miracles.


186 posted on 12/23/2009 8:04:18 PM PST by CyberAnt (Healthcare is not a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution)
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To: Terry Mross

Sorry to disappoint you .. but Jesus death on the cross cancelled the devil’s authority. It’s just that most people who claim to be Christians have never been taught what their rights are as Christians .. so the devil continues to beat them up.

Jesus told us, “My people perish for lack of knowledge”.


187 posted on 12/23/2009 8:16:24 PM PST by CyberAnt (Healthcare is not a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution)
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To: Dallas

Excuse me .. Abraham’s Blessings are mine. You need to study Paul’s teachings more. While we have a better covenant with Jesus, a covenant based on better promises, the blessings God gave to Abraham were given to us.

If you don’t know that .. I’m sorry for you.

So, the curses and blessings are still available to every man. Now, YOU choose (and that’s the part you don’t like).

Oh .. and I wasn’t being “glib”, because I don’t consider discussing the Gospel and Jesus as something I’m “glib” about. If you didn’t want to have a serious conversation, then you should have just avoided by post. You know, it was another one of those “YOU” choose moments.


188 posted on 12/23/2009 8:24:56 PM PST by CyberAnt (Healthcare is not a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution)
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To: presently no screen name

Great comments, thank you!


189 posted on 12/23/2009 8:26:52 PM PST by CyberAnt (Healthcare is not a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution)
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To: marshmallow

I wish he could. :)


190 posted on 12/23/2009 10:37:01 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: CyberAnt

Man, you are so brainwashed. I was going to try to be nice but this takes the cake. “Claim” to be Christians? You should know. That describes scam artist Osteen to a “T”.

Jesus died on the cross for mankind’s sins. Not to take the devil’s authority away. If that was the case everything would be hunky dory. Oh, wait, in the Osteen cult world everything IS hunky dory.

Need to be taught? Oh, yeah, that’s the case in your cult, too, isn’t it. You need to be taught. You’re lucky Osteen got hold of your brain before David Koresh.

So, finally, one last chance to help you out: “Beware of wolves in Sheep’s clothing” and “Many will come in my name”. Think about that or don’t waste your time responding to me. Waste your time worshipping at the cross of Osteen. Oh, I forgot. He doesn’t have one. Worship at the GLOBE of Joel and Victoria.

And Merry Osteen!


191 posted on 12/24/2009 12:10:58 AM PST by Terry Mross (We need a "Second Sons of Liberty".)
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To: Dallas

“I’m only taking issue with your mindset that God’s covenant with the nation of Israel somehow affects you as a Christian.”

The covenant with Israel doesn’t specifically affect us. It was a type and shadow of what was to come. Each Christian has a covenant, a better one, now instead of the covenant for the nation.

“through Him all the nations would be blessed. The nation of Israel was only the vessel.”

Yes, Israel was the covenant nation where the savior was born. But it is much more than that. God wanted Israel to bring the rest of the nations to jealousy, i.e., they would become jealous because of Isral’s prosperity as a nation and Israel could teach the other nations that the prosperity was a side benefit of obedience to God (see Deut. 28, Deut. 8).

“The law given later at Sinai do NOT affect the promises made to Abraham. “

I don’t know what your point is here.

“Thus, our justification comes solely by faith in Christ Jesus.”

Yep.

“I disagree that Israel ever prospered in a secular way. Solomon called his own accomplishments vanity. (Eccl 2:10-11)”

Go back and read the part where God says that he would give Solomon great rewards of wealth because he asked first for wisdom. How much more specific can you get than that? Solomon decided that all the wealth was vanity after living in disobedience but that doesn’t change the fact that God blessed him with it.

I can’t imagine how you could possibly say Israel never prospered in a secular way. Are you saying they were poor? The only time they were ever poor in the OT was when they had disobeyed and they became a debtor nation, and then they got conquered and taken into slavery.

There are tons of examples of people prospering in a secular way in the OT (and NT). There are many instances where it specifically says that God blessed them and prospered them. It’s part of the promises of the covenant that God made with them. He said that they could choose blessing or curse, life or death, and then He went on to explain the physical (secular) blessings available in very specific terms. I could point all this out to you but you seem to have a good knowledge of the scriptures, so I imagine you are familiar with many of these.

As a father, I like to give good gifts to my children — as long as they are not living in rebellion. As a heavenly father, God gave the gift of His Son, but also said He delights in giving good gifts to His children.

Why are so many Christians afraid to believe that God wants them to prosper in EVERY area of their life? There are so many verses in the Bible which state this as a desire of God. It seems so obvious that it is one of the characteristics of our heavenly father.

And there is no such thing as ONLY being prosperous financially. People who only prosper financially without having their soul prosper in the same measure wind up hurting themselves and others.


192 posted on 12/24/2009 6:21:53 AM PST by webstersII
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To: CyberAnt

“So, the curses and blessings are still available to every man. Now, YOU choose (and that’s the part you don’t like).”

I can’t understand why people who don’t accept that God wants to bless them financially are wasting time discussing it. They aren’t going to receive anything anyway.

Maybe they just don’t want anyone else to receive anything, either. If you can have a ‘Prosperity Cult’ does that mean you can also have a ‘Poverty Cult’? It’s for people who believe that God expects for you to take a vow of poverty in order to be a Christian, because it’s more spiritual to be poor (shh. Don’t tell any of those rich men of God who were held up as examples in the Bible that they weren’t poor enough to really be spiritual).


193 posted on 12/24/2009 6:35:27 AM PST by webstersII
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To: marshmallow
As the saying goes...."no cross, no Christ".

Interesting you should say that (I've never heard it before).

Several years ago for about a year, I attended a Baptist church that a friend encouraged me to join. Other than the occasional funeral or wedding, I had never had any affiliation with religion in my entire life.

The one thing that was most noticeable at this church was that there was no cross inside......I asked my friend why and he tried to explain to me that the church worshipped Jesus and not a symbol which he said the cross was.......

After seeing all the scandals within the Catholic churches, the money grubbing Baptist televangelists such as Jimmy Baker, Swagert and all of them, there is a lot of doubt and cynicism in my mind about the legitimacy of churches........I met the pastor of my friend's church once and would watch him leave the stage after his sermons. There was something about his eyes that just wasn't right and sorta creeped me out........

I know that's not a fair thing to say but nevertheless that's how I felt and one of the reasons I stopped going to that church.

I don't know what a good church is or what to look for in a church. Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists,....I know people in all of them and they're all good people.....I just don't know what's right for me or even if a church is the answer for me.

194 posted on 12/24/2009 6:45:14 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (I want a hoochie-mama for Christmas, only a hoochie-mama will do............)
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To: Hot Tabasco

....I forgot to mention that the best manager I ever worked for who not only had great managerial skills but compassion for his employees was a Mormon....not that that matters any.


195 posted on 12/24/2009 6:47:41 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (I want a hoochie-mama for Christmas, only a hoochie-mama will do............)
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To: Hot Tabasco
the money grubbing Baptist televangelists such as Jimmy Baker, Swagert and all of them, there is a lot of doubt and cynicism in my mind about the legitimacy of churches........

Swaggert and Baker were not "Baptist".

Looks like your thoughts have "legitimacy" issues.

196 posted on 12/24/2009 6:53:10 AM PST by sausageseller (If you want to cut your own throat, don't come to me for a bandage. M, Thatcher)
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To: Terry Mross; All

Hmmmm ..?? Looks like you forgot, “... and Jesus took back the keys of hell and death.”

Who did Jesus take the keys from - THE DEVIL.

Guess you missed that scripture.

And ... just because I believe differently than you, you have to claim that I’m “brainwashed” .. just to excuse your unbelief ..??


197 posted on 12/24/2009 6:57:40 AM PST by CyberAnt (Healthcare is not a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution)
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To: sausageseller
Swaggert and Baker were not "Baptist".

Forgive my error, I always thought they were.....

198 posted on 12/24/2009 6:58:43 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (I want a hoochie-mama for Christmas, only a hoochie-mama will do............)
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To: webstersII; All

The real problem is that this “poverty mentality” has been preached from the pulpit for years. If you are properous, then you can’t be HOLY! Some people have never heard about Henry Ford, and other notables who helped to build America - who were devout Christians. They certainly prospered mightly. Maybe they didn’t do all they could have with their monies, but that’s not for me to decide - God will be their judge.

I thank God everyday that I believe God sent Jesus to, “... give life and that more abundantly”. Abraham was blessed “abundantly” .. because he simply believed God. Abraham wasn’t perfect, and he failed many times, but Abraham just picked himself up and went on with God.

And .. when I read, “... above all that you may proper and be in health, even as your soul prospers”, I took that scripture for myself and I have received 2 fairly major healings in my life: removal of eye tumors (without any kind of surgery or medical intervention), and a complete healing from hypoglecemia (low blood sugar). I even heard a preacher say that he’d never heard of God healing that affliction. It’s these kinds of statements that cause people to put God in a box and inform God what He can and cannot do.

I know that’s what offends people about Joel Osteen - when all Joel is trying to do is get people to have faith in God’s ability to help them - no matter what their issue - and that God WANTS TO BLESS THEM - instead of squish them because they’re not perfect.

And .. one of the real problems is that people don’t know how to talk to God. But that is what God really wants .. He wants us to communicate with HIM.


199 posted on 12/24/2009 7:27:29 AM PST by CyberAnt (Healthcare is not a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution)
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To: marshmallow
I liked Rev. Ike's theory about the poor.

" The best way to help the poor is not to be one."

200 posted on 12/24/2009 7:31:59 AM PST by csvset
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