Skip to comments.Rex Rammell's Call to 'Elders of Israel' Meeting Stirs Controversy
Posted on 12/26/2009 8:49:03 AM PST by Colofornian
It's a call to the Elders of Israel.
Idaho's gubernatorial candidate Rex Rammell exclusively invites Mormon men to a meeting where he'll discuss Joseph Smith's prophecies regarding the constitution.
Critics say it's merely a way to use his faith to further his campaign.
Rammell believes it's his duty to rally the troops, his fellow LDS elders who he claims responsible for saving the nation's constitution.
But some say his Mormons-only invitation may end up hurting him when it's time to go to the polls.
Blurring the lines between politics and religion, that's what some call Rex Rammell's exclusive Elders of Israel" conference.
"I think it's appropriate and I will continue to speak strongly to get down on their knees and ask God to save this country because if we don't do something, it's going to be lost," explained Republican Gubernatorial candidate Rex Rammell.
Rammell says it's about the battle to save the nation's crippling constitution.
He stands by Joseph Smith's prophecy which says, "The Latter-Day Saints, the Elders of Israel, will step forward to its rescue and save it."
However, Rammell's mixture of religion and politics doesn't sit well with some who argue he's offending other faiths.
"I'm tired of people telling me that I can't bring god and the constitution into my campaign speeches. I absolutely disagree with that,"
"He's so concerned about one type of branch. He'd be hurt in the polls but I think he can do what he wants," said David Harris of Idaho Falls.
Not only is the meeting exclusively for Mormon men, Rammell says his forum won't have enough room for LDS women and it's the elders' duty to tell their wives.
"Do you think that's a little discriminatory?" asked Danielle. "I hope not. I think the LDS women will understand and the prophecy which I'm talking about is about the LDS elders, to take a stand and save the constitution," explained Rammell.
"I'm sure he's offending other people. I'm slow to take offense. I find him amusing, what really caught my eye was he was sorry there wasn't room for the women which I wonder if any LDS women will take an offense to that?" Earline Reid.
Rammell tells us he's not ashamed or trying to hide anything in these meetings.
Further, hoping to fix the state, the nation and stand up for the country's constitution.
We called the Public Affairs Department of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."
A spokesman released this statement to us.
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is politically neutral and does not endorse or promote any candidate party or platform.
Accordingly, we hope that the campaign practices of political candidates would not suggest that their candidacy is supported by or connected to the church."
Rammell is running against incumbent C.L. "Butch" Otter and Ada County Commissioner Sharon Ullman in Idaho's GOP primary election next May.
This gubernatorial candidate to "gentiles" (non-Mormons): "Sorry, we don't want you at this meeting."
(So much for a few FReeper Lds and their allies who want us to meet in harmony on behalf of so-called "conservative causes.")
Also: No women allowed.
From the article: Rammell says it's about the battle to save the nation's crippling constitution. He stands by Joseph Smith's prophecy which says, "The Latter-Day Saints, the Elders of Israel, will step forward to its rescue and save it."
Two comments by LDS general authorities (one by a "prophet" and another by an "apostle" are especially interesting for their religious-political overtones):
John Taylor was with Joseph Smith when he died -- surviving a wound -- and went on to become an LDS "prophet":
The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto [so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862)
LDS apostle Orson Hyde: What the world calls Mormonism will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)
So, don't you all look forward to when this LDS apostle's and "prophets'" extended "prophesies" will come into fruition? Why, supposedly "Mormonism will rule every nation" because they will be our "religious...and political" saviors!
Idaho is one of those states that I was hoping to escape to when retirement came about (escape from a blue to a red state), but I don’t want Utah north; will the Feds have to send the U.S. Army to mormonland again in order to get them to straighten out and not include their strange religious and social beliefs from being incorporated into the public sector? Sheesh. I had worries regarding mohammedism’s growing influence in the U.S. and now we’ve got to worry about our own home grown cults.
And the real story here is the reporter for this article. Danielle Grant. Doubles as weekend weather girl. She's so cute...
This article is nuts. What’s with the consternation regarding women? Since when does any church have female members among their “elders”. Traditionally, old men collect the collection plates and pass the bread and wine. Why should mormons be any different?
Where have I seen that before . . . . . ;P
I must have missed the part where the 1st Amendment was repealed for people running for office.
The purpose of the meeting called by Rex Rammell, is to find a way to get the United States government to start following the constitution. I am sorry to hear that you worry about that.
Calling star Kolob.....calling star Kolob....
Come in, Elohim.......
Of course given the “prophecies” and such that surround this group and this meeting, any sane and normal American should would look at this as at least a little “odd”.
Taking Joesph Smith record on prophecy, maybe we should take this with a large dose of salt
Of course, I'm all for saving the Constitution, but find it highly unlikely Joey Smith will have anything to do with it.
I don’t think Butch has anything to worry about.
The prophecy is that "the whole of America will be made the Zion of God"...the "Zion" of the mormons is/was a theocratic government...is that "saving the Constitution"? Don't overlook the fact that the White Horse Prophecy is not about saving America as the Founding Fathers made it.
"Dominated by religious leaders who believed that every aspect of life, including political and economic matters, should be in harmony with theocratic principles of the Kingdom of God and who defended the practice of polygamy, the Latter-day Saints almost invited criticism and persecutions."
|The White Horse Prophecy|
A prophecy by Joseph Smith of coming calamities in the western hemisphere
The following is a copy from the Journal of Elder John J. Roberts, of Paradise, Utah.
On about the 6th of May, 1843, a Grand Review of the Nauvoo Legion was held in Nauvoo. The Prophet Joseph Smith complimented them for their good discipline and evolutions performed. The weather being hot, he called for a glass of water. With the glass of water in hand, he said: "I will drink to your toast to the overthrow of the Mobocrats," which he did in the following language:
"Here's wishing they were in the middle of the sea in a stone canoe with iron paddles and that a shark swallowed the canoe and the Devil swallowed the shark and himself locked up in the northwest corner of Hell, the key lost and a blind man hunting it."
The next morning a man who heard the Prophet give the toast returned to visit the mansion of the Prophet and so abused him with bad language that he was ordered out by the Prophet. It was while the two were out that my attention was attracted to them, and hearing the man speaking in a loud tone of voice, I went towards them, the man finally leaving. There were then present the Prophet, Theodore Turley and myself. The Prophet began talking to us of the mobbings and deriding and persecutions we as a people had endured, "but we will have worse things to see. Our persecutors will have all the mobbings they want. Don't wish them any harm, for when you see their sufferings you will shed bitter tears for them."
While this conversation was going on we stood by his south wicket gate in a triangle. Turning to me, he said, "I want to tell you something of the future. I will speak in a parable like unto John the Revelator. You will go to the Rocky Mountains and you will be a great and mighty people established there, which I will call the White Horse of peace and safety." When the Prophet said, "You will see it," I said, "Where will you be at that time?" He said, "I shall never go there. Your enemies will continue to follow you with persecutions and they will make obnoxious laws against you in Congress to destroy the White Horse, but you will have a friend or two to defend you and throw out the worst parts of the law so they will not hurt you so much. You must continue to petition Congress all the time, but they will treat you like strangers and aliens and they will not give you your rights, but will govern you with strangers and commissioners.
You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread as fine as as a silk fiber." At that time the Prophet's countenance became sad, because as he said, "I love the Constitution; it was made by the inspiration of God; and it will be preserved and saved by the efforts of the White Horse, and by the Red Horse who will combine in its defense.
The White Horse will find the mountains full of minerals and they will become rich (at this time, it must be remembered, the precious metals were not known to exist in either the Rocky Mountains or California). You will see silver piled up in the streets. You will see the gold shoveled up like sand. Gold will be of little value then, even in a mercantile capacity; for the people of the world will have something else to do in seeking for salvation.
The time will come when the banks of every nation will fall and only two places will be safe where people can deposit their gold and treasure. This place will be the White Horse and England's vaults. A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America, such as has never been seen before; for the land will be left without a Supreme Government, and every specie of wickedness will be practiced rampantly in the land. Father will be against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother. The most terrible scenes of bloodshed, murder and rape that have ever been imagined or looked upon will take place. People will be taken from the earth and there will be peace and love only in the Rocky Mountains. This will cause many hundreds of thousands of the honest in heart of the world to gather there, not because they would be Saints, but for safety and because they will be so numerous that you will be in danger of famine, but not for want of seed, time and harvest, but because of so many to be fed. Many will come with bundles under their arms to escape the calamities for there will be no escape except only by escaping and fleeing to Zion. Those that come to you will try to keep the laws and be one with you for they will see your unity and the greatness of your organization.
The Turkish Empire of the Crescent will be the first power to be disputed, for freedom must be given for the Gospel to be preached in the Holy Land. The Lord took of the best blood of the nations and planted them on the small islands now called England and Great Britain and gave them power in the nations for a thousand years and their power will continue with them that they may keep the balance of power; and they will keep Russia from sweeping her power over the world. England and France are now bitter enemies but they will be allied together and be united to keep Russia from conquering the world. The two popes, Greek and Catholic, will eventually come together in their decline and be united. The Protestant Religions do not know how much they are indebted to Henry VIII for throwing off the Pope's bill and establishing the Protestant faith. He was the only monarch who could do so at that time and he did it because the nation was at his back to sustain him. One of the peculiar features in England is the established Red-coat; a uniform making so remarkable a target to shoot at, and yet they have conquered wherever they have gone. The reason for this will be known to them some day as red is seen in a different color threading through under all history. The lion and the unicorn of England comes from there being so much blood of Israel in the nation. While the terrible things of which I have mentioned are going on, England will be neutral until it becomes so inhuman that she will interfere to stop the shedding of blood and history will be more properly understood. England and France will unite together to make peace, not to subdue the nations. She will find this nation so broken up and so many claiming government, till there will be no reasonable government. Then it will appear to the other nations, or powers, as though England had taken possession of the country. The Black Horse will flee to the invaders and will join them for they have fear of becoming slaves again; knowing that England did not believe in slavery, they will flee to them that they believe will make them safe. Armed with British bayonets, the doings of the Black Horse will be terrible." Here the Prophet said that he could not bear to look longer upon the scenes as shown to him in vision and he asked the Lord to close the scenes.
Continuing, he said: "During this time the Great White Horse will have gathered strength, sending out elders to gather the honest in heart from among the Pale Horse, or people of the United States, to stand by the Constitution of the United States as it was given by the inspiration of God. In these days which are yet to come God will set up a Kingdom never to be thrown down, but other Kingdoms to come into it, and those Kingdoms that will not let the Gospel be preached in their lands will be humbled until they will."
"England the Germany, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Holland and Belgium have a considerable amount of the blood of Israel among the people which must be gathered out. Those nations will submit to the nations of God. England will be the last of the nations to surrender, but when she does she will do it as a whole in comparison as she threw off the Catholic power. The nobility knows that the gospel is true, but it has not pomp enough, and grandeur and influence for them to yet embrace it. They are proud and will not acknowledge the Kingdom of God or come into it until they see the power it will have. Peace and safety in the Rocky Mountains will be protected by the Guardians, the White and Red Horses. The coming of the Messiah among his people will be so natural that only those who see him will know that he has come, but he will come and give his laws unto Zion and minister unto his people. This will not be his coming in the clouds of Heaven to take vengeance on the wicked of the world."
"The temple in Jackson county, Missouri, will be built in that generation. The saints will think that there will not be time to build it, but with all the help you can receive, you can put up a great temple quickly. You will have all the gold, silver and precious stones you need, for these things will only be for the beautifying of the temple. Also, all the skilled mechanics you want and the Ten Tribes of Israel will help build it. When you see this land bound with iron, you may look forward to Jackson county."
At this point, he made a pause, and looking up as though the vision were still in view, he said: "There is a land beyond the Rocky Mountains that will be invaded by the heathen Chinese unless great care and protection be given." Speaking of the heathen nations, he said: "Where there is no law there is no condemnation; this will apply to them. Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion.
The last great struggle that Zion will ever have to contend with will be when the whole of America will be made the Zion of God. Those opposing will be called Gog and Magog. The nations of the earth will be led by the Russian Czar and his power will be great, but all opposition will be overcome and this land will be the Zion of our God. Amen."
"We are earnestly seeking to explode the vicious principles of Joseph Smith, and those who practice the same abominations and whoredoms; which we verily know are not accordant and consonant with the principles of Jesus Christ and the Apostles; and for that purpose, and with that end in view, with an eye single to the glory of God, we have dared to gird on the armor, and with god at our head, we most solemnly and sincerely declare that the sword of truth shall not depart from the thigh, nor the buckler from the arm, until we can enjoy those glorious privileges which nature's God and our country's laws have guarantied to us--freedom of speech, the liberty of the press, and the right to worship God "
Then why limit it to elders (men)?
Then why limit it to Mormons?
Are you saying that "Gentiles" (non-Mormons) & women aren't interested in "find[ing] a way to get the United States government to start following the constitution?"
Rammell said, "Only LDS elders are invited because I don't want people there that don't believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Any active member of the church is welcome to attend."
Any reason non-mormons or woman constituents aren’t allowed to attend or did I miss something in the article? If I did, I stand corrccted, otherwise I would prefer the electorate to follow the U.S. Constitution, naturally.
Why, supposedly “Mormonism will rule every nation” because they will be our “religious...and political” saviors!
same sex marriage
no rights for “Gentiles”
no 1st Amendment for “Gentiles”
no 5th Amendment for “Gentiles”
no 10th Amendment for individual states
no elections of our leaders
C'mon, Rex! You've got a lot of other good choices for quotes for your 'lil shindig.
And please order Beer. Couple of kegs, at least. Joe would've like it that way.
Whats with the consternation regarding women? Traditionally, old men collect the collection plates and pass the bread and wine.
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Not in my chuch, both men and women pass the collection plates and serve Communion.
The issue is that Rammell first said it was open only to those who believed in Joseph Smith as a prophet, then it was “men only”.
In the LDS church, women are definitely second class citizens.
The old temple ritual even had the women vowing to obey their husbands as God. Fortunately, that has changed.
The purpose of the meeting called by Rex Rammell, is to find a way to get the United States government to start following the constitution.
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No, the purpose of the meeting was to call the “elders of Israel” (mormon men) to discuss how the LDS are going to “save the Constitution”.
From the first article.
“Only LDS elders are invited because I don’t want people there that don’t believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Any active member of the church is welcome to attend.”
Rammell said that though LDS women were not invited because of lack of space,
That old coot is LONG dead; and us MODERN MORMONs just LOVE you folks!
--MormonDude(well... at least I do!)
That has worked out well...
MORMONs are trying to burn us Inmans and ANTIs out of FR; but the flames keep going out.
Hey folks: how does it feel to be EXCLUDED because of your religion NOW???
No; this is NOT a religious LITMUS TEST!
WHY do you ANTIs HATE us so?
I’ll bet if Mitt Romney’s name had been on the handbill, you guys would not have lashed out so!
—MormonDupe(I really want to save our nation; and so does MITT! VOTE in ‘10!)
Shouldn't that be UNfortunately?
I suppose for the “priesthood holder” the change would be unfortunate.
Just sent a link to this thread to a friend of mine (LDS and RM) who lives in Far West area and has been to the liberty jail several times.
She mentioned that there is a mural with part of the white horse prophecy in the building that houses the jail because that is where JS wrote the letter containing the prophecy.
So much for the LDS claim that there is no first hand source.
Rammell said, “Only LDS elders are invited because I don’t want people there that don’t believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Any active member of the church is welcome to attend.”
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Except women. If there was that much interest, he should have gotten a larger room.
Ours does, it’s called team. Husband and wife teams.
Oh, yea. The kids pass the collection plates, and the teenagers serve bread and wine. It’s a team effort. No egos allowed.
Huh? what’s egos got to do with it? The “elders” are supposed to be the rich old men that contribute the most money to the church. They are the ones that vote on who gets hired as the preacher. They are the ones that approve major expenditures like renovations and upgrades to the church.
In this day and age I suppose I could see these rich old men including their wives in some of the “elder” activities. Especially since the wife is going to tell the old man how to vote anyway. But the kids? no. I don’t agree with that.
If women show up, will they be REFUSED entrance: like a NON-TRed mormon at a temple wedding?
It’s just common sense.
Those that are paying for it, get a bigger say in it.
As for the bread(or crackers, whatever) and wine, and the collection plates...that’s the church equivalent of the “color guard”, or the “honor guard”.
Anyone could do that so long as they are excellent examples of what a church goer should be. Elders should have first crack at it since they are the most respectable(or should be) members.
Obviously, there will be exceptions. You can’t have some rich scumbag off the street walk in and write a million dollar check then demand to be an elder. No matter how rich you are, less than exemplary life should exclude you. also, years of attendance and number of absences should figure into it, imo.
I don’t see why people would get bent out of shape if there are no female elders. It’s just tradition. Besides, women have too much power as it is.
If women show up, will they be REFUSED entrance: like a NON-TRed mormon at a temple wedding?
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No idea. Shame I am not in Idaho. I would crash it, just to see.
No one is saying that it's illegal. But if he's going to formulate policy based on meetings solely of Mormon men discussing Smith's prophecies, that is certainly something the voters of Idaho may wish to consider.
See post 45 or you are just pulling my leg. If that’s the case you got me.
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I fully support Mr. Rammell’s right as an American citizen to meet privately with his fellow elders in private to discuss policy.
I also support Idaho voter’s right to vote against him if they so choose.
All right, you may be describing how things work in practice, especially in little country churches, but that’s not the same thing as how it ought to be; Paul warns against treating people in church differently just because one is rich and another poor. That’s the way of the world, what you call “common sense.” Christians are supposed to love one another equally, as God does. That’s where equality under the law here in America comes from!
Not all churches have the elders serve as ushers, either, but you’re right about people treating it like a color guard. Finally, “women have too much power as it is”? What would get done without a LOL (Little Old Lady) Brigade doing it? Read the end of the Epistles; Paul almost always thanks the ladies of the church. Just because tradition keeps gals from the “elder” title doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have a say.
Well... if you're ever in close proximity to the White House...