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(Audio) A Caller to My Radio Show Asks Why I Kicked Him Off My Facebook Page
Patrick Madrid ^ | 12-29-09 | Patrick Madrid

Posted on 12/29/2009 9:33:23 AM PST by Patrick Madrid

This audio clip is from one of my recent shows, in which a caller wanted (I think) to publicly put me on the spot over why I "de-friended" him on my Facebook page. As you'll hear, the reason was because of something he said to some of the women there about their having had an abortion.

The problem was that he branded such women as "murderers" because 1) abortion is murder and 2) they had aborted one or more of their children. His logic is correct, at least in a sense, because abortion is murder. But the way he put that logic into practice was, in my view, wrong-headed and counterproductive, and in this audio clip, I explain why. Take a listen . . .

(Excerpt) Read more at patrickmadrid.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholic; compassion; murder; prolife

1 posted on 12/29/2009 9:33:24 AM PST by Patrick Madrid
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To: Patrick Madrid

Okay, this is the SECOND time in two/three day’s I’ve seen you hawking your site......ENOUGH!!!!! Get rich on your own time.


2 posted on 12/29/2009 9:51:16 AM PST by Gaffer
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Gaffer; Patrick Madrid
Okay, this is the FIRST time in two/three day’s I’ve seen you hawking your site......ENOUGH!!!!! Get rich on your own time.

w/ attribution to Gaffer for using his well stated material.

4 posted on 12/29/2009 10:00:14 AM PST by Michael.SF. (At least Hitler got the Olympics for Germany)
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To: Michael.SF.

Attribution to ‘Michael.SF.’ for double posting.


5 posted on 12/29/2009 10:01:29 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Patrick Madrid

I listen to Patrick Mardid on EWTN Radio. His is one of the better Christian radio talk shows out there (that I have heard, anyway). If this is the “real” Patrick Madrid, glad to see you here.


6 posted on 12/29/2009 10:03:17 AM PST by Zetman
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To: Gaffer
LOL

You were quick!

7 posted on 12/29/2009 10:09:15 AM PST by Michael.SF. (At least Hitler got the Olympics for Germany)
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To: Zetman
If this is the “real” Patrick Madrid, glad to see you here.

Also to Mr. Madrid, you and your opinions are welcome, IMHO, here at Free Republic, but it is tasteless to shill for yourself.

8 posted on 12/29/2009 10:11:20 AM PST by Michael.SF. (At least Hitler got the Olympics for Germany)
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To: Patrick Madrid
I tried to listen to his comment but was unable to so it is difficult to form an opinion.

Even though someone is forgiven,as repentant sinners are,their personal history is still a prior fact.

Believing that abortion is murder does make a woman that has had one a murderer, though a repentant one, I would pray.

9 posted on 12/29/2009 10:15:48 AM PST by mckenzie7 (I am a European American! Silly me. I never realized that before! Thanks, oh great unifier!)
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To: Gaffer
Patrick Madrid is not just anyone "hawking" his site, he's one of the greatest Catholic apologists there is. Here's a list of his books and cassettes available on Amazon: Patrick Madrid on Amazon
10 posted on 12/29/2009 10:16:25 AM PST by BlessedBeGod (New Wizard of Oz: Pelosi as the Wicked Witch of the West & Michelle as the Wicked Witch of the East.)
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To: Michael.SF.; Patrick Madrid
Dear Michael.SF.,

Frankly, I view Patrick's posting of links to his articles to be a valued service.

I don't always go read ‘em, but I appreciate knowing that there's something new up by him to read.


sitetest

11 posted on 12/29/2009 10:19:04 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Michael.SF.
Also to Mr. Madrid, you and your opinions are welcome, IMHO, here at Free Republic, but it is tasteless to shill for yourself.

I, for one, am glad that Mr. Madrid is here as I value what he has to say. He is entitled to more than one forum, just like the rest of us are.

By the way, Michael.SF.,I love your tagline!

12 posted on 12/29/2009 10:21:57 AM PST by mckenzie7 (I am a European American! Silly me. I never realized that before! Thanks, oh great unifier!)
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To: Patrick Madrid

As a matter of practice I do not click through to private sites unless they are known to me, but I would appreciate a transcript since I am interested in what you have to say on the subject.


13 posted on 12/29/2009 10:35:22 AM PST by Excellence (Meet your new mother-in-law, the United States Government)
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To: Michael.SF.; Zetman

I see. Sorry to have touched such a raw nerve.


14 posted on 12/29/2009 10:42:56 AM PST by Patrick Madrid
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To: BlessedBeGod; Patrick Madrid; All
Patrick Madrid is not just anyone "hawking" his site, he's one of the greatest Catholic apologists there is.

Good for him.

But surely, PATRICK MADRID, you see that others may view this as you wanting us to help you pat yourself on the back.

Had you used a different screenname (assuming you are the author), you might have gotten much less objection.

However, using your real name as your screenname (if true), should get you points for honesty.

15 posted on 12/29/2009 10:44:52 AM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Patrick Madrid
OK, abortion is murder and you must repent to be forgiven or you remain a murderer. Is that about it? If you are forgiven, then why would you be offended, and try to justify your actions to others? It's either a forgiven sin or not. Most women have a harder time forgiving themselves than God does, and therefore take exception to admitting they sinned. When a liar is caught in a lie, they are still a liar and sinned, even if forgiven later.

Trying to stop the Gospel being preached is not going to change a sin to a non sin. How can I warn other women about the sin of abortion, if I am constantly worried about offending an ex-abortionist? When someone is cleansed of their sin, God has forgotten it and it is as far from them as the East is from the West. When God looks upon you, all He see's is the blood of Christ's sacrifice and no longer see's your sin. We are the ones carrying the millstone around our necks and refuse to wallow in the bountiful Grace of our Lord.

The argument seems to be that we are still in rebellion to God. To be angry at someone for pointing out the obvious is crazy. If the woman agrees that she sinned, what's the problem? She is the one still recoiling from her own sin. I admit it, I'm a sinner, I need Christ to cover my sin. I have never commited adultery, yet God has already told me that to think on another woman is adultery, so I am an adulterer. He knows my thoughts. I am a murderer, and yet have never killed anyone, but I have thought of it.

As Jesus said to the woman," Go and sin no more", Don't have anymore abortions and don't agree that abortion is ok because you had one. If a homosexual stops having sex with other homosexuals, repents his sin, and trusts God to forgive him/her, then what else can they do? They can stop defending homosexuality and calling God a liar. To do otherwise, you really haven't repented and are still in rebellion to God. Agreement with God means repentance. If the woman is still recoiling at being called a murderer, then there may be issues that she must deal with, not the person declaring the truth of God.

A quick perusal of the Bible will show that the prophets were killed for saying "Thus sayeth the Lord". The prophets were always declaring the truth of God and no one wanted to hear it. People still hang on to the thought that they aren't THAT bad. Jesus said no one is good, no not one. Our righteousness is as a filthy rag (menstrual rag) to God. To hang on to the thought that her abortion was somehow not that bad and is not to be condemned is curious. I'm not her judge, but I can judge sin. Her relationship to God is a personal one, but abortion is still murder.

16 posted on 12/29/2009 10:47:07 AM PST by chuckles
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To: sitetest; Patrick Madrid
I don't always go read ‘em, but I appreciate knowing that there's something new up by him to read.

Yes, it is nice. Would be better if someone else posted the articles, (which you could do. Just add his website to your bookmarks.)

Rush and Ann Coulter, and a variety of other known website owners frequent FR. They do not, however, post their own articles.

And I say this, even though I am interested in the subject Patrick discusses.

17 posted on 12/29/2009 10:54:42 AM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: chuckles; Patrick Madrid

Wow. What a response.

I thought that Patrick’s point was that having someone be so blunt tended to offend women, who might then not come back to his website.


18 posted on 12/29/2009 11:06:49 AM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Patrick Madrid
I see. Sorry to have touched such a raw nerve.

You did not hit a "raw nerve" with me!! Glad to see you here on Free Republic (if you are the "real" Patrick Madrid). Would value your opinions in many of the posts around here.

Again, assuming you are "real", when will you be coming to the SF Bay Area to speak?? Your insights are sorely needed out in this part of the country!! Will you be participating in the West Coast Walk for Life in San Francisco on January 23?? EWTN is usually broadcasting live from that event.

19 posted on 12/29/2009 11:11:18 AM PST by Zetman
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To: BlessedBeGod
Patrick Madrid is not just anyone "hawking" his site

It's now WHO you are, it's WHAT the rules are.

20 posted on 12/29/2009 11:14:23 AM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Patrick Madrid

Pardon me for not also doing this the first time I saw one of your posts;

WELCOME TO FREE REPUBLIC!!!


21 posted on 12/29/2009 11:16:44 AM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Gaffer

Query: If Rush Limbaugh joined FR today and put up this exact same kind of thread, would you oppose it so vehemently? Just curious.


22 posted on 12/29/2009 11:17:04 AM PST by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: BlessedBeGod

(bluuhh...blleep...oorrr..gggack) OK, my tongue is fixed.

It’s not who you are, it’s what the rules are.


23 posted on 12/29/2009 11:20:43 AM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: thefactor

SEE POST #17


24 posted on 12/29/2009 11:22:13 AM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: UCANSEE2
Dear UCANSEE2,

“which you could do.”

Why would I? I just don't have a problem with prominent bloggers and writers posting short threads that link to their latest offerings.

Since this seems to offend you for some reason, I imagine that posting Patrick's on-line articles to threads here at FR is something which you could do.


sitetest

25 posted on 12/29/2009 11:30:09 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: chuckles

Well said on ALL points chuckles. Truly, being saved and forgiven, all that is seen by God is the blood of Christ on you. But it is within ourselves, where forgiveness is so tough to receive.

You speak well when you say that repentence will also bring out the need and ability and desire to speak out against what you were, if you have truly accepted Grace.

Thank you for much to think on.


26 posted on 12/29/2009 11:31:28 AM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: thefactor

LINK: Patrick Madrid
BYLINE: Patrick Madrid
FREEPER POSTER: Patrick Madrid

Case closed. Seems to me I’ve only seen things from him that are about is blog or ‘radio’ show. Additionally, I’ll hazard to guess that you never saw Rush call into one of his own shows and pump himself up. The point is that if something is good, word gets around - hawking it up doesn’t do anything but turn anyone off.


27 posted on 12/29/2009 11:36:50 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: UCANSEE2
Well, Christian Fundamentalism 101 states that we are ALL sinners and need the blood of Christ to be saved from sin. If a person feels they have not sinned then their self righteousness is what they will have to rely on during Judgment. If a woman that has had an abortion is repulsed by someone saying she murdered her child, then where is the repentance? If someone is curious as to what Patrick thinks, why would they shun a site that they agree with?

Whether she visits his site or not doesn't change the fact that abortion is murder, lying is lying, stealing is stealing, and so forth. There are many that sit in pews each Sunday that have not fully repented of their evil ways. What does it say about the woman if the truth offends her? The messenger of the truth is not at fault for speaking truth. All truth will confront a sinner. They deny what is clearly in front of them. Has she really repented if she disagree's with God that abortion makes her a murderer? Disagreeing with facts doesn't make them untrue.

Just like Patrick said, he speaks truth with love. I have spoken to women with abortions and homosexuals that still practice and the truth is still the truth. I find the hard part with women is them admitting they did anything wrong. When they do seek forgiveness, then somehow what they did wasn't the same as what Gotti did. Then if they finally admit they need Jesus, then they carry the weight around not forgiving themselves. God makes promises and does not lie. If you have repented, you are forgiven. If you have repented, you CANNOT even hint that what you did is OK. Murder is shedding of innocent blood. Abortion,...you cannot be more innocent blood than that.

If a woman has admitted to abortion and says she believes it is wrong, and seeks forgiveness, then how can she deny there is something to forgive? At some point, Patrick must decide if he wants to tell the truth or have women come to his website. By dropping people off his Facebook, is he not alienating others?

28 posted on 12/29/2009 11:37:53 AM PST by chuckles
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To: UCANSEE2

Yes, that’s a lovely post. Doesn’t answer my question, though.


29 posted on 12/29/2009 11:39:59 AM PST by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: RoadGumby
Many women I have spoken to have already decided that they did wrong, they have come to me for advice on forgiveness, and have accepted that Christ is there only hope. You might say, wow, what a slam dunk, but they still don't believe anyone could possibly forgive what they did.

The hard part is always convincing them that God has already forgiven them and they are "clean". They have trouble with faith that God made a statement and always keeps His Word. Forgiving themselves is always a stumbling block.

God says that He is quick to forgive, He wants the best for us, and that His plans for our lives are always good. They cannot have that much faith and believe they must perform some act to make up for their sins. They stay in denial. You can explain 20 times that Jesus did that work for us on the cross, and it just makes no sense to them. I admit, that if I had killed someone so innocent, I would have trouble also, but all I have is the promises of God that there is no sin too big for the blood of Jesus to wash clean.

My personal opinion is we need to have free counseling for women that have done this. Even non Christians may come to the fact that they murdered their own child. PTSS is real and often overwhelms women when they have their epiphany. God has given His Word to us that we can be saved from our sin, but believing it takes faith. Faith is a gift from God and cannot be passed on by earthly diatribe. If a woman cannot come to grips with their sin, then they have a faith problem, and dancing around the word "abortion" isn't going to fix their faith problem. If they can't confront the words, how can they have faith they have been forgiven?

It's a tough problem, but murder is still murder, and lying is still lying. Today on TV, you hear the talking heads saying a politician has disassembled, or his statement is no longer viable, instead of saying he lied. God knows what he did and he still must repent no matter what you name it. You can see the results of that message by looking at the Health Bill and we are still going to treat illegals and there are still Death Panels, no matter what the talking heads say. If we call abortion something other than murder, it will never be changed and we will be arguing semantics forever.

30 posted on 12/29/2009 12:08:07 PM PST by chuckles
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To: chuckles

I agree. If someone kills another and asks for forgiveness they are still a murderer their history is not wiped away because they are forgiven. I don’t see abortion as being any different. Not meant to hurt anyone but facing the truth to me is more inportant than touchy feely stuff.


31 posted on 12/29/2009 12:18:14 PM PST by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba
An interesting case to look at would be Karla Faye Tucker, a convicted murderer in Texas, a few years ago.

To make a long story short, she murdered a couple with a pick axe while in a drug induced state. She was found guilty and sentenced to death. During her incarceration, she came to Jesus and was saved. She married a preacher while behind bars and held church services for the women in prison. Many people said," it's just another jailhouse Jesus deal and pooh poohed her "salvation". As her appeals ran out and her death neared, her case became widley know throughout the Christian community. Pat Robertson, and Falwell, as well as many others, visited her and were convinced of her salvation. Bush could have delayed her sentence, but under Texas law, he was pretty much tied to delaying her sentence by 30 days and not to commute her sentence. As a Christian, my discernment told me she was no longer a threat to society, and I'm about as conservative as it gets with convicted murderers. As a Christian, however, she did the crime and the society had required her life as payment for that. If I had the power, I would have forgiven her and commuted her sentence to life without parole. Her work in the prison was impressive. I did realize the debt she owed, however, and accepted the state descion to kill her.

Killing her did not make us safer, but she did the crime.

32 posted on 12/29/2009 1:01:03 PM PST by chuckles
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To: BlessedBeGod
If he is so famous then why is he self-promoting like this; why weren't you?

He's doing the EXACT same thing that this guy GENE LALOR at GENE LALOR.COM did a while back....self-promote, link to GENELALOR.COM, self-promote, cite his own articles, GENELALOR.COM and so on. All he did was to create his own push-and-talking point polls, throw out philosophical questions, etc. that ALL ended up linking back to his blog.

33 posted on 12/29/2009 2:58:03 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: Patrick Madrid

Good to see you posting Patrick. Now I can bookmark your site.

As you have probably noticed Free Republic is like most of the internet. Full of angry, rude people.

I have many of your books and they have been a wonderful aid to my journey to Catholicism. As a new Catholic, I have been saddened by the attitude of many here toward the Catholic Church.


34 posted on 12/30/2009 5:04:38 AM PST by Not gonna take it anymore
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To: Gaffer; Patrick Madrid
"Okay, this is the SECOND time in two/three day’s I’ve seen you hawking your site......ENOUGH!!!!! Get rich on your own time."

Keep up the posts Patrick, I'm interested in the truth not in any perceived motives behind your posts here at FR.

Happy New Year and God bless!

35 posted on 12/30/2009 6:36:31 AM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: Gaffer

“If he is so famous then why is he self-promoting like this; why weren’t you?”

If you’re with the FR Thread Police I’d like to see some credentials?


36 posted on 12/30/2009 6:52:36 AM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: GonzoII

I addressed my original complaint to Patrick and then to someone
else who directly addressed me. Your opinion is of no meaning.


37 posted on 12/30/2009 8:07:16 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Not gonna take it anymore
As you have probably noticed Free Republic is like most of the internet. Full of angry, rude people ... As a new Catholic, I have been saddened by the attitude of many here toward the Catholic Church.

Interesting comment. I tend to agree.

And I'm wondering if the same people complaining about Mr. Madrid's post would do the same if one Sarah Palin was to post one of her articles on FR. (I know, I know, she's famous and would never lower herself to posting her own stuff, but what if she did, just once?)

Pray for this world, and throw in some fasting as well. It's unbelievable that paying for women's abortions out of our own pockets is right around the corner. St. Michael, the Archangel ...
38 posted on 12/30/2009 6:01:39 PM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: GonzoII
"Keep up the posts Patrick, I'm interested in the truth not in any perceived motives behind your posts here at FR." Thanks, Gonzo. Happy new year to you and yours, too.
39 posted on 01/11/2010 2:21:54 PM PST by Patrick Madrid
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