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Did You Know About the Relics of the Three Wise Men?
cantuar.blogspot.com ^ | Sunday, January 03, 2010 | Taylor Marshall

Posted on 01/04/2010 10:43:57 AM PST by GonzoII

When I was in college, I journeyed to Cologne, Germany and visited the city's glorious cathedral. I was a Protestant at the time, but I remember being amazed that people had been building this cathedral for so many centuries. It is one of the greatest Gothic churches of all time.

(Excerpt) Read more at cantuar.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History
KEYWORDS: archaeoastronomy; bethlehem; cologne; epiphany; germany; godsgravesglyphs; johanneskepler; nativity; relics; starofbethlehem; staroftheeast; wisemen
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1 posted on 01/04/2010 10:44:00 AM PST by GonzoII
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To: GonzoII

geeez Gonzo, been there too, as a youth, and NEVER KNEW about the Golden casket or the bones of the three wise men...wonder how St. Helena got them all together? At any rate...I hope I get a chance to go back. It is an AMAZING cathedral!


2 posted on 01/04/2010 10:53:57 AM PST by Republic (Get the uhbama's, reid's, pelosi's dirty greedy fingers out of our personal medical care!)
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To: GonzoII
What wise men? They were magoi not magi. The Magoi were high officials of the Parthian Empire. A large delegation probably visited Jerusalem, and they rode on horses, not camels, since the Parthians were horse breeders par excellent.
3 posted on 01/04/2010 10:55:15 AM PST by attiladhun2 (The Free World has a new leader--his name is Benjamin Netanyahu)
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To: GonzoII

Sweet! Did they live to see the Crucifixion?

There is a Benedictine abbey near Boston which has first class relics of the three Magi.

I just found out that the Holy Grail has never been lost. It’s on display in Valencia, Spain. Of course, any chalice in any Catholic church is also a holy grail as well.


4 posted on 01/04/2010 10:57:47 AM PST by blackpacific
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To: GonzoII

hmm, never knew about and thanks for the info. The great thing about it is that they saw the birth of the Messiah.

Our current “messiah”, no one has ever seen where he was born.


5 posted on 01/04/2010 11:00:14 AM PST by max americana
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To: GonzoII
The one I always wonder about is St. Joseph..........

It's always amazed me that the remains and final resting place of the foster father of Jesus himself should be so .......incognito..............if that's the right word.

6 posted on 01/04/2010 11:03:02 AM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: GonzoII
With those "supposed" three wise men (the Bible doesn't say exactly) being from the Parthian Empire (deadly enemies of Rome at the time), who would have ever had them buried in Roman lands? It doesn't make sense to me.

And I did read that they returned back home again. So, what did the Queen do? Go hunting for them (i.e., their dead bodies) in the Parthian Empire or rather the Sassanid Empire later?

Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense, especially considering that a large envoy of officials from a neighboring deadly enemy -- enters Jerusalem, and asks the sitting King (at the time) where the new-born King is. You can bet they had ample security and military to fight a war if they needed to, when they came into Jerusalem.

That's why they caused quite a stir in Jerusalem at the time.

7 posted on 01/04/2010 11:06:02 AM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: blackpacific

I have a Grail as well. It is very nice. And NO you cannot see it. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time you silly English Ka-niggits.


8 posted on 01/04/2010 11:08:34 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: blackpacific
You were saying ...

Sweet! Did they live to see the Crucifixion?

I would sincerely doubt it. And the Bible says nothing more about them, once they returned to the Parthian Empire.

But, really..., if they had dared to return again to Roman lands, it would have probably meant a war would break out. For one thing, a envoy like that, with some big-time major officials in transit with it, doesn't march on another enemy country's lands without a possible major altercation.

The managed doing it one time, and I doubt they would try that again. You can bet they were beefed up big-time with enough military support the first time they came through -- there probably wouldn't be a second time for them to intrude upon Roman territory.

9 posted on 01/04/2010 11:13:18 AM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: GonzoII

Christ and the Persian magi

Marco Polo on Persia's "Christian" fire worshippers

From Chapter XI (Of the province of Persia) of Marco Polo's "The Travels; The Description of the world" written in 1298. This translation is by William Marsden, revised by Thomas Wright (Konemann Travel Classics, Koln, Germany, 1996).

Persia was anciently a large and noble province, but it is now in great part destroyed by the Tartars. In Persia there is a city which is called Saba, from whence were the three magi who came to adore Christ in Bethlehem; and the three are buried in that city in a fair sepulchre, and they are all three entire with their beards and hair. One was called Baldasar, the second Gaspar, and the third Melchior.

Marco inquired often in that city concerning the three magi, and nobody could tell him anything about them, except that the three magi were buried there in ancient times. After three days' journey you come to a castle which is called Palasata, which means the castle of the fire-worshippers, and it is true that the inhabitants of that castle worship fire, and this is given as the reason.

The men of that castle say, that anciently three kings of that country went to adore a certain king who was newly born, and carried with them three offerings, namely, gold, frankincense, and myrth: gold, that they might know if he were an earthly king; frankincense, that they might know if he were God; and myrth, that they might now if he were a mortal man.

When these magi were presented to Christ, the youngest of the three adored him first, and it appeared to him that Christ was of his stature and age. The middle one came next, and then the eldest, and to each he seemed to be of their own stature and age. Having compared their observations together, they agreed to go all to worship at once, and then he appeared to them all of his true age.

When they went away, the infant gave them a closed box, which they carried with them for several days, and then becoming curious to see what he had given them, they opened the box and found in it a stone, which was intended for a sign that they should remain firm as a stone in the faith they had received from him.

When, however, they saw the stone, they marvelled, and thinking themselves deluded, they threw the stone into a certain pit, and instantly fire burst forth in the pit. When they saw this, they repented bitterly of what they had done, and taking some of the fire with them they carried it home.

And having placed it in one of their churches, they keep it continually burning, and adore that fire as a god, and make all their sacrifices with it; and if it happen to be extinguished, they go for more to the original fire in the pit where they threw the stone, which is never extinguished, and they take of none other fire. And, therefore, the people of the country worship fire.

Marco was told all this by the people of the country; and it is true that one of those kings was of Saba; and the second was Dyava, and the third was of the castle. [ go to bottom of page to see reference... ]

10 posted on 01/04/2010 11:30:19 AM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: attiladhun2
“What wise men? They were magoi not magi. The Magoi were high officials of the Parthian Empire. A large delegation probably visited Jerusalem, and they rode on horses, not camels, since the Parthians were horse breeders par excellent.”

Must drive you nuts when the “We Three Kings” song comes on the radio. Your point is well taken though. Somewhere along the time line of Christianity the true story of these three men and their journey to find Jesus, was twisted badly.

11 posted on 01/04/2010 11:33:16 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: NavyCanDo; attiladhun2
You were saying ...

Somewhere along the time line of Christianity the true story of these three men and their journey to find Jesus, was twisted badly.

Well, if folks would just stick to the Bible they would be fine... LOL...

It's when you get all these so-called "traditions" added to the Bible that you get into trouble.

Just stick with what the Bible says and you'll be fine... (and forget the songs on the radio and all that other garbage... :-) ...)

Now..., I don't mean to not have fun singing carols and stuff like that, but don't make Christmas carols the source of of truth regarding the Son of God... LOL...

12 posted on 01/04/2010 11:39:59 AM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Republic

Many of us skeptical Protestants suspect that Queen Mother Helena’s tour of the Holy Land in the early 4th Century was the original tourist scam. It seems that whatever she was looking for the local folks seemed to be able to locate “miraculously” and most of it ended up in the hands of the church.

I haven’t heard any tales about what the “guides” got out of it but I doubt they went unrewarded.


13 posted on 01/04/2010 11:44:30 AM PST by Scanian
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To: Star Traveler

>> and myrth, that they might now if he were a mortal man. <<

You mean, “and myrth, that they may find out if he has a sense of humor.”

Either that, or you mean myrrh.


14 posted on 01/04/2010 11:46:15 AM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: NavyCanDo; attiladhun2

Bible Facts - What Does the Bible Really Say About the "Three Wise Men"?

By Dr. Ann Nyland

At this time of year, many of us see nativity scenes every time we leave the house. These usually feature three Wise Men looking at the newborn baby Jesus or handing him little gifts. You'd be hard put to find someone who doesn't think that three Wise Men actually visited the newborn baby Jesus.

Does the Bible say three Wise Men gave gifts to a newborn baby Jesus? No! You won't find this in the King James Version, the NIV, The Message, you won't find this in any Bible version!

What does the Bible say? The Bible says that after Jesus was born, Wise Men traveled hundreds of miles to Jerusalem to look for the one who would be called the "King of the Jews". When Herod heard this, he got quite upset because the Senate had appointed him Ruler of the Jews some time earlier and he was a ruthless guy known for murdering his competition. He called a meeting of the chief priests and Bible scholars to ask if they knew anything about this. They told him that the one who would be called "King of the Jews" would be born in Bethlehem.

Herod then called the Wise Men to a secret meeting, and told them to look for this child in Bethlehem and report his whereabouts to him. He pretended his intention was to go there to worship him, but they didn't fall for that! Anyway, they headed off to Bethlehem and found Jesus in a house, as we are told in Matthew 2:11. Now instead of heading back to Herod, they took off in the other direction back to their own country.

Matthew 2:16-17 says that when Herod realized that the Wise Men had made a fool of him, he got extremely angry. He ordered the death of all the male children up to the age of two years old in Bethlehem and the whole area around it. Verse 17 says that he'd figured out the age from the information supplied by the Wise Men. So any Bible version you pick up will say the same thing - there were no Wise Men present when Jesus was baby, not a single one! They found Jesus as a child close to the age of 2 and living in a house. Remember that after Jesus was born, the Wise Men traveled many hundreds of miles from Persia to Jerusalem to look for him. It took them a while to get there - remember, they couldn't catch a plane!

Now, the Bible doesn't mention the number of these "Wise Men". No doubt the number "three" came into popular belief because they were three different types of gifts - and notice there were not three gifts, just different types of gifts!

History tells us that "Wise Men" were very wealthy, multi-millionaires in today's terms, and traveled with cavalry for protection for themselves and all their luxurious stores. Persians were known in those times for their over-the-top luxury. When they found Jesus, it is highly unlikely that they handed him little gifts the size of a shoe box, as those nativity scenes suggest. More likely it took several people to unload all the treasure from the camels! Gold, frankincense and myrrh were very expensive gifts, this is all well documented historically.


Dr. Ann Nyland is an ancient Greek language scholar and lexicographer known as the translator of The Source New Testament available at http://www.smithandstirling.com Her research field is word meaning from New Testament times.

15 posted on 01/04/2010 11:49:11 AM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: dangus

:-)

I’m just full of myrth right now... LOL...


16 posted on 01/04/2010 11:50:39 AM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: GonzoII

Have been to mass at the Koln Cathedral also took
a tour of the inside area. Wonderful History
and art.


17 posted on 01/04/2010 11:56:52 AM PST by SoCalPol (Reagan Republican for Palin 2012)
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To: attiladhun2

Chill. “Magi” is just an Anglicization of “Magoi,” used to instruct one using English phonemes of the soft “g.” I’m not sure how you think your description varies from tradition, other than what you suppose they rode in on; Any camel is just an artistic extrapolation of what some latter-day romanticist supposed a Middle-Easterner rode in on. The Magi are recognized as Persian throughout Christianity, although a romanticization of them representing the three races became popular in art in the modern era; this is, of course, fictitious, but probably stems from a supposition that they fulfill the prophesy of 60:3.

For whatever reason, they have nearly always been represented as a trio, in every Christian culture, from the Ethiopian Copts, to the Far Eastern Thomists, to the Eastern Orthodox, to the Catholics, so it’s likely there were actually three of them, although in some ancient texts, there are as many as twelve.


18 posted on 01/04/2010 12:03:36 PM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: marshmallow
The one I always wonder about is St. Joseph..........

It's always amazed me that the remains and final resting place of the foster father of Jesus himself should be so .......incognito..............if that's the right word.

see Matthew 27:52-53. While not dogma, it's 'assumed' those risen were taken up into heaven as well.

Which reminds me, someone posted a story about the controversy over the control of the Cenacle or Upper Room in Jerusalem. Some one pointed out that it is also connected to the Tomb of David. Pious Jews admit the tomb is empty. If I have these facts correct, that certainly is interesting.

19 posted on 01/04/2010 12:10:12 PM PST by Oratam
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To: massgopguy

Ni!


20 posted on 01/04/2010 12:15:57 PM PST by eCSMaster
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