Posted on 01/09/2010 6:00:07 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
Ah Gesh! Sorry for the double post!
Yes, I believe that the seat of the world government will not be anywhere but a nation that is represented by one of the two legs in the Daniel statue. And I think you're right regarding the world religion- there will have to be something for everyone, so to speak, to get everyone to fall in line.
I think it’s imortant that we remeber there are some who believe we will only , as Christians, see this coming into view and not be here. If that is the case without true believerrs being here the whole equation of how religion is viwed and believed will be led by the great deception written about..a “delusion” which God says He will send.
I agree with the view that Christians will only see the very beginnings of all of this, which, I believe, we are starting to see.
And aren't you curious as to what the delusion will be?
So people will be very easily mis-lead at that time. Just about anything could be presented and believed to move the masses....heck, look what Bo did with his deception and the masses moved! Which certainly attests to the fact we are already ripe for the whole ball of wax to move quickly along.
EXACTLY!
The scriptures do speak of a religious leader who will stand with the anti-christ, not equal to but powerful in the religious community.
In my opinion the masses will not follow any leader, at that time, apart from the recognized authority of the religious leaders on the int’l stage. There are only two religions that visible, at this time, that could be possible who are active and visible on the world stage.
Certainly that might change in the future, but it seems to me the stage overall is moving at such a pace it would be hard for another to step up and be able to gather the masses as will be necessary.
I think the delusion is that people who have opted out of knowing Christ will be blinded, sort of like Israel was for a time. It will be impossible for them to identify the anti-christ for what and who he is or the religious leader who will assist the masses to follow him...and they will follow without resisting...In time, the few who won’t will meet the sword one way or another for refusing.
Who these people might be as been debated and hashed for years. Some say the’ve already been, but the evidence simply doesn’t support that, there are too many loopholes which don’t line up line up with scripture. So I lean to the pre-millienial view more than the others. This view lines up very nicely with the scripture without trying to make it fit as the others appear to do in my opinion.
Love to dialogue about these times both now and in the future, and so grateful God does seem to reveal as time Marches forward to that day.
The "system" recognizes fulfilled Bible prophecy as it is happening.
And, yet again, no attempt to defend your own beliefs, just an attack on others.
So tiresome, predictable, and pathetic.
Jerusaleum is one issue they might come together on, but I can't see how Israel would ever permit it.
Also who’d a thunk the US would ever back away from Israel as we see beginning today...
I never thought I'd see it in my lifetime.
I don't think we are as close to the Tribulation as most think. The Temple hasn't been rebuilt and that takes time. We haven't seen the first war of Gog and Magog and I don't think we are as close to a one world order as people fear.
FWIW, when I read Romans 11 and realized that God is not done with the Jews the pre-mill view made sense.
2010 … What’s Likely, What’s Not - This Week’s Feature Article by Jack Kelley – www.gracethrufaith.com
The following is not intended as prophecy. The only thing I can safely say I got from the Lord is the idea to write it. But with things happening so quickly these days I think it’s good to get some perspective on Biblical events that may affect our lives in the coming 12 months. It’ll be a good follow-up to our recap of 2009.
The Battle of Psalm 83 … Likely.
Something big seems to be brewing on both Israel’s northern and southern borders. In the south, Egypt and the US are said to be teaming up with Israel. Their plan is to drive Hamas from power in Gaza. Egypt is already building an iron wall along its border to prevent Palestinian entry into the Sinai desert. There are 2 motivating factors at play. One is that the US seems determined to broker a peace agreement this year. To accomplish this, Hamas has to be taken out of the way so Mahmoud Abbas can be the undisputed leader of the Palestinians. The second is the fact that al Qaida is building a strong presence in Gaza. Egypt sees this as a national threat. Some are already calling Gaza the new Yemen.
Israeli experts at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv Universities strongly believe that in the north, Iran is preparing to preempt a military attack against its nuclear program by going to war against Israel, using Hezbollah and several other Palestinian militias from Lebanon as proxies. These experts say that such a move by Iran will give Israel the needed justification to wage a destructive war of unprecedented proportions against both Hezbollah and Lebanon, totally crippling their capabilities for many years to come. They predict that with the resolve of Israel’s current leadership it will only take them 5-6 weeks to liquidate Hezbollah and dismantle the Lebanese Army.
They also believe the Netanyahu government will use the opportunity to widen this war to include Damascus and Northern Syria, wiping out Syria’s chemical and nuclear programs in the process. In the wake of all these dramatic events, Syria and Lebanon will have no other option but to sign a peace treaty on Israel’s terms. (Source: Hamid Ghoriafi, journalist and Middle East analyst in a report to the Lebanese Canadian Coordinating Council.)
If this happens it will explain why none of these entities was named in Ezekiel’s roster of enemy combatants.
The Battle of Ezekiel 38 … Not Likely
Reading Magog’s (Russia’s) mind God said, “You will say, ‘I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars. I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land.’ ”
“Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all her villages will say to you, ‘Have you come to plunder? Have you gathered your hordes to loot, to carry off silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods and to seize much plunder?’ “ (Ezekiel 38:11-13)
Three factors argue against Ezekiel’s Battle coming this year. First, Turkey hasn’t yet completed its change of allegiance from Europe to the camp of Islam, although this could be completed very soon.
Second, Israel hasn’t acquired the wealth necessary to make it a tempting target to Russia, as required by Ezekiel 38:13. The multi-billion dollar gas strike off the Mediterranean coast, and the recent discovery of oil near Tel Aviv could soon provide sufficient motivation to meet this requirement as well.
But third and most importantly, Israel is not living carelessly in a state of perceived peace, and has neither dismantled the security wall that divides it from the Palestinians, nor relaxed its guard in any other way. On the contrary, the military has just concluded successful tests of its “Iron Dome” missile shield in preparation for installation. While Israel sincerely desires peace, the country is not unsuspecting of attack, and is in fact preparing to either receive one from Hizbollah, or launch one against Iran or both.
Current news out of the State Department indicates that the US may have abandoned its effort to impose stronger economic sanctions on Iran, for all practical purposes leaving only the military option. I really think that unless Iran’s nuclear ambitions are curtailed in some other fashion, the Israelis will be looking for an opportunity to take care of the matter themselves and therefore will not be taken by surprise this year.
The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse … Not Likely
For several years people have been asking if we’re in the Seal Judgments of Rev. 6. They ask these questions because some teachers say the first seals are already open. But the opening of the seal judgments requires the 70th Week of Daniel to have begun, and that can’t happen until Israel is officially back in a covenant relationship with God. That means God will have revealed Himself to them by defeating their attackers in the Battle of Ezekiel 38 (Ezek. 39:21-22) It’s helpful to remember that from chapter 6 thru chapter 19, the Book of Revelation is a commentary on Daniel’s 70th Week, a period of time during which the Church is not present on Earth.
Further Decline Of The US … Likely
Since the US is not mentioned in End Times prophecy, although it’s been a dominant world power for nearly all of our life times, its further decline in 2010 is likely. Here’s why I think the US will be increasingly irrelevant as the End Times approach.
More and more “experts” are saying that the recession is not only not over but in 2010 will take an even larger bite out of our economy. Continuing to create money out of thin air to cover our soaring deficit will eventually catch up with us and when it does prices will begin to increase rapidly as the dollar loses what little value it still has. Some say we’ll begin to see the effects of this in 2010. Massive irregularities in the distribution of “bail-out” money are coming to the surface and are likely to further erode our confidence in what our government is telling us.
Most unnerving of all is the lack of trustworthy information from any source. Liberals say the worst is over and things are getting better. Conservatives say we haven’t seen the end yet and things will get worse. With the liberal media pretty much in the government’s pocket and the whackos on the right telling us to buy some guns and find a cave to hide in, where’s the voice of reason to give us the straight story? Or doesn’t any body know?
Experts are beginning to admit that neither political party has the will to do what’s required to save the US from economic ruin. The only question is how long it will take for us to self destruct. Some are saying that by the end of 2010 our situation may well be far worse than it is today.
The Rapture Of The Church … Likely
These days, any talk of coming events has to include the Rapture of the Church. To say that it’s unlikely to happen in 2010 would be misleading, because with each passing day it becomes more and more likely. Even though the timing of the rapture is based upon the number of Church members (Romans 11:25) and not a date, there are other dates that offer clues as to how close we’re coming.
In Matt. 24:34 Jesus said in effect that the generation being born at the time of the first End Times signs would still be alive at the 2nd Coming. The first sign is almost universally recognized as the re-birth of Israel in 1948. “For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.” (Ezekiel 36:24). From Psalm 90:10 we learn that although some may live longer, an average lifespan is about 70 years. 70 years from 1948 would be 2018. Both Romans 11:25 and Acts 15:13-18 indicate that the 70 Weeks of Daniel, interrupted 7 years short of its promised 490 year duration, would resume after the Lord has taken His Church from among the gentiles. Subtracting 7 years from 2018 puts the latest time for the rapture sometime in 2011. Since it could happen at any time, and will happen before Daniel’s 70th week begins, we can realistically look for the rapture any time now.
Every Jewish person dreams of one day celebrating Passover in Jerusalem and so at the end of the Passover Seder, a final toast is traditionally offered. Everyone raises their glass and drinks to the fulfillment of that dream, saying, “Next year in Jerusalem!” Maybe in Church gatherings during 2010 Christians will begin raising their glasses to the toast, “Next year in the New Jerusalem!” It could happen. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah.
Oh yes indeed... You are soooo right about that. God has not abandoned The Jewish people by any means. The ingrafted branch record is beautiful... how fortunate for us!
Plus I think that “spirit of stupor” God gave them, (v.8) for a time ,is along the line that will be sent to those who will believe the lie/delusion, because they rejected Christ. So the masses will indeed follow the anti-christ until God removes that as well.
Don’t you think we see that even today in some respects, people are just not open to even discussion of the things Of God..some even quick to lash out at the mention. It’s going to be more and more difficult to share I think, as time moves on.
Hey...I’ll read this at a later time but meanwhile what do you think of this article you posted? or is it your own writing? Just wondering...
it was an article emailed to me ...I thought it was relative to the thread...you can make up your own mind..I thought it was interesting.
It really troubles me greatly the stance BO has taken concerning Israel. Even knowing that God speaks of such a time Israel will be on her own I sure didn’t want to see it in my lifetime either. She’ll be ok in the long run but there are some dark days ahead I’m afraid.
As for the temple, they have almost all the materials built and ready, even the Priestly garb, stored away I understand.
Perhaps U’riel knows more of that then I. But I’ve seen various clips of these and it’s really very interesting. I believe just recently they began building the alter of sacrifice, for the animals. Showed them putting specific rocks and pouring some sort of liquid over them as a foundation.
Asfor the war of Gog and Magaog. Russia surely will attack Israel..but when? Some say at various times and independant of the final war...others that Russia tries this twice during that time.
Who knows when the formation is complete of a One world Gov. will be...it’s after all on God’s time table. However we are certainly seeing it in the making and being set up for. The fact the USA is becoming less influential on the world stage, in regards to international decisions, is very critical. That being played out as we see will ,and does, change the equations of how other nations move amid each other and are moving now.
If and when the US pulls out of the Mid-East, though I think we’ll have some presence there for a long while, things will esculate all the faster I think. As I’ve mentioned before I believe our footprint there has been Gods way of keeping things from going ballistic between those nations...remove the USA and anything can happen over there.
Excellant Article and Informative...definately relevant to this thread and glad you posted it.
Might well account for Israel passing out masks and preparations that are underway. And Benji moving about on the world stage as he has been.
I noted mention of Syria...who is tightly knit with Iran. Also N. Korea in armaments. Israel had already taken out one of their Nuke sites not long ago, last year perhaps? and it was amazing how little was reported of this.
Thanks again for the info. here..will enlarge my search on these discoveries.
Yes I do!
In the western world we are seeing the rise of paganism, especially the worship of nature. Most people that support the "green movement" don't even think about it in religious terms, but I would bet that more than 90% of them are not Born Again Christians.
However, I believe a couple key events have to occur before we are really close to the Tribulation. The Temple has to be built. We may not see the two witnesses if the rapture is pre-trib, but the Temple will not be built over night. If the Temple is to be built along the lines that Solomon built the first Temple it will take years. If the Temple is going to be built along the lines of the 2nd Temple (remodeled/rebuilt by Herrod later) it will take at least a year. Also, the shrine at the Dome of the Rock has to be dealt with. Maybe the muslims will be agreeable after a huge supernatural defeat, but right now I don't see that on the horizon. That's part of the reason I think we are not as close to the Tribulation as many believe.
Like wise. I think at his core he is an evil man. I think he has been raised to hate all the things that have blessed us. I think the unbelieving academics he is surrounded by are to dumb to see the damage they are doing to us and the world.
As for the temple, they have almost all the materials built and ready, even the Priestly garb, stored away I understand.
I've heard the same, but the building of the structure will be a very slow process.
As I’ve mentioned before I believe our footprint there has been Gods way of keeping things from going ballistic between those nations...remove the USA and anything can happen over there.
We were the first nation to recognize Israel. I agree with your assessment of our role in the middle east.
Your quite correct the “green” movement has all the familiar qualitites many religious cults have... “nature worship” describes it well, as you mentioned.
The time frame required to build the temple does present a kink, some have suggested an earthquake would move things along, others that the dome of the rock would be put in Israels hands as an exchange for Palest. statehood and the division of Jerusalem. That’s possible as it’s not the primary religious site for Muslims, I think it’s their third site?...but is it probable? well things do remain to be seen. Lots of speculation. But you can bet anything the Muslims are required to negotiate will be with much squawking and hollowering—it is their nature—even when they are agreeable they have to show a fight.
I would hope Israel understands that despite Bo’s backing off from Israels support, there are many in the US who remain commited to them. But with what they are facing this pales unless we can find a way to help...not sure the climate there will wait til elections here.
“I think the unbelieving academics he is surrounded by are to dumb to see”—— Boy isn’t that the truth!!!! and as much dangereous with the power they weld.
There was an article posted some time ago about the rebuilding of the Temple and one of the Rabbis involved said that they could have it up within a year. I don't necessarily believe that the Temple has to be built before the Rapture-but it does have to be up by three and a half years into the Tribulation.
Also, the shrine at the Dome of the Rock has to be dealt with. Maybe the muslims will be agreeable after a huge supernatural defeat, but right now I don't see that on the horizon.
There is evidence that the Second Temple was built not where the Dome of the Rock is today, but about 150 feet north of the Dome- a space that is currently empty. At some point, conditions will be just right for the Jews to rebuild their Temple in that space. Will the war prophesied in Psalm 83 be the catalyst which creates those conditions?
It could very well be that after Israel defeats the enemies in that prophecy so decisively, there will be no protest at all about the rebuilding of the Temple.
And, yet again, no attempt to defend your own beliefs, just an attack on others.
You want one? Just a couple quick points for you. Sit down. This may involve some paradigm shifting.
Christ's church is continuous with the elect, believing remnant of Old Testament Israel. There's too much in the Old Testament about how true worship of God was going to spread over all the earth ("my name will be great among the heathen"), and too much in the New about how blood descent is no guarantee of God's favor ("And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ "), for me to think otherwise. Christ's people are the explicit heirs of Abraham ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. "). The visible church, as with OT Israel, is a mixed body with unbelievers present. To the apostate, God's curses would apply.
John's Apocalypse is not a linear narrative. It is also explicitly a book of synmbols. Events such as the last battle and judgment are recapitulated. And, right in the middle there is a symbolic narrative describing the incarnation of Christ and His ascent to Heaven. Which, you'll note, begins the 3.5 years.
The first and second death, and first and second resurrections of Rev. 20 are not simple linear repetitions of events of the same sort. They are events of different orders. (Think of Paul's use of the first Adam, last Adam theme.) All participate in the first (bodily) death. All participate in the second (bodily) resurrection. Those who participate in the first resurrection (spiritual, "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."), do not participate in the second, spiritual, death of eternal conscious torment in the lake of fire. The "millennium" is the state of the saints in heaven during the age of the church, and persists until the last judgment (" 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,")
The New Testament expands the land promise to Abraham to the whole world ("For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith."), and tells us the Abraham did not believe that the local earthly fulfillment was final (For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God....But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city. )
First of all, lets clear up exactly what dispensationalism is so that we're on the same page.
If we are to properly understand, correctly handle and apply the Word of God to our lives, and avoid misunderstanding, disappointment and confusion, it is important to understand that God has different requirements for different people in different ages. There is a word for that. It’s called Dispensationalism.
While the word “Dispensationalism” is not used in the Bible, the concept is taught, just as are the terms “Trinity,” “total depravity,” “original sin,” “eternal security”, and “Messianic Judaism.”
Dispensationalism is based on the Greek word oikonomia which like economy or economics, since it is related to it. It occurs nine times in the New Testament (Luke 16:2–4; 1 Cor. 9:17; Eph.1:10; 3:2, 9; Col. 1:25; 1 Tim. 1:4). A combination of oikos, "house," and nomos, "law," oikonomia means "the law of the house, the arrangement of the house, or administration, stewardship, or management or dispensation - which means the way things are dispensed." The verb oikonomeo, "to administer or manage," is used in Luke 16:2, and the noun oikonomos, "a steward or manager," occurs ten times (Luke 12:42; 16:1, 3, 8; Rom. 16:23; 1 Cor. 4:1–2; Gal. 4:2; Titus 1:7; 1 Pet. 4:10).
Dispensationalism views the world like a household that is managed by God. God is running the world like a manager of a household, “administering its affairs according to His own will and in various stages of revelation in the process of time” (Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today, p. 31).
Dispensationalism is based on two main principles. First, it is based on a consistent, normal, literal, everyday meaning to the Word of God, unless the text tells you otherwise. In other words, we treat the language of the Bible like we treat other every other language. All languages that are spoken are intended to be taken literally, or normally, recognizing at the same time that all languages have figures of speech, symbols, etc.
The basic interpretative rule in Dispensationalism is what is known as the Golden Rule of Interpretation: if the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word in its primary, ordinary, usual, normal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and fundamental truths clearly indicate otherwise.
We know from the context of the normal literal meaning where a symbol or a figure of speech might be. So, the Bible was written in the language of men and was intended to be taken literally with the recognition of the use of figures of speech.
Biblical symbols, with rare exception, are usually explained somewhere else in the Bible. The symbols always represent something that is literal. Therefore there is no need to resort to guesswork. For example Revelation 9:1 refers to a star, and “the key to the bottomless pit was given to him.” Obviously “star” in this verse is not a literal star in one of the galaxies, fueled by a nuclear reaction, but refers figuratively to an angel. And yet only two verses earlier, Revelation 8:12 star refers to literal stars that are stars. The context makes it obvious, when star is to be used literally or symbolically.
Dispensationalism insists that every promise God made to Jewish people which has not been fulfilled will be literally fulfilled sometime in the future.
Those that hold the amillennial view say the thousand-year kingdom in the book of Revelation is only figurative and it really does not mean a thousand-years but it means a undisclosed period of time. The teaching generally is that the Christian Church is true Israel or has replaced Israel at Pentecost and that we have been in the kingdom on earth since Pentecost. Most who hold this view say all kingdom passages in the Old and New Testament dealing with unfulfilled prophecy must be spiritualized or allegorized to pertain to the Church. This position that there is no literal thousand-year reign is held by most of the main-line liberal Protestant denominations and the Catholics.
However, the early fathers of the first two centuries of the Church were premillennial, meaning that they thought that Jesus would come back before the promised earthly kingdom actually started. They included Pothinus, Justin Martyr, Melito, Hegesippus, Tatian, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus and Apollinaria.
The Lord’s promises have always been literally fulfilled. God promised Adam and Eve that the Seed of the woman would come. He did. Noah was warned of a great flood that would destroy every living thing on Earth. It came. Abraham's seed were promised a land. We received it. Moses was promised victory in leading Israel from Egypt. He achieved it. Rebellious Israel was warned of a coming dispersion; it came. The destruction of the Temple and of the nation was prophesied. It happened.
Zechariah said King Messiah would come humbly, just and endowed with salvation, and ride into Jerusalem on a donkey. He did. The suffering, death, burial and resurrection of the Son of God were prophesied. They all happened.
There are at least 1,845 references in the Old Testament and 318 references in the New Testament to the promise of an earthly kingdom with a literal Messiah ruling the world from His throne in Jerusalem.
The allegorizing of prophetic scripture allows the interpretation of these passages by the theology of the denomination interpreting them. For example, the Catholics would allegorize some passages quite differently than would some of the reformed churches. Thus, the allegorical position leaves all prophetic scripture open to interpretation by the theology one has. Under this system of interpreting what the prophets really said, everything is subjective and open to debate and the prophet's words cannot be taken literally.
Amillennial theology tells us that Jesus and the Church are now reigning on earth. If the Church is reigning, then why is the world in the condition that it is in? They believe that Satan is bound and the Church is reigning, but evidence shows that true Christians are a small minority and are losing ground to doctrines of demons. The true Church has not even reigned in the Christian denominations, so how in the world could she be reigning in the world? Even scripture says that evil men will wax worse and worse, so how do we reign over them while they still are allowed to rule here?
Scripture also says that Christ will sit on the throne of His glory when He comes with His holy angels and at that time He will perform a judgment and then rule the nations with a rod of iron. As yet no angels have come and no judgment has taken place and no one is ruling with a rod of iron. We can only make the conclusion from this and other similar passages that Jesus has not yet established His rule on the earth. We also are specifically told in scripture that the time of kingdom rule is set by the authority of the Father alone. Yet Jesus told them by His own authority to wait in Jerusalem for the power from the Holy Spirit so that they could be witnesses to the whole world. In no way can being a witness be equated to reigning in a restored kingdom. Therefore, the promised kingdom whose time is set by the Father was not fulfilled at Pentecost as some amillennialists claim.
Paul tells us there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, however, in Revelation chapter seven it tells us that 144,000 Israelites are sealed so they will not be harmed by the trumpet judgments that come because of the wrath of the Lamb. (When was the wrath of the lamb with these trumpet judgments fulfilled in history?) These Israelites are from twelve named tribes and they are sealed so they can do a mission on earth. These are not identified with the mission of the Church age on earth for Paul told us there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile in the Church. .
Amillennial theology says the land promised to Abraham is spiritual. The scriptures say that God told Abraham to look in all directions from where he was at. This land would be given to Abraham's descendants forever. Scripture says the land would be from the River of Egypt to the great River Euphrates. This land promise has never been fulfilled. Many passages in the Old Testament confirm that Israel will be restored as a nation spiritually, politically, and territorially. Jeremiah 23 and Psalms 89 describe the regathering on the land, and Christ assuming the Davidic throne after his second coming.
The Scriptures tells us that physical Israel will have an important role in the millennium. Some of this is outlined in J. Dwight Pentecost, "Things To Come"
In order to be subjects, Israel, first, will have been converted and restored to the land, as has already been shown.
Second, Israel will be reunited as a nation (Jer 3:18; 33:14; Ezek. 20:40; 37:15-22; 39:25; Hos. 1:11).
Third, the nation will again be related to Jehovah by marriage (Isa. 54:1-17; 62:2-5; Hos. 2:14-23).
Fourth, she will be exalted above the Gentiles (Isa. 14:1-2; 49:22-23; 60:14-17; 61:6-7).
Fifth, Israel will be made righteous (Isa. 1:25; 2:4; 44:22-24; 45:17-25; 48:17: 55:7; 57:18-19; 63:16; Jer. 31:11; 33:8; 50:20, 34; Ezek. 36:25-26; Hos. 14:4; Joel 3:21; Mic. 7:18-19; Zech. 13:9; Mal. 3:2-3).
Sixth, the nation will become God's witnesses during the millennium (Isa. 44:8, 21; 61:6; 66:21; Jer. 16:19-21; Mic. 5:7; Zeph. 3:20; Zech 4:1-7; 4:11-14; 8:23).
Seventh, Israel will be beautified to bring glory to Jehovah (Isa. 62:3; Jer. 32:41; Hos. 14:5-6; Zeph. 3:16-17; Zech. 9:16-17)."
John Walvoord states, (THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM)
"The lesser role of Gentiles in the millennium is the subject of many Old Testament Scriptures such as the following: Isaiah 2:4; 11:12; 16:1-5; 18:1-7; 19:16-25; 23:18: 42:1; 45:14; 49:6, 22; 59:6-8; 60:1-14; 61:8-9; 62:2; 66:18-19; Jeremiah 3:17; 16:19-21; 49:6; 49:39; Ezekiel 38:23; Amos 9:12; Micah 7:16-17; Zepheniah 2:11; 3:9; Zechariah 8:20-22; 9:10; 10:11-12; 14:16-19.
Outstanding in these Scriptures is the fact that, first, the Gentiles will share many of the spiritual and economic blessings of the millennial reign of Christ. Second, they will, however, occupy a subordinate role to Israel (Isa 14:1-2; 49:22-23; 61:5-9). Third, as indicated previously, only Gentiles who are declared righteous by the King will be allowed entrance into the millennial kingdom at its beginning."
[Isa 2:2-4]:
(v. 2) "In the last days the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established as chief among the mountains;
(v. 3) Many peoples [i.e., many types of peoples which inevitably must include Gentile nations, foreigners and not Jews, cp. Ex 21:8] will come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. [Note that this is what a Gentile would say not a Jew]. He will teach us His ways, so that we may walk in His paths.' The Law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
(v. 4) He will judge between the nations [Notice: more than one nation] and will settle disputes for many peoples [Notice: more than one type of people, i.e., race].
They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore."
[This condition of peace has not yet occurred yet so is yet future and speaks of our Lord's millennial kingdom rule]
[Dan 7:14]:
"He [the Messiah, Jesus Christ, (v. 13)] was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom [comprised of all peoples, nations and men of every language] is one that will never be destroyed."
[Zech 2:10-11]:
(v. 10) " 'Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,' declares the LORD [speaking of His millennial kingdom rule].
(v. 11) Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become My people [in the sense of being believers and in His will]. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty [God the Father] has sent Me [the Messiah, the LORD Jesus Christ] to you."
[Zech 8:20-23]:
(v. 20) "This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Many peoples [i.e., foreigners, non-Jews, and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come [speaking of our Lord's millennial kingdom rule], p>(v. 21) and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, 'Let us go at once to entreat the LORD and seek the LORD Almighty. I myself am going.'
[Note that this has not happened yet so is yet future and speaking of the millennial rule]
(v. 22) And many peoples (non-Jews, i.e., Gentiles, foreigners) and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the LORD Almighty and to entreat Him.
(v. 23) This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.' "
[So all Jews will be highly respected by Gentile peoples of all nations as God's mortal human representatives of God on earth during our Lord's millennial rule]
[Zech 14:16-]:
(v. 16) "Then the survivors from all the nations [after our Lord's judgment of the nations, (Mt 25)] that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
(v. 17) If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain.
(v. 18) If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. (v. 19) This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles."
So we see in these many passages that there must be a literal physical kingdom on earth. There is no way that you can honestly read these passages and apply them all to the spiritual Church.
In the Bible, Israel is represented as the WIFE OF JEHOVAH, whereas the Church is represented as the BRIDE OF CHRIST. The relationship of Israel as the Wife of Jehovah to God her Husband undergoes six distinct stages through which this relationship develops.
Stage One: The marriage contract Deut. 5:1-3; 6:10-15; 7:6-11 and basically the whole book of Deut. Other prophets looked at this covenant relationship as a marriage contract, i.e., Ezekiel 16:8.
Stage Two: The Great Adultery Jeremiah 3:1-5,20; 31:32 and Ezekiel 16:15-34 and Hosea 2:2-5
Stage Three: the separation Isaiah 50:1
Stage Four: the divorce Jer. 3:6-10
Stage Five: the punishment Ezekiel. 16:35-43 & 16:58-59; Hosea 2:6-13 Although God has a long program of punishment for Israel's sins, throughout the period of punishment there is a continual call to repentance, Jer. 3:11-18. To this day Israel is still in the fifth stage of her relationship with Jehovah, her Husband.
Stage Six: The Remarriage with Restored Blessings new marriage contract Jer. 31:31-34 (commonly referred to as New Covenant) see also Ezekiel. 16:60-63 & Isa. 54:1-8 & Isa. 62:4-5 & Hosea 2:14-23
The wife of Jehovah and the bride of Christ are different because the wife of Jehovah represents God's relationship with a natural chosen race on earth. The bride of Christ is the spiritual creation that Jesus begun for all people of faith. She is still a bride because she is not yet His wife in marriage. The information above is not saying that those identified as the wife of Jehovah cannot be part of the body of Christ. Jesus and Jehovah are the same. It is only saying that each woman that is represented plays a distinct role.
Amillenniall theology says the Church is now Israel because natural Israel has been cut off but scripture says differently:
Romans 11:25 - Paul says:
".... Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the gentiles come in…"
Who is Israel here? The church? No, the church has experienced no such hardening or blindness. The believing remnant of Jews within the church? No, they are in the church because they have believed. This statement can only be understood if it is seen that the unbelieving nation of Israel is in view.
In v.26 - Paul says:
"And so (at the fullness of the Gentiles) all Israel WILL be saved, …"
Who is Israel here? The church or the believing Jewish remnant within the church? No, the members of the church whether Jew or gentile are saved ALREADY. This verse points to an Israel who will only be saved in the future. Who are they? The nation of Israel currently (at the time of Paul's writing as well as today) existing in a state of unbelief towards the gospel.
In v. 27- Paul points to the prophetic promises of the Old Testament:
"The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins".
Whether the verse points to the Messiah's first coming or second coming makes no difference. The issue is not which coming is in view, but what the Messiah will do with Jacob (Israel). The verse says that he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob and take away their sins. It does not say that He will begin with Israel, and then go elsewhere, but that He will accomplish these things with Israel. These things have not yet been accomplished and therefore are yet future. The verse still refers to the same subject that Paul began the discourse with back in vs 25 - the unbelieving nation of Israel.
In order to understand the importance of holding to the distinction between Israel and the Church, look at how this relates to an understanding of the Abrahamic and the New Covenant.
When God came to Abraham, He promised Abraham that He would give him a specified land and make a great nation of him (Gen. 12:1-3). The land was further identified in Gen. 15:18 as being bounded by the river of Egypt and the River Euphrates. It was a land said to be inhabited by specific ethnic, political groups: "the Kenites, the Kenesites, and the Kadmonites; the Hittites, the Perizzites, and the Rephaim; the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites." The description clearly establishes the land as a specific piece of real estate occupied at the one time in history by various pagan tribes. This land promise was never completely fulfilled in the Old Testament. The Land changes prophesied in Issiah 35:1-2 Zech 14:4 14:8-11 have never taken place. Unless God is to go back on His word, or unless He reinterprets the meaning of this (which amounts to the same thing) in the New Testament, this must be fulfilled.
Non-dispensationalists cannot adequately explain the temple in Ezekiel 40:1-46:24. The temple description is like none in the past due to its great size, and spiritualizing the passage does not explain the reasons for the great detail. The Temple is obviously built on earth in a future period of time on earth.
Some amillennial theology says all this is not to be taken as literal. The claim is that because of Israel's hardness of heart, the Church has replaced Israel, and the land promised by the Abrahamic Covenant is a reference to heaven. They support this by referring to Heb. 11:16 where it is said that Abraham looked for a heavenly city. However, this heavenly city cannot be equated with the land promise for that would mean that heaven had been occupied at one time by those pagan tribes, which is absurd. Also, the specific boundary descriptions imply an earthly real estate. This means that since this promise has not been fulfilled, its fulfillment is yet future, and a return of national, ethnic, regenerated Israel, to the land, must be anticipated.
Even though the Church shares in the blessings of the Abrahamic Covenant by inheriting the promise of justification by faith (Gal 3:6-9) and may dwell in the land alongside Israel in the Millennial Kingdom, this does not mean they have replaced Israel. To assert this is to assert that no one in the Old Testament correctly understood the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant. This would suggest that the Messianic expectations of Mary and other believers at the first coming of Christ were completely erroneous. They might have had confusions, but Jesus never corrected their fundamental expectations of a literal, physical, kingdom of Israel in the land.
What about the New Covenant promised to Israel?
The New Covenant also generates a tremendous amount of discussion as its relation to Israel and the Church is investigated. It is absolutely clear from the context of the covenant in Jer. 31:31-33 that the covenant as prophesied was to be "with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." The context shows that Israel was about to be judged by the Babylonian invasion and captivity. In the midst of this the Lord speaks and gives them hope. He has not deserted them. He will make a new covenant with them, not like the old one, but a new one whose provisions will include a change of heart, the indwelling Spirit of God, and the internal knowledge of God's law in such a way that they will be "My people." Any interpretation of this passage that applies it to the Church in a way that its application in the context of Jeremiah is not realized negates this promise.
In the New Testament, Jesus, the night before He went to the cross, as He remembered the Passover with His disciples, reinvested the cup of wine with new meaning. He said, "This cup is the New Covenant in My Blood." (Luke 22:20) His death on the cross was the sacrifice that established the New Covenant. Further, in 2 Cor. 3:6, Paul states that he is a minister of the New Covenant. The writer of Hebrews in the eighth chapter also applies the New Covenant to the Church.
Does that mean that the Church is the heir of the New Covenant blessings in place of Israel? That is extremely difficult to uphold for at least two reasons. First, a number of Old Testament passages that are clearly New Covenant in context, (i.e., Joel 2:28.) have not been fulfilled literally and await the coming Day of the Lord for that fulfillment. It will be then, the "after these things" of Joel 2:28, that Israel as a redeemed nation, will enter into New Covenant blessing. Second, to apply the New Covenant exclusively to the Church, where there is neither Jew nor Greek, totally negates the specific statement in Jeremiah that the covenant would be made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. The Church clearly benefits from the New Covenant, not as a replacement for Israel, but joined into the place of blessing alongside of Israel. The way in which the covenant was prophesied to be fulfilled for Israel will still take place, but this does not exclude additional, unmentioned application of the covenant to the Church.
If these and dozens of other prophecies like them were literally fulfilled, why should the many remaining prophesies about Israel’s glorious future be “spiritualized” and not fulfilled literally or somehow applied to the Church?
God revealed to Jeremiah that He would make a new covenant with Israel. (Jer 31:31-34) and it would be specifically with Israel and Judah. According to Jeremiah, the new covenant will be fulfilled after Israel's tribulation (30:5-7;31:1-7,11-14) when the people have returned to the land (30:1-4;31:8-10). When we consider all the provisions of the new covenant with Israel we can see that it cannot be fulfilled until Christ comes and establishes His millennial kingdom.
Like all theology there may be some errors in dispensational theology but dispensational teaching is correct when it says that promises to natural Israel cannot be spiritualized and then fulfilled by the Church and when it says that prophetic passages in scripture need to be taken in a normal literal sense.
The scripture supports the concept that the Church finds fulfillment in Christ in this present age of grace. Israel because of unbelief will not find fulfillment in the Messiah until the millennial age. Those who take the plain reading of scripture and spiritualize it to support their theology do it for reasons of theology. Those who say the prophecies of Daniel, Ezekiel, the other Old Testament prophets, Psalms and Revelation should be spiritualized violate literary rules of normal language and communication. They do not use common sense and logic. What they teach, robs the prophets of their prophecies and makes important scriptures about what God said would happen in the future meaningless mystical fluff.
Even modern events should wake us up to the fact that prophecy is being fulfilled in our generation. We see Israel returning to "the land" and being surrounded by hostile nations with the stage being set just as the prophets foretold.
There is one very revealing fact about amillennialism, (and it is agreed upon by all). You cannot from a plain normal reading of scripture support the amillennial position. Amillennialism can only be supported by spiritualizing prophetic passages and that is their error.
All Christians should do as Jesus taught in his example of how to pray "Thy kingdom come Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" This kingdom that Jesus told us to pray for is detailed in numerous passages including Revelation 20, Isaiah 65, and Ezekiel 40-48.
It is a future kingdom, and current events show us that all the end times prophecies are being fulfilled and the end of this Age will occur just as God spells out in Scripture.
The political aspect of this doesn't get touched on very often. This view that "the church" was now reigning on earth for Jesus was used to justify the importance of it being a part of the state and the terrible persecution that followed. The Reformed churches that left the Roman Catholic Church, after they realized the RCC could not be reformed, returned to Scripture as the rule of their faith but didn't recognize they brought a lot of the RCC's beliefs with them. These beliefs included authority of church leaders, infant baptism, and in this case a similar eschatology.
I don't think you will find theologians who disagreed with the amill view after the RCC emerged as the dominant church in the mid 300's. I believe the list of theologians you mentioned GN all lived prior to 300 AD. Once the state church model was discredited and the Scriptures were widely circulated the view held in the primitive Christian Church reemerged.
Thank you GN for the detailed post, lots of Scripture to go back and read.
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