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Confessionals Out, Pagan Art Gallery In (Catholic Caucus)
cmr ^
| January 11, 2010
| matthew archbold
Posted on 01/11/2010 10:24:19 AM PST by NYer
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1
posted on
01/11/2010 10:24:20 AM PST
by
NYer
To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...
2
posted on
01/11/2010 10:24:52 AM PST
by
NYer
("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
To: NYer
I think I’m going to be sick to my stomach.
3
posted on
01/11/2010 10:28:25 AM PST
by
pgkdan
( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
Comment #4 Removed by Moderator
To: NYer
5
posted on
01/11/2010 10:34:01 AM PST
by
Petronski
(In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
To: NYer
SF, does this “church” also offer a bath house for public same sex encounters?
6
posted on
01/11/2010 10:34:04 AM PST
by
a fool in paradise
(Al Gore was more concerned with the evil influence of heavy metal than that of radical Imam.)
To: Petronski
7
posted on
01/11/2010 10:39:24 AM PST
by
ArrogantBustard
(Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
To: NYer
As to the pagan art: I am reminded of the story told by Andrew Mead, now rector of St. Thomas, Fifth Avenue (PECUSA), of walking through the Cathedral of St. John the Divine (PECUSA) in the company of Fr. Alexander Schmemann. The encounted a statue of the Buddha in a niche off of one of the aisles.
Fr. Alexander is reported of have remarked (Fr. Mead quoted him, imitating his rolling Russian baritone), “Do you know what this is? This is bullsh*t!”
Still, so long as the removal of confessionals is indicative of the adoption of the practice found salutary in the East of combining spiritual counsel with the Mystery of Repentance, in the context of a confession in which the priest clearly knows the penitent, I’m not sure that *that* is necessarily a bad thing.
8
posted on
01/11/2010 10:41:34 AM PST
by
The_Reader_David
(And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
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Even for non-Catholics this is extremely distressing. Catholicism is a bullwark against the destruction of moral absolutes; this is an example of the opposite, and is very saddening. What is needed is a resurgence of traditional Catholicism and CINOs gotten rid of. This will help everyone.
9
posted on
01/11/2010 1:09:45 PM PST
by
little jeremiah
(Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
To: NYer
The photograph at the left is at St. John Cantius in Chicago and depicts two of their confessionals. They have about ten such confessionals in their church proper. The cool thing is they hear confessions all through the Sunday masses there. It is one of their "specialties," hearing confessions right before the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist. The second photograph shows the length between the back of church where these particular confessionals are located and on towards the front of the church. This entire space had penitents waiting along the wall at yesterday's Tridentine Mass. If you're in the area and you wish to hear a Tridentine Mass (they have Ordinary Form in English as well), stop by St. John Cantius. The Tridentine Mass is so amazing that most people do not leave their pews immediately when it is over. It's a mixture of being in awe and just taking more time to soak in the beauty of Jesus (and appropriate church art).
St. John Cantius Parish, Chicago, IL.
10
posted on
01/11/2010 2:08:01 PM PST
by
mlizzy
("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
To: The_Reader_David
Do you know what this is? This is bullsh*t! There's a book about that.
the practice found salutary in the East
The East has its peculiar practices, and I wouldn't dream of imposing ours upon them. I would appreciate seeing the same courtesy extended by them in return.
11
posted on
01/11/2010 2:14:12 PM PST
by
ArrogantBustard
(Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
To: NYer
12
posted on
01/11/2010 2:22:53 PM PST
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: NYer
those statues look demonic don’t they?
To: mlizzy
And what a lovely statue of Christ receiving the Prodigal Son.
Here are our confessionals (we have two):
I spoke to our rector about having Confession hours more frequently than just Saturday afternoon. He said that even on Saturday there is lots of 'dead time' when nobody shows up . . . and he can't afford to have his priests sitting for 2 more hours on another day when they are constantly on the run. He pointed out that anybody can schedule Confession at any time. And I will say that when my daughter comes into town on Sunday evening whichever priest is around is happy to hear her Confession before Mass on Sunday night.
All our priests preach the virtue of frequent Confession, and the Advent and Lenten penance services are very well attended (this year the crowd wasn't out the door, but the church was still quite full).
So I don't know if it's a chicken-and-egg situation (if you had more confessional hours, more people would come - or they wouldn't come ????)
14
posted on
01/11/2010 3:26:51 PM PST
by
AnAmericanMother
(Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
To: NYer
If the Jesuits just simply HAVE to have a cultural art exhibit, there’s something called a PARISH HALL . . . rather than using a consecrated space for stuff that is clearly dedicated to somebody else’s religion!
15
posted on
01/11/2010 3:28:59 PM PST
by
AnAmericanMother
(Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
To: AnAmericanMother
At your Advent penance service, do the priests hear confessions in just the two confessionals (they are very nice by the way; you must love confession yourself to have photos), or are stations set up in the church/elsewhere for the crowds?
That's nice you asked them for additional Confession other than on Saturdays. I think Confession is so very difficult for many people to attend, that the more it's talked about freely and encouraged like your priests do, the better.
My beef about Confession is that there is rarely a face-to-face opportunity, and because of hearing loss, it is required for me. I feel there are others (seniors, especially) who are enough hearing disabled that they are put off attempting to confess (the whole line hearing all their sins, etc.), so they just don't go. Also, our confessional doors are not that wide; if you're in a wheelchair, I don't think it would work out. So I'd love to have a separate station in the church proper every single week where you can choose to be behind a portable screen or sit right by the priest.
I'm going to e-mail St. John's and ask if there's any way I can go to a priest face-to-face at their parish, however, my husband feels any place that honors the Tridentine Mass wouldn't allow face-to-face. It's hell being disabled, I tell ya, when the Church makes you go out of your way (I can always set up a "standing" appointment at my regular parish) to dump your sins.
16
posted on
01/11/2010 6:20:24 PM PST
by
mlizzy
("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
To: mlizzy
When we do the big services, our rector calls in an AWFUL lot of favors, because we have priests all over!
At the last Advent penance service they began with all the priests at the altar and had a little talk on the benefits of confession, a communal prayer, then the priests fanned out to the various 'stations', mostly in the transepts, around the sanctuary, and the narthex, marked with a little barricade around for privacy. Most of course were face-to-face, sitting on two chairs, because there are only two confessionals. We had over a dozen priests in attendance.
Fun time last Lenten penance service, the retired archbishop came and brought a friend of his, a Cardinal, who happened to be visiting in town. That was pretty cool, he just took a chair and heard confessions like everyone else (I wasn't in his line - I went to my favorite confessor, who gives excellent advice and a penance that's stiff enough that you feel like he took you seriously). I wondered if you use a different formula with a Cardinal . . . "bless me your Eminence for I have sinned" . . . but I asked afterwards and you don't.
The way our confessionals are set up, you always have the option of going round to the other side for a face-to-face confession. They are only single-sided, not double sided like the old ones where the priest sat in the middle with a screen on each side. Now that I think about it, there should be plenty of room for a wheelchair to go around the back side of the confessional -
I kinda like the screen, but really don't have a problem with face-to-face. I lead a pretty boring life, and the older I get the less embarrassed I am about almost everything.
I would just lay your problem before the priest in your Email, and explain that you can't get the benefit of the Sacrament through the screen because of your hearing loss. I've found that most folks are perfectly willing to accommodate an honest problem or obstacle, if you just explain it to them in a straightforward way, as frankly as you can. And be as accommodating as you can to the priest if he suggests a solution.
The Canons (and the Vatican clarification of 1998) do give a priest the power to decide NOT to hear confessions outside the grille at all, and I don't imagine the FSSP folks are very keen on the idea of face-to-face, but the Canons also say that the priest should temper justice with mercy -- anyway, I'd ask.
17
posted on
01/11/2010 6:51:38 PM PST
by
AnAmericanMother
(Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
To: AnAmericanMother
spoke to our rector about having Confession hours more frequently than just Saturday afternoon. He said that even on Saturday there is lots of 'dead time' when nobody shows up . . . and he can't afford to have his priests sitting for 2 more hours on another day when they are constantly on the run. He pointed out that anybody can schedule Confession at any time. The most popular time in my parish is between Masses on Sunday morning. The lines are long enough that frequently there are two priests hearing them. Our priests are in the church every Sunday from 8 am - 1 pm in various capacities. Honestly, they don't leave. Hearing confessions is part of the job. Yes, anyone can schedule a time, but that doesn't do much for the anonymity.
18
posted on
01/11/2010 7:40:30 PM PST
by
Desdemona
(These are the times that try men's souls. - Remember Christmas 1776)
To: NYer
Darn Jesuits. Here, they ripped out a 100 rank organ and threw it in a dumpster. St. Ignatius Loyola, pray for them. They need all the help they can get.
19
posted on
01/11/2010 7:43:37 PM PST
by
Desdemona
(These are the times that try men's souls. - Remember Christmas 1776)
To: Desdemona
Well, dang. We sure could have used that organ! Who made it? (not that it matters, I guess - it’s gone.)
20
posted on
01/11/2010 8:53:10 PM PST
by
AnAmericanMother
(Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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