Fading Away: Aging congregation, demographics, force church members to face an uncertain future

e Portland Tribune ^ | Jan 14, 2010 | Peter Korn

[ktscarlett66]

Nah. I stopped going years ago. I wanted to be inspired. Not depressed.

[ktscarlett66]

The greatest achievement is selflessness.
The greatest quality is seeking to serve others.
The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind.
The greatest patience is humility.

Conquer the angry man by love.
Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness.
Conquer the miser with generosity.
Conquer the liar with truth.

Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle,
and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared.

I fail to see how something like that would close a church. Aren’t those pretty much in keeping with Christian ideals? If someone quoted them but didn’t say they were Buddhist, I doubt any Christian would have a problem with them.

[ktscarlett66]

” It makes one no less a Christian to understand the differences and similarities in other religions. That is not a conversion to what they believe and a rejection of ones Christianity, but rather a strengthening of ones own beliefs.”

I wholeheartedly agree.

[GCC Catholic]

And what would your comment be if you read that a Buddhist teacher used examples from the Christian bible in their lessons?

I'd be thrilled, because they would be coming closer to Truth. But then again, Buddhism doesn't express itself in an exclusive manner like Christianity does.

I think to reject such as this out of hand is something that is short-sighted. It makes one no less a Christian to understand the differences and similarities in other religions. That is not a conversion to what they believe and a rejection of ones Christianity, but rather a strengthening of ones own beliefs.

Pointing out similarities and differences is laudable, but that doesn't make it right to put the writings of pagans (righteous ones perhaps, but pagans nonetheless), on the same level as divinely-inspired Scripture. In addition, there are some teachings/presuppositions of Buddhism that are in complete contrast to Christianity - which can be the beginning of weakening one's Christian faith.

[GCC Catholic]

I fail to see how something like that would close a church. Aren’t those pretty much in keeping with Christian ideals? If someone quoted them but didn’t say they were Buddhist, I doubt any Christian would have a problem with them.

Understood in a completely Christian context, that particular passage seems fairly harmless, that I will agree with. It isn't in open contradiction with Scripture (though I might say that the highest quality is seeking to serve God; serving others flows from serving God).

But that still doesn't mean that it should be read from the pulpit in a Christian Church in a manner that makes it seem equal to Scripture - because it isn't Scripture. There is plenty of beautiful poetry and beautiful wisdom in the writings of the Old and New Testaments.

[BelleAl]

As a former Presbyterian (PCUSA), I could tell you that the property is not owned by the church, but the Presbytery, which is the local organization of churches.

[BelleAl]

I left my former church (PCUSA) for reasons such as this. I come to church to hear the Gospel, not other religious teaching. If I were interested in other religious teachings (which I am from an informational perspective), I would read a book or take a continuing education course. Churches are for leading people into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ — not making sure they understand Buddhism.

This is why “mainline” churches are dwindling. They have lost sight of their mission.

[ModelBreaker]

“I didn’t feel that way when I went to church. Listening to sermons, it felt pretty useless to try. I’m not sure that’s how you should feel when you go to church.”

I don’t mean to be glib here and I know this question could be taken that way. I mean it as a serious question. Useless to try what?

[KosmicKitty]

I didn’t leave my church, it left me.

The sermon on global warming & saving the poor dying polar bears did it for me.

[B Knotts]

Holy Rosary, not far from downtown Portland, packs ‘em in pretty good.

But it’s not watered-down, liberal Christianity, which is what you find at these dying congregations.

[SharpRightTurn]

“She and Grant talk about believing in a divine being, and exploring their own version of spirituality, combining elements of Wicca, Buddhism and other religions they have studied.”

Why not worship Zero, your true god?

When liberalism starts creeping in, it affects everything just like a runaway cancer.

This is very sad but is representative of why many parts of Western Civilization is dying. Recognizing that is the first step to turning things around.

[Fido969]

Except the article is about a church in Portland. What happens when you call bingo but you have the wrong spot marked? :-)

lol. You're right. Who'd think there would be two Eastminster Presbyterian Churches?

Here ya go:

http://www.eastminsterpdx.org/

[texmexis best]

Try a Southern Baptist church. There are many, many ex-Presbyterians who have joined, including myself.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Read by a sodomite.

[RoadGumby]

Buddhism is not a religion per se. It is more of a philosophy.

I would not welcome Buddhist readings in my church, neither Islamic nor Hindu. If one wants to understand the differences and such, there are plaenty of books to read, those ‘teachings’ do not belong in Christian worship.

Similarly, I ‘ll warrant that in your local mosque, not only would proclaiming Jesus to be the Son of God and the Saviour of mankind not be appreciated, it might be met with physical ‘resistance’. If a ‘philosophy’ wants to also discuss Christ, I say more power to them. But non-Christ teachings do not belong in church.

[ottbmare]

Heron has also introduced a much more progressive, and liberal form of Christianity to Eastminster, and has found his ideas welcomed.

By whom?

Yup. Clearly they weren't able to recruit new members to their church, and the lame preaching may be part of the reason. You'll note that churches with dynamic preachers and vigorous instruction in the Scripture rarely have any trouble attracting parishioners. The churches near me that preach the Gospel have jammed parking lots for numerous services and have to keep building larger and larger facilities to accommodate the crowds that demand to hear the Word.

Buddhism may have wisdom to impart to us, but people who come to church, particularly older people, are probably going to the trouble to come out on a Sunday morning because they want some direction on how to grow closer to the Lord our God. Buddhism by its very nature is not going to teach that. Neither will material from children's books. You, Tainan, may like to hear these things, and that's your right, but it's evident that this church died because only a few people liked what they were hearing and learning there.

[Trick or Treat]

http://www.eastminsterpdx.org/

I just went to their site and looked at one of their sermons from last year. There were no references to any Bible scriptures. The pastor mentioned Jesus once in passing. And the majority of the sermon was about current political events. People don’t go to church for that. They go (or should go) to hear God’s word preached. These liberal churches are dying because the people are flocking to real churches where God’s word is preached.

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

Where are the people? At the contemporary church, where they have a rockin’ good time in the song portion of worship and a message that hits hard with truth and hope.

You mean the one with no doctrine that sings five contemporary feel good worship songs, followed by a sermon from the celebrity Pastor that makes the congregation feel great about themselves.

[Tainan]

"You, Tainan, may like to hear these things,..."

I might suggest you re-read my comment and try, again, to understand what I was saying.
I am a Christian. Born and raised in a Christian environment. I make no claim to be otherwise. And yes, I do like to hear, discuss and learn about the belief systems of those who follow a different path than I do. Whether they be Buddhist, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian or...the ambiguous path of the Unitarian(which completely baffles me in its...nothingness).
I might add, humbly, I am a poor Christian and continually seek to do & be a better one.

As to Buddhism being a "religion" or a "philosophy", I will grant that while their may be a semantic argument to be pursued on this distinction, for those involved it is indeed their 'religion.' Perhaps more accurately it can be said to be their 'Dao' or 'way' for their life.
The precepts presented affect not only their inner world but their manner of conduct in their outward life. Same as Christianity.
(I, personally, do not consider Islam to be a religion - IMO it is a political and social concept(poor word - its early for me)).

I believe in the fundamentals of Bible interpretation and the power of God as manifested in his Son who we know as Jesus Christ, and a few other names. His message is one of love, compassion and obedience to his and his Fathers words.
Pardon me for going off track with a personal witness...I hope you will understand...;-)

[RoadGumby]

No harm or foul on you r witness, we all should be doing that, as well as we can, in ways Christ would.

The article was about the spreading or teaching or reading of alternative ‘faiths’ in a ‘Christian’ church. That is just not a good thing at all, seems to me, that would more than constitute a ‘luke warm’ church, which Christ says (in Revelation) makes Him want to vomit it from His mouth.

Church should be for preaching the Gospel and Christ. Not giving equal time to other religions or philosphies that lead people to Hell. Buddhism is great, as long as you are willing to go to Hell believing in it. As is Islam, or Hinduism or Gaia worship or Wicca. Pick your poison.