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Then Shall They Be Gods [Mormonism]
Truth In Love Ministry.Net ^

Posted on 01/21/2010 2:05:00 PM PST by Colofornian

It is urgent to witness to Mormons because they worship a false god. To many Christians this sounds like an extreme position; after all Mormons profess faith in Jesus Christ and have incorporated his name into the name of their church. Yet the majority of LDS doctrine contradicts the truth of the Bible. There are few simple comparisons of doctrine that illustrate the great gulf between Mormonism and Christianity more clearly than the LDS doctrine of godhood. This doctrine states that the LDS god was once a man and that if a Mormon is faithful to the LDS church he or she will become a god.

The title of this article is taken from Doctrine and Covenants 132:20-21 “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.” This passage refers to the LDS doctrine that those who fulfill all the demands of Mormonism will become a god and rule over their own world.

A more complete explanation of the doctrine can be found in the 76th chapter of Doctrine and Covenants. This doctrine is dovetailed with the doctrine that the god of this world was once a man on another world who fulfilled all the demands of Mormonism and was given this world to rule. The LDS prophet Lorenzo Snow is credited with coining a catch phrase to summarize these doctrines “As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.”

Many people believe this doctrine is one of the “old school” beliefs of the LDS church, no longer part of today’s LDS church. This is due to a number of different factors:

How the LDS church markets its form of religion. You will not find the doctrines concerning godhood prominent in their TV commercials or on the web site designed to promote their beliefs to non-Mormons, mormon.org.

How Mormons themselves react concerning the doctrine. Most Mormons when asked about their personal pursuit of godhood and whether they really see themselves at some time in the future as a god, down play the thought. It seems as though most Mormons are embarrassed by the thought of becoming a god and that this ultimate result of their faith is relegated to “out of sight, out of mind”.

How godhood is covered using other terms. The subject of godhood is discussed via a variety of more commonly used equivalent phrases; ‘exaltation’, ‘eternal life’ and ‘having an eternal family’

Modern Mormon official church literature ensures that this doctrine remains one of the church’s foundations and is to be the desired outcome of every Mormon’s walk of faith and works. In Gospel Principles on page 302 is a list of the blessings of exaltation. Number 2 is “They will become gods.” The list also includes “live eternally” and “have their righteous family members with them." The D&C Student Manual on page 358 has this quote of prophet Spencer Kimball: "Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe."

Most discussion of godhood in the official church magazine “Ensign” is discussed using the subjects of eternal life, exaltation, and eternal family; however godhood still makes the occasional appearance:

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught of a much simpler and more sensible relationship: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! January 2005 Ensign, page 48

“We are in the mortal life to get an experience, a training, that we couldn’t get any other way. And in order [for us] to become gods, it is necessary for us to know something about pain, about sickness, and about the other things that we partake of in this school of mortality.” January 2006 Ensign, page 52

While the doctrine that man can become a god is very troubling to Christians, it is actually the other part of the doctrine that clearly shows the urgency of witnessing to Mormons. The implications in the claim that their god was once a man has many far-reaching consequences. Among them are:

This god is not eternal. He was procreated spiritually by two other gods and born physically to mortal, sinful parents.

This god was not always perfect. He worked his way up from being a sinful being.

This god is not unique. There are countless other gods.

This god is not all powerful. He is just one cog in a much larger machine.

This god created Christ. The son of this god, also called Jesus Christ, did not exist until this god procreated him spiritually with another god and physically with Mary.

Once Christians understand the magnitude of the differences between the Mormon god and their own God, they can then see the urgency of witnessing to Mormons. They can see the futility of Mormonism in the worship of a created being.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; christian; gods; lds; mormon
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Well, I think this hits the "elephant in the living room" aspect of talking with Mormons or about MormonISM with other non-Mormons...they just don't usually want to discuss this aspect of the most died-true-blue temple Mormons -- often the MOST conservative Mormons out there -- believing they'll one day become a god.

From the article: While the doctrine that man can become a god is very troubling to Christians, it is actually the other part of the doctrine that clearly shows the urgency of witnessing to Mormons. The implications in the claim that their god was once a man has many far-reaching consequences. Among them are:

This god is not eternal. He was procreated spiritually by two other gods and born physically to mortal, sinful parents.

This god was not always perfect. He worked his way up from being a sinful being.

This god is not unique. There are countless other gods.

This god is not all powerful. He is just one cog in a much larger machine.

This god created Christ. The son of this god, also called Jesus Christ, did not exist until this god procreated him spiritually with another god and physically with Mary.

Once Christians understand the magnitude of the differences between the Mormon god and their own God, they can then see the urgency of witnessing to Mormons. They can see the futility of Mormonism in the worship of a created being.

1 posted on 01/21/2010 2:05:00 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

What crap.


2 posted on 01/21/2010 2:08:23 PM PST by Leo Farnsworth (I'm really not Leo Farnsworth.)
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To: Leo Farnsworth

What’s crap? That ldsers believe they are becoming gods or the article?


3 posted on 01/21/2010 2:10:36 PM PST by svcw (The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. GW)
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To: Colofornian
Regarding how the progression to godhood gets buried, it stands in contrast to the words of smith about its importance -

These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.

If it is indeed the FIRST PRINCIPLE OF THE GOSPEL, one would think it would be over every door post of every ward house.

4 posted on 01/21/2010 2:12:30 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: svcw

The Mormon Curuch is crap.


5 posted on 01/21/2010 2:13:56 PM PST by Leo Farnsworth (I'm really not Leo Farnsworth.)
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To: Leo Farnsworth

how is it crap?

Isn’t this the truth?

The god of Mormonism did overcome sin to become god

he was not always god. he has a literal grandfater, and a great grandfather.

is this not correct according to LDS doctrine?


6 posted on 01/21/2010 2:14:09 PM PST by RaceBannon (OBAMA'S HEALTH CARE IS SHOVEL READY...FOR SENIORS!!:: NObama. Not my president.)
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To: Colofornian
Doctrine and Covenants 132:20-21 “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.”

Everything ldsers say is invalidated by this statement alone.

7 posted on 01/21/2010 2:14:23 PM PST by svcw (The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. GW)
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To: Leo Farnsworth

Got it.


8 posted on 01/21/2010 2:15:11 PM PST by svcw (The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. GW)
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To: RaceBannon

The Mormon Curuch is crap.


9 posted on 01/21/2010 2:15:30 PM PST by Leo Farnsworth (I'm really not Leo Farnsworth.)
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To: svcw

Peace be to you.


10 posted on 01/21/2010 2:16:13 PM PST by Leo Farnsworth (I'm really not Leo Farnsworth.)
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To: Colofornian
A slow day in Fundyland Captain Ahab?
11 posted on 01/21/2010 2:18:25 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Colofornian
I really wish we spent more time castigating the Calvinists.

We all know by now that Catholics and Mormons are going to hell along with all their heretic Muslim buddies.

We need to start warning those darned Calvinists who don't believe that people can accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, but instead heretically demand that humans can do nothing to guarantee their personal salvation.

Unless and until everyone on FreeRepublic is a Born Again Christian, we need to stop discussing politics and focus on saving people's souls!

If you disagree with me then you are surely going to Hell.

Oh yeah, and we need to send all thos evil-lutionists back to the mudhole from which they oozed.

12 posted on 01/21/2010 2:21:31 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear (These fragments I have shored against my ruins)
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To: Colofornian
Too bad we do not have a resident scientologist(sic) so
they could debate the writings of these two science fiction
writers!

Ducking!

13 posted on 01/21/2010 2:21:35 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ((B.?) Hussein (Obama?Soetoro?Dunham?) Change America Will Die From.)
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To: Colofornian

..my invisible friend is better than than yours....


14 posted on 01/21/2010 2:23:13 PM PST by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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To: svcw
Everything ldsers say is invalidated by this statement alone.

Indeed...look at the high-minded claims of that Lds "scriptural" statement: “Then shall they be gods...then shall they be above all...

And why do they expect to be "above all?"

...because all things are subject unto them.

(Translation: the rest of us are just mere "subjects" to their divinity -- supposedly "because they have ALL power")

Now we understand that a Mormon POTUS candidate who believes this may actually think of...
...the White House as just one brief career stop on his way to...
...the White Throne!!!

Could we imagine the Media & Freeper reaction if, let's say, Obama, Hillary or Sarah Palin said??? "I believe in the faith of my fathers, including the 'scriptures' they put forth. And this includes Doctrine & Covenants 132:20-21, which I believe the 'they' in this passage applies to me":

“Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.”

(The MSM & FReeptown would go 'nuts'...but because these are "nice" potential "conservative" "gods," we're supposed to ignore these elephant-in-the-living room issues!!!!)

15 posted on 01/21/2010 2:25:12 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: norraad
..my invisible friend is better than than yours....

So you're deep philosophical pondering of the day for us to mull over is: "God is Harvey the Bunny???"

16 posted on 01/21/2010 2:26:54 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian

I thing this is all so unfair. Mormonism is simply non-Nicean, non-Constatinopolitan, non-Ephesian, non-Chalcedonian, non-Constatinopolitan II, non-Constatinopolitan III, non-Nicean II, non-Constatinopolitan IV, non-Lateran, non-Lateran II, non-Lateran III, non-Lateran IV, non-Lyonese, non-Lyonese II, non-Viennese, non-Constancian, non-Lateran V, non-Tridentine, non-Vatican, non-Vatican II Christianity. And what’s wrong with that? So is most of the Protestant world. :-p


17 posted on 01/21/2010 2:28:58 PM PST by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Hallelujah!


18 posted on 01/21/2010 2:29:40 PM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

The Thetans will get you...


19 posted on 01/21/2010 2:30:21 PM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear; Colofornian

Works for me.


20 posted on 01/21/2010 2:33:48 PM PST by reaganaut (- "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Colofornian

Obama prove that all you have to do to become a god is vote “present.”


21 posted on 01/21/2010 2:39:11 PM PST by WestwardHo (Whom the god would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: Colofornian

People will go to many lengths to believe in a god other than the Trinitarian God of the Bible. It’s very appealing, though, to believe that you can become your own god. Almost as appealing as the Reformed beliefs in the limo ride to heaven for the elect.


22 posted on 01/21/2010 6:42:12 PM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Colofornian; svcw

Indeed...look at the high-minded claims of that Lds “scriptural” statement: “Then shall they be gods...then shall they be above all...

- - - - - - - - -
Hmmm....where have we heard THAT before...

2 Thessalonians 2:4 (Today’s New International Version)
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.


23 posted on 01/21/2010 7:56:10 PM PST by reaganaut (- "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Every political breakfast I go to, I ask who the Mormons are so I don’t have to be seated next to one. You know, because the Mormon Derangement Sewing Circle has convinced me to be unevenly yolked.

Or something like that....


24 posted on 01/21/2010 8:01:54 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

That is actually funny.


25 posted on 01/21/2010 8:12:09 PM PST by reaganaut (- "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Larry Lucido; who_would_fardels_bear; reaganaut; Godzilla; Tennessee Nana; ejonesie22; Elsie; ...
So instead...
...you hang out with us Christians here @ the so-called "apostate" BBQ???...
...all as 60,000 Lds missionaries go around the world...
...telling all Christians how "apostate" we are...
...along w/the umpteen spiritual generations of Christian before us...
...as we all carte blanche & retroactively, IMA, supposedly "abandoned" the faith a la the filtered voice of Joe Smith???

I suppose, Larry, if you don't like the smoky atmosphere here as we're BBQ'd alive by the Mormon world-wide contingent, you could always grab a Mormon shovel and try to bury us yet again in that one gigantic spiritual graveyard Joe Smith tried to dig for us back yonder...
...the problem's been that we just won't stay "dead..."
...ya see, Larry, the reality of our spiritual existence causes a rather, how shall I say this, "grave" problem for the average contemporary Mormon...
...you see, if they acknowledge that we & our ancestors are indeed true Christians, then why did the world ever "need" a Mormon "restoration" to come along???
If nothing was completely lost, if all Christians weren't buried away in some graveyard, then no restorer was needed...
...and if no restorer was needed, then Joe Smith's existence as what the Mormon Times has called the "first student of the church" was all unnecessary/superflous!

So, the Mormons just can't have all these Christians bouncing up out of their designated coffins. Elsewise the restoration was irrelevant: No dead Christian church, no dead Christians across the board, the so-called "restoration" itself then dies.

So the Mormons declare us dead everywhere they can...missionary-prompted doorbells & porches; the Lds official Web site; Lds curricula; its official Ensign mag; its historical books, etc. (They try to couch it using subtle language like "universal apostasy," but we know who "universal" is...kind of like when Obama talks about "universal healthcare"...we know who Obama has in mind for that, too!!!)

26 posted on 01/21/2010 8:23:35 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian

I am tempted to write a long post on the differences between theosis, apotheosis, and Apocolocyntosis, but it shall have to wait until morning.

Suffice it to say, there is no Biblical, nor historical viewpoint among Christian supporting the idea that we (as creations of God) shall ever become Gods ourselves.

In fact, the entire idea is a very gross blasphemy. But considering Joseph Smith’s delusions of grandeur...what can we expect?


27 posted on 01/21/2010 8:28:04 PM PST by reaganaut (- "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut; All
In fact, the entire idea is a very gross blasphemy. But considering Joseph Smith’s delusions of grandeur...what can we expect?

That's what happens when you can have women at a whim...Smith even nabbed 11-12 wives of already-married women! He began collecting them like a hobby in serious earnest in those last few years of his life...1842...1843...the remaining months of his life in 1844...Why only a "god" could have this kind of power...hence it wasn't til he almost died that he took off preaching his multiple god theory @ the King Follett funeral...

And ya gotta realize that the verses highlighting Mormons becoming gods -- D&C 132:20-21... was written in a broader context for two OTHER purposes...both dealing with "polypartnering":
(a) Convince Joseph's first wife Emma that it 'twas God's idea -- not Joseph's -- that Joseph pick up this multiple-wife "sideline activity"...D&C 132:34-35 is just a sort of preamble to what the real targeted purpose ... Joseph wrote D&C 132 initially just for his first wife!!!

We see this quite plainly in D&C 132:52-53: And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God. 53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things;

Ah...see where the "polygamy" justification fits in nicely with the Mormon doctrine of "Then they shall be gods?" See, Joseph says, "He'...ll be made ruler over many things" -- and obviously big-shot divine rulers need a lot of wives!!!

Oh, and purpose (b) tied to polypartnering? Why, that's covered in the next D&C verse -- D&C 132:54: And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

Do all you Lds & non-Lds lurkers get this picture now? Can you imagine what strife was going on in the Smith household at the time? Emma finally had some "bounceback" during one of those Smith arguments. She came up with a "what's-good-for-the-gander-is-good-for-the-goose" argument! She threatened to find her an extra husband or two or three.

Why just imagine that. Emma Smith pondering bedding down with other hubbies. If for no other reason than spite.

Well, a "prophet" can't have his wife sleep around e'en though he's adding another bedroom every month for a new wife! (That's what averaged the last two years of his life).

So, there ya have it. The origins of Mormons-R-goods was rooted in (a) polygamy; and (b) anti-Emma polygamy; and Smith took a funeral sermon of all places, to further expound upon future godhood.

28 posted on 01/21/2010 8:52:26 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian

True.


29 posted on 01/21/2010 9:19:37 PM PST by JSDude1 (www.wethepeopleindiana.org (Tea Party Member-Proud), www.travishankins.com (R- IN 09 2010!))
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To: Leo Farnsworth

Very succint. I like that and totally agree with your assessment.

SZ


30 posted on 01/21/2010 9:22:38 PM PST by SZonian (There are "victims" everywhere I look.)
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To: RaceBannon
how is it crap? Isn’t this the truth? The god of Mormonism did overcome sin to become god he was not always god. he has a literal grandfater, and a great grandfather. is this not correct according to LDS doctrine?

It may be LDS doctrine but it is not Christian doctrine and it is not the truth.

31 posted on 01/21/2010 9:23:14 PM PST by T Minus Four (Help Haiti and know your money is going to the right people - www.WorldVision.org)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear; Colofornian
We all know by now that Catholics and Mormons are going to hell along with all their heretic Muslim buddies.

I expect to see plenty of Catholics, as well as E. Orthodox, Anglican, baptists, lutherians, methodists, etc. TBMs may well be by far under represented unless they have become born again and God honor that while still living in ignorance in lds inc.

How about you wwfb - would you like to become born again too?

32 posted on 01/21/2010 9:24:58 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Colofornian

Waiting for the usual crowd to show up and attack you personally. I’m interested to see if they have the guts to defend this doctrine.


33 posted on 01/21/2010 9:25:36 PM PST by T Minus Four (Help Haiti and know your money is going to the right people - www.WorldVision.org)
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To: reaganaut
Apocolocyntosis


34 posted on 01/21/2010 9:29:33 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Colofornian

Bt of course Hillary and Sara, if they were LDS, wouldn’t be able to claim that they believe they will be gods, because only the menfolk get to be gods. Their many wives are eternal breeders. Or at least that’s my understanding.


35 posted on 01/21/2010 9:30:58 PM PST by T Minus Four (Help Haiti and know your money is going to the right people - www.WorldVision.org)
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To: T Minus Four

I certainly agree with that!


36 posted on 01/21/2010 10:03:15 PM PST by RaceBannon (OBAMA'S HEALTH CARE IS SHOVEL READY...FOR SENIORS!!:: NObama. Not my president.)
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To: Colofornian

OK, I have a very heavy question.

I am a born-again Christian, and my hope, indeed my commission, is to try to bring as many people as possible to Christ. Here are my reasons:

1)I am so in love with Jesus; He brings me such joy! I want that for everybody!

2) I am commanded by God to evangelize all. I wish to obey God, who has been so gracious and loving to me.

3) Everyone who becomes a fellow Christian will instantly become my brother and sister, adopted by God. We will spend eternity enjoying each other and worshipping God together forever.

So, what’s in it for the Mormons? Why do they give a fig if anyone other than their family becomes Mormon too? It seems they are all in it for themselves, for what they can get out of it. They become gods and populate their own planets. Why would they care about Joe Schmoe down the street?

This is a serious question. Is it just one of their works? They do it for “points’?


37 posted on 01/21/2010 10:12:43 PM PST by T Minus Four (Help Haiti and know your money is going to the right people - www.WorldVision.org)
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To: T Minus Four; reaganaut; SZonian; colorcountry; greyfoxx39
So, what’s in it for the Mormons? Why do they give a fig if anyone other than their family becomes Mormon too? It seems they are all in it for themselves, for what they can get out of it. They become gods and populate their own planets. Why would they care about Joe Schmoe down the street? This is a serious question. Is it just one of their works? They do it for “points’?

Well, your question may actually draw a slew of responses/answers from some Lds FReepers & ex-Lds Freepers like Reaganaut, Szonian, Colorcountry and Greyfoxx. But notice those plural words (responses/answers). I don’t think it’s possible to narrow down your Q to simply 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 “right answers” because (a) people, including from one Mormon to another, are so different; and (b) your Q is really all about motives.

What motivates Mormons to act on behalf of “Joe Schmoe?” My immediate response is to warn, “Hey, let’s not generalize or stereotype Lds and project what we think as applicable to every Mormon. Motivations involve things internal – hearts we cannot see, much less judge.”

But, still, Mormons themselves have done us a favor in identifying the motives they see all around them. So, while we can’t get into “mind reading” of individual fellow Mormon FReepers, some of them – and other Lds, have conveyed in their own words what their motives are or what they’ve observed in those around them.

Therefore, the best way I could answer your specific Q is to allow Mormons to speak for themselves. I looked thru some Mormon publications to see what they had to say about what motivated them – or how they see people as being motivated. So, below are their words—some of which I leave uncommented…others I’ll comment upon..I’ll start with what I thought were the most positive motives given as encouragement to others…and then I’ll finish with what I believe are off-kilter motives – such as falling into the category of working for eternal life, etc. [Treating God as a “Teacher” who is “grading us”]

Sample of generally positive motives given by Lds writers attempting to encourage others to consider these as prime motivations:

One day, while thumbing through my files, I found a fundamental key to motivation in a quote by President David O. McKay. He said, “What you sincerely in your heart think of Christ will determine what you are, will largely determine what your acts will be.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1951, p. 93.) In other words, what people do or don’t do in a situation will depend on the understanding they have of the reality and role of Christ and upon the degree of loyalty and love they have for him. (C. Max Caldwell, Ensign Magazine, Feb. 1984)

President Hinckley said it this way: “When [an individual] is motivated by great and powerful convictions of truth, then he disciplines himself, not because of demands made by the Church but because of the knowledge within his heart.” Are we sufficiently motivated by “great and powerful convictions of truth”? (Neil L. Andersen, Ensign Magazine, May 2007)

Another Lds writer talked about being in awe of the atonement as motivation enough. Ballard, below, mentions love, testimony, gratitude, a new gospel:

Our love for the Lord and appreciation for the Restoration of the gospel are all the motivation we need to share what gives us much joy and happiness. If you are truly motivated by love and testimony and gratitude, you will quite naturally do all that you can to assist the Lord in “[bringing] to pass the immortality and eternal life” (Moses 1:39) of our Father’s children. (M. Russell Ballard, Ensign Magazine, May 2006, “Creating a Gospel-Sharing Home”)

Ballard mentions Moses 1:39, so let me quote it: For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1:39) [Note: By the Way, I would hope that every Mormon notes that this verse emphasizes that it’s GOD who does the work to yield eternal life in people – not us. It’s HIS glory (not ours) -- and therefore disqualifies ANYBODY seeking godhood glory for themselves.]

Also, sometimes a desire by a given Mormon could be to do what Ballard says – “assist the Lord in ‘bringing to pass…eternal life’” to another…yet strays too far, like Lds “prophet” John Taylor talking about how Mormons are the “saviours of the world.”

One Lds writer cited this as a reason: “Therefore, O ye that embark in the service of God, see that ye serve him with all your heart, might, mind and strength, that ye may stand blameless before God at the last day.” (D&C 4:2.) [Note: On the one hand, it sounds like a “works-based” answer, seeking blamelessness only in ourselves…and I suppose it could be, yet I recognize some Biblical passages which talk about presenting others blameless before God]

Types/categories of motivations recognized by Lds writers (Fear, including fear of punishment; duty/expectations; love for God/Christ; etc.)

My institute teacher once said that there are three primary motivations for obedience. The lowest of these—the telestial motivation, if you will—is fear. We are afraid of the Lord’s punishment for disobedience. This isn’t always compelling because we frequently overlook the consequences of our actions. The terrestrial motivation is duty. We do it because obedience is expected of us by our parents, spouse, friends, or church leaders. This too doesn’t always work because so often selfishness intrudes into our good intentions. The celestial, or purest, motivation is love for Heavenly Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. Now it is only this highest motivation which is compelling enough to keep us totally committed and submissive to the Lord’s will. (Betty Curry Jan. 1988 Ensign Magazine, “Missionary Focus: Assorted Assyrians”)

Motive to succeed; motive to avoid failure: Each member of the Lord’s church should ask himself why he lives God’s commandments and what motivates him to seek the spiritual goals he has set for himself. Remember that fear of punishment, a spiritual motive to avoid failure, is not bad. It is better to obey the commandments because of fear of punishment than to not obey the commandments at all. We will surely be happier if we obey God’s commandments than if we do not, but that happiness will likely be increased if we are motivated to do so by love of virtue rather than by fear of punishment. We will likely find more joy in the achievement of our spiritual goals if we seek them because we want to rather than because we ought to. Why do we strive to achieve spiritual goals? Why do we try to live God’s commandments? The behavior of many people suggests that the motive to succeed and the motive to avoid failure have their counterparts in the spiritual realm. A person with a high spiritual motive to succeed may be characterized by a love of righteousness, a positive force attracting him toward exaltation. He seeks to attain a spiritual standard of excellence. He strives to achieve spiritual goals because he loves the Lord and his commandments. A person with a high spiritual motive to avoid failure may also have a desire to live the commandments. However, he is motivated more by a negative force repelling him away from the punishments of hell than he is by the positive attraction of the rewards of heaven. If he lives the Lord’s commandments, it is because he feels he ought to rather than because he really wants to. (One-time BYU professor of pyschology Kenneth L. Higbee, “Achieving Spiritual Goals … Why?,” Ensign Magazine, November 1971)

External Motivations: Truth in Love to Mormons Ministries points out that Lds cannot turn down callings very easily. Hence, there is among many Mormons this overwhelming sense of obligation where the motivation is primarily externally based [Caution: Don’t try to guess-pinpoint which Lds this includes…you’d be fishing in most cases] Here, let me give you an example by citing one-time Managing Director of Stake Missions Paul H. Dunn. “President Dunn” was a proven Lds “liar for the Lord” – I’ll mention specifics re: that in my next post …go to this article to see what I mean Mormon Leader Fabricates; Reporter Fired: The Story of Elder Paul H. Dunn … anyway, Dunn, I believe, was telling the truth when he wrote: The Church provides the motivation, encouragement, and information to assist the members in doing what the Lord has asked. Organization comes at the stake level with the coordination of full-time and stake missionary work. (Paul H. Dunn and Hartman Rector Jr., “Sharing the Gospel Today: A Conversation with Presidents Paul H. Dunn and Hartman Rector, Jr.,” Ensign Magazine, April 1973)

How external motivations – demands of the church, for example, often interact with works-righteousness – works that boomerang back to us to make us look better or look good: (Example, Lds general authority Dallin Oaks): I learned this lesson as a young man. I was assigned to visit a less-active member, a successful professional many years older than I. Looking back on my actions, I realize that I had very little loving concern for the man I visited. I acted out of duty, with a desire to report 100 percent on my home teaching. One evening, close to the end of a month, I phoned to ask if my companion and I could come right over and visit him. His chastening reply taught me an unforgettable lesson. “No, I don’t believe I want you to come over this evening,” he said. “I’m tired. I’ve already dressed for bed. I am reading, and I am just not willing to be interrupted so that you can report 100 percent on your home teaching this month.” That reply still stings me because I knew he had sensed my selfish motivation. (Dallin Oak, Liahona, January 2002, “Sharing the Gospel”)

The worst answer: Works-based or glory-based reasons:

The scriptures have a word for gospel service “for the sake of riches and honor”; it is “priestcraft.” (Alma 1:16.) Nephi said, “Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.” (2 Ne. 26:29.). In these latter days, we are commanded to “seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion.” (D&C 6:6.) Unfortunately, not all who accomplish works under that heading are really intending to build up Zion or strengthen the faith of the people of God. Other motives can be at work…Although those who serve out of fear of punishment or out of a sense of duty undoubtedly qualify for the blessings of heaven, there are still higher reasons for service. One such higher reason for service is the hope of an eternal reward. This hope—the expectation of enjoying the fruits of our labors—is one of the most powerful sources of motivation. As a reason for service, it necessarily involves faith in God and in the fulfillment of his prophecies. The scriptures are rich in promises of eternal rewards. For example, in a revelation given through the Prophet Joseph Smith in June 1829, the Lord said: “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.” (D&C 14:7.) (Dallin H. Oaks, “Why Do We Serve?,” Ensign, Nov 1984)

Note: Although Jesus indeed does talk about “reward,” wages are what we earn on Earth…and the apostle Paul says the wages we earn are death due to our sin (Rom. 6:23). Hence, sadly Oaks reinforces the boomerang view of some “hope of an eternal reward” based upon “commandment keeping” (D&C 14:7). Oaks sadly even concludes: Although those who serve out of fear of punishment or out of a sense of duty undoubtedly qualify for the blessings of heaven… -- I’m sorry, Mr. Oaks, but Jesus Christ qualifies us for heaven – NOT our service!!!

As you read the following, keep in mind that to a Mormon, “exaltation” = highest level of glory & becoming a god: A person with a high spiritual motive to succeed may be characterized by a love of righteousness, a positive force attracting him toward exaltation. He seeks to attain a spiritual standard of excellence. He strives to achieve spiritual goals because he loves the Lord and his commandments. A person with a high spiritual motive to avoid failure may also have a desire to live the commandments. However, he is motivated more by a negative force repelling him away from the punishments of hell than he is by the positive attraction of the rewards of heaven. If he lives the Lord’s commandments, it is because he feels he ought to rather than because he really wants to. The apostle Paul wrote, “For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Rom. 6:23.) The person with a high motive to avoid failure is motivated primarily by the first part of Paul’s statement, while the person with the high motive to succeed is motivated more by the second part of the statement. Both of these types of people may hate sin and desire to live the Lord’s commandments, but the former hates sin through fear of punishment, whereas the latter hates sin through love of virtue. Although both kinds of people may desire to live the Lord’s commandments, we might expect that they would be more receptive to different types of commandments. The person with a high motive to succeed would be concerned with knowing the things he should do, so that he can do those things to prepare himself for exaltation. (One-time BYU professor of pyschology Kenneth L. Higbee, “Achieving Spiritual Goals … Why?,” Ensign Magazine, November 1971)

Do you see the utter disconnect here? This one-time BYU psych professor cites Rom. 6:23 about eternal life being utterly a “gift” of God…but then twice within the same article talks about commandment-keeping and checklist keeping ”so that he can do those things to prepare himself for exaltation.” (Exaltation in Mormonism is NEVER a free gift; it's pure earned "worthiness" for the Mormon...so it's all about Mormon ritualism & Mormon checklist commandment-keeping)

It's on this note, then, that unfortunately, theologically upside-down passages like 2 Nephi 25:23 & Helaman 12:24 can have a spiritually fatal effect upon internal motivations.

Examples:

The LDS church's media relations manager in Salt Lake City issued a statement to an Idaho newspaper earlier this month that stated: "We must work to our limit and then rely upon the merits, mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel..." IOW, the LDS church expects YOU to do EVERYTHING (the "limit") "before" God kicks in? (Notice the "and then" transition in the statement above). Lds derive this statement from 2 Nephi 25:23:
...ye are saved by grace, AFTER ALL YOU CAN DO." (2 Nephi 25:23) [Mormon, have you done ALL you can do? All YOU can do emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.??? 'Cause this verse says free grace doesn't kick in UNTIL you do -- that's what the plain meaning of the words "AFTER all" equals.]

Likewise, look at Helaman 12:24 in the Book of Mormon: "...may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, according to their WORKS." (Helaman 12:24) [In other words, the Book of Mormon right there teaches that free grace isn't so free after all, because men have to earn it "according to their works." -- and if men want free grace, they have to earn it...Boy, how that turns the word "grace" on its head & may tend to motivate somebody to do a work to earn something that by definition is beyond laboring for!!!]

My challenge to all, Lds & non-Lds alike: Let us examine our own motivations. Do we do anything because we expect eternal kickbacks? Do we pass Jesus' "test" in Luke 17:10 when He said: So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'"

A servant receives no special "worthiness" accommodation for simply responding with what he's supposed to be doing already! There's no celestial glory in that! There's no godhood-earning in that! A key motivation of a servant is to serve our Lord because a Lord has sovereign oversight of us & others! And a grand motive for us to serve Jesus Christ is because, we the Church, are the eternal Bride of Christ, the Bridegroom whom we love! The family that is forever is this one!!!

38 posted on 01/22/2010 2:19:25 AM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian
 
This doctrine states that the LDS god was once a man and that if a Mormon is faithful to the LDS church he or she will become a god.
 
Bah!
 
MORE hateful MORMON bashing!!
 
Can't we all just get along and be CONSERVATIVES here on FR???
 
 
Let's start by singing together...


 
 
 
Praise to the Man!
 
 
Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
 
 

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.
 
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with
Gods
, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

39 posted on 01/22/2010 3:32:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Godzilla
 
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God...

 
John 6

28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered,
"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."


40 posted on 01/22/2010 3:34:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw
 
Everything ldsers say is invalidated by this statement alone.
 
Bah!
You should KNOW better than to take things out of context!


 

 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
 
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant;
7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth;
15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods;
21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives;
26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost;
28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages;
40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven;
48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation;
51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true;
58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
  1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many awives and bconcubines
  2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
  3 Therefore, aprepare thy heart to receive and bobey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
  4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting acovenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye bdamned; for no one can creject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.
  5 For all who will have a ablessing at my hands shall abide the blaw which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
  6 And as pertaining to the new and aeverlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my bglory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.
  7 And verily I say unto you, that the aconditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, boaths, cvows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and dsealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is eanointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by frevelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this gpower (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this hpower in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the ikeys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
  8 Behold, mine house is a house of aorder, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.
  9 Will I aaccept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?
  10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not aappointed?
  11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father aordained unto you, before the world was?
  12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall acome unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.
  13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by athrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall bnot remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.
  14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.
  15 Therefore, if a aman marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
  16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
  17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.
  18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
  19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.
  20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
  21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
  22 For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
  23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.
  24 This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
  25 aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
  26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the aHoly Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they bcommit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be cdelivered unto the buffetings of dSatan unto the day of eredemption, saith the Lord God.
  27 The ablasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall bnot be cforgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit dmurder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be edamned, saith the Lord.
  28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the alaw of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.
  29 aAbraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.
  30 aAbraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose bloins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the cstars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
  31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of aAbraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.
  32 Go ye, therefore, and do the aworks of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.
  33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.
  34 God acommanded Abraham, and Sarah gave bHagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
  35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, acommanded it.
  36 Abraham was acommanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not bkill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for crighteousness.
  37 Abraham received aconcubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and bJacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their cexaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.
  38 David also received amany wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
  39 aDavid’s wives and concubines were bgiven unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the ckeys of this power; and in none of these things did he dsin against me save in the case of eUriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath ffallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I ggave them unto another, saith the Lord.
  40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an aappointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.
  41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man areceiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy banointing, she hath committed cadultery and shall be destroyed.
  42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has acommitted adultery.
  43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a avow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery.
  44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and agive her unto him that hath not committed badultery but hath been cfaithful; for he shall be made ruler over many.
  45 For I have conferred upon you the akeys and power of the priesthood, wherein I brestore all things, and make known unto you all things in due time.
  46 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you aseal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bbind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you cremit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.
  47 And again, verily I say, whomsoever you bless I will bless, and whomsoever you curse I will acurse, saith the Lord; for I, the Lord, am thy God.
  48 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant Joseph, that whatsoever you give on earth, and to whomsoever you agive any one on earth, by my word and according to my law, it shall be visited with blessings and not cursings, and with my power, saith the Lord, and shall be without condemnation on earth and in heaven.
  49 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be awith thee even unto the bend of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I cseal upon you your dexaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your efather.
  50 Behold, I have seen your asacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your bsacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as I caccepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac.
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.
  57 And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for aSatan bseeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his cexaltation and glory.
  58 Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.
  59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.
  60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.
  61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
  62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
  63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.
  64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
  65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.
  66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.
 
 

41 posted on 01/22/2010 3:38:22 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Vigilanteman
A slow day in Fundyland Captain Ahab?

IS this what is called an ANSWER to the MORMON doctrine?

42 posted on 01/22/2010 3:39:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
 
We all know by now that Catholics and Mormons are going to hell along with all their heretic Muslim buddies.
 
You are SO right!!
 
That's EXACTLY what the MORMON church proclaims!!
 



 

 
 

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 14
 
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C. 
 
   1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
  3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
  4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
  6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
  16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
  17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
  21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
  24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

43 posted on 01/22/2010 3:42:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Te├│filo
 
And what’s wrong with that?
 
Mighty big list you have there; but you left out the IMPORTANT thing:
 
It's non-BIBLICAL!!


KJV
 Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
 
 
 
ANYBODY???
 
Like this fine looking fellow???
 
 
 
 
 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
 13.  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 15.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
 

Like THESE guys??
 
 
 
 
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
 
 


 
Ephesians 2:1-2 
1.  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


 
1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
 
2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
 
2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

44 posted on 01/22/2010 3:44:29 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Larry Lucido
Every political breakfast I go to, I ask who the Mormons are so I don’t have to be seated next to one.

HMMmm...

I do just the OPPOSITE; for I just LOVE sharing SCRIPTURE with folks!


(How am I doing so far in THIS thread??)

45 posted on 01/22/2010 3:47:04 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
...the problem's been that we just won't stay "dead..."

You'd BETTER stay that way; or folks will think you've just shown up from HAITI!


And, if you AIN'T really dead; then how would a MORMON vicariously get baptised FOR you to give you yet one more chance at SALVATION?


 
"We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to be saviors for them by being baptized for them in the flesh, that they may live according to God in the Spirit."
 
 
--LDS Prophet John Taylor,
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870  (March 20,1870)
 


"...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..."
 
 
--Lds Prophet John Taylor,
Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163
 
 
 

On February 16, 1849, Brigham Young stated to the Twelve,

 “As God was, so are we now; as he is now, so shall we be.”

  "One of the greatest blessings of the restored gospel is the knowledge that we can become perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect.

  "We know that through living certain principles we can approach perfection.

  "In fact we are told that by taking the gospel to others and bringing them to repentance, by doing genealogy and temple work, and by living Christ-like lives, we can come to stand as saviors on Mount Zion.

  "By freely giving his life, Christ, and Christ alone, atoned for all mankind.

  "We have the opportunity of aiding others to accept his love and his sacrifice—the gift of the atonement—and thereby aid in the work of exalting the human family, becoming saviors on Mount Zion."

(Manuscript History.)

 





Becoming a savior for others is not an easy task...

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=078518e7c379b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

 

46 posted on 01/22/2010 3:54:24 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
That's what happens when you can have women at a whim...Smith even nabbed 11-12 wives of already-married women!



 
 
 
Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?
 
Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?
 
Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.
 
Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!
 
Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!
 
 
Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"
 
 
Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!
 
 
 
 
 

 
...and the rest is HISTORY...
 

 
 
 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even HERE:
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.



 
 
Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!
 
Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!
 
 


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.

47 posted on 01/22/2010 3:55:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: T Minus Four
Waiting for the usual crowd to show up and attack you personally. I’m interested to see if they have the guts to defend this doctrine.

Well; we're up to #33 and I've not seen ANY defense yet!

48 posted on 01/22/2010 3:57:41 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
We will likely find more joy in the achievement of our spiritual goals if we seek them because we want to rather than because we ought to. … Why do we strive to achieve spiritual goals? Why do we try to live God’s commandments? The behavior of many people suggests that the motive to succeed and the motive to avoid failure have their counterparts in the spiritual realm.

 

John 6

28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered,
"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Galatians 3

1. You foolish Galatians MORMONs! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

 
WHY, indeed!

49 posted on 01/22/2010 4:01:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
...Catholics and Mormons are going to hell...
 
Well; SURELY not the MORMONs!!

 

MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 
                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
                            -- all you have is a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
 
Revision 46.1
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.

Why can't the RESTORED gospel be found in the Book of MORMON; like Salt Lake City SAYS that it can?

50 posted on 01/22/2010 4:06:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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