Posted on 01/24/2010 1:32:01 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o
The controversy over Pope Pius XII's actions during World War II was recently reignited when... Riccardo Pacifici, president of Rome's Jewish community, told [Pope Benedict] : "The silence of Pius XII before the Shoah still hurts because something should have been done." [snip]
To what extent, if any, does the evidence back up these allegations, which have been repeated since the early 1960s?
On April 4, 1933, Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli, the Vatican secretary of state, instructed the papal nuncio in Germany to see what he could do to oppose the Nazis.
On behalf of Pope Pius XI, Cardinal Pacelli drafted an encyclical, entitled "Mit brennender Sorge" ("With Burning Anxiety"), that condemned Nazi doctrines and persecution of the Catholic Church. The encyclical was smuggled into Germany and read from Catholic pulpits on March 21, 1937.
[snip] March 26, 1937, Hans Dieckhoff, an official in the German foreign ministry, wrote that the "encyclical contains attacks of the severest nature upon the German government, calls upon Catholic citizens to rebel against the authority of the state, and therefore signifies an attempt to endanger internal peace."
[snip] On March 4, Joseph Goebbels, the German propaganda minister, wrote: "the Fuehrer... is considering whether we should abrogate the concordat with Rome in light of Pacelli's election as pope."
[snip] After studying Pius XII's 1942 Christmas message, the Reich Central Security Office concluded: "In a manner never known before the pope has repudiated the National Socialist New European Order ... Here he is virtually accusing the German people of injustice toward the Jews and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals."
[snip] Perhaps only in a backward world such as ours would the one man who did more than any other wartime leader to help Jews and other Nazi victims, receive the greatest condemnation.
(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...
Nice to see this.
Move along...no story here. < /sarcasm>
Guess who defend this Pope Hareetz newspaper one top leftist newspaper in Israel
That tell you something
The kindest thing that can be said about Pope Pius XII, was that he was a mediocrity. And that is if you are in a generous mood.
It looks as if it’s a guest writer rather than one of their regular reporters, but it’s still a good sign that they invited him to write this or agreed to publish it.
I think that religious Jews and Catholics can come to an understanding on issues like this one. It’s the leftist secularists who have been pushing this nonsense about Pope Pius XII, in order to undermine both Catholics and religious Jews. They want to drive wedges between the various religious groups—Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish—in order to weaken them. It’s the usual left-wing propaganda technique. Keep repeating a lie; divide and conquer.
I read article on Hareetz wire just now LOL!
When it seems that there is a concerted effort to divide the Judeo-Chrisian world, the question becomes, “Who benefits?”
I can think of a large militant religious group that would benefit by weakening any/all of the Jews, Catholics and Protestants. And the secular socialists/communists, as well...
Reading the Holy Scriptures, we know how the story ends, but we are certainly stronger, united, and can together help protect the innocents.
As your comment suggests, “who benefits” and who is responsible for doing it may be two separate groups. It is the left wing secularists who are working so hard to divide Catholics from Jews and Protestants, Catholics, and Jews from one another, because they THINK they will profit from the diminishment of religion in our country and in the West.
That is a false hope, of course. A western world without religion would quickly decay and fall to pieces. And the most obvious beneficiaries of that collapse, who would come in and pick up the pieces, are the Muslims.
We see the left cozying up to the jihadists constantly, because they hate their own country and its traditional values. They little realize what the consequences would be if they succeeded. They would be the first to go.
Yes, opposed by some mediocrities:
"The election of Cardinal Pacelli is not accepted with favor in Germany because he was always opposed to Nazism." The day after Pius XII's election (March 3, 1939) in the Nazi newspaper, Berliner Morganpost
And supported by other mediocrities:
"Above all, we acknowledge the Supreme Pontiff and the religious men and women who, executing the directives of the Holy Father, recognized the persecuted as their brothers and, with great abnegation, hastened to help them, disregarding the terrible dangers to which they were exposed." September 1945, Dr. Joseph Nathan, representing the Italian Hebrew Commission.
"We share in the grief of humanity. …When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the Pope was raised for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace." Golda Meir, in 1958, at the death of Pope Pius XII
and
"Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. …The Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom." Albert Einstein, in Time magazine (December 23, 1940)
Good points. Thanks for clarifying my fuzzier remarks.
Right now, the secular socialists/communists are making temporary truce with the Moslems, having partially understood the statement, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” without realizing that “friend” has a strictly situational meaning.
The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.
If he had been jailed I would have been his STRONGEST supporter. He wasn’t and I have no respect for him.
I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.
Perhaps need is not the proper verb here.
Ping test.
You wrote:
“The kindest thing that can be said about Pope Pius XII, was that he was a mediocrity.”
Saving thousands of Jews is not mediocrity. Perhaps your life is mediocrity. Mine most certainly is compared to all the things Pius XII did. No one who knows anything about Pius XII can call him a mediocrity.
Certainly the Jews didn’t think Pius XII was a mediocrity: http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/PIUS12GS.HTM
John has a long mustache
Do you know what a mediocrity is? In terms of Popes, Pius XII was a mediocrity. That is not so bad as you might think.
You wrote:
“The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.”
You need to know more. He gave up his house to shelter Jews - hundreds of them. Did you know that? Or would you file that under “want to Know” and therefore think it useless info?
“I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.”
The difference is we actually know what we’re talking about because we’ve all done research. Your attitude is that you only “need” to know a few things. Maybe the issue isn’t changing your mind. Maybe the issue is opening it.
You wrote:
“Do you know what a mediocrity is?”
Yeah, I may be looking at his posts right now.
“In terms of Popes, Pius XII was a mediocrity.”
According to what standard? He published great and important encyclicals, saved up to 860,000 Jews, was beloved by the world’s Christians, and respected by non-Catholics for his service to God and man. How does that make him mediocre as a pope?
“That is not so bad as you might think.”
You’re not making any sense.
The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.
If he had been jailed I would have been his STRONGEST supporter. He wasn’t and I have no respect for him.
I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.
And again:
You wrote:
“The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.”
You need to know more. He gave up his house to shelter Jews - hundreds of them. Did you know that? Or would you file that under “want to Know” and therefore think it useless info?
“I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.”
The difference is we actually know what we’re talking about because we’ve all done research. Your attitude is that you only “need” to know a few things. Maybe the issue isn’t changing your mind. Maybe the issue is opening it.
Maybe you should change your nickname from MarkAccord to BrokenRecord or perhaps MediOcre.
A lot of facts in the NY Times column. Their reporting was more thorough in those days, even though privately they really didn’t like Catholics. But they didn’t let that bias or wreck their story, the way they would in later days.
The Germans were extremely unhappy about Pius XII’s election, because he had been outspoken on the dangers of Naziism. As Secretary of State at the Vatican, he had been chiefly responsible for writing the encyclical, Mit Brenende Sorge, that was released under the name of his predecessor, Pius XI. It was basically a warning against Hitler and what he stood for, and it was, unusually, published in German rather than the usual Latin (which is then translated into other languages). I would suggest that anyone who imagines that Pope Pius was “Hitler’s Pope” should look up that encyclical on the internet and read it.
That makes him a Nazi sympathizer?
Are you making a point that addresses the article?
Are you making a point at all?
Are you awake?
I certainly don’t think Pope Pius XII deserves to be made a Saint. But that is up to your church as I am not Catholic.
I have no evidence to believe he was a Nazi sympathizer , so please do not put words in my mouth.
But how does saving thousands of Jews make him mediocre?
EXACTLY why was he mediocre?
I’m done.
I think we all knew that already.
In other words, you can’t explain why this heroic man was mediocre?
Where he was, he saved between 700,000 and 860,000 Jewish lives.
That's not my number, that's the number computed by the Israeli diplomat, Pinchas Lapide.
What do you think he would have been able to do for the Jews in a prison cell?
What you are saying amounts to, "Pius XII didn't do enough to justify himself in my eyes". So what? He wasn't out to justify himself, but to do the will of God.
If Pope Pius XII had been jailed, he would have acted like Jesus in my eyes. Maybe that is too high a standard.
“If Pope Pius XII had been jailed, he would have acted like Jesus in my eyes.”
Fully expecting to be seized by the Nazis, Venerable Pope Pius XII made arrangements that his resignation would be effective upon his capture, and a conclave would then be ordered to be held in territory not occupied by the Nazis.
However, even though Hitler gave the order to kidnap and imprison Venerable Pope Pius XII, the orders were not carried out in Rome by the Nazi official in charge.
It appears that only by the grace of God was he not arrested and imprisoned.
You hold that against him? That God miraculously spared him this? Do you think that perhaps God did that so that Pope Pius could continue to do his work, saving Jews?
sitetest
Venerable Pope Pius XII. I like that a lot. I think I’ll add that to our daily prayers for intercession, along with Venerable Pope John Paul II and Venerable Father McGivney. (We’ve had Fr. McGivney for years, but he’s just recently become Venerable ;-).
Gosh, it’s hard to make changes, though. We’re still saying, “St. Francis Xavier, pray for all the poor in India,” even though our current seminarian and orphan child are in Ethiopia. I suppose we could change it to “Africa and Asia.”
Pope Pius XII should be named a saint.
The most important reason is that impugning him has been used as a way to impugn Christianity since World War II, and naming him a saint is a way to fight back against that destructive effort.
Lord love him. The Jews blessed him, blessed him in 1945. We need many, many more like him today.
Can we say that Pope Pius XII was a good man, but not a Saint? I would probably sign onto that.
Do you realize that he melted down hundreds of pounds of gold vessels and ornaments and GAVE the gold to the Jews of Rome to bribe the Nazis with so they wouldn't all be rounded up and sent to concentration camps?
Do you realize that he spent vast sums of money arranging false passports and baptismal certificates for Jews, hiding them from the Nazis, supporting them all during the war?
Seems to me that you've made up your mind and don't want to be confused with the facts.
That's your loss, but please refrain from publicly criticising a good man about whom you know nothing. It just makes you look rather foolish.
Wonder what, in your generous mood, you'd call Schindler, who only saved 1200 and was hailed by the lefties in Hollywood as a hero.
These reports (here and here) are encouraging, but do not at all guarantee that a miracle can be confirmed. The Church seeks the input of independent experts, including atheists and agnostics, and believe me, it's rare for a medical investigator to say "This is really inexplicable." Relatively few get through the vetting process.
These were in fact legible, even to my old eyes, but if you get the technical abiility to make them even clearer, please post them again and let me know because I want to use them whenever I can.
“leftists, secularists”? The term is “COMMUNISTS”.
Well, to be technical, Communists, fellow travelers, and useful idiots.
Welcome to FR.
When you get to be responsible for saving 860,000 people from a mass-murdering madman, you might (maybe) have sufficient credibility to criticize Pope Pius XII.
Until then ...
Your opinions are mere flatulence.
KGB stooges have crawled out of the woodwork again.
Kudos to Haaretz for printing this defense of Ven. Pope Pius XII.
Although I would have wished Pope Pius XII had riegned in the Croatian Church, which did support the Ustashe, the numbers are irrefutable. Pius XII risked his life and the independence of the RCC to protect those the Nazis tried to exterminate.
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