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Much-maligned pontiff (Pope Pius XII defended in a leading Israeli newspaper, HAARETZ)
Haaretz ^ | Sun., January 24, 2010 - Shvat 9, 5770 | Dimitri Cavalli

Posted on 01/24/2010 1:32:01 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o

The controversy over Pope Pius XII's actions during World War II was recently reignited when... Riccardo Pacifici, president of Rome's Jewish community, told [Pope Benedict] : "The silence of Pius XII before the Shoah still hurts because something should have been done." [snip]

To what extent, if any, does the evidence back up these allegations, which have been repeated since the early 1960s?

On April 4, 1933, Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli, the Vatican secretary of state, instructed the papal nuncio in Germany to see what he could do to oppose the Nazis.

On behalf of Pope Pius XI, Cardinal Pacelli drafted an encyclical, entitled "Mit brennender Sorge" ("With Burning Anxiety"), that condemned Nazi doctrines and persecution of the Catholic Church. The encyclical was smuggled into Germany and read from Catholic pulpits on March 21, 1937.

[snip] March 26, 1937, Hans Dieckhoff, an official in the German foreign ministry, wrote that the "encyclical contains attacks of the severest nature upon the German government, calls upon Catholic citizens to rebel against the authority of the state, and therefore signifies an attempt to endanger internal peace."

[snip] On March 4, Joseph Goebbels, the German propaganda minister, wrote: "the Fuehrer... is considering whether we should abrogate the concordat with Rome in light of Pacelli's election as pope."

[snip] After studying Pius XII's 1942 Christmas message, the Reich Central Security Office concluded: "In a manner never known before the pope has repudiated the National Socialist New European Order ... Here he is virtually accusing the German people of injustice toward the Jews and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals."

[snip] Perhaps only in a backward world such as ours would the one man who did more than any other wartime leader to help Jews and other Nazi victims, receive the greatest condemnation.

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; History; Judaism
KEYWORDS: canonization; holocaust; piusxii; righteousgentile
Hey, hey.
1 posted on 01/24/2010 1:32:01 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o
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To: presidio9; AnAmericanMother; TheThirdRuffian; VanDeKoik; GovernmentShrinker; blu; gaslucas1; ...

Nice to see this.


2 posted on 01/24/2010 1:34:03 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. " George Orwell)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Move along...no story here. < /sarcasm>


3 posted on 01/24/2010 1:40:40 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: NYer; monkapotamus; wagglebee; All

Guess who defend this Pope Hareetz newspaper one top leftist newspaper in Israel

That tell you something


4 posted on 01/24/2010 1:49:37 PM PST by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: SevenofNine

The kindest thing that can be said about Pope Pius XII, was that he was a mediocrity. And that is if you are in a generous mood.


5 posted on 01/24/2010 1:56:39 PM PST by MarkAccord
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To: Mrs. Don-o

It looks as if it’s a guest writer rather than one of their regular reporters, but it’s still a good sign that they invited him to write this or agreed to publish it.

I think that religious Jews and Catholics can come to an understanding on issues like this one. It’s the leftist secularists who have been pushing this nonsense about Pope Pius XII, in order to undermine both Catholics and religious Jews. They want to drive wedges between the various religious groups—Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish—in order to weaken them. It’s the usual left-wing propaganda technique. Keep repeating a lie; divide and conquer.


6 posted on 01/24/2010 2:05:58 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: MarkAccord

I read article on Hareetz wire just now LOL!


7 posted on 01/24/2010 2:09:27 PM PST by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: Cicero

When it seems that there is a concerted effort to divide the Judeo-Chrisian world, the question becomes, “Who benefits?”

I can think of a large militant religious group that would benefit by weakening any/all of the Jews, Catholics and Protestants. And the secular socialists/communists, as well...

Reading the Holy Scriptures, we know how the story ends, but we are certainly stronger, united, and can together help protect the innocents.


8 posted on 01/24/2010 2:11:35 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne

As your comment suggests, “who benefits” and who is responsible for doing it may be two separate groups. It is the left wing secularists who are working so hard to divide Catholics from Jews and Protestants, Catholics, and Jews from one another, because they THINK they will profit from the diminishment of religion in our country and in the West.

That is a false hope, of course. A western world without religion would quickly decay and fall to pieces. And the most obvious beneficiaries of that collapse, who would come in and pick up the pieces, are the Muslims.

We see the left cozying up to the jihadists constantly, because they hate their own country and its traditional values. They little realize what the consequences would be if they succeeded. They would be the first to go.


9 posted on 01/24/2010 2:19:34 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: MarkAccord
A mediocrity?

Yes, opposed by some mediocrities:

"The election of Cardinal Pacelli is not accepted with favor in Germany because he was always opposed to Nazism." The day after Pius XII's election (March 3, 1939) in the Nazi newspaper, Berliner Morganpost

And supported by other mediocrities:

"Above all, we acknowledge the Supreme Pontiff and the religious men and women who, executing the directives of the Holy Father, recognized the persecuted as their brothers and, with great abnegation, hastened to help them, disregarding the terrible dangers to which they were exposed." September 1945, Dr. Joseph Nathan, representing the Italian Hebrew Commission.

"We share in the grief of humanity. …When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the Pope was raised for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace." Golda Meir, in 1958, at the death of Pope Pius XII

and

"Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. …The Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom." Albert Einstein, in Time magazine (December 23, 1940)

10 posted on 01/24/2010 2:30:44 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. " George Orwell)
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To: Cicero

Good points. Thanks for clarifying my fuzzier remarks.

Right now, the secular socialists/communists are making temporary truce with the Moslems, having partially understood the statement, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” without realizing that “friend” has a strictly situational meaning.


11 posted on 01/24/2010 2:43:50 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.

If he had been jailed I would have been his STRONGEST supporter. He wasn’t and I have no respect for him.

I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.


12 posted on 01/24/2010 2:44:28 PM PST by MarkAccord
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To: MarkAccord
The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.

Perhaps need is not the proper verb here.

13 posted on 01/24/2010 2:45:57 PM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Cicero; Judith Anne; Petronski
FWIW, here is a link to the Times' coverage of the election of Pius XII. There is a story that talks about German reaction. (The reproduction is not of the best quality. I was still getting the hang of the process. But it is legible.)

NY Times 3/3/39

14 posted on 01/24/2010 3:05:43 PM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: don-o

Ping test.


15 posted on 01/24/2010 3:06:24 PM PST by Rocky (Obama's ego: The "I's" have it.)
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To: MarkAccord

You wrote:

“The kindest thing that can be said about Pope Pius XII, was that he was a mediocrity.”

Saving thousands of Jews is not mediocrity. Perhaps your life is mediocrity. Mine most certainly is compared to all the things Pius XII did. No one who knows anything about Pius XII can call him a mediocrity.

Certainly the Jews didn’t think Pius XII was a mediocrity: http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/PIUS12GS.HTM


16 posted on 01/24/2010 3:07:23 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Rocky

John has a long mustache


17 posted on 01/24/2010 3:11:36 PM PST by don-o (My son, Ben - Marine Lance Corporal is in Iraq.)
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To: vladimir998

Do you know what a mediocrity is? In terms of Popes, Pius XII was a mediocrity. That is not so bad as you might think.


18 posted on 01/24/2010 3:11:46 PM PST by MarkAccord
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To: MarkAccord

You wrote:

“The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.”

You need to know more. He gave up his house to shelter Jews - hundreds of them. Did you know that? Or would you file that under “want to Know” and therefore think it useless info?

“I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.”

The difference is we actually know what we’re talking about because we’ve all done research. Your attitude is that you only “need” to know a few things. Maybe the issue isn’t changing your mind. Maybe the issue is opening it.


19 posted on 01/24/2010 3:12:32 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: MarkAccord

You wrote:

“Do you know what a mediocrity is?”

Yeah, I may be looking at his posts right now.

“In terms of Popes, Pius XII was a mediocrity.”

According to what standard? He published great and important encyclicals, saved up to 860,000 Jews, was beloved by the world’s Christians, and respected by non-Catholics for his service to God and man. How does that make him mediocre as a pope?

“That is not so bad as you might think.”

You’re not making any sense.


20 posted on 01/24/2010 3:15:10 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998

The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.

If he had been jailed I would have been his STRONGEST supporter. He wasn’t and I have no respect for him.

I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.


21 posted on 01/24/2010 3:16:25 PM PST by MarkAccord
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To: MarkAccord

And again:

You wrote:

“The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.”

You need to know more. He gave up his house to shelter Jews - hundreds of them. Did you know that? Or would you file that under “want to Know” and therefore think it useless info?

“I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.”

The difference is we actually know what we’re talking about because we’ve all done research. Your attitude is that you only “need” to know a few things. Maybe the issue isn’t changing your mind. Maybe the issue is opening it.

Maybe you should change your nickname from MarkAccord to BrokenRecord or perhaps MediOcre.


22 posted on 01/24/2010 3:19:03 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

A lot of facts in the NY Times column. Their reporting was more thorough in those days, even though privately they really didn’t like Catholics. But they didn’t let that bias or wreck their story, the way they would in later days.

The Germans were extremely unhappy about Pius XII’s election, because he had been outspoken on the dangers of Naziism. As Secretary of State at the Vatican, he had been chiefly responsible for writing the encyclical, Mit Brenende Sorge, that was released under the name of his predecessor, Pius XI. It was basically a warning against Hitler and what he stood for, and it was, unusually, published in German rather than the usual Latin (which is then translated into other languages). I would suggest that anyone who imagines that Pope Pius was “Hitler’s Pope” should look up that encyclical on the internet and read it.


23 posted on 01/24/2010 3:33:15 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: MarkAccord

That makes him a Nazi sympathizer?

Are you making a point that addresses the article?

Are you making a point at all?

Are you awake?


24 posted on 01/24/2010 3:39:36 PM PST by DPMD (~)
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To: DPMD

I certainly don’t think Pope Pius XII deserves to be made a Saint. But that is up to your church as I am not Catholic.

I have no evidence to believe he was a Nazi sympathizer , so please do not put words in my mouth.


25 posted on 01/24/2010 3:43:18 PM PST by MarkAccord
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To: MarkAccord

But how does saving thousands of Jews make him mediocre?

EXACTLY why was he mediocre?


26 posted on 01/24/2010 3:49:10 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998

I’m done.


27 posted on 01/24/2010 3:50:01 PM PST by MarkAccord
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To: MarkAccord

I think we all knew that already.


28 posted on 01/24/2010 3:51:09 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: MarkAccord

In other words, you can’t explain why this heroic man was mediocre?


29 posted on 01/24/2010 3:51:57 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: MarkAccord
If he had been jailed I would have been his STRONGEST supporter.

Where he was, he saved between 700,000 and 860,000 Jewish lives.

That's not my number, that's the number computed by the Israeli diplomat, Pinchas Lapide.

What do you think he would have been able to do for the Jews in a prison cell?

What you are saying amounts to, "Pius XII didn't do enough to justify himself in my eyes". So what? He wasn't out to justify himself, but to do the will of God.

30 posted on 01/24/2010 3:54:04 PM PST by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: Campion

If Pope Pius XII had been jailed, he would have acted like Jesus in my eyes. Maybe that is too high a standard.


31 posted on 01/24/2010 3:57:03 PM PST by MarkAccord
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To: MarkAccord
Dear MarkAccord,

“If Pope Pius XII had been jailed, he would have acted like Jesus in my eyes.”

Fully expecting to be seized by the Nazis, Venerable Pope Pius XII made arrangements that his resignation would be effective upon his capture, and a conclave would then be ordered to be held in territory not occupied by the Nazis.

However, even though Hitler gave the order to kidnap and imprison Venerable Pope Pius XII, the orders were not carried out in Rome by the Nazi official in charge.

It appears that only by the grace of God was he not arrested and imprisoned.

You hold that against him? That God miraculously spared him this? Do you think that perhaps God did that so that Pope Pius could continue to do his work, saving Jews?


sitetest

32 posted on 01/24/2010 4:16:35 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

Venerable Pope Pius XII. I like that a lot. I think I’ll add that to our daily prayers for intercession, along with Venerable Pope John Paul II and Venerable Father McGivney. (We’ve had Fr. McGivney for years, but he’s just recently become Venerable ;-).

Gosh, it’s hard to make changes, though. We’re still saying, “St. Francis Xavier, pray for all the poor in India,” even though our current seminarian and orphan child are in Ethiopia. I suppose we could change it to “Africa and Asia.”


33 posted on 01/24/2010 4:53:19 PM PST by Tax-chick (I haven't tried it, myself, but I'm told it's a delicacy in Japan.)
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To: MarkAccord

Pope Pius XII should be named a saint.

The most important reason is that impugning him has been used as a way to impugn Christianity since World War II, and naming him a saint is a way to fight back against that destructive effort.


34 posted on 01/24/2010 6:20:40 PM PST by Dr. North
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To: MarkAccord
Pope Pius XII sheltered the hunted Jewish men, women and children, including babies, in his residence in Rome and at Castelgandalfo, and instructed religious houses, monasteries, rectories and convents to break cloister, forge indentity papers, elude the Gestapo, and do whatever it took to accomplish the same. His motto could have been summarized in: "Less talk, more action" or "Practice before preaching."

Lord love him. The Jews blessed him, blessed him in 1945. We need many, many more like him today.

35 posted on 01/24/2010 6:53:56 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. " George Orwell)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Can we say that Pope Pius XII was a good man, but not a Saint? I would probably sign onto that.


36 posted on 01/24/2010 7:22:15 PM PST by MarkAccord
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: MarkAccord
Living like a king?

Do you realize that he melted down hundreds of pounds of gold vessels and ornaments and GAVE the gold to the Jews of Rome to bribe the Nazis with so they wouldn't all be rounded up and sent to concentration camps?

Do you realize that he spent vast sums of money arranging false passports and baptismal certificates for Jews, hiding them from the Nazis, supporting them all during the war?

Seems to me that you've made up your mind and don't want to be confused with the facts.

That's your loss, but please refrain from publicly criticising a good man about whom you know nothing. It just makes you look rather foolish.

38 posted on 01/24/2010 7:47:08 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: MarkAccord
The kindest thing that can be said about Pope Pius XII, was that he was a mediocrity. And that is if you are in a generous mood.

860,000

Wonder what, in your generous mood, you'd call Schindler, who only saved 1200 and was hailed by the lefties in Hollywood as a hero.

39 posted on 01/24/2010 8:27:11 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: MarkAccord
We may be more in agreement than you realize, MarkAccord. The Church herself is not willing to say anything more about any man of upright reputation who has passed away, even a pope, except that "he was a good man" (conferring a title like "Servant of God") unless God confirms his favor via a miracle. We are still waiting to hear God's testimony.

These reports (here and here) are encouraging, but do not at all guarantee that a miracle can be confirmed. The Church seeks the input of independent experts, including atheists and agnostics, and believe me, it's rare for a medical investigator to say "This is really inexplicable." Relatively few get through the vetting process.

40 posted on 01/25/2010 7:24:09 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; MarkAccord
Thank you --- this is immensely interesting. I have never seen these newspaper clippings before. Clearly, the Nazis had him pegged as an enemy from Day One --- and good Lord, he was carrying out clandestine rescue activities right under their noses!

These were in fact legible, even to my old eyes, but if you get the technical abiility to make them even clearer, please post them again and let me know because I want to use them whenever I can.

41 posted on 01/25/2010 7:31:10 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: Cicero

“leftists, secularists”? The term is “COMMUNISTS”.


42 posted on 01/25/2010 7:52:49 AM PST by captbarney
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To: captbarney

Well, to be technical, Communists, fellow travelers, and useful idiots.


43 posted on 01/25/2010 8:19:31 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: MarkAccord
If he had been jailed I would have been his STRONGEST supporter. He wasn’t and I have no respect for him.

Welcome to FR.

When you get to be responsible for saving 860,000 people from a mass-murdering madman, you might (maybe) have sufficient credibility to criticize Pope Pius XII.

Until then ...

Your opinions are mere flatulence.

44 posted on 01/25/2010 8:25:33 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Petronski
860,000

KGB stooges have crawled out of the woodwork again.

Kudos to Haaretz for printing this defense of Ven. Pope Pius XII.

45 posted on 01/25/2010 8:32:37 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
If only there were 7 more such "antisemites", no Jews would have died.

Although I would have wished Pope Pius XII had riegned in the Croatian Church, which did support the Ustashe, the numbers are irrefutable. Pius XII risked his life and the independence of the RCC to protect those the Nazis tried to exterminate.

46 posted on 01/25/2010 8:27:27 PM PST by rmlew (Democracy tends to ignore..., threats to its existence because it loathes doing what is needed)
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