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Scott Roeder Convicted of Murdering Dr. George Tiller, ELCA Member
ELCA News Service ^ | 29 January AD 2010 | Melissa Ramirez-Cooper

Posted on 01/29/2010 1:48:24 PM PST by lightman

Scott Roeder Convicted of Murdering Dr. George Tiller, ELCA Member

10-041-MRC

CHICAGO (ELCA) -- A Kansas jury convicted Scott Roeder of first-degree murder Jan. 29. Roeder gunned down Dr. George Tiller, a member of Reformation Lutheran Church, Wichita, Kan., in the church foyer before Sunday service May 31. Tiller was one of a few physicians in the United States who performed late-term abortions and was often targeted by anti-abortion protests. Reformation is a congregation of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA).

According to CNN Roeder testified that he shot Tiller to protect unborn children. He said he had no regrets in killing Tiller.

Members of Reformation testified that they had seen Roeder at church several times before the day he shot Tiller at point-blank range in the head.

Roeder, 51, Kansas City, Mo., faces life in prison.

- - - Information about Reformation Lutheran Church is at http://www.reformation-lutheran.org/ on the Web.

For information contact: John Brooks, Director (773) 380-2958 or news@elca.org

http://www.elca.org/news

Twitter: http://twitter.com/elcanews


TOPICS: Current Events; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionists; elca; lutheran; moralabsolutes; prolife; roeder; tiller
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Exactly one week after the 37th anniversary of Roe v. Wade.

Kyrie Eleison.

1 posted on 01/29/2010 1:48:25 PM PST by lightman
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To: aberaussie; Aeronaut; aliquando; AlternateViewpoint; AnalogReigns; Archie Bunker on steroids; ...


Lutheran (EL C S*A) Ping!

* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.

2 posted on 01/29/2010 1:49:16 PM PST by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman

I am not sure how I feel about this.


3 posted on 01/29/2010 1:49:59 PM PST by Ronin
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To: wagglebee; little jeremiah

Moral Absolutes & Pro-life ping.


4 posted on 01/29/2010 1:50:03 PM PST by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman
He said he had no regrets in killing Tiller

REPENT!! or spend a lot of time with Tiller in eternity.

5 posted on 01/29/2010 1:51:27 PM PST by 11th Commandment (History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme - Mark Twain)
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To: Ronin

Murder is not a remedy. Being surrounded by great evil is a consequence of the human condition, while at the same time being surrounded by manifold expressions of the works of a loving, gracious and forgiving God.


6 posted on 01/29/2010 1:54:50 PM PST by Elsiejay (.)
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To: Ronin
My ambivalence is exacerbated by a fondness for the writings of 20th century German Pastor Dietrich Bonhoffer, who wrote of the Third Reich and its Fuehrer:

"If I see that a madman is driving a car into a group of innocent bystanders, then I can't as a Christian simply wait, comfort the wounded and bury the dead. I must try to wrest the steering wheel out of the hands of the madman.

There is no doubt that Dr. Tiller was a madman. However, a gunman who takes the law into his own hands and violates holy space on the holy day of Pentecost is equally mad.

7 posted on 01/29/2010 1:55:33 PM PST by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: Ronin
I know how I feel about it. Tiller was a murderer who got his by being murdered.
Roeder thought he was avenging that, okay. Now he should be executed by the state.
8 posted on 01/29/2010 1:56:36 PM PST by onedoug
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To: Elsiejay

In this case and some others I disagree.Think of the number of babies this murdering nazi cannot kill now.Think of the number of babies who would otherwise have met a terrible fate had this guy not been stopped.State sponsored murder of the unborn is no excuse.


9 posted on 01/29/2010 2:03:52 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: imahawk

Off the Record Off the Record

no foul, no harm RSS Facebook Twitter By Diogenes | January 29, 2010 2:14 PM

A Kansas jury needed only 40 minutes to deliberate before delivering a guilty verdict in the murder trial of Scott Roeder, who killed the infamous later-term abortion specialist George Tiller. 

There was never any doubt that Roeder was the man who shot Tiller in the head last May. Roeder even admitted that he had planned the killing. The defendant's lawyers argued only that the criminal charge should be something short of murder-- voluntary manslaughter, perhaps-- because Roeder said that he had killed Roeder in order to save others-- unborn children-- from harm. 

That argument is undermined by the fact that at the actual time of the shooting, Tiller was participating in Sunday services at his Lutheran parish church. But the judge who presided at the trial instructed the jury to disregard the "necessity defense" for another reason as well. The Wall Street Journal reports:

Judge Wilbert said that didn't apply in this case because Dr. Tiller posed no imminent threat to anyone as he stood in his church and because his abortion practice was legal. 

A CNN account provides the judge's actual words:

There is no imminence of danger on a Sunday morning in the back of a church, let alone any unlawful conduct, given that what Tiller did at his clinic Monday through Friday is lawful in Kansas. 

While in church he wasn't a threat; that argument is unanswerable. There was no need, then, for the judge to add a second argument. But he did: He said that abortion cannot be a threat to anyone because it is legal. 

If it's legal, it's not harmful. Think about how that argument applies to:


10 posted on 01/29/2010 2:09:11 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: lightman
As I see it, there are three criminals here.

The abortion doctor.

The abortion doctor's killer.

The most evil of all, the cult that gave aid, comfort and respectability to the abortion doctor.

11 posted on 01/29/2010 2:10:14 PM PST by Redleg Duke
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To: lightman
Since you bring up Hitler...

If "Operation Valkyrie" was a success in killing Hitler, his assassins would today be known as...

Heroes or murderers?

12 posted on 01/29/2010 2:15:00 PM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: onedoug

That’s the point I am troubled with. What’s the difference between a late-term abortionist and a madman gunning down kids in a kindergarten? Not much, in my view.

I don’t know if Roeder thought he was avenging the death of those children or if he was acting, with full knowledge and acceptance of the consequences - both temporal and spiritual - to protect the lives of other children.

One of the most significant differences between Christianity and Islam is, in my view, that Christians do not believe that evil actions are excused if they are performed in God’s name. Christians do not rape, murder, plunder, pillage and burn in the name of Christ. (Not recently, anyhow. I have heard stories about the crusades.)

However, I can see a situation where a Christian might say to himself, “This evil must not stand, even if it results in my death at the hand of the state and eternal damnation at the hands of the Lord.”

I am not saying I believe this is the case here. But I am also not ruling it out.


13 posted on 01/29/2010 2:19:40 PM PST by Ronin
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To: lightman

His moral cause was not dissimilar to that of John Brown. Brown was-—and still is— hailed as martyr by many folks that align themselves with the abortion rights agenda.


14 posted on 01/29/2010 2:25:28 PM PST by yetidog
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To: Bosco
If "Operation Valkyrie" was a success in killing Hitler, his assassins would today be known as...

Heroes or murderers?

Even though the operation failed, the Lutheran church is still left with a variation of that question.

Bonhoffer's death date appears on the Lutheran calendar of Commemorations, a calendar which includes such universally undisputed Saints as Patrick of Ireland and Martyrs such as Polycarp of Symrna.

The calendar rubrics indicate that white vestments are to be used for Saints' Commemorations, red for Martyrs.

So which color should be used for Bonhoffer?

The rubrics say red, but I find that problematic because he did not really die for the Faith.

15 posted on 01/29/2010 2:26:01 PM PST by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman

Well......we’ve got a wack job murder off the streets forever and a evil baby killer pushing up dasies. Sure has the feel of a win-win scenario to me. just sayin.......


16 posted on 01/29/2010 2:33:38 PM PST by circlecity
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To: 11th Commandment

“REPENT!! or spend a lot of time with Tiller in eternity.”

Disagree. Killing in defense of human life isn’t a sin. Some guy pulls a gun in a mall and starts blasting away, and I pull mine and blow him out of his socks.

Am I going to hell?


17 posted on 01/29/2010 2:33:47 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: Ronin
I can't remember how I came to this understanding but ...

Wasn't Roeder basically a passionate man against abortion, albeit non violent .. until he was diagnosed with terminal cancer .... or something like that?

18 posted on 01/29/2010 2:35:41 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: lightman
Scott Roeder

HANG THIS MURDERING JERK.

19 posted on 01/29/2010 2:40:16 PM PST by Dubya (JESUS SAVES)
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To: RinaseaofDs
"Am I going to hell?"

Depends of whether you've repented and accepted Christ with your heart. And that's the same whether you smoke the dude in the mall or not.

20 posted on 01/29/2010 2:41:39 PM PST by circlecity
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To: lightman
Roeder also stated during his testimony, that he had waited to see if KS Health Agency that oversees doctors who ares disobeying the law, KS law enforcement and finally the KS Judiciary, might enforce KS own laws concerning 2nd Trimester abortions (only in cases when the life of the mother is in danger from death or permanent physical injury.)

Roeder stated during his testimony, that at last, he felt that no one with power would force Tiller to obey the law, therefore, he had no choice that in order to save the life of the innocents, he was finally forced to act.

21 posted on 01/29/2010 2:46:52 PM PST by zerosix (A)
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To: circlecity

I’m with you. Yes, I’m saved. Junior year of HS.


22 posted on 01/29/2010 2:48:28 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: lightman
He did do it.
23 posted on 01/29/2010 2:52:44 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: Elsiejay

The Bible says give unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser’s and give to GOD that which is GOD’s.

Babies are GOD’S!

If we had 20 thousands of Scott’s, Doctors would not do the killing of Babies any more.


24 posted on 01/29/2010 2:56:34 PM PST by factmart
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To: lightman

Like I said on the other thread... No matter what you feel about this verdict, and I am sure it will be debated for years to come... one Fact IS final:

George Tiller will never again cut open another child’s head and suck its brains out for profit.


25 posted on 01/29/2010 2:57:15 PM PST by RachelFaith (2010 might be bigger than 1994)
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To: Dubya
”In God’s eyes this Doctor is a murderer. Scott has saved lives and has more guts then me. Will see him in Heaven”

Scott is a believer, and he saved lives, Killing babies is murder. Killing the murderer is justified. He has more guts than me but if tomorrow I only had 2 weeks to live, killing a “tiller” might make me braver. God even forgives murder in tiller case. According to the British during the revolutionary war we were murderers. Scott was even more justified because of babies innocence.

26 posted on 01/29/2010 3:03:34 PM PST by factmart
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To: 11th Commandment

Me thinks Roeder will be forgiven quicker by God than Tiller... doesn’t Tiller fit the profile of a serial killer?


27 posted on 01/29/2010 3:22:45 PM PST by Tuketu (Democrats shall be known as the National Democrat Party - NDP CASE CLOSED)
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To: factmart
No Way Scott is a murdering JERK and he will rot in hell.

Does your Bible say "Do not murder except"?

Mine don't. Scott is a murder and no telling how many he has cause not to be saved because his and some church members

(I didn't call them Christians because they are not Christians)

have and are acting so stupid about this. Scot is a murderer no doubt about it.

28 posted on 01/29/2010 3:29:35 PM PST by Dubya (JESUS SAVES)
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To: Tuketu

I agree. Roeder stopped a serial-killing sociopath who butchered babies for money. Roeder did what we as a society should have done a long time ago: put Tiller out of business.


29 posted on 01/29/2010 3:32:31 PM PST by Minipax
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To: Dubya
No Way Scott is a murdering JERK and he will rot in hell. Does your Bible say "Do not murder except"? Mine don't. Scott is a murder and no telling how many he has cause not to be saved because his and some church members (I didn't call them Christians because they are not Christians) have and are acting so stupid about this. Scot is a murderer no doubt about it.

That was the most poorly written post I've ever read on here. "Mine don't." I can't even tell what you are trying to say. I'm going stick with my own interpretation of Thou Shalt Not do Murder. Is shooting a madman who is getting ready to kill hundreds of babies murder? I don't think so.

30 posted on 01/29/2010 3:39:36 PM PST by Minipax
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I will look at ROEDER as one of the inglorious basterds.


31 posted on 01/29/2010 3:43:28 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: Minipax

Murder is murder no matter how you try justify it. You say bad things about me (It fits right in with you saying its alright to murder some people, have fun)I don’t care I just consider the source.


32 posted on 01/29/2010 3:58:39 PM PST by Dubya (JESUS SAVES)
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To: factmart

What made Tiller more of a murderer than a pharmacist that dispenses abortion pills?


33 posted on 01/29/2010 4:08:10 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: lightman

Perhaps Bonhoeffer is a (non-Orthodox) passion-bearer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passion_bearer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_the_Martyr

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Harold_of_England#Saint_Harold.3F


34 posted on 01/29/2010 4:10:29 PM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: yetidog

John Brown was a Yankee terrorist!!!!


35 posted on 01/29/2010 4:13:33 PM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: Redleg Duke
"The most evil of all, the cult that gave aid, comfort and respectability to the abortion doctor."

And - spit on them - they do it for money.

36 posted on 01/29/2010 4:24:09 PM PST by Let's Roll (Stop paying ACORN to destroy America! Cut off their government funding!)
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To: Dubya
No Way Scott is a murdering JERK and he will rot in hell.

Does your Bible say “Do not murder except”?

Mine don't. Scott is a murder and no telling how many he has cause not to be saved because his and some church members

(I didn't call them Christians because they are not Christians)

have and are acting so stupid about this. Scot is a murderer no doubt about it.


God had many people put to death in the Bible.

Told Israel to Kill thousands. Killing babies is wrong, putting a stop to it righteous.

37 posted on 01/29/2010 5:03:11 PM PST by factmart
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To: factmart
Have fun with your bull corn. :^)

In 1998, a bomb rocked an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Ala., killing security guard Robert Sanderson and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons. (The bomber, Eric Rudolph, was captured in May 2003 and is serving a life sentence.)

38 posted on 01/29/2010 6:10:13 PM PST by Dubya (JESUS SAVES)
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To: factmart
Have fun with your bull corn. :^)

In 1998, a bomb rocked an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Ala., killing security guard Robert Sanderson and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons. (The bomber, Eric Rudolph, was captured in May 2003 and is serving a life sentence.)

39 posted on 01/29/2010 6:11:05 PM PST by Dubya (JESUS SAVES)
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To: Dubya

No one should work for a place that kills Babies.


40 posted on 01/29/2010 6:12:09 PM PST by factmart
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To: lightman

You raise some interesting points here that I definitely intend to ponder.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer is, in my mind at least, one of the modern giants of theological thought. I have long considered him a martyr, but his death was not actually for the the Faith. However, he was clearly prepared to die for the faith, but the Nazis executed him (there was no record of the trial) for other reasons. The Catholic Church (and I believe the Lutheran and Anglican Churches) have always listed Saint John as a martyr even though he didn’t die a martyr’s death, he was placed in boiling oil and emerged unscathed when he should have died and was fully prepared to die.


41 posted on 01/29/2010 6:13:05 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ronin

He took one for his beliefs!


42 posted on 01/29/2010 6:13:48 PM PST by Randy Larsen ( BTW, If I offend you! Please let me know, I may want to offend you again!(FR #1690))
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To: factmart

The Dr did not make even one of the women do what they paid him to do. Are you going to have all of the women killed?


43 posted on 01/29/2010 6:14:07 PM PST by Dubya (JESUS SAVES)
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To: Dubya

NO, But they should not work for that place.


44 posted on 01/29/2010 6:15:57 PM PST by factmart
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To: Dubya

By the way how many babies have been put to death since roe vs wade?


45 posted on 01/29/2010 6:18:30 PM PST by factmart
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To: wagglebee

On most Western calendars the festival of St. John is titled “St. John, Apostle and Evangelist”. The same title is used for St. Matthew. Luke and Mark are titled as simply “Evangelist”; the other (non Gospel-writing) Apostles such as James and Bartholomew are titled as “Apostle”.

All except St. John the Apostle and Evangelist are celebrated with red vestments, John the “martyr in will but not in deed” is celebrated with white.


46 posted on 01/29/2010 6:36:47 PM PST by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: factmart

40 million.

Judgment is his. No one else’s. Look at Barnard Nathanson. God will deal with Tiller in his own time and his own way.

I agree with his motivations for killer Tiller, but violence is never justified. Why make Tiller a martyr? He was 75. Let him retire and rot and be forgotten.


47 posted on 01/29/2010 7:58:26 PM PST by BenKenobi (;)
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To: Ronin

It is now between him and G_d. We can, and should punish him on Earth. The Lord will have the last word. This one is definitely above my pay grade.


48 posted on 01/29/2010 9:13:05 PM PST by aliquando (A Scout is T, L, H, F, C, K, O, C, T, B, C, and R.)
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To: wagglebee

Now you’re cooking!


49 posted on 01/30/2010 7:08:51 AM PST by Tuketu (Democrats shall be known as the National Democrat Party - NDP CASE CLOSED)
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To: zerosix

I seem to recall large POLITICAL contributions by TILLER to the GOVERNOR. If not a thief, is she a co-conspirator?


50 posted on 01/30/2010 7:11:44 AM PST by Tuketu (Democrats shall be known as the National Democrat Party - NDP CASE CLOSED)
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