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Can a person be born gay/homosexual?
Examiner.com ^ | Feb. 3, 2010 | Réne Girard

Posted on 02/03/2010 5:29:33 PM PST by RGirard

There is a lot of controversy right now over homosexuals in the military, gay marriage, teaching children in school ... At the root of this issue is the question of whether or not it is a choice, or if a person can be born gay/homosexual.

In the book "If You Read Just One Book This Year ... " the author, who goes by the pen-name "An American Man," addresses this issue ... The author starts out with a humorous approach ... by comparing homosexuals to vegetables ...

He proceeds to address hate crimes and how television media plays a role.

"Many people in the media seem to forget that intelligent consumers want to understand both sides ... I want to know and understand WHY people are gay ... Even if you don't like or didn't expect the answers you receive, shouldn't the TRUTH actually BE important?"

American Man then discusses how we are "losing out because of manipulative, selfish agendas ... because there is "no genetic proof that anyone is born gay. However, does that mean that people are NOT born gay? No. .... just like stem cell research, and evolution, and the education system ... ...

The author points out that "Many people have come in and out of the lifestyle...

So if it's not a genetic thing, then what is it?

"Part of it is cultural sexual lust ... it is like a fad or a virus. Some people are more susceptible than others. And once infected ..."

What other reason(s) could there be? ... [ see article ]

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: disorders; gay; homosexual; homosexualagenda; marriage; psychology; sin
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1 posted on 02/03/2010 5:29:34 PM PST by RGirard
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To: RGirard

Of course they’re born that way.

I have nothing against men, but there is nothing about a man that arouses me. In fact, masculinity is an instant turn-off for me, even “manly” traits in women can have a negative effect in that department.

I don’t believe it could arouse a man unless he is wired for it.

Just my opinion.


2 posted on 02/03/2010 5:34:33 PM PST by Boucheau
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To: RGirard

Sometimes it’s wiring, sometimes a choice.


3 posted on 02/03/2010 5:35:23 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (ALSO SPRACH ZEROTHUSTRA)
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To: RGirard

NO


4 posted on 02/03/2010 5:38:27 PM PST by JSDude1 (www.wethepeopleindiana.org (Tea Party Member-Proud), www.travishankins.com (R- IN 09 2010!))
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To: Boucheau

That you were born normal doesn’t prove that the homosexuals were born gay.

Not every disorder is inborn. In fact, most aren’t.


5 posted on 02/03/2010 5:39:00 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: RGirard
Ex-gays do exist:

'Groundbreaking' study shows 'gays' can change
APA Has No Disagreement With the Treatment of Unwanted Homosexual Attraction
How a 'gay rights' leader became straight
Venus Magazine
Michael Glatze ‘Comes Out’ of Homosexuality: former ‘Young Gay America’ Magazine Co-founder
I Do Exist
People Can Change
Root Causes, Homosexual Consequences
Factors Contributing to the Development of Their Homosexual Feelings

6 posted on 02/03/2010 5:39:18 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: RGirard

We’re all born “that way” with a sin nature. Different sins will predominate with different people. The issue is whether you act on that sin or repent from it. The answer will determine your eternity.


7 posted on 02/03/2010 5:39:51 PM PST by circlecity
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To: RGirard
What science says:

What do clinical studies say?
NARTH Responds with 'Good Science and Demonstrable Clinical Experience' at the Annual Conference
"Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired," Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project
The Three Myths About Homosexuality
New Evidence Found for Childhood Family Factors Influencing Sexual Orientation
Environmental factors may influence sexual orientation
The Study The Media Ignored
How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together
Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth
Born or Bred? Science Does Not Support the Claim That Homosexuality is Genetic
The Importance of Twin Studies
The Gay Gene?
The Fading "Gay Gene"
The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science
The Gay Gene: Going, Going...Gone

8 posted on 02/03/2010 5:40:41 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: RGirard

I’m thinking “yes”. Most anyway. There may be some that like to appear gay
for the “fun” of it.

I think the cells have gone squirrelly. The difference between the sexes are very delicate. IMHO


9 posted on 02/03/2010 5:41:34 PM PST by TribalPrincess2U (demonicRATS ... taxes, pain and slow death. Is this what you want?)
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To: Boucheau

For the most part, gays are born gay, just as I was born straight. However, there may be some gays and lesbians that elect such a lifestyle.


10 posted on 02/03/2010 5:42:52 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: RGirard
Can a person be born gay? Well, so far all the available evidence says no.

Is it complicated? Of course, but that only means it takes more than a cursory look at the evidence to understand the issues.

11 posted on 02/03/2010 5:43:26 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: annalex

“That you were born normal doesn’t prove that the homosexuals were born gay.”

There is no way that a man could be intimate with another man without a genetic component, or some sort of molestation or sexual abuse. No way.

You could drug me, beat me, threaten my life and I couldn’t follow through.

It’s wired, or indeed it is a mental disorder brought about by some horrific abuse.


12 posted on 02/03/2010 5:44:04 PM PST by Boucheau
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To: Boucheau
It's cultural. All of it. It's the same thing that makes one put a disk into their lower lip:


13 posted on 02/03/2010 5:46:31 PM PST by jonrick46 (We're being water boarded with the sewage of Fascism.)
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To: RGirard
Your premise presumes there is no choice in the matter. A homosexual insists on claiming his anus is the same as a vagina. Any five year old knows that poop is nasty dangerous stuff and it is to be avoided. Homosexuals refuse the common knowledge that every five year old has learned.


14 posted on 02/03/2010 5:46:43 PM PST by pyx (Rule#1.The LEFT lies.Rule#2.See Rule#1. IF THE LEFT CONTROLS THE LANGUAGE, IT CONTROLS THE ARGUMENT.)
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To: RGirard

No,but you are born with SATAN tappin’ on your shoulder .


15 posted on 02/03/2010 5:47:11 PM PST by silentreignofheroes
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To: RGirard

Does it matter? You can be born with a disposition toward alcoholism. Does that mean it is morally correct and “being true to your identity” to drink your brain away and desert your family?

That said, I think homosexuality comes from a combination of genetic dispositions and environmental factors. There are probably genetic factors that make you more sensitive to certain things in your environment.


16 posted on 02/03/2010 5:47:27 PM PST by Julia H. (Freedom of speech and freedom from criticism are mutually exclusive.)
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To: trumandogz

I believe most liberals believe some individuals are born gay.

I believe most liberals support abortion for any reason — it is a “right of privacy” for women.

If a “gay gene” is discovered, would liberals support a woman’s right of privacy in aborting for this reason? Just wondering........

(I love pointing out hypocrisy)


17 posted on 02/03/2010 5:48:01 PM PST by BelleAl
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To: RGirard
The source mentions the James Hartline report, something I haven't seen in a while. Here's a link:

http://www.jameshartline.com/

18 posted on 02/03/2010 5:48:01 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: Boucheau

Again, you compare a disorder to your healthy self. That doesn’t prove anything.

Yes, past abuse is what often triggers homosexuality, but apparently not always.


19 posted on 02/03/2010 5:48:37 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Psycho_Bunny
sometimes a choice

Why would anybody choose to be gay?

20 posted on 02/03/2010 5:50:57 PM PST by lonestar (Obama and his czars have turned Bush's "mess" into a national crisis!)
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To: jonrick46

Celebrate cuiltural diversity???

Just Damn! ...knock...knock...knock...

“Who’s there?”

“Domino’s!”


21 posted on 02/03/2010 5:50:57 PM PST by CTyank
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To: Psycho_Bunny

If they’re born that way how come they do so damn much recruiting?


22 posted on 02/03/2010 5:53:52 PM PST by pfflier
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To: Boucheau

There is no such thing as a “gay gene” and even scientists and doctors working for pro homosexual groups state this. Google:No Gay gene


23 posted on 02/03/2010 5:54:45 PM PST by Leader_Of_The _Conservatives (Palin rules....Odumbo drools)
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To: Boucheau

Your post doesn’t prove anything. It is likely that the proclivity toward homosexuality starts very early. This does not prove they are born that way.


24 posted on 02/03/2010 5:58:05 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: trumandogz

I agree. My husbands brother is gay. Everyone in the family is tall and big boned, except him. He is so tiny and feminine. My husband said that he looked gay since he was a small boy.

However, I do believe that some people seem to make a choice because they think it’s a cool thing to experiment now a days.


25 posted on 02/03/2010 5:58:48 PM PST by kara37
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To: Julia H.

I hear your argument alot (the alcoholic) but I think homosexuality aligns closer with anorexia and bulimia in the spectrum.

It would be nice to get a history of familial relationships and results of a self perception test. I think there are true external and internal markers that steer people to homosexuality.

Like other issues, alcoholism and eating disorders, a small portion will naturally “grow out” of the problem, others will respond to therapy and reorient, some will respond to therapy but will have a triggers,behavior, therapy cycle, oand thers will never respond to interventions.


26 posted on 02/03/2010 5:59:01 PM PST by PrincessB ("if government X-rays are anything like the photos the DMV takes for your license, count me out" A.)
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To: lonestar

It is an illness. The choice is then to seek being well or embrace the illness.


27 posted on 02/03/2010 6:00:29 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: BelleAl
“If a “gay gene” is discovered, would liberals support a woman’s right of privacy in aborting for this reason? Just wondering........”

my guess is yes, as liberals like all sorts of abortion.

However, I imagine, that when the gay gene is found that everyone liberals and conservatives will add gays to groups that are protected by the Equal Protection Clause.

28 posted on 02/03/2010 6:00:34 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: trumandogz
For the most part, gays are born gay, just as I was born straight. However, there may be some gays and lesbians that elect such a lifestyle.

Nonsense. Homosexuality is a deviation of the mind, not a physical deviation. There is no "sexual preference" gene that causes one to be attracted sexually to someone of the same sex, any more than there is a gene that causes someone to be attracted to someone with blonde hair rather than brown, or someone tall rather than short. Our attractions are in our mind and our mind is formed by our experiences.

29 posted on 02/03/2010 6:00:40 PM PST by Shethink13
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To: CTyank

LOL! It does look like a pizza!


30 posted on 02/03/2010 6:01:48 PM PST by jonrick46 (We're being water boarded with the sewage of Fascism.)
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To: RGirard
At the present time there is no evidence that homosexual behavior or even tendency is heritable. Those who hold the contrary are ignoramuses, demogogues or liars. Nevertheless, there is a dictum in science that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

For those who would like for political reasons to believe that homosexuality is inherited, the burden of proof is on them. If you want to assert that some swans are not-white, it is up to you to produce a not-white swan.

If you want to assert that homosexuals "are born that way," fine: produce the gene structures and triggering mechanisms that make that happen.

31 posted on 02/03/2010 6:03:15 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: lonestar
"Choose" was a poor word.

People with a strong curiosity or slight bent in that direction, may "choose" to act on their thoughts when the culture they live in is permissive - or even encouraging - of the behavior. Peer pressure will often come into play with this type of person.

32 posted on 02/03/2010 6:06:22 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (ALSO SPRACH ZEROTHUSTRA)
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To: scripter
Ex-gays do exist

That's a lot of crap. If you read the articles, you should discover that (a) they were never gay to begin with, but rather experimenting out of drug addiction, destitute, rebellion, etc. and/or (b), they are still attracted to guys, but fight the urge to act on that urge, even if that means celebacy or a faux marriage.

33 posted on 02/03/2010 6:07:55 PM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: pyx

MANY heterosexual women do the same. I don’t see your point.


34 posted on 02/03/2010 6:08:09 PM PST by Conservativism
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To: lonestar
Why would anybody choose to be gay?

Here's a site where some admit to choosing to be gay: http://queerbychoice.com

35 posted on 02/03/2010 6:11:55 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: RGirard

Yes, I believe they are born gay.


36 posted on 02/03/2010 6:18:24 PM PST by Fawn (I'm Republican ..becuz we can't all be on welfare.....)
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To: Boucheau

Regardless of whether one is or just chooses to be homosexual, the lifestyle is a destructive one.

Homosexual activists have tried to force the following beliefs on the rest of Americans.
1. Homosexuals can’t change their sexual preferences
2. Homosexuals can’t control their sexual urges.

As long as homosexuals feel it is OK to have sexual relations any time any place with anyone they do NOT belong in the military. The military depends on close nonsexual relationships.

With the don’t ask don’t tell, at least they must keep their sexual preferences to themselves so that the others around them do not treat them differently nor do the gays feel they are being treated differently.

Can we afford all of the problems that will come with allowing gays ot openly serve in the military. The activists will be filing lawsuits claiming that their superior officers treated them badly just because they are gay. It won’t be long before they are demanding their own barracks, different bathrooms and dining halls, and wanting to be allowed to have sex with their “partners” on base etc etc etc.

How about the increased costs of health care. More STDS, 50% more likely to have drug and alcohol addictions, they are 50% more likely to have mental health issues. They will demand health insurance for their latest “partner”.


37 posted on 02/03/2010 6:21:46 PM PST by ODDITHER (HAT)
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To: Fawn
Yes, I believe they are born gay.

Based on what scientific data?

38 posted on 02/03/2010 6:22:53 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: brytlea

Frankly, I don’t care why they do it. It’s none of my business unless they want to label it “marriage”, which is about pro-creation, IMHO.

I just think it has to be there from the start, that’s all. It is unimaginable otherwise.


39 posted on 02/03/2010 6:26:32 PM PST by Boucheau
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To: Labyrinthos

That’s a lot of crap. If you read the articles, you should discover that (a) they were never alcoholics to begin with, but rather experimenting out of drug addiction, destitute, rebellion, etc. and/or (b), they are still attracted to alcohol, but fight the urge to act on that urge, even if that means being teetotaler or drinking Shirley Temple’s.


40 posted on 02/03/2010 6:29:55 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: Boucheau

People are certainly wired differently and yes a lot is imprinted either pre-birth or not long after. However the way neural pathways work is - those we feed with imput continue to feed or provide input or apply belief to keep growing and intertwining with other parts of the brain so it is quite possible if a person allows their brain to believe that they are gay and then continue to entertain thoughts or involve themselves in that lifestyle then the brain will allow that attraction and it will seem to be part of “who they are”!

Cheers

Mel


41 posted on 02/03/2010 6:30:08 PM PST by melsec
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To: Boucheau

I think the “born that way or not” argument is a red herring. Let us assume for the moment that there is a genetic component to it. There are genetic components to many things which are not laudable, such as alcoholism, mental illness, psychopathy, etc.

The question should not be whether there is a genetic connection. The question should be does this lead to a healthy, wholesome, lifestyle that builds society, or does it lead to family breakdown, promiscuity, pedophilia, and other antisocial behaviors?

As an American, I laud tolerance. But tolerance is not the same as value-neutrality or even advocacy. The military certainly should not become a social experiment.


42 posted on 02/03/2010 6:31:01 PM PST by XEHRpa
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To: RGirard

Yes, I also believe they are born gay. It is a birth defect in the brain.


43 posted on 02/03/2010 6:31:06 PM PST by BigCinBigD (")
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To: Boucheau; brytlea
I just think it has to be there from the start, that’s all. It is unimaginable otherwise.

Most normal people don't understand a mental illness. Or personality disorder. Or gender confusion. Whatever it's called it's still an illness.

If you insisted you were really Napoleon Bonaparte, and you believed it, would that make you correct?

44 posted on 02/03/2010 6:31:15 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Labyrinthos
That's a lot of crap.

So Michael Glatze, a gay rights leader and editor of Young Gay American was just experimenting when he was gay.

And Charlene Cothran who founded and ran Venus Magazine was also just experimenting when she was gay. She now uses her magazine to reach out to gays.

Even the APA doesn't have a problem with treatment of unwanted homosexual attraction.

How Might Homosexualitiy Develop? Putting the Pieces Together

For those actually interested, People Can Change.

More information here: Root Causes, Homosexual Consequences.

45 posted on 02/03/2010 6:31:51 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: Raycpa

I like it.


46 posted on 02/03/2010 6:34:18 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: Shethink13

So, you are ready to prove the nonexistence of a gene?


47 posted on 02/03/2010 6:35:26 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: Boucheau
Homosexuality is not an immutable condition like being male, female, black, Asian, etc. I don't believe people are hard-wired for a sexual orientation that is totally different from their DNA. However, I believe there can be circumstances in a child's life that will mess with their psychological makeup so badly that they have s hard time relating, sexually, to the opposite sex, and tend toward people like themselves. Homosexuals tend to be very narcissistic, so maybe that's a part of the whole package.

I do believe it is something that can be changed, with good mental health care, or they can be encouraged not to engage in that activity, because it's not good for their physical or mental health.

48 posted on 02/03/2010 6:37:37 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: RGirard

I object to engaging the lobby on behalf of homoeroticism on these terms.

I think a reasonable case can be made that all of us are born with tendencies that predispose us toward certain temptations and with them certain sins.

The problem with allowing the debate to be frame in terms of “is it inborn?” is that it is debating the wrong issue. The question is whether yielding to this disposition results in good or evil behavior.

If I were born with a predisposition to anger, that fact would not make it either moral or morally neutral for me to yield to that predisposition and commit murder nor even perpetually rail against my neighbors and acquaintances.

If I were born with a predisposition to acquisitiveness, that fact would not make it moral or morally neutral for me to pilfer from my employer or turn to brigandry.

No more, were I born with a predisposition toward buggering other men would that make buggery either moral or morally neutral.


49 posted on 02/03/2010 6:38:59 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: melsec

OK I’m not trying to ruffle anyone’s feathers here. I’m using introspection more than I should, I guess.

I can name ten thousand things about females that make me happy to be alive (and a few that make me wish I was dead sometimes), but, sex with men, well, the idea just never occurred to me.

Given that, it seems to me that one would have to have some genetic predisposition to partake in such a bizarre act.

For me, it’s on par with having “sex” with animals. It ain’t happenin’.


50 posted on 02/03/2010 6:39:52 PM PST by Boucheau
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