Posted on 02/06/2010 8:21:23 PM PST by Salvation
This website surveys the origin and development of Roman Catholic Christianity from the period of the apostolic church, through the post-apostolic church and into the conciliar movement. Principal attention is paid to the biblical basis of both doctrine and dogma as well as the role of paradosis (i.e. handing on the truth) in the history of the Church. Particular attention is also paid to the hierarchical founding and succession of leadership throughout the centuries.
This is a set of lecture notes used since 1985 to teach the basis for key doctrines and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. The objectives of the course were, and are:
The course grew out of the need for the authors to continually answer questions about their faith tradition and their work. (Both authors are active members of Catholic parish communities in the Diocese of Richmond, Virginia. Dr. Robert Schihl was a Professor and Associate Dean of the School of Communication and the Arts at Regent University. Paul Flanagan is a consultant specializing in preparing people for technology based changes.) At the time these notes were first prepared, the authors were spending time in their faith community answering questions about their Protestant Evangelical workplaces (Mr. Flanagan was then a senior executive at the Christian Broadcasting Network), and time in their workplaces answering similar questions about their Roman Catholic faith community. These notes are the result of more than a decade of facilitating dialogue among those who wish to learn more about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and why.
The Catholic Response to "Are You Saved?"
The Catholic Christian answers this question in three stages or levels corresponding to the three meanings the words "saved" and "salvation" have in the Bible. (These meanings are found in the previous section, "Salvation: A Biblical Portrait." )
Catholic Christians can respond that they have been saved. This acknowledges the first meaning of "saved" and "salvation" in scripture--Jesus Christ, Savior, by whose act of salvation we are objectively saved--He died, rose from the dead, saved them from sin.
Catholic Christians can also respond that they are being saved. This acknowledges the second meaning "saved" and "salvation" have in scripture--the present experience, God's power delivering constantly from the bondage of sin.
Catholic Christians also respond that they will be saved, that they have hope and confidence that God will give them the grace of perseverance; that they will respond to it; and accept his gift of salvation until their death. This acknowledges the third meaning the words "saved" and "salvation" have in scripture--the future deliverance of believers at the Second Coming of Christ.
So if you were going to die tonight — yet you yelled at your husband/wife/children — do you know if you’d go to Heaven?
I doubt it. You would spend some time in Purgatory for those sins. But that topic will come up later.
As will what you mentioned faith and works.
**Once saved forever saved. Nothing to work towards. I asked Jesus to be my saviour over 30 years ago, I have nothing to work toward. My salvation is assured.**
And what about all the sins you committed in that time?
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Give a Protestant a lesson, and he wants to know where is that in the Bible. Give him the Bible and he complains it’s too complicated.
**Give him the Bible and he complains it’s too complicated.**
Or too simple! LOL!
Jesus, as GOD, was aware of all our sins before we were born. With this knowledge, he died on the cross for us. His sacrifice suffices for all our sins (past, present and future) if we have accepted him as our saviour
Now that Christ offered you salvation it sure depends on you. If you do your part, you will be saved and if necessary, purified. If you don't, you won't. Matthew 25:31-46.
No purgatory — no waiting place?
Where were all the souls of the Old Testament waiting so that they could enter the Kingdom of Heaven after Christ, the First Fruits, entered heaven?
The Bible tells us that when Christ died, the spirits arose from their tombs and wandered about Jerusalem, but only some could see them. They knew that Christ was opening up heaven for them, but first he had to descend to the dead and gather those souls.
It’s in the Creed. Check the link on the Creeds above. Or don’t you say a creed at your church? What church do you attend, then?
Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (Romans 6:15)
Well, not every protestant denomination believes it.
I think it’s a misunderstanding of free will, God’s promise that He will never lose His people, not one, and somehow this will ever prevent anyone who had at one time genuine faith, from using their God-given free will to either slowly drift away or drastically cut off from God.
But these people who you say God will not abandon — which is true — BTW, ALWAUS need to come to God in humility first.
God always waits for us to knock at the door and start the process. That’s basically what these apologetics threads are about — forming a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Anyone who genuinely and sincerely wants to know God and have a relationship with Him, God says, will find Him.
I don't see that in any scripture; certainly not in the scripture I referenced. Matthew 25, for example, relates the works and salvation directly, I don't know how Christ could have been clearer. You do this, you are saved at His Second Coming, you don't do this, you are condemned at His Second Coming. Works save.
That faith might inspire good works, no one disputes. That we are judged by our works is clear gospel. Therefore, if faith crosses into presumption of salvation, it is no longer mature faith. It is, in fact, a sin.
You earlier mentioned that references to hope bother you when they come from the Catholics. Yet hope is a theological virtue that is frequently mentioned in the New Testament. Security of salvation, on the other hand, is not a common topic anywhere. It is, in fact, not difficult to find verses that contradict it.
Then if you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and that He died for our sins...you seem to advocate that that would always hold, even if you do not live by His teachings, a life not pleasing to Him?
We are all called to follow Him. You acknowledge the existence of that path by the fact that you claim salvation through Christ. Yet you speak as though one could walk off that path.
It is by grace that we are saved, through faith in Christ. But how are we to prove our faith in our Savior? After all, not all who call ‘Lord, Lord’ shall be saved; your words seem to indicate otherwise.
1 John 2:1-10
1 My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the just:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But he that keepeth his word, in him in very deed the charity of God is perfected; and by this we know that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him, ought himself also to walk, even as he walked.
7 Dearly beloved, I write not a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8 Again a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true both in him and in you; because the darkness is passed, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother, abideth in the light, and there is no scandal in him.
The Apostle John writes that those who claim to love Christ yet not follow His commandments is a liar.
Judging by your words, I can logically say “Well, I acknowledge Christ as my Savior. I am saved no matter what. Now I shall go forth and despise my brother, coveting my neighbor’s car, and lying to my boss. After all, Christ is my Savior.”
It doesn’t work like that. We are called to walk as He walked. Your words seem to say we don’t have to.
Once saved, always saved is 100% correct. Once someone is saved, the Holy Ghost dwells in them.
Christ said, “no one shall pluck them from my hands.” He didn’t say that no one shall pluck them from my hands, unless they sin.
PS: I am not condoning sin. We are to try our best to live a life that glorifies God...
Once saved, always saved is 100% correct. Once someone is saved, the Holy Ghost dwells in them.
Christ said, “no one shall pluck them from my hands.” He didn’t say that no one shall pluck them from my hands, unless they sin.
PS: I am not condoning sin. We are to try our best to live a life that glorifies God...
Very true (John 10 in particular comes to mind), but these promises are not separated from the genuine and free response of faith originating in the bosoms of the flock.
I, for one, never worry that He loses me. But if I do that which I will not (Romans 7:20) I worry not to lose Him.
The judgement is by the works. It is by grace alone, but it is by the works, that faith enables.
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, that no man may glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them. (Eph. 2)
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