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Radio Replies Second Volume - Salvation of the Soul
Celledoor.com ^ | 1940 | Fathers Rumble & Carty

Posted on 02/09/2010 9:21:02 AM PST by GonzoII

Salvation of the Soul



65. What precisely do you mean by the saving of one's soul?

The meaning of that requires a brief analysis of man. Man consists of body and soul. The body is material and perishable; the soul is spiritual and imperishable. But the soul is the real you. It is the soul which knows and loves, is happy or miserable. Now as the soul is immortal, it enters at death into an eternal state, whether it be one of supreme happiness, or of direst misery. By "saving one's soul" I mean going from this world in the grace and friendship of God, so that one avoids eternal misery, and secures eternal happiness.

66. What are the conditions of salvation?

That we serve God in this life, doing what He commands, and avoiding what He forbids. That surely is evident. If men have not always done what God commands, or have not always avoided what He forbids, they must at least be sincerely repentant of their sins before they go from this life to meet their eternal Judge.

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TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: 1tim47; catholic; radiorepliesvoltwo; soul
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Preface To Volume One of "Radio Replies"


By RT. REV. MSGR. FULTON J. SHEEN, D.D

 

There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church — which is, of course, quite a different thing. These millions can hardly be blamed for hating Catholics because Catholics "adore statues"; because they "put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God"; because they say "indulgence is a permission to commit sin"; because the Pope "is a Fascist"; because the "Church is the defender of Capitalism." If the Church taught or believed any one of these things it should be hated, but the fact is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them. It follows then that the hatred of the millions is directed against error and not against truth. As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.

If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world, as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times, as Our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils. Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because He called Himself the Truth. Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as Our Lord was rejected by men. Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its Voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly, it is other-worldly. Since it is other-worldly it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself. But only that which is Divine can be infinitely hated and infinitely loved. Therefore the Church is Divine.

If then, the hatred of the Church is founded on erroneous beliefs, it follows that basic need of the day is instruction. Love depends on knowledge for we cannot aspire nor desire the unknown. Our great country is filled with what might be called marginal Christians, i.e., those who live on the fringe of religion and who are descendants of Christian living parents, but who now are Christians only in name. They retain a few of its ideals out of indolence and force of habit; they knew the glorious history of Christianity only through certain emasculated forms of it, which have married the spirit of the age and are now dying with it. Of Catholicism and its sacraments, its pardon, its grace, its certitude and its peace, they know nothing except a few inherited prejudices. And yet they are good people who want to do the right thing, but who have no definite philosophy concerning it. They educate their children without religion, and yet they resent the compromising morals of their children. They would be angry if you told them they were not Christian, and yet they do not believe that Christ is God. They resent being called pagans and yet they never take a practical cognizance of the existence of God. There is only one thing of which they are certain and that is that things are not right as they are. It is just that single certitude which makes them what might be called the great "potentials," for they are ready to be pulled in either of two directions. Within a short time they must take sides; they must either gather with Christ or they must scatter; they must either be with Him or against Him; they must either be on the cross as other Christs, or under it as other executioners. Which way will these marginal Christians tend? The answer depends upon those who have the faith. Like the multitudes who followed Our Lord into the desert, they are as sheep without a shepherd. They are waiting to be shepherded either with the sheep or goats. Only this much is certain. Being human and having hearts they want more than class struggle and economics; they want Life, they want Truth, and they want Love. In a word, they want Christ.

It is to these millions who believe wrong things about the Church and to these marginal Christians, that this little book is sent. It is not to prove that they are "wrong"; it is not to prove that we are "right"; it is merely to present the truth in order that the truth may conquer through the grace of God. When men are starving, one need not go to them and tell them to avoid poison; nor to eat bread because there are vitamins in bread. One need only go to them and tell them that they are starving and here is bread, and the laws of nature will do the rest. This book of "Radio Replies" with 1,588 questions and answers goes out on a similar mission. Its primary task is not to humble the erroneous; not to glorify the Catholic Church as intellectual and self-righteous, but to present the truth in a calm, clear manner in order that with the grace of God souls may come to the blessed embrace of Christ.

It is not only the point of "Radio Replies" to prove that the Church is the only completely soul-satisfying Church in existence at the present day; it is also to suggest that the Catholic Church is the only Church existing today which goes back to the time of Christ. History is so very clear on this point, it is curious how many minds miss its obviousness. When therefore you, the readers of "Radio Replies" in the twentieth century, wish to know about Christ and about His early Church, and about His mysteries, we ask you to go not only to the written records but to the living Church which began with Christ Himself. That Church or that Mystical Person which has been living all these centuries is the basis of our faith and to us Catholics it speaks this way: "I live with Christ. I saw His Mother and I know her to be a Virgin and the loveliest and purest of all women in heaven or on earth; I saw Christ at Caesarea-Philippi, when, after changing Simon's name to Rock, He told him he was the rock upon which the Church would be built and that it would endure unto the consummation of the world. I saw Christ hanging on a cross and I saw Him rise from His tomb; I saw Magdalene rush to His feet; I saw the angels clad in white beside the great stone; I was in the Cenacle room when doubting Thomas put fingers into His hands; I was on Olivet when He ascended into heaven and promised to send His Spirit to the apostles to make them the foundation of His new Mystical Body on earth. I was at the stoning of Stephen, saw Saul hold the garments of those who slew him, and later I heard Saul, as Paul, preach Christ and Him crucified; I witnessed the beheading of Peter and Paul in Rome, and with my very eyes saw tens of thousands of martyrs crimson the sands with their blood, rather than deny the faith Peter and Paul had preached unto them; I was living when Boniface was sent to Germany, when Augustine when to England, Cyril and Methodius to the Poles, and Patrick to Ireland; at the beginning of the ninth century I recall seeing Charlemagne crowned as king in matters temporal as Peter's vicar was recognized as supreme in matters spiritual; in the thirteenth century I saw the great stones cry out in tribute to me, and burst into Gothic Cathedrals; in the shadows of those same walls I saw great Cathedrals of thought arise in the prose of Aquinas and Bonaventure, and in the poetry of Dante; in the sixteenth century I saw my children softened by the spirit of the world leave the Father's house and reform the faith instead of reforming discipline which would have brought them back again into my embrace; in the last century and at the beginning of this I heard the world say it could not accept me because I was behind the times. I am not behind the times, I am only behind the scenes. I have adapted myself to every form of government the world has ever known; I have lived with Caesars and kings, tyrants and dictators, parliaments and presidents, monarchies and republics. I have welcomed every advance of science, and were it not for me the great records of the pagan world would not have been preserved. It is true I have not changed my doctrine, but that is because the ‘doctrine is not mine but His who sent Me.’ I change my garments which belong to time, but not my Spirit which belongs to eternity. In the course of my long life I have seen so many modern ideas become unmodern, that I know I shall live to chant a requiem over the modern ideas of this day, as I chanted it over the modern ideas of the last century. I celebrated the nineteen-hundredth anniversary of the death of my Redeemer and yet I am no older now than then, for my Spirit is Eternal, and the Eternal never ages. I am the abiding Personage of the centuries. I am the contemporary of all civilizations. I am never out of date, because the dateless; never out of time, because the timeless. I have four great marks: I am One, because I have the same Soul I had in the beginning; I am Holy, because that Soul is the Spirit of Holiness; I am Catholic, because that Spirit pervades every living cell of my Body; I am Apostolic, because my origin is identical with Nazareth, Galilee and Jerusalem. I shall grow weak when my members become rich and cease to pray, but I shall never die. I shall be persecuted as I am persecuted now in Mexico and Russia; I shall be crucified as I was on Calvary, but I shall rise again, and finally when time shall be no more, and I shall have grown to my full stature, then shall I be taken into heaven as the bride of my Head, Christ, where the celestial nuptials shall be celebrated, and God shall be all in all, because His Spirit is Love and Love is Heaven."

 

 

 

 

Introduction To The American Edition Of "Radio Replies" Vol One

 

"Radio Replies" by Rev. Dr. Rumble, M.S.C., is the result of five years of answering questions during a one-hour Question Box Program over Radio Station 2SM Sydney, N.S.W. The revision of "Radio Replies" for American readers was prompted by the widespread interest the Australian edition created among Protestants and Catholics during the summer of 1937, when I was carrying on as a Catholic Campaigner for Christ, the Apostolate to the man in the street through the medium of my trailer and loud-speaking system. In the distribution of pamphlets and books on Catholicism "Radio Replies" proved the most talked of book carried in my trailer display of Catholic literature. The clergy and laymen engaged in Street Preaching agree that it is not so much what you say over the microphone in answer to questions from open air listeners but what you GET INTO THEIR HANDS TO READ.

My many converts of the highways and parks throughout the Archdiocese of St. Paul have embraced the faith as a result of studying this book. Whole families have come into the Church through reading the book by this renowned convert from Anglicanism. The delay in getting copies from Sydney and the prohibitive cost of the book on this side of the universe led me to petition the author to have published a CHEAP AMERICAN EDITION in order to get this Encyclopaedia of Catholic Doctrine into the hands of fellow citizens. Because of the author's genius for brevity, preciseness, fearlessness and keen logic that avoids the usually long Scriptural and Traditional arguments of the average question and answer book, which is beyond the capacity of the man in the street, this manual of 1,588 questions and replies has already attracted readers throughout Australia, New Zealand, Africa, India, England, Ireland, Canada and now the United States.

The questions he answers are the questions I had to answer before friendly and hostile audiences throughout my summer campaign. The piquant and provocative subject matter of this book makes it a fascinating assembly of 300 or more worth-while pamphlet tracts, a dictionary of doctrine for the desk of the FAMILY, the STUDENT, the SHOP HAND, the OFFICE WORKER, the ATTORNEY, the DOCTOR, the TEACHER, and the PREACHER. It is a handy standard reference book of excellence for popular questions which are more than ever being asked by restless and bewildered multitudes. It is a textbook for the Confraternities of Christian Doctrine Classes and Study Clubs.

A non-Catholic Professor after reading the book stated that, "If the Catholic Church could defend herself so logically as 'Radio Replies' demonstrates, then I do not see why you don't get more converts." Members of the Knights of Columbus, the Holy Name Societies and numerous women's societies have written in that they no longer have to apologetically say, "I can't answer that one." Catholic students in non-sectarian colleges and universities write in that they now walk the campus with this book under their arms, ready for all challenges and that this manual of ready reference has cured their INFERIORITY COMPLEX ON EXPOSITION OF CATHOLIC CLAIMS. Lapsed Catholics have come into my trailer-office to confess that the reading of "Radio Replies" has brought them back to the Church.

I am grateful to His Excellency Archbishop John G. Murray, D.D. for his approval of this compendium of dogmatic and moral theology for readers of the American Commonwealth and I am deeply appreciative to Rt. Rev. Msgr. Fulton J. Sheen, D.D. for writing the Preface to this American edition.

From my experience on the Catholic Radio Hour, on the lecture platform, and in the pulpit, I do not hesitate to say that HERE AT LAST is the book that has something for everybody, the book for the UNINFORMED CATHOLIC, THE UNEDUCATED AND EDUCATED LAPSED CATHOLIC, and the PROSPECTIVE CONVERT.

Rev. Charles MortimerCarty

Source

 

 

 Who is like unto God?........ Lk:10:18:
 And he said to them: I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven.

 

Historical Context of "Radio Replies"


By markomalley

If one recalls the time frame from which Radio Replies emerged, it can explain some of the frankness and lack of tact in the nature of the responses provided.

It was during this timeframe that a considerable amount of anti-Catholic rhetoric came to the forefront, particularly in this country. Much of this developed during the Presidential campaign of Al Smith in 1928, but had its roots in the publication of Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons, originally published in book form in 1919 and also published in pamphlet form in 1853.

While in Britain (and consequently Australia), the other fellow would surely have experienced the effects of the Popery Act, the Act of Settlement, the Disenfranchising Act, the Ecclesiastical Titles Act, and many others since the reformation (that basically boiled down to saying, "We won't kill you if you just be good, quiet little Catholics"). Even the so-called Catholic Relief Acts (1778, 1791, 1829, 1851, 1871) still had huge barriers placed in the way.

And of course, they'd both remember the American Protective Association, "Guy Fawkes Days" (which included burning the Pontiff in effigy), the positions of the Whigs and Ultra-Torries, and so on.

A strong degree of "in your face" from people in the position of authoritativeness was required back in the 1930s, as there was a large contingent of the populations of both the US and the British Empire who were not at all shy about being "in your face" toward Catholics in the first place (in other words, a particularly contentious day on Free Republic would be considered a mild day in some circles back then). Sure, in polite, educated circles, contention was avoided (thus the little ditty about it not being polite to discuss religion in public, along with sex and politics), but it would be naive to assume that we all got along, or anything resembling that, back in the day.

Having said all of the above, reading the articles from the modern mindset and without the historical context that I tried to briefly summarize above, they make challenging reading, due to their bluntness.

The reader should also keep in mind that the official teaching of the Church takes a completely different tone, best summed up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324

269 UR 3 § 1.
270 Cf. CIC, can. 751.
271 Origen, Hom. in Ezech. 9,1:PG 13,732.
272 UR 3 § 1.
273 LG 8 § 2.
274 UR 3 § 2; cf. LG 15.
275 Cf. UR 3.
276 Cf. LG 8.
322 LG 15.
323 UR 3.
324 Paul VI, Discourse, December 14, 1975; cf. UR 13-18.


1 posted on 02/09/2010 9:21:04 AM PST by GonzoII
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To: fidelis; Atomic Vomit; MI; Sir_Humphrey; dsc; annalex; Citizen Soldier; bdeaner; CatQuilt; ...
 Radio Replies

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2 posted on 02/09/2010 9:21:59 AM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: All

The Radio Replies Series: Volume One

The Radio Replies Series: Volume Two

Chapter One: God

Radio Replies Volume Two: Proof of God's Existence
Radio Replies Volume Two: God's Nature
Radio Replies Volume Two: Supreme Control Over All Things and the Problem of Suffering and Evil

Chapter Two: Man

Radio Replies Volume Two: Destiny of Man/Death
Radio Replies Volume Two: Immortality of Man's Soul & Pre-existence Denied
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Human Free Will
Radio Replies Volume Two: Determinism Absurd

Chapter Three: Religion

Radio Replies Volume Two: Necessity of Religion
Radio Replies Volume Two: Salvation of the Soul

3 posted on 02/09/2010 9:23:18 AM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: GonzoII

Does God know whether or not one’s sould will be saved, when He creates them?


4 posted on 02/09/2010 9:36:43 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr

Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council I, Sess. 3, Chap. 1, On God the creator of all things:
“EVERYTHING THAT GOD HAS BROUGHT INTO BEING HE PROTECTS
AND GOVERNS BY HIS PROVIDENCE, which reaches from one end of the earth to
the other and orders all things well. All things are open and laid bare before His eyes,
even those which will be brought about by the free activity of creatures.”


“Before all decision to create the world, the infinite knowledge of God presents to Him all the graces, and different series of graces, which He can prepare for each soul, along with the consent or refusal which would follow in each circumstance, and that in millions of possible combinations ... Thus, for each man in particular there are in the thought of God, limitless possible histories, some histories of virtue and salvation, others of crime and damnation; and God will be free in choosing such a world, such a series of graces, and in determining the future history and final destiny of each soul. And this is precisely what He does when among all possible worlds, by an absolutely free act, he decides to realize the actual world with all the circumstances of its historic evolutions, with all the graces which in fact have been and will be distributed until the end of the world, and consequently with all the elect and all the reprobate who God foresaw would be in it if de facto He created it.” [The Catholic Encyclopedia Appleton, 1909, on Augustine, pg 97]


5 posted on 02/09/2010 10:15:11 AM PST by PPlains
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To: stuartcr
Man consists of body and soul. The body is material and perishable; the soul is spiritual and imperishable. But the soul is the real you. It is the soul which knows and loves, is happy or miserable. Now as the soul is immortal, it enters at death into an eternal state, whether it be one of supreme happiness, or of direst misery.

The above statement is exactly the same as Plato's description as found in The Phaedo. It is not a Biblical nor Christian definition of what a man is. Man is a "living being/soul/creature". Genesis 2:7 says that "God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Notice that it does not say that man was given a soul, but that man IS a living "nephesh", i.e., a being/soul/creature/person. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia agrees here! Check it out.

Much more could be said, but the above condenses it very well, and in plain simple words.

6 posted on 02/09/2010 10:29:21 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: stuartcr
Man consists of body and soul. The body is material and perishable; the soul is spiritual and imperishable. But the soul is the real you. It is the soul which knows and loves, is happy or miserable. Now as the soul is immortal, it enters at death into an eternal state, whether it be one of supreme happiness, or of direst misery.

The above statement is exactly the same as Plato's description as found in The Phaedo. It is not a Biblical nor Christian definition of what a man is. Man is a "living being/soul/creature". Genesis 2:7 says that "God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Notice that it does not say that man was given a soul, but that man IS a living "nephesh", i.e., a being/soul/creature/person. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia agrees here! Check it out.

Much more could be said, but the above condenses it very well, and in plain simple words.

7 posted on 02/09/2010 10:30:19 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: PPlains

What does all that mean in simple terms? Does God know what state our souls will be in, when we die?


8 posted on 02/09/2010 11:41:32 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: Ken4TA

So, does God know whether or not one’s soul will be saved, when He creates them?


9 posted on 02/09/2010 11:42:59 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr
So, does God know whether or not one’s soul will be saved, when He creates them?

I don't know, you'll have to ask Him. All I really know is that God knows the end from the beginning - that's what is revealed to us.

10 posted on 02/09/2010 12:32:31 PM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: Ken4TA

What beginning or end is that that has been revealed? Individuals’s, or the world’s or the beginning and end of time?


11 posted on 02/09/2010 12:45:07 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr
What beginning or end is that that has been revealed? Individuals’s, or the world’s or the beginning and end of time?

You got me :-) It could be everything.

12 posted on 02/09/2010 12:49:37 PM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: Ken4TA

I have a hard time imagining God creating someone He knows will go to hell after death.


13 posted on 02/09/2010 12:54:04 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr
It's because he values our free will. He didn't create automatons.
14 posted on 02/09/2010 12:58:38 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480

That I do not know, but that would mean He creates Jeffrey Dahmers and terrorists that blow themselves up, knowingly creating innocent victims that will be hurt and killed.


15 posted on 02/09/2010 1:01:24 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr
I have a hard time imagining God creating someone He knows will go to hell after death.

I don't worry about that. After all, God is the "potter" and we are but "clay" in His hands. Who are we to complain about His justice and mercy? We have free will to obey or not; and to suffer the consequences.

PS: Where are going with this type of questioning?

16 posted on 02/09/2010 1:02:09 PM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: stuartcr

Now, you’re pointing towards the question of why there’s evil in the world.


17 posted on 02/09/2010 1:09:01 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: stuartcr

Of course. Before he created the earth, he knew everything we would do, and where we’d end up


18 posted on 02/09/2010 4:46:45 PM PST by PPlains
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To: stuartcr

To a Catholic, death, any death, no matter how gruesome, is of little consequence when compared to eternal life with God or eternal damnation with the damned.

The only important thing is saving our souls, we must strive always to be without sin on that day that God takes us, or we will be damned forever.

“They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved”. (Pope St. Gregory the Great)


19 posted on 02/09/2010 4:46:47 PM PST by PPlains
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To: stuartcr

It means that God knew from before the creation of the world, where each one of us would end up.


20 posted on 02/09/2010 4:47:14 PM PST by PPlains
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To: stuartcr

re:I have a hard time imagining God creating someone He knows will go to hell after death.

They go to hell by their own use of free will. Allowing them to live a life here on earth, maybe of riches, is quite a gift from God for which God foreknew they would be totally undeserving. It shows God’s mercy.


21 posted on 02/09/2010 4:55:11 PM PST by PPlains
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To: Ken4TA

Wherever it takes me. I’m just asking questions to see others views on the subject.


22 posted on 02/10/2010 7:34:43 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: Pyro7480

Yeah, don’t you think it ties in with salvation?


23 posted on 02/10/2010 7:36:20 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: PPlains

So why does He create innocent victims and evil people?


24 posted on 02/10/2010 7:37:16 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: PPlains

Doesn’t God know when He creates someone, if they will die in sin or not or whether they will be saved at the time of death??


25 posted on 02/10/2010 7:39:30 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: PPlains

Yeah, that’s the hard part I have. If God knows someone will go to hell of their own volition, why does He create them? How do you think He decides those that will live, and go to hell? It seems there must be some criteria God uses when He creates someone, knowing they will choose to die in sin.


26 posted on 02/10/2010 7:45:20 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr

You have your answer above in Replies Volume 2. It will tell you much more than I can type.


27 posted on 02/10/2010 7:58:18 AM PST by PPlains
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To: stuartcr
Wherever it takes me. I’m just asking questions to see others views on the subject.

Okay, that's fine, but it doesn't quite answer the question that was posed in the topic of the thread.

Here was the question: What precisely do you mean by the saving of one's soul?

The answer is simple, in a way: Saving one's soul is saving one's life for and in the future - i.e., at the resurrection, which is settled at the time of one's earthly death.

Now, naturally, the question pops up of "How does one save one's life/soul?" The answer to that is the Gospel of Christ. It is to accept and obey that Gospel, nothing else is all that important!

Now let's let the discussion continue :-)

28 posted on 02/10/2010 8:04:04 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: PPlains

From what I got out of Vol 2, is that stuff happens, and God really does willingly choose who will die as a victim, but He has nothing to do with the bad persons’ choice...and we should just accept all that.

Since this was written by a man, that I do not believe can know anymore about God than any other man, I have to say that I disagree.

Thanks for pointing me to that volume.


29 posted on 02/10/2010 8:08:19 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: Ken4TA

OK


30 posted on 02/10/2010 8:08:56 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr; All
For your information, And to supply the quote for a statement I made in my first post on this thread, let me repost it and supply the reference I made:

Consider what The New Catholic Encyclopedia has to say about the Hebrew word nephesh (or nepes) and the Greek word psuche as it appears in the manuscripts of the Bible:
“Nepes comes from an original root…to breathe, and…thence, breath of life. Since breath distinguishes the living from the dead, nepes is used in regard to both animals and humans… After death, the nepes goes to sheol [Hebrew word for grave]. The above summary indicates that there is no dichotomy of body and soul in the Old Testament…other words in the Old Testament such as spirit, flesh, and heart also signify the human person and differ only as various aspects of the same being. The notion of the soul surviving after death is not readily discernible in the Bible. The concept of the human soul itself is not the same in the Old Testament as it is in Greek and modern philosophy…The soul in the Old Testament means not a part of man, but the whole man—man as a living being” (The New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, art. "Soul, Human, Immortality of").
And in another place:
“The soul in the OT means not a part of man, but the whole—man as a living being. Similarly in the NT, it signifies human life: the life of an individual conscious object (Matt 2:20; 6:25; Luke 12:22-23; 14:26; John 10:11,15,17; John 13:37; Acts 27:10, 22; Phil 2:30; 1Thess 2:8). Recent exegetes…have maintained that the NT does not teach the immortality of the soul in the Hellenistic sense of survival of an immortal principle after death (The New Catholic Encyclopedia, art. "Soul, Human, Immortality of, In The Bible.").

Check out this ARTICLE I wrote some time ago. It gets to the heart of the question asked in this thread.

31 posted on 02/10/2010 8:18:27 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: stuartcr
BTW, My first post on this thread is post number 6.
32 posted on 02/10/2010 8:24:28 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: Ken4TA

Thanks, I’ll take a look at your article.


33 posted on 02/10/2010 8:29:27 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr

re: How do you think He decides those that will live, and go to hell? It seems there must be some criteria God uses when He creates someone, knowing they will choose to die in sin.

You’ll have to do some studying on the subject, the Catholic answer is too long for me to type. Read the 1907 (1900 to 1918 all the same) Catholic Encyclopedia section on Predestination, it covers your question. How God chooses has not been dogmatically defined, but it’s been studied for centuries.

As G. K. Chesterton wrote, “There is no other case of one continuous intelligent institution that has been thinking about thinking for two thousand years. Its experience naturally covers nearly all experiences; and especially nearly all errors. The result is a map in which all the blind alleys and bad roads are clearly marked, all the ways that have been shown to be worthless by the best of all evidence: the evidence of those who have gone down them.”


34 posted on 02/10/2010 8:32:57 AM PST by PPlains
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To: stuartcr

re:Since this was written by a man, that I do not believe can know anymore about God than any other man,

You are correct, if it is just one mans opinion.

However, a Catholic has to document the geneology of his opinion down through the ages. If you concede that some men may be holier than others, wiser than others, or have assistance from the Holy Spirit not enjoyed by each individual, or if you concede that generations of men laboring down the centuries may add to and refine our understanding in a way no single lifetime would allow...
Well, then, it becomes impossible to claim that consensus of opinion as one’s own understanding.

As G. K. Chesterton wrote, “There is no other case of one continuous intelligent institution that has been thinking about thinking for two thousand years. Its experience naturally covers nearly all experiences; and especially nearly all errors. The result is a map in which all the blind alleys and bad roads are clearly marked, all the ways that have been shown to be worthless by the best of all evidence: the evidence of those who have gone down them.”
To maintain faith in YOPIOS, one must cavalierly dismiss twenty centuries of the spiritual and intellectual work product of history’s greatest minds and holiest men as nothing more than something done by other men, as though one could stay home from work one morning and recreate it by noon.

The way to discern this priests personal opinions is to look for his references to the consensus through the centuries. That is why I started by quoting a dogmatic decree by a pope, and a comment from St. Augustine that’s like 1500 years old, AND has never been rejected by the Church.


35 posted on 02/10/2010 8:32:57 AM PST by PPlains
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To: stuartcr

re: From what I got out of Vol 2, is that stuff happens, and God really does willingly choose who will die as a victim, but He has nothing to do with the bad persons’ choice...and we should just accept all that.


Can you please copy and paste the part that gave you that answer?


36 posted on 02/10/2010 8:32:57 AM PST by PPlains
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To: PPlains

Actually, I really ask these questions because I would like to get individual’s answers, not the church’s. Thanks


37 posted on 02/10/2010 8:35:55 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: PPlains

In matters like this, I am unable to concede any of those things.


38 posted on 02/10/2010 8:37:42 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: PPlains

To save space, I’ll just list #13, 15 and 16 of Vol 2.


39 posted on 02/10/2010 8:39:01 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr

re: Actually, I really ask these questions because I would like to get individual’s answers, not the church’s. Thanks

Individuals opinions with no basis in consensus through the ages, are good for nothing. A waste your time.


40 posted on 02/10/2010 8:44:13 AM PST by PPlains
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To: PPlains

I disagree.


41 posted on 02/10/2010 8:47:32 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr
Thanks, I’ll take a look at your article.

Let me know what you think.

42 posted on 02/10/2010 8:48:17 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: Ken4TA

You certainly did a lot of work.


43 posted on 02/10/2010 8:52:31 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr
Go knows ALL will sin.
God sent His Son so ALL would still have hope of salvation.
Jesus died for ALL

Yet ALL will not go to Heaven
ALL that receive Jesus (Believe, Repent, Baptism, confession, obey his will equals receive )will be saved.

God knows ALL that receive His son will be saved, ALL that do not will not be saved. Go Knows ALL, but has also giving all the choice to serve him.

44 posted on 02/10/2010 8:54:49 AM PST by NoDRodee (U>S>M>C)
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To: stuartcr
You certainly did a lot of work.

In a way, yes. But it was spread over a few decades. Like you, I too am not all that interested in "organized religion", i.e., hierarchial structure - That is not very Biblical.

What that articles says is important enough, so I've been told by many different denominational theologians, "that one should spend some time doing some study on its conclusions." But that's up to the individual, not a "church"!

45 posted on 02/10/2010 8:59:27 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: NoDRodee

Sorry, I do not understand what you are trying to tell me with reference to #39.


46 posted on 02/10/2010 9:00:00 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr

Would you start a basketball team by picking just anybody at random? Or would you pick the tall, slim, and athletic?

Men’s intelligence is the same. I choose the consensus of great minds through the ages, while you say you prefer to choose the opinions of anybody on Free Republic.

It makes no sense.


47 posted on 02/10/2010 9:01:29 AM PST by PPlains
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To: Ken4TA

I agree, that’s why I ask these questions.


48 posted on 02/10/2010 9:04:23 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: PPlains

I’m not looking to solve questions about God, I’m just interested in getting people’s answers.


49 posted on 02/10/2010 9:10:37 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: stuartcr
I agree, that’s why I ask these questions.

Yes, those questions are valid, but what I said before strikes at the issue harder. After you read and think about my article, you may get a glimpse of what I mean.

Anyway, proceed...I'm interested in the responses.

50 posted on 02/10/2010 9:37:57 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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