Posted on 02/12/2010 8:33:51 AM PST by greyfoxx39
LDS version:
Hark! the Herald Angels Sing, no. 209
1. Hark! the herald angels sing
Glory to the newborn King!
Peace on earth and mercy mild,
God and sinners reconciled!
Joyful, all ye nations, rise;
Join the triumph of the skies;
With th’angelic host proclaim
Christ is born in Bethlehem!
[Chorus] Hark! the herald angels sing
Glory to the newborn King!
2. Hail the heav’n-born Prince of Peace!
Hail the Son of Righteousness!
Light and life to all he brings,
Ris’n with healing in his wings.
Mild he lays his glory by,
Born that man no more may die;
Born to raise the sons of earth,
Born to give them second birth.
OH MY HECK!!!!! We changed "With angelic" to "With th’angelic." And "Risen" to "Ris’n."
We must not be Christians because of that, and that alone.
Come on, there certainly are much more valid compaints against our church then this.
But remember, "when you hear the beautiful sounds put forth by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir listen, listen to the words." They just might be the same ones you are familiar with.
Because, apparently, in LDS doctrine, His grace is not sufficient. [rick]
No, in LDS doctrine, our works are not sufficient, only His grace is (but we still are required to do works). [tadpole]\
- - - - - - - -
Hey tadpole, long time no see.
The thing is, by stating that “but we still are required to do works” is AUTOMATICALLY saying that Christ’s grace is not sufficient. It is either entirly grace (Christian doctrine) or it is works based.
Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
Does that mean there will soon be a change in the doctrine regarding the Cross, since it means so much to Christians?
If by this you mean Mormons adding crosses in their chapels, I am pretty sure the answer is no. The difference in doctrine, as I understand it, is that we also consider the activities in the garden to be part of the Atonement, along with the activities on the cross. Both are important. Without the cross (and resurrection), we would not be able to return to live with God.
James 2 (the last half) also comes to mind. Peter 1:17 sure seems to say the Father judges according to our works.
Like I tried to say, God requires works. However, no matter how much "works" I do, I cannot approach the throne without the grace of Christ. My works are really a sign of my conversion or faith, but really do not save me. Only Christ's grace saves me.
But Christ does reach out and says "come, follow me."
One day, as we were tracting (knocking on doors) there was this guy following us. He would stand on the sidewalk and shout anti-Mormon stuff at us as we were talking to folks.
Eventually we approached him to chat. He stated something like this thread - that Mormons are not Christians because our hymns do not teach about Christ, etc.
Interestingly, we both happened to have our respective hymnals with us. We spend the next 15 minutes or so having a "hymnal bash." By the time we were done we were all laughing at the situation and left as civil friends.
Holy Holy Holy has been changed to eliminate the line in the first verse about the Trinty...
The Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing
“god in his glory blessed diety”
The original words were written as
“GOD IN THREE PERSONS, HOLY TRINITY”
If the mormons are Christians then why would the MAIN mormon choir under the umbrella of the president of the mormons,so famous and celebrated all overf the world, not boldly and Christian-like sing
“GOD IN THREE PERSONS HOLY TRINITY”
as all REAL Christians have always done...
In Humility, Our Savior, no. 172
1. In humility, our Savior,
Grant thy Spirit here, we pray,
As we bless the bread and water
_____________________________________________
TadPole, while there appears to be songs that the mormons sing that mention the Cross that Jesus died on and shed His Bood to save us...
That very Blood is denied and not celebrated in those same songs...
Jesus taught us to eat bread to represent His body broken for us and to drink WINE to represent His Blood that was shed for us until He came back again...
Although some Christians drink grape juice instead of wine, it still represents the Blood of Jesus and there is nothing wrong with that because it is still the “fruit of the vine”
But for the mormons to exchange wine for water is blasphemeous, and denies the power of the Blood of Jesus to save...
This very act of dieobedience and to the instructions of our Lord Jesus Christ, is blatant hypocrisy and blasphemy and excludes mormonism from being recognized or acknowledged as Christianity...
Actually, TAKE UP YOUR CROSS and follow me.
Yes, indeed, Mark 10:21 says “take up your cross and follow me.” But Matthew 19:21 has it as “and come and follow me” and Luke 18:22 has it as “and come, follow me.”
I have to admit, this one has me mixing all emotions. Humor. Confusion. Amazement.
But for the mormons to exchange wine for water is blasphemeous, and denies the power of the Blood of Jesus to save...
This very act of disobedience and to the instructions of our Lord Jesus Christ, is blatant hypocrisy and blasphemy and excludes mormonism from being recognized or acknowledged as Christianity...
I've seen all kinds of arguments for claiming Mormons are not Christians, but this is the first time I have heard this one. Blasphemy? That is pretty strong. And I can appreciate your emotion behind this, assuming your strong love for our Savior.
But I find it ironic that we were just discussing "works" and this sure sounds like you are claiming that a "work" actually does mean something. Are you suggesting that a Christian that doesn't participate in the sacrament of the Lord's supper is not a true Christian? If so, how often is this sacrament required? How about the Catholics and their taking this a step even further? Are they not Christian because they teach that "this is My body" "this is My blood?"
And for that matter, the "fruit of the vine" argument seems like justification, to me. Can we justify our way into heaven?
Like I said, this one has me astonished. Thanks for the new thought.
194
There Is a Green Hill Far Away
Reverently
31243, Hymns, There Is a Green Hill Far Away, no. 194
1. There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall,
Where the dear Lord was crucified,
Who died to save us all.
2. We may not know, we cannot tell,
What pains he had to bear,
But we believe it was for us
He hung and suffered there.
3. There was no other good enough
To pay the price of sin.
He only could unlock the gate
Of heav’n and let us in.
4. Oh, dearly, dearly has he loved!
And we must love him too,
And trust in his redeeming blood,
And try his works to do.
Text: Cecil Frances Alexander, 1818–1895
Music: John H. Gower, 1855–1922
John 19:16–20
Hebrews 13:12
175
O God, the Eternal Father
Worshipfully
31243, Hymns, O God, the Eternal Father, no. 175
1. O God, th’Eternal Father,
Who dwells amid the sky,
In Jesus’ name we ask thee
To bless and sanctify,
If we are pure before thee,
This bread and cup of wine,
That we may all remember
That offering divine—
2. That sacred, holy off’ring,
By man least understood,
To have our sins remitted
And take his flesh and blood,
That we may ever witness
The suff’ring of thy Son,
And always have his Spirit
To make our hearts as one.
3. When Jesus, the Anointed,
Descended from above
And gave himself a ransom
To win our souls with love—
With no apparent beauty,
That man should him desire—
He was the promised Savior,
To purify with fire.
4. How infinite that wisdom,
The plan of holiness,
That made salvation perfect
And veiled the Lord in flesh,
To walk upon his footstool
And be like man, almost,
In his exalted station,
And die, or all was lost.
Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872. Included in the first LDS hymnbook, 1835.
Music: Felix Mendelssohn, 1809–1847
D&C 20:77, 79
Isaiah 53:2–5
246
Onward, Christian Soldiers
Boldly
31243, Hymns, Onward, Christian Soldiers, no. 246
1. Onward, Christian soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
Christ, the royal Master,
Leads against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See his banners go!
[Chorus]
Onward, Christian soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
2. At the sign of triumph
Satan’s host doth flee;
On, then, Christian soldiers,
On to victory.
Hell’s foundations quiver
At the shout of praise;
Brothers, lift your voices,
Loud your anthems raise.
3. Like a mighty army
Moves the Church of God;
Brothers, we are treading
Where the Saints have trod.
We are not divided;
All one body we:
One in hope and doctrine,
One in charity.
4. Onward, then, ye people;
Join our happy throng.
Blend with ours your voices
In the triumph song:
Glory, laud, and honor
Unto Christ, the King.
This through countless ages
Men and angels sing.
Text: Sabine Baring-Gould, 1834–1924
Music: Arthur S. Sullivan, 1842–1900
Deuteronomy 31:6
2 Timothy 2:3
193
I Stand All Amazed
Thoughtfully
31243, Hymns, I Stand All Amazed, no. 193
1. I stand all amazed at the love Jesus offers me,
Confused at the grace that so fully he proffers me.
I tremble to know that for me he was crucified,
That for me, a sinner, he suffered, he bled and died.
[Chorus]
Oh, it is wonderful that he should care for me
Enough to die for me!
Oh, it is wonderful, wonderful to me!
2. I marvel that he would descend from his throne divine
To rescue a soul so rebellious and proud as mine,
That he should extend his great love unto such as I,
Sufficient to own, to redeem, and to justify.
3. I think of his hands pierced and bleeding to pay the debt!
Such mercy, such love and devotion can I forget?
No, no, I will praise and adore at the mercy seat,
Until at the glorified throne I kneel at his feet.
Text and music: Charles H. Gabriel, 1856–1932
Mosiah 3:5–8
John 15:13
142
Sweet Hour of Prayer
Peacefully
31243, Hymns, Sweet Hour of Prayer, no. 142
1. Sweet hour of prayer! Sweet hour of prayer!
That calls me from a world of care
And bids me at my Father’s throne
Make all my wants and wishes known.
In seasons of distress and grief,
My soul has often found relief
And oft escaped the tempter’s snare
By thy return, sweet hour of prayer!
And oft escaped the tempter’s snare
By thy return, sweet hour of prayer!
2. Sweet hour of prayer! Sweet hour of prayer!
Thy wings shall my petition bear
To him whose truth and faithfulness
Engage the waiting soul to bless.
And since he bids me seek his face,
Believe his word, and trust his grace,
I’ll cast on him my ev’ry care
And wait for thee, sweet hour of prayer!
I’ll cast on him my ev’ry care
And wait for thee, sweet hour of prayer!
Text: Attr. to William W. Walford, 1772–1850, alt.
Music: William B. Bradbury, 1816–1868, alt.
Psalm 55:16–17, 22
Philippians 4:6–7
165
Abide with Me; ’Tis Eventide
Prayerfully
31243, Hymns, Abide with Me; ’Tis Eventide, no. 165
1. Abide with me; ’tis eventide.
The day is past and gone;
The shadows of the evening fall;
The night is coming on.
Within my heart a welcome guest,
Within my home abide.
[Chorus]
O Savior, stay this night with me;
Behold, ’tis eventide.
O Savior, stay this night with me;
Behold, ’tis eventide.
2. Abide with me; ’tis eventide.
Thy walk today with me
Has made my heart within me burn,
As I communed with thee.
Thy earnest words have filled my soul
And kept me near thy side.
3. Abide with me; ’tis eventide,
And lone will be the night
If I cannot commune with thee
Nor find in thee my light.
The darkness of the world, I fear,
Would in my home abide.
Text: Lowrie M. Hofford
Music: Harrison Millard, 1830–1895
Luke 24:29 (13–32)
78
God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand
Energetically
31243, Hymns, God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand, no. 78
1. God of our fathers, whose almighty hand
Leads forth in beauty all the starry band
Of shining worlds in splendor through the skies,
Our grateful songs before thy throne arise.
2. Thy love divine hath led us in the past;
In this free land by thee our lot is cast.
Be thou our Ruler, Guardian, Guide, and Stay,
Thy word our law, thy paths our chosen way.
3. From war’s alarms, from deadly pestilence,
Be thy strong arm our ever-sure defense.
Thy true religion in our hearts increase.
Thy bounteous goodness nourish us in peace.
Text: Daniel C. Roberts, 1841–1907
Music: George W. Warren, 1828–1902
Psalm 33:12
Ether 2:12
83
Guide Us, O Thou Great Jehovah
Majestically
31243, Hymns, Guide Us, O Thou Great Jehovah, no. 83
1. Guide us, O thou great Jehovah,
Guide us to the promised land.
We are weak, but thou art able;
Hold us with thy pow’rful hand.
Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit,
Feed us till the Savior comes, [Alto and Tenor: Savior comes.]
Feed us till the Savior comes.
2. Open, Jesus, Zion’s fountains;
Let her richest blessings come.
Let the fiery, cloudy pillar
Guard us to this holy home.
Great Redeemer, Great Redeemer,
Bring, oh, bring the welcome day, [Alto and Tenor: welcome day!]
Bring, oh, bring the welcome day!
3. When the earth begins to tremble,
Bid our fearful thoughts be still;
When thy judgments spread destruction,
Keep us safe on Zion’s hill,
Singing praises, Singing praises,
Songs of glory unto thee, [Alto and Tenor: unto thee,]
Songs of glory unto thee.
Text: William Williams, 1717–1791. First verse trans. by Peter Williams, 1722–1796. Included in the first LDS hymnbook, 1835.
Music: John Hughes, 1873–1932
Exodus 13:21–22
D&C 45:57
They don't teach you to read the bible very well, do they?
Mt 10:38* And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mt 16:24* Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mr 8:34* And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Lu 9:23* And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Lu 14:27* And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Ga 6:14* But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
1Co 1:17* For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18* For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Ga 6:12* As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Eph 2:16* And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Php 3:18* (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
The first century church had the Cross at its very foremost.
Is KJV ok with you?
Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Heck, you even copied the references from my post.
And, I do seem to remember noting the companion verse in
Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
So I must be able to see (and read) the word cross.
Or are you arguing just for the sake of arguing? After all, I am a Mormon, so I must not be able to read the Bible.
Every verse I submitted contained cross mormonism is a cross-less religion, First century Christianity abounded in the cross
I refer to a scripture supporting a discussion I am having with someone else.
You correct me, saying I am quoting the scripture wrong.
I respond that we are both correct, and that of the three times the story is told, one agrees with your statement, and two agree with mine.
You then accuse me of not being able to read the Bible. In your reply you quote the references from my post, then spam a dozen other scriptures that are not from the original story.
I respond by fully quoting the scriptures under original discussion, showing that they say what I stated that they say.
Now you are stating that every verse you posted contained the word "cross." Indeed, they do. But whatever does that have to do with my original reference, that you corrected incorrectly?
So, once again, I now accuse you of arguing just for the sake of arguing. Since I am a mormon, I must not be able to read the Bible, when clearly, you are just blathering in a shotgun method.
If you want to discuss the cross and its symbolic relationship to the sacrifice of Christ, go for it. But don't accuse me of mis-quoting the Bible, then when shown that I wasn't mis-quoting, change the topic instead of apologizing.
Harsh
Welcome to FR- internet public square. ee moderators rule for the 'thin skinned'.
So, once again, I now accuse you of arguing just for the sake of arguing. Since I am a mormon, I must not be able to read the Bible, when clearly, you are just blathering in a shotgun method.
Were I to 'shotgun', multiple topics would have been raised. I raised only one - mormon refusal to honor the cross and embrace all that it is and means.
But don't accuse me of mis-quoting the Bible, then when shown that I wasn't mis-quoting, change the topic instead of apologizing.
When you reply, you cherry picked verses deliberately excluding the cross - I just took the time to correct and expand your knowledge base.
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