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Methodist church 'prepared to go out of existence'
Mail Online ^ | February 12, 2010 | Steve Doughty

Posted on 02/12/2010 7:55:56 PM PST by ComeUpHigher

Leaders of the Methodist Church yesterday offered to surrender more than 200 years of independence from the Church of England.

They said they were ready to 'cease having a separate existence' and merge with Anglicans to help the cause of Christianity.

The promise, made to the Church of England's parliament, the General Synod, follows two decades of growing anxiety among Methodists over falling membership and its receding influence in society.

Once seen as a pillar of working class culture and a major contributor to the thinking of the Labour Party, the church has seen its membership shrink to just 265,000.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: coe; europeanchristians; methodists; mormon; religion; umc
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1 posted on 02/12/2010 7:55:56 PM PST by ComeUpHigher
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To: ComeUpHigher
Once seen as a pillar of working class culture and a major contributor to the thinking of the Labour Party, the church has seen its membership shrink to just 265,000.

That is all you need to know.
2 posted on 02/12/2010 7:57:46 PM PST by dr_who
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To: ComeUpHigher

I have an idea - preach the Word of God!


3 posted on 02/12/2010 7:58:44 PM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: svcw

Amen and again I say Amen!


4 posted on 02/12/2010 8:00:19 PM PST by doc1019 (To call Obama a bumbling idiot would be an insult to bumbling idiots worldwide.)
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To: ComeUpHigher

That seems about right from what I have learned about the integrity of this sect.


5 posted on 02/12/2010 8:04:41 PM PST by Porterville ( I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum)
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To: dr_who

Methodism and other Low Church movements did provide a lot of impetus of the reforms we take for granted in the modern world for example, end of slavery. Like most of the Evangelical churches created at this time it was taken over by leftists.


6 posted on 02/12/2010 8:05:23 PM PST by C19fan
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To: ComeUpHigher

The Methodist Church of England might as well merge with Islam. More honest, and they may even find a wider acceptance.


7 posted on 02/12/2010 8:06:20 PM PST by alloysteel (....the Kennedys can be regarded as dysfunctional. Even in death.)
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To: svcw

That is really the sadness about this because the Wesley brothers were famous for their open air sermons and revivals.


8 posted on 02/12/2010 8:10:16 PM PST by C19fan
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To: ComeUpHigher

Making way for minarets and domes, no doubt.

Despicable.


9 posted on 02/12/2010 8:10:54 PM PST by James C. Bennett
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To: C19fan

The United Methodist Church over in the USA doesn’t seem very “evangelical” to me. They aren’t eager to bring guests to the covered dish dinners. It has its share of libs and Dems and seems to be the denomination with the most school teachers. Southern Baptists would fit the “evangelical” description better IMHO; however, there aren’t many liberals I know of who are Baptists.


10 posted on 02/12/2010 8:12:11 PM PST by dr_who
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To: C19fan

I had not thought of that aspect but you are correct. Very sad that their blessing has degraded to what is happening today. But when you take your eye off the Word of God that’s what happens.


11 posted on 02/12/2010 8:13:13 PM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: James C. Bennett

I wouldn’t assume that Islam is winning over Nth generation Brits away from Christianity.


12 posted on 02/12/2010 8:13:24 PM PST by dr_who
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To: dr_who

You are right but when these denominations came into existence in the 18th century they were the Evangelical movement of the time. Somehow churches like the Methodists lost their way and stopped preaching and instead became too enamored with taking up the latest lefist cause.


13 posted on 02/12/2010 8:15:36 PM PST by C19fan
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To: ComeUpHigher

This is not the Methodist church I know...but Methodist is a branch from The Church of England......I don’t think this story refers to the United Methodist Church outside of England....... so - maybe I’ll read the article and other responses after I hit the post button ....like I usually do.


14 posted on 02/12/2010 8:15:54 PM PST by rface
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To: dr_who

Perverse post-modern culture has a way of driving some people to Islam. Case and point, Cat Stevens.

Or this guy:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069#


15 posted on 02/12/2010 8:17:26 PM PST by James C. Bennett
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To: ComeUpHigher

The churches in England need to get out of the ‘class thing’. It’s a big part of the churches there. I know....lived there for almost a decade. Belonged to the Methodist church in my area and was turned off after a few months. “Oh, no, dear. You can’t sit there. Beatrice has ALWAYS sat there for 80 years on THIS pew.” (I was raised a Methodist, chortle.). Then I attempted to join C of E (even had our first born Christened at the local cathedral in our parish). I was quickly told that I could not offer my ‘musical contributions’ until I’d ‘proven myself in church first’.......WHATEVER IN THE HECK that meant. They need to be more welcoming.


16 posted on 02/12/2010 8:17:31 PM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear (I don't have a 'Cousin Pookie'.)
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To: ComeUpHigher

Both of ther founders would disown them.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them

Eph 5:11 Reprove them - To avoid them is not enough.

2Th 3:14 Have no company with him - No intimacy, no familiarity, no needless correspondence. - John Wesley


17 posted on 02/12/2010 8:19:09 PM PST by daniel1212 ("Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [only Biblical object of petition] shall be saved")
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To: ejonesie22

methodist ping, thought you might have some input on this.


18 posted on 02/12/2010 8:20:25 PM PST by reaganaut ("I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: dr_who

Didn’t know that, but I do know that the Methodists are very liberal.


19 posted on 02/12/2010 8:21:52 PM PST by FrdmLvr ("The people will believe what the media tells them they believe." Orwell)
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To: ComeUpHigher

An old buddy of mine always said he was an Outdoor Methodist. Hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, etc on Sunday mornings...he got plenty of converts, too.


20 posted on 02/12/2010 8:25:44 PM PST by bigbob
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To: dr_who
there aren’t many liberals I know of who are Baptists.

There's always Jimmy


21 posted on 02/12/2010 8:25:47 PM PST by Lee N. Field (Come, behold the works of the LORD, how he has brought desolations on the earth.)
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To: ComeUpHigher
"They said they were ready to 'cease having a separate existence' and merge with Anglicans to help the cause of Christianity."

Kind of like the failing nations of Europe joining together and creating the failing European Union?

How can two organizations that aren't Christian think that their joining together helps the cause of Christianity?

More accurate would be to say that their joining forces helps their shared commitment to discredit and dilute Christianity.

22 posted on 02/12/2010 8:30:28 PM PST by TheClintons-STILLAnti-American
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To: C19fan
Secular humanism is an ongoing journey, not a destination. Even if you go past the point where people have to appreciate the consequences of their actions or think critically. Eventually though, the "merciful" answer to everything is to simply "pull the plug".
23 posted on 02/12/2010 8:31:40 PM PST by dr_who
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To: Lee N. Field

True. But Carter is a BINO.


24 posted on 02/12/2010 8:32:42 PM PST by dr_who
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To: dr_who

“a pillar of working class culture and a major contributor to the thinking of the Labour Party..”

Marxists don’t care one iota for useful idiot Christians. Alliance with the dirtbag Labour socialists is a one way ticket to extinction.


25 posted on 02/12/2010 8:32:59 PM PST by FormerACLUmember (The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. - H. L. Menken.)
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To: FrdmLvr

Not all of them. Some just like banana pudding.


26 posted on 02/12/2010 8:33:45 PM PST by dr_who
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To: FormerACLUmember

“Democratic socialists” (or “progressives”, etc) are Marxists who are in denial.


27 posted on 02/12/2010 8:34:58 PM PST by dr_who
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To: FormerACLUmember

...either that or, as you say, insidious liars and Christianity haters.


28 posted on 02/12/2010 8:37:01 PM PST by dr_who
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To: svcw
I had not thought of that aspect but you are correct. Very sad that their blessing has degraded to what is happening today. But when you take your eye off the Word of God that’s what happens.

There is a lesson here for the ELCA, if they're bright enough to see it.

29 posted on 02/12/2010 8:37:51 PM PST by ThunderSleeps (obama out now! I'll keep my money, my guns, and my freedom - you can keep the change.)
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To: James C. Bennett

I still see that as an exception to the rule. ie wierdos.


30 posted on 02/12/2010 8:38:21 PM PST by dr_who
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To: dr_who

...and deviled eggs!


31 posted on 02/12/2010 8:39:27 PM PST by dr_who
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To: ComeUpHigher

I didn’t think of the Methodist church as merging with the Anglicans, but only yesterday, I was praying for them.

All are welcome to come the way of the Catholic Church. Sit down with the priest and get your questions answered......perhaps you have been misinformed by someone who didn’t want you to know the truth about the Catholic Church.

Prayers for all.


32 posted on 02/12/2010 8:43:05 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: C19fan

Leftists cannot create, but they can destroy.


33 posted on 02/12/2010 8:43:37 PM PST by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: C19fan


That is really the sadness about this because the Wesley brothers were
famous for their open air sermons and revivals.

I’m not a Methodist...but do recall that one of the Wesley brothers
recorded in his diary that he was having increasing difficulty getting
out of bed at five AM to get around to give sermons.
And he was about 85 years old at the time.


34 posted on 02/12/2010 8:48:37 PM PST by VOA (f)
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To: svcw

What kind of radical are you? There’s Causes to be pursued and Social Injustice afoot in the world to be set aright. That’s kind of like preaching the Word of God isn’t it? Isn’t it?


35 posted on 02/12/2010 8:57:58 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

No it is not.


36 posted on 02/12/2010 9:01:36 PM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: count-your-change
Ok, not in the sense that you apparently mean it.
37 posted on 02/12/2010 9:02:19 PM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: svcw

It’s subtle and kinda creeps up on ya. Preaching the word does seem to the last thing some want to do.


38 posted on 02/12/2010 9:19:30 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Lee N. Field
And don't forget bubba:


39 posted on 02/12/2010 10:13:57 PM PST by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Salvation
But, you know, it is sad. As these towers of Protestantism fall, there is an honest effort to re-read the scripture with the fresh eye, -- a noble impulse -- that is buried underneath.

those eighteen upon whom the tower fell in Siloe, and slew them: think you, that they also were debtors above all the men that dwelt in Jerusalem? No, I say to you; but except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish (Luke 13)

40 posted on 02/12/2010 10:28:38 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
Douay-Rheims is shown to be especially poor in this verse...

metanoeo has no resemblance to the meaning of the word 'penance.' It's literal translation means to 'change the mind, to reconsider - be convinced'. In context it's closest approximation in English is 'repent.'

The falling away of the Methodist church in England is sad, but it is a symptom of a greater dissolution in the West and in post-war Europe in particular, where an existential crisis has taken deep root in the form of post-modernism. The church in all her branches has not been exempt from this, either.

Even so, come quickly Lord.

41 posted on 02/12/2010 11:45:10 PM PST by Sparticus (Libs, they're so open minded that their brains leaked out.)
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To: Sparticus
The falling away of the Methodist church in England is sad, but it is a symptom of a greater dissolution in the West and in post-war Europe in particular, where an existential crisis has taken deep root in the form of post-modernism. The church in all her branches has not been exempt from this, either.

See Escape from Reason and The God Who Is There by Francis Schaeffer for a discussion of this phenomenon.
42 posted on 02/12/2010 11:49:31 PM PST by aruanan
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To: ComeUpHigher

ping


43 posted on 02/13/2010 5:30:06 AM PST by alrea
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To: reaganaut
The Methodist church is enduring the same battles as others with leftist/liberal clergy. In the US the difference between the average Methodist Church in the North and one in the South are rather noticeable.

I, like others, still hold to what the Church was and hope to endure until these fads pass. We choose to stay and defend our church home instead of abandoning it.

It will be a close race...

44 posted on 02/13/2010 6:48:29 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: Lee N. Field

***There is always Jimmy***

Is he trying to baptize a rabbit or is the rabbit trying to baptize Jimmy?


45 posted on 02/13/2010 8:03:22 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (GP-35 Grande Puissance-1935 and S&W .44)
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To: dr_who; James C. Bennett
I wouldn’t assume that Islam is winning over Nth generation Brits away from Christianity.

It doesn't have to. The Muslims just need to keep having more children as growing immigrants -- and as growing families to the UK (have you seen the avg. worldwide age of Muslims?...all the while UKians are slowly unreproducing themselves out of eventual existence as a people group

46 posted on 02/13/2010 8:43:32 AM PST by Colofornian (As the Lds once were, the fLDS are; as the fLDS are, the LDS will become.)
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To: Sparticus

In fact, I would insist that the Catholic translation reflects most accurately the meaning.

It is true, indeed, that “metanoiete” literally means “change your mind”. But so the “Spirit”, “Ruach” means “breath”, “Resurrection” means “stand up again”, etc. We translate meanings, not root components.

So what is the meaning of “metanoiete”? The immediate context in Luke leads up to the parable of the fruitless fig tree; the gardener pledges to apply work to it: dig around it and fertilize it. Next, the pharisees accuse Jesus of what? of working, on a Sabbath. So the immediate context points not to changing of the mind but of physical deeds.

Who said “metanoiete” first? St. John the Baptist. What example did he give? Ascetism: hair shirt, fasting, solitude, the classic forms of penance. Again, the meaning is that we should do something, not just think something.

Jesus Himself showed us not just thoughts but deeds: He fasted, went alone for forty days, climbed mountains to pray, and let His flesh be abused.

But one person, Judas, — he “repented”. Changed his mind.

So, no, Douay is the only translation to read if you read in English. Other translations have merits, especially Catholic ones, but accuracy is not one of them.


47 posted on 02/13/2010 9:01:45 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
Who said “metanoiete” first? St. John the Baptist. What example did he give? Ascetism: hair shirt, fasting, solitude, the classic forms of penance. Again, the meaning is that we should do something, not just think something.

You're getting the cart before the horse. When he told the Pharisees and Sadducees to produce fruit in keeping with repentance he was not telling them to suit up in camel's hair clothing and to pick up a super-repentance sized container of honey-covered locusts. The specific act mentioned was baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
48 posted on 02/13/2010 9:12:19 AM PST by aruanan
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To: aruanan

First, that is not the only example of penance I gave, and I could give more.

Second, the baptism of St. John, as well as the Christian baptism, is linked to metanoia. In nearly all examples of baptism in the Bible they occur together.

If you wish to argue that what St. John did had no relationship to what he preached, — maybe he liked camel hair! — well, go ahead and argue that. As Catholic, I’ll stick to what the Bible is telling me, and I don’t think the acts of penance done by St. John are there by accident.


49 posted on 02/13/2010 9:34:26 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: ComeUpHigher

Once a church gives up on the inerrancy of scripture, in either thought or deed, then this is always the fate. The gradual takeover of liberal and humanistic philosophy and the subsequent decline and collapse. “Did God really say.....”


50 posted on 02/13/2010 10:24:01 AM PST by circlecity
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