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Not enough sex talk in churches or seminaries, report says
Austin American Statesman ^ | February 12, 2010 | Joshunda Sanders

Posted on 02/12/2010 8:59:17 PM PST by ComeUpHigher

Gender and sexuality have caused divisions in the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion. Same-sex unions are upheld in some churches and not in others; the same is true for gay clergy. While there are more than 3,300 churches that affirm lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender congregants, 57 percent of Protestant clergy hardly ever discuss issues specific to the gay and lesbian community.

But according to "Sexuality and Religion 2020," a report released this week, they probably should.

The report was published by the Westport, Conn.-based Religious Institute, a national interfaith network of more than 5,000 clergy and religious leaders.

On Tuesday, the report's authors described a "disconnect between religion and sexuality in America" and called for churches, synagogues and seminaries to work on narrowing the divide between faith and sex in the next decade.

(Excerpt) Read more at statesman.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: abstinence; homosexualagenda; marriage; moralabsolutes; religion; sex
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1 posted on 02/12/2010 8:59:17 PM PST by ComeUpHigher
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To: ComeUpHigher

All I need to know I learned from the Bible.


2 posted on 02/12/2010 9:05:09 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: ComeUpHigher
From the point of view of Catholics -- this is an excellent guide on this subject.

For your information:

Christopher West's Theology of the Body Webiste

Books, tapes, CDs, DVDs, etc.

From book by the same name by Pope John Paul II.

Theologian Calls Christopher West's Work Completely Sound
Fatima and the Theology of the Body: Part II
By His Fruits You Shall Know Him: A Defense of Christopher West

Fatima and the Theology of the Body: Part I
Christopher West’s ideas on sexuality ignore ‘tremendous dangers,’ Alice von Hildebrand says
New Theology of the Body Translation released
Teaching the Theology of the Body
Twins, Communion, Civil and Sacramental Marriage and the Theology of the Body

3 posted on 02/12/2010 9:10:09 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Three lies America bought into;

Never talk about politics, religion and sex.

So here we are ... 2010 ... and our problems are in which areas?

Politics, religion and sex.

4 posted on 02/12/2010 9:14:42 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: knarf

Did you go to the link and read the article?


5 posted on 02/12/2010 9:21:24 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 69ConvertibleFirebird; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; Agitate; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; ...
Homosexual Agenda and Moral Absolutes Ping!

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Actually, they're right. Congregations should be taught that men are supposed to be husbands and fathers (or celibate single men) and that women are meant to be wives and mothers, or celibate single women. They should be taught that homosexuality is a disorder, a psychological and spiritual illness, and is treatable, and that no one is born "gay". People should be taught that sexuality outside of marriage is wrong, harmful, degrading to the individuals involved, ruinous to the illegitimate children born by "accident", and the resultant broken families ruin society.

People should be taught that instant gratification and "if it feels good, do it" are not only completely ungodly but false philosophies that lead to personal despair, emptiness and misery. People should be taught that "as you sow, so shall you reap" is not a sectarian dogma, but an eternal law that applies to everyone, whether they "believe" it or not.

Yes, churches, synagogues, temples and all houses of worship of every denomination, sect and religion should teach the truth about sex.

6 posted on 02/12/2010 9:24:29 PM PST by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: ComeUpHigher
It took me less than 2 seconds after going to the website of the so called "Religious Institute", the organization responsible for the study mentioned in the article, to see what they are up to. Make no mistake: the Great Deceiver is at work in many of the churches in this country so that the lost hear what they want to hear and not what they need to hear.
7 posted on 02/12/2010 9:27:06 PM PST by ThomasSawyer (Democratic Underground: Proof that anyone can figure out how to use a computer.)
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To: ComeUpHigher

Mark Driscoll, a very conservative Calvinist preacher at a Seattle megachurch has done a recent sermon series on marital love and the Song of Solomon. It was a truly great series on the joys of sex in a Christian marriage ... or, as he calls it, “hot, hetero, covenental monogamy”.

The headonists have hijacked sexuality, and proliferated the lie that Christian marital monogamy is stuffy, lights-off, restricted, and only for procreation.

Its long past time for us Christians to start a PR movement for fantastic monogamous martial hetero sex.

SnakeDoc


8 posted on 02/12/2010 9:29:59 PM PST by SnakeDoctor (I am Jack's smirking revenge.)
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To: ComeUpHigher

Not what I am interested in hearing about at church. And I am not interested in any church that is obsessed with sex.


9 posted on 02/12/2010 9:36:24 PM PST by La Lydia
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To: DJ MacWoW

I didn’t until you asked ... so I did .... and ?


10 posted on 02/12/2010 9:44:51 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: knarf

Do you really think churches need sex ed on being inclusive?


11 posted on 02/12/2010 9:46:59 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: ThomasSawyer

4 chicks and a guy make up the staff.


12 posted on 02/12/2010 9:49:24 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: ComeUpHigher
Sex seems to be nearly all that we do talk about in our society. As a pastor, it is impossible not to talk about sexual issues. It is NOT that we do not talk about human sexuality, but it is that we disagree about human sexuality. The premise of this article is that we are not talking about sexuality unless we accept and promote homosexuality and bisexuality as natural and normal sexuality.
13 posted on 02/12/2010 9:52:27 PM PST by Nosterrex
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To: DJ MacWoW
I think you misunderstand my original comment.

I don't necesarily mean talk about this in church, rather .. not be silent within and as a society.

14 posted on 02/12/2010 9:53:01 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: knarf
Well the gays certainly aren't silent. But they are trying to silence churches that speak the truth.

This isn't because no one spoke up. It's because the homosexuals have made themselves look like victims.

15 posted on 02/12/2010 9:58:11 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: little jeremiah

What you said.....


16 posted on 02/12/2010 10:00:36 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: SnakeDoctor
Its long past time for us Christians to start a PR movement for fantastic monogamous martial hetero sex.

Or as my hubby is fond of saying, "And God made sex, and it was VERY good!" ;o)

17 posted on 02/12/2010 10:01:44 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Salvation
they probably should

Of course they should. Good catch.

18 posted on 02/12/2010 10:15:14 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: ThomasSawyer
It took me less than 2 seconds after going to the website of the so called "Religious Institute", the organization responsible for the study mentioned in the article, to see what they are up to.

I'll bet it was this pic that clued you in...

Anyway, in the report as described by the article http://www.statesman.com/news/local/not-enough-sex-talk-in-churches-or-seminaries-233513.html it seems they are criticizing churches for not doing enough for LGBT (Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender) persons, rather than saying that these churches don't talk enough about the sexual aspect of the husband/wife in a normal heterosexual marriage.

LGBT persons would be better off joining a church more freindly and accepting of them such as the MCC or Unitarian churches, rather than trying to get get the more conservative traditional-family oriented churches to accept them.

19 posted on 02/12/2010 10:16:49 PM PST by Screaming_Gerbil (Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.")
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To: DJ MacWoW

You should attend my parish here in Hollywood. Every other mass they make everyone feel guilty because we dont have “gay friends’ and that we should ‘have gay masses”.

Everytime it’s gay week, they show up in droves, If it’s NOT gay week, they are nowhere to be seen. In other words, gay first, Christian second.


20 posted on 02/12/2010 10:26:37 PM PST by max americana
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To: ComeUpHigher

Are they going to do a study to see if there’s enough God talk in brothels and porn palaces?


21 posted on 02/12/2010 10:51:21 PM PST by TigersEye (It's the Marxism, stupid! ... And they call themselves Progressives.)
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To: Screaming_Gerbil
"LGBT persons would be better off joining a church more freindly and accepting of them such as the MCC or Unitarian churches, rather than trying to get get the more conservative traditional-family oriented churches to accept them."

Spiritually, it would be better for them to accept Christ as their personal savior and repent. Christ welcomes all that desire to come to him and repent of their sin. He saved the adultress from stoning, but then told her to go and sin no more. For those who define themselves by their sexual choices, it's not about acceptance of them as a person. It's about acceptance of their sinful lifestyle. They want all Christian churches to discard biblical truths so as to suit their choices regarding sexual activity. However, true bible-based churches will not even discard biblical truths when it comes to heterorsexuals in the case extra-marital heterosexual relations.
22 posted on 02/12/2010 11:11:43 PM PST by ThomasSawyer (Democratic Underground: Proof that anyone can figure out how to use a computer.)
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To: max americana
You should attend my parish here in Hollywood. Every other mass they make everyone feel guilty because we dont have “gay friends’ and that we should ‘have gay masses”.

No offense, but...why do you still go to this church? People really need to be willing to vote with their feet when it comes to this godlessness.
23 posted on 02/12/2010 11:45:33 PM PST by newguy357
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To: newguy357

I agree, but it’s within walking distance. The only truly conservative church I know of is 30 minutes away.


24 posted on 02/13/2010 12:03:46 AM PST by max americana
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To: ThomasSawyer
"LGBT persons would be better off joining a church more freindly and accepting of them such as the MCC or Unitarian churches, rather than trying to get get the more conservative traditional-family oriented churches to accept them."

Spiritually, it would be better for them to accept Christ as their personal savior and repent. Christ welcomes all that desire to come to him and repent of their sin. He saved the adultress from stoning, but then told her to go and sin no more. For those who define themselves by their sexual choices, it's not about acceptance of them as a person. It's about acceptance of their sinful lifestyle. They want all Christian churches to discard biblical truths so as to suit their choices regarding sexual activity. However, true bible-based churches will not even discard biblical truths when it comes to heterosexuals in the case extra-marital heterosexual relations.

I really don't mean to argue which religious view is correct. What I was referring to is that once people have their set beliefs that they will not budge on - such as that God loves and accepts all people whether gay or straight (in he case of gays who attend gay-friendly churches), it is better to respect others' differences of opinion and stick to a church that reflects one's beliefs rather than trying to change other people's churches.

Some gays / LBGT people seem to be at war with conservative Christianity due to deep-seated issues over having been bullied and beaten up and gotten no sympathy for it when they were a young person, and now they are hyper-sensitive and out to even the score against larger "straight" society.

The gay lobby groups (HRC, for example) make a lot money in the way of donations feeding into this wanting to get back at straight society by getting in their faces and getting laws passed that the people who hate them will have to obey or be in violation of the law.

The psychologically healthier approach I think would be to just let what happened in the past go, don't get upset knowing that you cannot make everyone love and accept you, and find a safe space with accepting people to worship and hang out with.

25 posted on 02/13/2010 5:17:51 AM PST by Screaming_Gerbil (Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.")
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To: ComeUpHigher

Not enough in church, too much in seminaries.


26 posted on 02/13/2010 5:19:28 AM PST by anton
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To: max americana; newguy357
No offense, but...why do you still go to this church? People really need to be willing to vote with their feet when it comes to this godlessness.

I agree, but it’s within walking distance. The only truly conservative church I know of is 30 minutes away.

I don't mean to sound mean here, but you should know that the people who want to change a church (some people would even go so far as to call it "taking over a church") to be more "gay-friendly" rely on people just like yourself doing exactly what you are doing.

Think about it - the truly conservative church is not seeing you among the people in attendance and is not receiving your offerings, whilst the church that has the gay masses is.

Maybe consider going once a month to the church that is further away and saving up your donations to give to them instead?

27 posted on 02/13/2010 5:26:48 AM PST by Screaming_Gerbil (Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.")
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To: ComeUpHigher
 
 

What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?
 




prophet kimball"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982


spencer kimball"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65


spencer kimball"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
-
Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196


"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.


kimball"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965


"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155


"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.








28 posted on 02/13/2010 5:54:50 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: little jeremiah

Well said, lj.


29 posted on 02/13/2010 6:21:26 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SnakeDoctor
"Mark Driscoll, a very conservative Calvinist preacher at a Seattle megachurch has done a recent sermon series on marital love and the Song of Solomon."

Driscoll's Sermons on Song of Soloman were totally wacked out. I lost all respect for him upon hearing them. They told us much more about Driscoll than about the scripture at hand. Anything to fill the pews and keep that money coming. MacArthur has a series of videos showing just how far off the mark Driscoll was with those sermons.

30 posted on 02/13/2010 6:53:39 AM PST by circlecity
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To: SuziQ
Or as my hubby is fond of saying, "And God made sex, and it was is VERY good!" ;o)

Fixed it for you.

31 posted on 02/13/2010 7:48:16 AM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: max americana

It is your place of worship, but why are you still there?


32 posted on 02/13/2010 7:49:22 AM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: max americana
I agree, but it’s within walking distance. The only truly conservative church I know of is 30 minutes away.

You can't be serious...

33 posted on 02/13/2010 7:56:15 AM PST by Future Snake Eater ("Get out of the boat and walk on the water with us!”--Sen. Joe Biden)
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To: scripter; wagglebee; DirtyHarryY2K; manc

So I guess it’s okay now.


34 posted on 02/13/2010 8:15:46 AM PST by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: Screaming_Gerbil
"I really don't mean to argue which religious view is correct. What I was referring to is that once people have their set beliefs that they will not budge on - such as that God loves and accepts all people whether gay or straight (in he case of gays who attend gay-friendly churches), it is better to respect others' differences of opinion and stick to a church that reflects one's beliefs rather than trying to change other people's churches. Some gays / LBGT people seem to be at war with conservative Christianity due to deep-seated issues over having been bullied and beaten up and gotten no sympathy for it when they were a young person, and now they are hyper-sensitive and out to even the score against larger "straight" society. The gay lobby groups (HRC, for example) make a lot money in the way of donations feeding into this wanting to get back at straight society by getting in their faces and getting laws passed that the people who hate them will have to obey or be in violation of the law. The psychologically healthier approach I think would be to just let what happened in the past go, don't get upset knowing that you cannot make everyone love and accept you, and find a safe space with accepting people to worship and hang out with."

I don't know that you and I are much in disagreement. I just think we're approaching this in two different ways. A point I am trying to make is that it's not about welcoming them and acceptance of them as a person. I have never been to a church where you had to check in at the front door with someone to make sure you were holy enough to enter in. If that were the case, a lot of us wouldn't have made it past the front door. Yet the militant LGBT groups attempt to set up this straw man that churches aren't welcoming to them as if there is some litmus test to prevent them from walking through the front door, sitting in a pew, and receiving the word of God. As a result, hurches that have traded in the true gospel for a socially acceptable gospel go right along and hang the rainbow banner (a symbol of a promise from God which the LGBT groups have chosen to defile) saying "All Are Welcome" as if to say 'we're not like all those hateful and intolerant conservative Christian churches'. The truth is, it's not the churches that are unwelcoming to LGBT person's but LGBT person's who are unwelcoming to the Word of God.
35 posted on 02/13/2010 8:34:47 AM PST by ThomasSawyer (Democratic Underground: Proof that anyone can figure out how to use a computer.)
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To: max americana
You should attend my parish here in Hollywood.

You have a new Bishop on the way, chosen by the Holy See. Let's see how things go after he settles in. (...and we have one of those parishes in Sacramento too.)

36 posted on 02/13/2010 8:47:20 AM PST by ElkGroveDan (Now can we forget about that old rum-runner Joe Kennedy and his progeny of philandering drunks?)
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To: Screaming_Gerbil

>>Maybe consider going once a month to the church that is further away and saving up your donations to give to them instead?

True. No matter how much they plead for “pledges” and donations in this recession, it has stayed the same for 3 years now LOL.

I cant stop giving my measly donations because I figured I’m giving to God, not to the parish.

The most recent time I did NOT give my $$$ for mass when a LESBIAN was giving her speech about her gay son, which turned into a lecture, not a sermon. I went out, found a bum across the street and gave it to him.


37 posted on 02/13/2010 9:07:17 AM PST by max americana
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To: Screaming_Gerbil

any decent church should not be accepting of any kind of mental perverted illness except to help them and see their ways back into normal society.

the homosexuals have gone after the church and the military as those two institutions have stood for morals and tradition, a back bone of this country.
the pervs hate it and thus they go after them, they know they can’t win so they join it trying to make others believe their crap
it’s like on here wiht some perverts who come on and try to make others think they’re normal

they’re not and what they do to each other is not normal


38 posted on 02/13/2010 12:26:06 PM PST by manc (WILL OBAMA EVER GO TO CHURCH ON A SUNDAY OR WILL HE LET THE MEDIA/THE LEFT BE FOOLED FOR EVER)
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To: circlecity
SEX!

It SURE gets our attention; eh!?

39 posted on 02/13/2010 2:39:17 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: circlecity
Driscoll's Sermons on Song of Soloman were totally wacked out.

I guess I'll have to take YOUR word for it, but I WOULD like to look at any evidence you might have.

40 posted on 02/13/2010 2:40:16 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Apparently it’s captured yours.


41 posted on 02/13/2010 2:40:44 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Future Snake Eater
The only truly conservative church I know of is 30 minutes away.

Traveling at what speed?

42 posted on 02/13/2010 2:41:13 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ThomasSawyer
 
Some gays / LBGT people seem to be at war with conservative Christianity due to deep-seated issues over having been bullied and beaten up and gotten no sympathy for it when they were a young person, and now they are hyper-sensitive and out to even the score against larger "straight" society.
 
Good luck with THAT little venture!


 

Genesis 13:13
 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21 
  Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. 

They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." 

Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Ain't this just FABULOUS??      More?

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....



43 posted on 02/13/2010 2:43:29 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

If the church in question travels at a higher speed than 15 mph, it’s a miracle.


44 posted on 02/13/2010 2:44:32 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: max americana
I went out, found a bum across the street and gave it to him.

 
 
 

; ^ )

45 posted on 02/13/2010 2:46:06 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: trisham

lol


46 posted on 02/13/2010 2:48:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: trisham
Apparently it’s captured yours.
 
It has captured a lot!

 

 

2 Nephi 3:12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins write; and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together,

2 Nephi 3:18 And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it.

Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 27   Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 31    Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together


47 posted on 02/13/2010 2:51:00 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

LOL!


48 posted on 02/13/2010 2:51:33 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Elsie
"I guess I'll have to take YOUR word for it, but I WOULD like to look at any evidence you might have."

I could never say it as eloquently as Pastor John MacArthur did, so read his four part series, "The rape of Solomon's song."

49 posted on 02/13/2010 3:05:21 PM PST by circlecity
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To: ComeUpHigher; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

50 posted on 02/13/2010 5:16:29 PM PST by narses ("lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi")
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