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Catholic Biblical Apologetics; Christ...instituted an obligatory hierarchical society for all.
CatholicApologetics.org ^ | 02-16-10 | Dr. Robert Schihl and Paul Flanagan

Posted on 02/16/2010 8:07:04 PM PST by Salvation

Catholic Biblical Apologetics


Apologetics without apology!


What does the Roman Catholic Church teach about ...? ... and why?

This website surveys the origin and development of Roman Catholic Christianity from the period of the apostolic church, through the post-apostolic church and into the conciliar movement. Principal attention is paid to the biblical basis of both doctrine and dogma as well as the role of paradosis (i.e. handing on the truth) in the history of the Church. Particular attention is also paid to the hierarchical founding and succession of leadership throughout the centuries.

This is a set of lecture notes used since 1985 to teach the basis for key doctrines and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. The objectives of the course were, and are:

The course grew out of the need for the authors to continually answer questions about their faith tradition and their work. (Both authors are active members of Catholic parish communities in the Diocese of Richmond, Virginia. Dr. Robert Schihl was a Professor and Associate Dean of the School of Communication and the Arts at Regent University. Paul Flanagan is a consultant specializing in preparing people for technology based changes.) At the time these notes were first prepared, the authors were spending time in their faith community answering questions about their Protestant Evangelical workplaces (Mr. Flanagan was then a senior executive at the Christian Broadcasting Network), and time in their workplaces answering similar questions about their Roman Catholic faith community. These notes are the result of more than a decade of facilitating dialogue among those who wish to learn more about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and why.

Christ at the same time instituted an obligatory hierarchical society for all people.

 

Christ at the same time instituted an obligatory hierarchical society for all people.

This was confirmed by the way the Apostles acted:

Acts 1 - 12
These chapters narrate the exercise of the threefold powers of the Twelve Apostles as well as the miracles through which God confirmed their apostolic powers.

The Apostles took to themselves and exercised the power of teaching:

Mk 16:19-20
So then the Lord Jesus, after he spoke to them, was taken up into heaven and took his seat at the right hand of God. But they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the word through accompanying signs.
Act 5:12-42
Many signs and wonders were done among the people at the hands of the apostles. ... (the angel of the Lord) ... said, "Go and take your place in the temple area, and tell the people everything about this life." When they heard this, they went to the temple early in the morning and taught. ... Then someone came in and reported to them, "The men whom you put in prison are in the temple area and are teaching the people." ... And all day long, both at the temple and in their homes, they did not stop teaching and proclaiming the Messiah, Jesus.

The Apostles took to themselves and exercised the power of sanctifying:

Act 2:14, 37-38
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice, and proclaimed to them (the Pentecost crowd), ... Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, "What are we to do, my brothers?" Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit."

The Apostles took to themselves and exercised the power of ruling:

making laws

Act 15:1- 16:5
The Council of Jerusalem

making judgments

Act 5:1-11
Ananias, Sapphira and their deception regarding the sale price of their property

The Apostles understood that their powers were hierarchically conferred:

Act 1:16-26
in designating a successor to Judas
Gal 1:1, 12, 18 and 2:2, 7-9
in establishing, understanding and confirming the apostolate of Paul
Act 14:23
in designating priests for the churches
Act 6:1-6
in ordaining deacons

The Apostles also understood that their powers were to be exercised hierarchically:

Act 2:37-43
in uniting and governing the primitive church community
Act 8:2-25
in building and confirming all the churches of Samaria
Act 11:20-26
in building and confirming the church in Antioch
Act 9:31; 15:36
in the vigilance over the newly constituted churches
Act 10:1-48
in admitting gentiles into the church
Act 15: 1-31
in deciding the grave question of judaizing

This society which Christ instituted He called the Church.

The Greek, ekklesia, and the Latin, ecclesia, translates the Hebrew, qahal, meaning principally, assembly.

In the New Testament, the word occurs 114 times, 3 times in Matthew's Gospel, 23 times in the Acts of the Apostles, 63 times in Paul's epistles, 20 times in Revelation, and 5 times within the other epistles of the Apostles. The term ekklesia, ecclesia, church was used exclusively by the authors of the New testament for the gathering of Christians while the word, synagoge, was reserved to signify the gathering of Jews.

Mt 16:18-19
"And so I say to you, you are 'Rock', and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Mt 18:17
"If he refuses to listen to them (two or three witnesses), tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector."


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: apologetics; bible; catholic; catholiclist; moapb
Continuing with Christ, the Church and the Apostles.
1 posted on 02/16/2010 8:07:05 PM PST by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; Lady In Blue; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; Catholicguy; RobbyS; markomalley; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

2 posted on 02/16/2010 8:08:54 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

The heirarchy was You > Jesus > God.

Everything else is manmade


3 posted on 02/16/2010 8:19:06 PM PST by GeronL (Dignity is earned from yourself. Respect is earned from others.)
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To: GeronL

I think you’ve got that reversed, LOL!


4 posted on 02/16/2010 8:21:23 PM PST by James C. Bennett
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To: GeronL

Christ chose the apostles — so they are a part of it too. Then they ordained priests, deacons, but the power came from the Holy Spirit and Christ.


5 posted on 02/16/2010 8:22:07 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Well said Salvation.

Thank you for posting this.


6 posted on 02/16/2010 8:32:35 PM PST by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (To those who believe the world was safer with Saddam, get treatment for that!)
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To: Salvation
Christ...instituted an obligatory hierarchical society for all.

No He didn't. He organised a local church, and told it to propagate itself as other local churches. There is no earthly authority in Christianity above the local church pastor.

7 posted on 02/16/2010 10:13:47 PM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (We bury Democrats face down so that when they scratch, they get closer to home.)
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To: Salvation
It really is quite simple if you think about it. Would Donald Trump start a new business that would be here until the end of time, then just walk away and let it run itself?

I don't think so, it would fall apart. He would appoint a president and vice presidents to make sure it ran as it should. The business would never prosper if left unattended.

The same with the Catholic Church. Do you really think Jesus would set up his church here on earth and then just let it run itself. Take a look around at all the different denomination there are today. Who would be right?

Jesus set up his church here on earth with a president (Peter) and his vice presidents (the apostles) so that the church would remain true to what his teaching are. The church has not been perfect, but that is what you get when you leave things to men, unperfect human beings as we are, we fail, but the church never does. That is because God uses the Holy Spirit to guide the Catholic Church in the truth.

Think about it, the Catholic Church has followed through for 2000 years, but about 500 years ago a split happened that lead to over 25,000 new denominations. I ask again, Who is right? The Catholic Church, with all of its problems is still the true church here on earth that was started by Jesus Christ Himself.

Jesus didn't leave an instruction manual, when he rose to heaven. He didn't write a bible, But he did leave the structure to make sure his truth prevailed and that Satan would not prevail in the end.
8 posted on 02/16/2010 10:31:46 PM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: GeronL

“Everything else is manmade”

Yes, religion is manmade. All religion is manmade. Jesus did not come to start a religion. He came to draw us to the Father. He died, was buried, rose and ascended into heaven (the Father’s presence) so that we too might live in the Father’s presence.

We have invented religion. It is the pagan thing to do. We have to make gods to worship - so much easier than worshipping the one true God. It was not just a Greek or Roman thing to do. The Children of Israel themselves were sidetracked by god-creations of their own making.

Religion with its manmade rules, do’s and dont’s, is also about control. It is about controlling people. God’s plan includes getting all the systems of men out of His way - those systems are Political, Economic, Religious. All will crumble and make way for the coming of the King and His Kingdom.


9 posted on 02/16/2010 10:37:12 PM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

“Do you really think Jesus would set up his church here on earth and then just let it run itself.”

You are correct, Jesus did not do that. Before He left, He said “I send you another Comforter”, and after He assended into the Father’s presence, He kept that promise, on the Day of Pentacost, when He sent the Holy Spirit to be the direct voice of God to each of us who are a part of the church, the holy catholic church, and the Holy Spirit is the One who oversees the direction for the Church. The church is not about Peter or any of the other Apostles, it is about those who worship in spirit and in truth. It is about us, not about hierarchy. Hierarchy is manmade, in all Christian religious communities.


10 posted on 02/16/2010 10:48:09 PM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
You are right, it is about us and our journey to heaven or hell. But we do need the hierarchy of the church to guide us in the truth. There is only one Holy Spirit and only one truth. Look at the 25,000 other denominations who believe they have the truth because they are following the spirit, it just makes you wonder what spirit it is and where does it come from. There is only one true God and God can not contradict Himself. It is not possible. We need to know what we believe is the truth otherwise there is no reason to believe.

The hierarchy will be judged the same as you and I on how they followed the responsibilities that have been ordained on them. I suspect only harsher, that is why we need to pray for our priests that they teach and remain faithful to the truth. Who else can give us the sacraments?

Don't turn away from the authority of the church, it is the only thing keeping us on the true path to God. If Satan can make you disbelieve your priest, your bishop and the pope, who else can we turn to in matters of faith? Satan would like nothing better. There are some bad priests out there who seem to turn our faith on its head, but they are not the church, they are men, that is why we must educate ourselves as to what the church says because the church is now and forever will be the truth of Jesus Christ. Satan will not prevail!
11 posted on 02/16/2010 11:28:04 PM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: Salvation; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

12 posted on 02/17/2010 12:57:10 AM PST by narses ("lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi")
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To: Salvation
Christ...instituted an obligatory hierarchical society for all.

Hmmmmmm, sounds like Jefferson and other Founders were right in saying Roman Catholicism was anti-democratic...

13 posted on 02/17/2010 9:35:09 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns
No, the Catholic Church is anti-egalitarian.

Speaking of the Founders, have you ever read the Federalist Papers? The authors were quite suspicious of democracy.

14 posted on 02/17/2010 9:38:19 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480

I’m well aware the Federalist Papers showed the Founders were against pure democracy, and opted for a representative form of government—a Republic—which includes essential democratic elements. Those elements are so basic and essential that in common usage today, people use the term “democracy” when they really mean “democratic republic.”

The fact remains that amidst sinful humans, “obligatory hiearchical society for all” smacks of monarchy, tyranny, and the abuse of power, which the Founders, and the Federalist Papers abhorred.


15 posted on 02/17/2010 9:45:36 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: Salvation
Act 14:23
in designating priests for the churches

Please explain what Acts 14:23 has to do with what is claimed.

The Greek, ekklesia, and the Latin, ecclesia, translates the Hebrew, qahal, meaning principally, assembly.

Terrific! Then Jesus didn't start a "church", right? He started a "way of life" by calling out of the population a group of people to ekklesia, i.e., assemble!

The Apostles took to themselves and exercised the power of ruling: The Apostles also understood that their powers were to be exercised hierarchically:

They did no such thing. Jesus never told them to "rule" over members of the "assembly". They were to be servants (diakonouns). Even Peter stated that the elders (presbuterous) of the group of believers were equal with him (see I Peter 5:1). Read I Timothy 3:1-13, it tells you of the offices members of the assembly should have. The "Catholic" church(?) doesn't follow Paul's directions very good; they have created offices and set rules that are not Scripturally indicated.

16 posted on 02/17/2010 10:41:42 AM PST by Ken4TA (The truth sometimes hurts - but is truth nonetheless!)
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To: Pyro7480

Whew! Antipapists are out in numbers today, huh?

A blessed Lent to you, my FRiend.


17 posted on 02/17/2010 1:09:07 PM PST by Bigg Red (Palin/Hunter 2012 -- Bolton their Secretary of State)
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To: Bigg Red

Thank you! :-)


18 posted on 02/17/2010 1:10:15 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

It’s not a business deal — the Holy Spirit is involved here. No one walked away.

Even Christ told the apostles that he would be with them always.

Where are you getting this “walked away” idea?


19 posted on 02/17/2010 4:56:42 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Christ at the same time instituted an obligatory hierarchical society for all people.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The Catholic Church is a cult.


20 posted on 02/17/2010 4:57:42 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: Bigg Red

*8Whew! Antipapists are out in numbers today, huh?**

I’m protected by the ashes on my forehead — LOL and joking, of course. They just remind me of my humanity and tendency to sin, and then the need to seek the Sacrament of Reconciliation.


21 posted on 02/17/2010 4:59:27 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
It’s not a business deal — the Holy Spirit is involved here. No one walked away.

Even Christ told the apostles that he would be with them always.

Where are you getting this “walked away” idea?


I was using it as an example of why the church has an authority or hierarchy, not that Jesus would walk away. Please read what I wrote. The church has been led by the Holy Spirit for 2000 years, but if we didn't have an authority the church would fall into any one of the other 25,000 denominations who claim the truth. Who would claim the Holy Spirit? Who would be right? God can not contradict Himself. Not all Christian churches can claim at once to be the one true church.

I am sorry if you didn't understand what I was trying to say, maybe I didn't explain my thoughts very well.
22 posted on 02/17/2010 6:47:34 PM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

“There is only one Holy Spirit and only one truth. Look at the 25,000 other denominations who believe they have the truth because they are following the spirit, it just makes you wonder what spirit it is and where does it come from.”

The Holy Spirit is omnipotent and omnipresent. He has The Truth. No man has The Truth. All men are fallible. All who make up church hierachy are men. In all church groups, denominations etc. There are NO exceptions. Jesus said, “My sheep know My voice”. I know His voice. The Holy Spirit confirms that the voice I hear is His voice. I trust the voice of my Lord and Savior. I trust the witness of the Holy Spirit. Nothing else is trustable.


23 posted on 02/17/2010 9:07:25 PM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

I think I owe YOU an apology. Agree with what you are saying about the authority. There’s a link in that series about authority, I believe.


24 posted on 02/17/2010 9:10:34 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
The Holy Spirit is omnipotent and omnipresent. He has The Truth. No man has The Truth. All men are fallible. All who make up church hierachy are men. In all church groups, denominations etc. There are NO exceptions. Jesus said, “My sheep know My voice”. I know His voice. The Holy Spirit confirms that the voice I hear is His voice. I trust the voice of my Lord and Savior. I trust the witness of the Holy Spirit. Nothing else is trustable.

What you say is true. You are probably like me and can fill stirred when we hear something that is against the teachings of Jesus, we know when something is not right. But there are many who are sheep and just follow any voice that sounds right. That is why there is a need for an authority, a place to turn for answers. 2000 years of prayer led by the Holy Spirit has guided the Church and its teachings, the doctrines are sound truth, not just me with my bible trying to make sense of it all.

So many Catholics are lost today, look at the election of Barack Obama. This should not have ever happened with Catholics following the true teachings of Jesus Christ. This is what I mean by some thinking they are following the spirit of Christ, but we know that spirit is a false one. The devil is doing a excellent job of pulling people away from the truth with his false spirit, mingling false and true teachings just enough to confuse people. But after he has turned everything in to turmoil and caused all of his confusion, we need some where to go to find out what is the truth on matters of faith. To sort out what is true or not. Left to ourselves we would be lost. Sure, the Holy Spirit would help us sort it out, but I know I can turn to the authority of Christ's teachings, the doctrines of faith and find the real truth.


25 posted on 02/18/2010 7:09:49 AM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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