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Real men find Church too girly
Times of London ^ | January 27, 2010 | Ruth Gledhill

Posted on 02/19/2010 7:13:39 PM PST by hiho hiho

Real men don't like going to church because they don't want to "sing love songs to a man", because the "vicar wears a dress", because they feel like "mongrels on parade at Crufts" and because they want to be waited on by women rather than queue for coffee after the service.

Instead of the usual flowers and statues of the Virgin Mary, they suggest, "How would it go down to decorate with swords, or pictures of knights, or flaming torches?"

"Maybe it's not 'politically correct', but men quite like the attention of women! They also like to be waited on - so long as they are not made to feel guilty. Instead of having to queue for coffee, why not ask some of the women to go round with trays of coffee and biscuits or chocky bars? Coupled with a charming smile, many men would find that very attractive!"

Then there are the hymns, or modern worship songs, themselves.

Quite apart from the sheer embarrassment of having to sing out loud when the tune might go too high or be in an unfamiliar key,

"Jesus, I am so in love with you," or "Beautiful one I love, beautiful one I adore," - many men wouldn't sing that to their wives, let alone another man, the charity advises.

Among the changes recommended by Christian Vision for Men, a member of the Evangelical Alliance, is to use the World Cup to boost falling congregations. The charity wants vicars to erect big screens above the pulpit during this summer’s World Cup in South Africa and even serve beer during games.

The charity, which also recommends subjects as "pornography" are discussed in church men's groups, has also launched two Christian-themed men’s magazines in a further bid to lock into male culture.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: evangelism; males
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(Had to be chopped up badly to fit excerpting rules -- read the entire article on the website.)

1 posted on 02/19/2010 7:13:39 PM PST by hiho hiho
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To: hiho hiho

"...and then there's that whole 'putting on a shirt' thing.'"
2 posted on 02/19/2010 7:17:50 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all. -- Texas Eagle)
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To: hiho hiho
Contrary to what this silly article suggests, men were more likely to be found in church when men were indeed men.

Maybe todays sissified men - those of us who have been emasculated - are just more self conscious about what they know they lack.

3 posted on 02/19/2010 7:18:55 PM PST by skeeter
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To: hiho hiho

I’d like church more if the priests didn’t talk like nursery school psychologists.


4 posted on 02/19/2010 7:19:47 PM PST by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: hiho hiho
Best book I've seen on this topic is "Why Men Hate Going to Church".

The church where I am a member incorporates some of the principles in the book, and we don't have a gender gap.

As a matter of fact, we have a men's meeting tomorrow morning at 730am. About 200 guys show up.

5 posted on 02/19/2010 7:20:13 PM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: hiho hiho

Maybe Hooters would work better.


6 posted on 02/19/2010 7:20:44 PM PST by Mercat (Horizontal Fracking)
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To: hiho hiho

Perhaps there is not enough reading/understanding of James.
James is very much an [exhortation to] action book.


7 posted on 02/19/2010 7:23:02 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: MarineBrat

I’d like Church more if the pews weren’t filled with self righteous do-gooders who are always looking down their hypocritical noses at everybody else.


8 posted on 02/19/2010 7:24:09 PM PST by csmusaret (Right wing extremists: Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Paine, and me.)
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To: csmusaret
self righteous do-gooders who are always looking down their hypocritical noses at everybody else.

That's what you yourself are doing in this very post.

9 posted on 02/19/2010 7:26:24 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: hiho hiho

I call BS!

(Bible Study)

The realest men I know , Love Jesus.


10 posted on 02/19/2010 7:26:54 PM PST by right way right
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To: B-Chan

I am not doing it in Church.


11 posted on 02/19/2010 7:27:15 PM PST by csmusaret (Right wing extremists: Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Paine, and me.)
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To: csmusaret

There’s always room for one more.


12 posted on 02/19/2010 7:27:17 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: skeeter

True committed Christan men who love the Lord are not described here...


13 posted on 02/19/2010 7:27:47 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: Marysecretary

I agree, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Our church is full of men. Wonderful Godly men.


14 posted on 02/19/2010 7:30:27 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Marysecretary

Yes Ma’am, churches don’t need “gimmicks.”

Preaching from the bible without putting the Spin Of The Day on it is quite sufficient.


15 posted on 02/19/2010 7:31:15 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: csmusaret
I’d like Church more if the pews weren’t filled with self righteous do-gooders who are always looking down their hypocritical noses at everybody else.

Really, you should go, one more hypocrite isn't going to matter.

16 posted on 02/19/2010 7:31:37 PM PST by upsdriver
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To: csmusaret

Ooh right, that makes it so much less holier than thou hypocritical. Carry on then!


17 posted on 02/19/2010 7:31:42 PM PST by Valpal1 ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.")
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To: hiho hiho

It depends.

This is true about the soft, feminised evangelical churches where all they do it sway to the beat of the drum set while singing love songs to their boyfriend named Jesus.

However, fundamental churches, which eschew that sort of nonsense, don’t seem to have trouble finding real men to fill the pews.


18 posted on 02/19/2010 7:31:46 PM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (We bury Democrats face down so that when they scratch, they get closer to home.)
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To: csmusaret

So self-confessed murderers, cheats, perverts and drunks would be the preferred occupants of those seats? Would you like that better. Or does everybody have to be perfect like you?

No offense...I just get tired of the typical stereotyping of Christians. I guess you are just a typical liberal. Your comment is right out of their book.


19 posted on 02/19/2010 7:32:24 PM PST by Jerry Attrick
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To: hiho hiho

Good grief. Have any of these people listened to contemporary Christian music, most of which is written and sung by fathers? Fatherhood is the most heroic and brave thing a man can ever do. As for athletics and masculinity, at least 3 of the top pro football QB prospects are Christians: Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, and Tim Tebow, as is future Hall of Famer QB Kurt Warner. Read about what Paul went through. Christians are macho. They are courageous. They are “more than conquerors.”


20 posted on 02/19/2010 7:32:48 PM PST by hellbender
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To: hiho hiho

Real men find the Times of London too girly to read.


21 posted on 02/19/2010 7:33:06 PM PST by Houghton M.
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To: hiho hiho
"Maybe it's not 'politically correct', but men quite like the attention of women! They also like to be waited on - so long as they are not made to feel guilty. Instead of having to queue for coffee, why not ask some of the women to go round with trays of coffee and biscuits or chocky bars? Coupled with a charming smile, many men would find that very attractive!"

Not a bad idea, actually. Make this gender neutral and you have an implementation of "serve one another."

22 posted on 02/19/2010 7:33:53 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: hiho hiho

Quit it for drag racing 64 years ago!!!


23 posted on 02/19/2010 7:34:43 PM PST by dalereed
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To: csmusaret
I’d like Church more if the pews weren’t filled with self righteous do-gooders who are always looking down their hypocritical noses at everybody else.

I'd pay more attention to people who complain about church if these folks weren't so often self-righteous no-gooders who want to use their complaints as an excuse.

24 posted on 02/19/2010 7:35:00 PM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (We bury Democrats face down so that when they scratch, they get closer to home.)
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To: hiho hiho

REAL men love Jesus.


25 posted on 02/19/2010 7:35:52 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Truth - Reality through the eyes of God.)
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To: skeeter

Jesus was the manliest of men. Willingly dying for others without complaint.


26 posted on 02/19/2010 7:38:36 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Truth - Reality through the eyes of God.)
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To: dalereed

So go to a Seventh Day Adventist church. They have services on Saturday.


27 posted on 02/19/2010 7:39:23 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: csmusaret

So what?


28 posted on 02/19/2010 7:40:01 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Jerry Attrick

If Jesus hadn’t saved us from ourselves we would be among the murderers, cheats, perverts and drunks. We are those people.


29 posted on 02/19/2010 7:40:10 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: hiho hiho

This one’s kind of masculine, and sung to a deep Russian-sounding tune:

God of our fathers, whose almighty hand
Leads forth in beauty all the starry band
Of shining worlds in splendor through the skies
Our grateful songs before Thy throne arise.

Thy love divine hath led us in the past,
In this free land by Thee our lot is cast,
Be Thou our Ruler, Guardian, Guide and Stay,
Thy Word our law, Thy paths our chosen way.

From war’s alarms, from deadly pestilence,
Be Thy strong arm our ever sure defense;
Thy true religion in our hearts increase,
Thy bounteous goodness nourish us in peace.

Refresh Thy people on their toilsome way,
Lead us from night to never ending day;
Fill all our lives with love and grace divine,
And glory, laud, and praise be ever Thine.


30 posted on 02/19/2010 7:40:38 PM PST by agrarianlady
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To: hiho hiho
Instead of the usual flowers and statues of the Virgin Mary, they suggest, "How would it go down to decorate with swords, or pictures of knights, or flaming torches?"

WTF do they think the Crusades were all about?


31 posted on 02/19/2010 7:40:40 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Something is seriously wrong when the .gov plans to treat citizens worse than they treat terrorists)
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To: hiho hiho
Men who don't attend church aren't hungry for gimmicks; they're hungry for Jesus. Serve living water and the bread of life and the hungry will come.
32 posted on 02/19/2010 7:40:50 PM PST by FourPeas ([F]or hostility is a relation and an enemy is not a total stranger. C.S. Lewis, Perelandra)
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To: hiho hiho

Swords and flaming torches sounds good to me.

Maybe we could have a pistol shooting range in the basement too.


33 posted on 02/19/2010 7:41:16 PM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... www.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: hiho hiho

Hmm, I wonder whether that kind of hymnography in part accounts for the largely male convert population we Orthodox have on this side of the pond.

I mean our hymns to Jesus are things like

“When Thou, O Lord, wast baptized in the Jordan, worship of the Trinity was made manifest, for the voice of the Father bore witness to Thee, calling Thee His beloved Son, and the Spirit in the Likeness of a dove confirmed the truth of His word. O Christ our God, who has appeared and enlightened the world, glory to Thee.”

for Theophany or

“He who clothes Himself with light as with a garment, stood naked at the judgement. On His cheek He receives blows from the hands which He had formed. The lawless multitude nailed to the Cross the Lord of Glory.”

one of many on Great and Holy Friday or

“When Thou didst submit Thyself unto Death, O Thou Deathless and Immortal One, Thou didst destroy Hell with Thy godly power. And when Thou didst raise the dead from beneath the earth, all the powers of heaven did cry aloud unto Thee, O Christ Thou giver of life, glory to Thee!”

one of the eight that comes around every eight Sundays.

Actually the only Orthodox hymn that comes at all close to a smushy “I love Jesus” hymn that I can think of is the standard troparion for a virgin martyr, which puts the words into the voice of the martyr, “Thee, O my Bridegroom, do I love, and seeking Thee I now contest, in baptism I have been crucified and buried with Thee, and now I suffer for Thy sake, that I may reign with Thee. I die for Thee so that I may live with Thee. As an unblemished sacrifice do Thou receive me, who in love sacrifice myself to Thee.”


34 posted on 02/19/2010 7:45:04 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: hiho hiho

wow! are they behind the times or what?


35 posted on 02/19/2010 7:45:50 PM PST by texmexis best
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To: HiTech RedNeck

those people are whacko!

I’ve never missed church and haven’t been in one more than a dozen times since and then only to work on them under contract or for a few weddings.

In the last 30 years every wedding that we have been to hasn’t been in a church and neither of our families believe in funerals.


36 posted on 02/19/2010 7:46:43 PM PST by dalereed
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To: csmusaret

You should try a Russian Synod Orthodox parish: they won’t have any pews at all, and it’s hard to look down your nose at anyone when you’re doing prostrations and metanias, since your nose tends to point at the floor, rather than your fellow man.


37 posted on 02/19/2010 7:49:32 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: smokingfrog

“Maybe we could have a pistol shooting range in the basement too.”

I take my Bible study shooting about once a month.

Might be a good idea.


38 posted on 02/19/2010 7:50:41 PM PST by texmexis best
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To: csmusaret
I’d like Church more if the pews weren’t filled with self righteous do-gooders who are always looking down their hypocritical noses at everybody else.

We're all sinners. Sime, like me, have been worse than others.

You ought to come to our Bible study class. I think you'd like iut.

Church is not a gathering place for the perfect, it's a hospital for sinners, and we all need the hospital.

39 posted on 02/19/2010 7:53:38 PM PST by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: dalereed

Can always use one more.


40 posted on 02/19/2010 7:56:33 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: csmusaret

Sounds kind of self righteous. ;)


41 posted on 02/19/2010 8:01:42 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: Texas Eagle

Onslow!


42 posted on 02/19/2010 8:04:53 PM PST by La Lydia
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To: csmusaret
As a Christian myself I kind of agree. It seems it has turned more into a weekly brainwashing session more than learning about God.

I am still considering attending a local non-denominational church. You should see if any of those are around. The preacher doesn't have a scripted message from a theologian school or from Rome.
43 posted on 02/19/2010 8:05:01 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: La Lydia
Heh, heh.

Funny show.

44 posted on 02/19/2010 8:06:19 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all. -- Texas Eagle)
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To: brytlea

OURS, TOO, AND THEY AREN’T ASHAMED TO SING ABOUT HIM EITHER.


45 posted on 02/19/2010 8:08:04 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: hiho hiho; Centurion2000; smokingfrog

Time to brink the Archangel Michael to their attention. Plenty of masculinity to go around there.


46 posted on 02/19/2010 8:08:39 PM PST by La Lydia
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To: hiho hiho

This is interesting because the same has happened in Jewish congregations. First, reform synagogues allowed women to participate fully in Torah reading. Then they could even become the rabbis. They are usually a majority of the non-Orthodox temple committees too. The whole thing becomes like a PTA. Men find less and less for them there. It becomes wholly woman-centric. (To the point of taking the masculine “He” away from the Bible in the most liberal prayer books!!!)

As a mom of sons, I find it sad.


47 posted on 02/19/2010 8:18:01 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: hiho hiho

Yeah, I’m gonna suffer hell because I think appreciating my savior is girly.


48 posted on 02/19/2010 8:19:28 PM PST by The Future 2012 (Would the good people like a reply?)
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To: agrarianlady

The psalms are what my church sings. Almost all of them are masculine, because most were written by men.


49 posted on 02/19/2010 8:24:21 PM PST by The Future 2012 (Would the good people like a reply?)
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To: hiho hiho
Real men don't like going to church because they don't want to "sing love songs to a man", because the "vicar wears a dress", because they feel like "mongrels on parade at Crufts"

Yup.

and because they want to be waited on by women rather than queue for coffee after the service.

Hunh? Is that a Brit thing? Doesn't resonate with me at all.

they suggest, "How would it go down to decorate with swords, or pictures of knights, or flaming torches?"

Equally as clueless as sissifying the service.

50 posted on 02/19/2010 8:28:03 PM PST by Lee N. Field (Come, behold the works of the LORD, how he has brought desolations on the earth.)
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