Skip to comments.REVERENCE FOR THE BIBLE -Mormon- (OPEN)
Posted on 02/23/2010 9:54:36 AM PST by greyfoxx39
The truth is that the Church reveres the Bible as a sacred volume of scripture. Latter-day Saints cherish its teachings and engage in a lifelong study of its divine wisdom. Moreover, during worship and instruction services the Bible and its teachings are pondered and discussed. To increase biblical understanding, the Church provides extensive resources and tools: lesson manuals, cross-reference materials, Bible maps, a Bible dictionary, and articles in various magazines. Thus, the Bible is much more than simply a collection of antiquated writings and revelations that have only scant relevance to the modern world. On the contrary, it stands in the center of the Latter-day Saints spiritual lives.
In a recent sermon, Church apostle Elder M. Russell Ballard characterized the Bible as the bedrock of all Christianity and one of the pillars of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, he described the Bible as a miracle: It is a miracle that the Bibles 4,000 years of sacred and secular history were recorded and preserved by the prophets, apostles, and inspired churchmen. It is a miracle that the Bible literally contains within its pages the converting, healing Spirit of Christ, which has turned mens hearts for centuries, leading them to pray, to choose right paths, and to search to find their Savior. It instills real, tangible power in the lives of Latter-day Saints and offers practical solutions and spiritual guidance that inspire them to overcome challenges and trials.
There is a broad range of approaches within the vast mosaic of biblical interpretation. For example, biblical inerrancy maintains that the Bible is without error and contradiction; biblical infallibility holds that the Bible is free from errors regarding faith and practice but not necessarily science or history; biblical literalism requires a literal interpretation of events and teachings in the Bible and generally discounts allegory and metaphor; and the Bible as literature educational approach extols the literary qualities of the Bible but disregards its miraculous elements.
The Church does not strictly subscribe to any of these interpretive approaches. Rather, in the words of Joseph Smith, it regards the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly (8th Article of Faith). Accordingly, Church members believe that during the centuries-long process in which fallible human beings compiled, translated and transcribed the Bible, various errors entered the text. However, this does not override the overwhelming predominance of truth within the Bible. As Elder Ballard noted, Without the Bible, we would not know of His Church then, nor would we have the fullness of His gospel now. Part of that fullness is the Bibles seminal instruction that God reveals Himself to those who seek Him. The Bible is a living invitation to know personally the sacred revelatory experience that fills its pages.
The scriptures, or standard works, of the Latter-day Saints comprise the Old Testament and New Testament of the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. According to Elder Ballard, these scriptures constitute a great, indivisible whole of Gods revealed word that help humankind understand the past, present and future. The great gospel plan contained in these works does not apply to one generation or one people alone but to all of Gods children throughout all time. Thus, in the words of Elder Ballard, those who think that one part is more important or more true than the other parts are missing some of the beauty and completeness of the canon of ancient scripture.
During previous periods of time when God organized His church, He added new revelations to pre-existing scripture, forming a connection between believers of the present and believers of the past. For example, the Old Testament book of Isaiah gives shape and meaning to the Gospel of Matthew. The two revelations need not be viewed as rivals competing with each other: the existence of one does not negate the relevance or legitimacy of the other. This ongoing revelation of scripture gives uniformity and continuity to an unfolding gospel narrative and unites people under one standard of doctrine.
Of all the standard works, the Bible remains the best source for an intimate understanding of the character and personality of Jesus Christ during His mortal mission. While the Old Testament offers a prophetic foretelling of that mission, the New Testament provides an unmatched account of the events, experiences, teachings and personal interactions of Christ. The Book of Mormon strengthens and reinforces His teachings through additional witnesses and provides moving accounts of the personal experiences many individuals had with Him. According to Elder Ballard, The Book of Mormon does not dilute nor diminish nor de-emphasize the Bible. On the contrary, it expands, extends, and exalts it.
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The truth is that the Church reveres the Bible as a sacred volume of scripture.
Peoople who claim to believe the bible “if it is translated correctly’ or words to that effect...
are not people who “reverence” the Bible for being the Word of God...
So that phase “reveres the Bible as a sacred volume of scripture”
means something else...
“a sacred volume of scripture” ???
What does that mean ???
Only “a sacred volume of scripture” ???
as in one of several ???
equal to what other “sacred volume of scripture” or scriptures ???
The koran ??? What ???
What mormons sway and write can mean something totally different that n what a Chrsitian may think it means...
The Bible is the only “sacred” book for Christians...
The ONLY Word of God...
Mormonism is not Christianity...
Thus, the Bible is much more than simply a collection of antiquated writings and revelations that have only scant relevance to the modern world. On the contrary, it stands in the center of the Latter-day Saints spiritual lives.
This statement is just a lie, plain and simple.
And JSjr re-translated(?) the NT to remove errors????
Exactly how do you claim reverence for a book you a;so claim is bordering on fiction due to erroneous context ???
At the time of these books, the “Old World” had no knowledge that there were, on the other side of the world, vast continents that became known as “The NEW World.”
But were these lands and their people unknown to God?
Were not these people also God's children?
If so, would He not also communicate to them?
That's all the Book of Mormon purports to be - a second witness to God and to Jesus - to the peoples of North, Central and North America...just as the Bible is of the “Old World.”
It really is that simple.
The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints revere both the Bible and the Book of Mormon as twin pillars of God's communications to His children.
It is unknown to anyone with a brain.
Ah the old your-brains-all-belong-to-us rule...
When the profit speaks, the thinking has been done...
This is simply not true. You can not reaver something you say is not translated correctly.
The "Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy" was produced at an international Summit Conference of evangelical leaders, held at the Hyatt Regency O'Hare in Chicago in the fall of 1978. This congress was sponsored by the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy. The Chicago Statement was signed by nearly 300 noted evangelical scholars, including James Boice, Norman L. Geisler, John Gerstner, Carl F. H. Henry, Kenneth Kantzer, Harold Lindsell, John Warwick Montgomery, Roger Nicole, J. I. Packer, Robert Preus, Earl Radmacher, Francis Schaeffer, R. C. Sproul, and John Wenham.
The ICBI disbanded in 1988 after producing three major statements: one on biblical inerrancy in 1978, one on biblical hermeneutics in 1982, and one on biblical application in 1986. The following text, containing the "Preface" by the ICBI draft committee, plus the "Short Statement," "Articles of Affirmation and Denial," and an accompanying "Exposition," was published in toto by Carl F. H. Henry in God, Revelation And Authority, vol. 4 (Waco, Tx.: Word Books, 1979), on pp. 211-219. The nineteen Articles of Affirmation and Denial, with a brief introduction, also appear in A General Introduction to the Bible, by Norman L. Geisler and William E. Nix (Chicago: Moody Press, rev. 1986), at pp. 181-185. An official commentary on these articles was written by R. C. Sproul in Explaining Inerrancy: A Commentary (Oakland, Calif.: ICBI, 1980), and Norman Geisler edited the major addresses from the 1978 conference, in Inerrancy (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1980).
Clarification of some of the language used in this Statement may be found in the 1982 Chicago Statement on Biblical Hermeneutics [ http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago2.html ]
The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy
The authority of Scripture is a key issue for the Christian church in this and every age. Those who profess faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior are called to show the reality of their discipleship by humbly and faithfully obeying God's written Word. To stray from Scripture in faith or conduct is disloyalty to our Master. Recognition of the total truth and trustworthiness of Holy Scripture is essential to a full grasp and adequate confession of its authority.
The following Statement affirms this inerrancy of Scripture afresh, making clear our understanding of it and warning against its denial. We are persuaded that to deny it is to set aside the witness of Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit and to refuse that submission to the claims of God's own Word which marks true Christian faith. We see it as our timely duty to make this affirmation in the face of current lapses from the truth of inerrancy among our fellow Christians and misunderstandings of this doctrine in the world at large.
This Statement consists of three parts: a Summary Statement, Articles of Affirmation and Denial, and an accompanying Exposition. It has been prepared in the course of a three-day consultation in Chicago. Those who have signed the Summary Statement and the Articles wish to affirm their own conviction as to the inerrancy of Scripture and to encourage and challenge one another and all Christians to growing appreciation and understanding of this doctrine. We acknowledge the limitations of a document prepared in a brief, intensive conference and do not propose that this Statement be given creedal weight. Yet we rejoice in the deepening of our own convictions through our discussions together, and we pray that the Statement we have signed may be used to the glory of our God toward a new reformation of the Church in its faith, life, and mission.
We offer this Statement in a spirit, not of contention, but of humility and love, which we purpose by God's grace to maintain in any future dialogue arising out of what we have said. We gladly acknowledge that many who deny the inerrancy of Scripture do not display the consequences of this denial in the rest of their belief and behavior, and we are conscious that we who confess this doctrine often deny it in life by failing to bring our thoughts and deeds, our traditions and habits, into true subjection to the divine Word.
We invite response to this statement from any who see reason to amend its affirmations about Scripture by the light of Scripture itself, under whose infallible authority we stand as we speak. We claim no personal infallibility for the witness we bear, and for any help which enables us to strengthen this testimony to God's Word we shall be grateful.
The Draft Committee
A Short Statement
1. God, who is Himself Truth and speaks truth only, has inspired Holy Scripture in order thereby to reveal Himself to lost mankind through Jesus Christ as Creator and Lord, Redeemer and Judge. Holy Scripture is God's witness to Himself.
2. Holy Scripture, being God's own Word, written by men prepared and superintended by His Spirit, is of infallible divine authority in all matters upon which it touches: it is to be believed, as God's instruction, in all that it affirms: obeyed, as God's command, in all that it requires; embraced, as God's pledge, in all that it promises.
3. The Holy Spirit, Scripture's divine Author, both authenticates it to us by His inward witness and opens our minds to understand its meaning.
4. Being wholly and verbally God-given, Scripture is without error or fault in all its teaching, no less in what it states about God's acts in creation, about the events of world history, and about its own literary origins under God, than in its witness to God's saving grace in individual lives.
5. The authority of Scripture is inescapably impaired if this total divine inerrancy is in any way limited or disregarded, or made relative to a view of truth contrary to the Bible's own; and such lapses bring serious loss to both the individual and the Church.
Articles of Affirmation and Denial
-- Article I.
WE AFFIRM that the Holy Scriptures are to be received as the authoritative Word of God.
WE DENY that the Scriptures receive their authority from the Church, tradition, or any other human source.
-- Article II.
WE AFFIRM that the Scriptures are the supreme written norm by which God binds the conscience, and that the authority of the Church is subordinate to that of Scripture.
WE DENY that Church creeds, councils, or declarations have authority greater than or equal to the authority of the Bible.
-- Article III.
WE AFFIRM that the written Word in its entirety is revelation given by God.
WE DENY that the Bible is merely a witness to revelation, or only becomes revelation in encounter, or depends on the responses of men for its validity.
-- Article IV.
WE AFFIRM that God who made mankind in His image has used language as a means of revelation.
WE DENY that human language is so limited by our creatureliness that it is rendered inadequate as a vehicle for divine revelation. We further deny that the corruption of human culture and language through sin has thwarted God's work of inspiration.
-- Article V.
WE AFFIRM that God's revelation within the Holy Scriptures was progressive.
WE DENY that later revelation, which may fulfill earlier revelation, ever corrects or contradicts it. We further deny that any normative revelation has been given since the completion of the New Testament writings.
-- Article VI.
WE AFFIRM that the whole of Scripture and all its parts, down to the very words of the original, were given by divine inspiration.
WE DENY that the inspiration of Scripture can rightly be affirmed of the whole without the parts, or of some parts but not the whole.
-- Article VII.
WE AFFIRM that inspiration was the work in which God by His Spirit, through human writers, gave us His Word. The origin of Scripture is divine. The mode of divine inspiration remains largely a mystery to us.
WE DENY that inspiration can be reduced to human insight, or to heightened states of consciousness of any kind.
-- Article VIII.
WE AFFIRM that God in His work of inspiration utilized the distinctive personalities and literary styles of the writers whom He had chosen and prepared.
WE DENY that God, in causing these writers to use the very words that He chose, overrode their personalities.
-- Article IX.
WE AFFIRM that inspiration, though not conferring omniscience, guaranteed true and trustworthy utterance on all matters of which the Biblical authors were moved to speak and write.
WE DENY that the finitude or fallenness of these writers, by necessity or otherwise, introduced distortion or falsehood into God's Word.
-- Article X.
WE AFFIRM that inspiration, strictly speaking, applies only to the autographic text of Scripture, which in the providence of God can be ascertained from available manuscripts with great accuracy. We further affirm that copies and translations of Scripture are the Word of God to the extent that they faithfully represent the original.
WE DENY that any essential element of the Christian faith is affected by the absence of the autographs. We further deny that this absence renders the assertion of Biblical inerrancy invalid or irrelevant.
-- Article XI.
WE AFFIRM that Scripture, having been given by divine inspiration, is infallible, so that, far from misleading us, it is true and reliable in all the matters it addresses.
WE DENY that it is possible for the Bible to be at the same time infallible and errant in its assertions. Infallibility and inerrancy may be distinguished, but not separated.
-- Article XII.
WE AFFIRM that Scripture in its entirety is inerrant, being free from all falsehood, fraud, or deceit.
WE DENY that Biblical infallibility and inerrancy are limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes, exclusive of assertions in the fields of history and science. We further deny that scientific hypotheses about earth history may properly be used to overturn the teaching of Scripture on creation and the flood.
-- Article XIII.
WE AFFIRM the propriety of using inerrancy as a theological term with reference to the complete truthfulness of Scripture.
WE DENY that it is proper to evaluate Scripture according to standards of truth and error that are alien to its usage or purpose. We further deny that inerrancy is negated by Biblical phenomena such as a lack of modern technical precision, irregularities of grammar or spelling, observational descriptions of nature, the reporting of falsehoods, the use of hyperbole and round numbers, the topical arrangement of material, variant selections of material in parallel accounts, or the use of free citations.
-- Article XIV.
WE AFFIRM the unity and internal consistency of Scripture.
WE DENY that alleged errors and discrepancies that have not yet been resolved vitiate the truth claims of the Bible.
-- Article XV.
WE AFFIRM that the doctrine of inerrancy is grounded in the teaching of the Bible about inspiration.
WE DENY that Jesus' teaching about Scripture may be dismissed by appeals to accommodation or to any natural limitation of His humanity.
-- Article XVI.
WE AFFIRM that the doctrine of inerrancy has been integral to the Church's faith throughout its history.
WE DENY that inerrancy is a doctrine invented by scholastic Protestantism, or is a reactionary position postulated in response to negative higher criticism.
-- Article XVII.
WE AFFIRM that the Holy Spirit bears witness to the Scriptures, assuring believers of the truthfulness of God's written Word.
WE DENY that this witness of the Holy Spirit operates in isolation from or against Scripture.
-- Article XVIII.
WE AFFIRM that the text of Scripture is to be interpreted by grammatico-historical exegesis, taking account of its literary forms and devices, and that Scripture is to interpret Scripture.
WE DENY the legitimacy of any treatment of the text or quest for sources lying behind it that leads to relativizing, dehistoricizing, or discounting its teaching, or rejecting its claims to authorship.
-- Article XIX.
WE AFFIRM that a confession of the full authority, infallibility, and inerrancy of Scripture is vital to a sound understanding of the whole of the Christian faith. We further affirm that such confession should lead to increasing conformity to the image of Christ.
WE DENY that such confession is necessary for salvation. However, we further deny that inerrancy can be rejected without grave consequences, both to the individual and to the Church.
===== ===== ===== ===== =====
Our understanding of the doctrine of inerrancy must be set in the context of the broader teachings of the Scripture concerning itself. This exposition gives an account of the outline of doctrine from which our summary statement and articles are drawn.
Creation, Revelation and Inspiration
The Triune God, who formed all things by his creative utterances and governs all things by His Word of decree, made mankind in His own image for a life of communion with Himself, on the model of the eternal fellowship of loving communication within the Godhead. As God's image-bearer, man was to hear God's Word addressed to him and to respond in the joy of adoring obedience. Over and above God's self-disclosure in the created order and the sequence of events within it, human beings from Adam on have received verbal messages from Him, either directly, as stated in Scripture, or indirectly in the form of part or all of Scripture itself.
When Adam fell, the Creator did not abandon mankind to final judgment but promised salvation and began to reveal Himself as Redeemer in a sequence of historical events centering on Abraham's family and culminating in the life, death, resurrection, present heavenly ministry, and promised return of Jesus Christ. Within this frame God has from time to time spoken specific words of judgment and mercy, promise and command, to sinful human beings so drawing them into a covenant relation of mutual commitment between Him and them in which He blesses them with gifts of grace and they bless Him in responsive adoration. Moses, whom God used as mediator to carry His words to His people at the time of the Exodus, stands at the head of a long line of prophets in whose mouths and writings God put His words for delivery to Israel. God's purpose in this succession of messages was to maintain His covenant by causing His people to know His Namethat is, His natureand His will both of precept and purpose in the present and for the future. This line of prophetic spokesmen from God came to completion in Jesus Christ, God's incarnate Word, who was Himself a prophetmore than a prophet, but not lessand in the apostles and prophets of the first Christian generation. When God's final and climactic message, His word to the world concerning Jesus Christ, had been spoken and elucidated by those in the apostolic circle, the sequence of revealed messages ceased. Henceforth the Church was to live and know God by what He had already said, and said for all time.
At Sinai God wrote the terms of His covenant on tables of stone, as His enduring witness and for lasting accessibility, and throughout the period of prophetic and apostolic revelation He prompted men to write the messages given to and through them, along with celebratory records of His dealings with His people, plus moral reflections on covenant life and forms of praise and prayer for covenant mercy. The theological reality of inspiration in the producing of Biblical documents corresponds to that of spoken prophecies: although the human writers' personalities were expressed in what they wrote, the words were divinely constituted. Thus, what Scripture says, God says; its authority is His authority, for He is its ultimate Author, having given it through the minds and words of chosen and prepared men who in freedom and faithfulness "spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit" (1 Pet. 1:21). Holy Scripture must be acknowledged as the Word of God by virtue of its divine origin.
Authority: Christ and the Bible
Jesus Christ, the Son of God who is the Word made flesh, our Prophet, Priest, and King, is the ultimate Mediator of God's communication to man, as He is of all God's gifts of grace. The revelation He gave was more than verbal; He revealed the Father by His presence and His deeds as well. Yet His words were crucially important; for He was God, He spoke from the Father, and His words will judge all men at the last day.
As the prophesied Messiah, Jesus Christ is the central theme of Scripture. The Old Testament looked ahead to Him; the New Testament looks back to His first coming and on to His second. Canonical Scripture is the divinely inspired and therefore normative witness to Christ. No hermeneutic, therefore, of which the historical Christ is not the focal point is acceptable. Holy Scripture must be treated as what it essentially isthe witness of the Father to the Incarnate Son.
It appears that the Old Testament canon had been fixed by the time of Jesus. The New Testament canon is likewise now closed inasmuch as no new apostolic witness to the historical Christ can now be borne. No new revelation (as distinct from Spirit-given understanding of existing revelation) will be given until Christ comes again. The canon was created in principle by divine inspiration. The Church's part was to discern the canon which God had created, not to devise one of its own.
The word canon, signifying a rule or standard, is a pointer to authority, which means the right to rule and control. Authority in Christianity belongs to God in His revelation, which means, on the one hand, Jesus Christ, the living Word, and, on the other hand, Holy Scripture, the written Word. But the authority of Christ and that of Scripture are one. As our Prophet, Christ testified that Scripture cannot be broken. As our Priest and King, He devoted His earthly life to fulfilling the law and the prophets, even dying in obedience to the words of Messianic prophecy. Thus, as He saw Scripture attesting Him and His authority, so by His own submission to Scripture He attested its authority. As He bowed to His Father's instruction given in His Bible (our Old Testament), so He requires His disciples to donot, however, in isolation but in conjunction with the apostolic witness to Himself which He undertook to inspire by His gift of the Holy Spirit. So Christians show themselves faithful servants of their Lord by bowing to the divine instruction given in the prophetic and apostolic writings which together make up our Bible.
By authenticating each other's authority, Christ and Scripture coalesce into a single fount of authority. The Biblically-interpreted Christ and the Christ-centered, Christ-proclaiming Bible are from this standpoint one. As from the fact of inspiration we infer that what Scripture says, God says, so from the revealed relation between Jesus Christ and Scripture we may equally declare that what Scripture says, Christ says.
Infallibility, Inerrancy, Interpretation
Holy Scripture, as the inspired Word of God witnessing authoritatively to Jesus Christ, may properly be called infallible and inerrant. These negative terms have a special value, for they explicitly safeguard crucial positive truths.
lnfallible signifies the quality of neither misleading nor being misled and so safeguards in categorical terms the truth that Holy Scripture is a sure, safe, and reliable rule and guide in all matters.
Similarly, inerrant signifies the quality of being free from all falsehood or mistake and so safeguards the truth that Holy Scripture is entirely true and trustworthy in all its assertions.
We affirm that canonical Scripture should always be interpreted on the basis that it is infallible and inerrant. However, in determining what the God-taught writer is asserting in each passage, we must pay the most careful attention to its claims and character as a human production. In inspiration, God utilized the culture and conventions of His penman's milieu, a milieu that God controls in His sovereign providence; it is misinterpretation to imagine otherwise.
So history must be treated as history, poetry as poetry, hyperbole and metaphor as hyperbole and metaphor, generalization and approximation as what they are, and so forth. Differences between literary conventions in Bible times and in ours must also be observed: since, for instance, non-chronological narration and imprecise citation were conventional and acceptable and violated no expectations in those days, we must not regard these things as faults when we find them in Bible writers. When total precision of a particular kind was not expected nor aimed at, it is no error not to have achieved it. Scripture is inerrant, not in the sense of being absolutely precise by modern standards, but in the sense of making good its claims and achieving that measure of focused truth at which its authors aimed.
The truthfulness of Scripture is not negated by the appearance in it of irregularities of grammar or spelling, phenomenal descriptions of nature, reports of false statements (e.g., the lies of Satan), or seeming discrepancies between one passage and another. It is not right to set the so-called "phenomena" of Scripture against the teaching of Scripture about itself. Apparent inconsistencies should not be ignored. Solution of them, where this can be convincingly achieved, will encourage our faith, and where for the present no convincing solution is at hand we shall significantly honor God by trusting His assurance that His Word is true, despite these appearances, and by maintaining our confidence that one day they will be seen to have been illusions.
Inasmuch as all Scripture is the product of a single divine mind, interpretation must stay within the bounds of the analogy of Scripture and eschew hypotheses that would correct one Biblical passage by another, whether in the name of progressive revelation or of the imperfect enlightenment of the inspired writer's mind.
Although Holy Scripture is nowhere culture-bound in the sense that its teaching lacks universal validity, it is sometimes culturally conditioned by the customs and conventional views of a particular period, so that the application of its principles today calls for a different sort of action.
Skepticism and Criticism
Since the Renaissance, and more particularly since the Enlightenment, world-views have been developed which involve skepticism about basic Christian tenets. Such are the agnosticism which denies that God is knowable, the rationalism which denies that He is incomprehensible, the idealism which denies that He is transcendent, and the existentialism which denies rationality in His relationships with us. When these un- and anti-biblical principles seep into men's theologies at [a] presuppositional level, as today they frequently do, faithful interpretation of Holy Scripture becomes impossible.
Transmission and Translation
Since God has nowhere promised an inerrant transmission of Scripture, it is necessary to affirm that only the autographic text of the original documents was inspired and to maintain the need of textual criticism as a means of detecting any slips that may have crept into the text in the course of its transmission. The verdict of this science, however, is that the Hebrew and Greek text appear to be amazingly well preserved, so that we are amply justified in affirming, with the Westminster Confession, a singular providence of God in this matter and in declaring that the authority of Scripture is in no way jeopardized by the fact that the copies we possess are not entirely error-free.
Similarly, no translation is or can be perfect, and all translations are an additional step away from the autographa. Yet the verdict of linguistic science is that English-speaking Christians, at least, are exceedingly well served in these days with a host of excellent translations and have no cause for hesitating to conclude that the true Word of God is within their reach. Indeed, in view of the frequent repetition in Scripture of the main matters with which it deals and also of the Holy Spirit's constant witness to and through the Word, no serious translation of Holy Scripture will so destroy its meaning as to render it unable to make its reader "wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:15).
Inerrancy and Authority
In our affirmation of the authority of Scripture as involving its total truth, we are consciously standing with Christ and His apostles, indeed with the whole Bible and with the main stream of Church history from the first days until very recently. We are concerned at the casual, inadvertent, and seemingly thoughtless way in which a belief of such far-reaching importance has been given up by so many in our day.
We are conscious too that great and grave confusion results from ceasing to maintain the total truth of the Bible whose authority one professes to acknowledge. The result of taking this step is that the Bible which God gave loses its authority, and what has authority instead is a Bible reduced in content according to the demands of one's critical reasonings and in principle reducible still further once one has started. This means that at bottom independent reason now has authority, as opposed to Scriptural teaching. If this is not seen and if for the time being basic evangelical doctrines are still held, persons denying the full truth of Scripture may claim an evangelical identity while methodologically they have moved away from the evangelical principle of knowledge to an unstable subjectivism, and will find it hard not to move further.
We affirm that what Scripture says, God says. May He be glorified. Amen and Amen.
And therein lies the crux of the problem. (No pun intended)
Joseph Smith has been proven to be a fraud, therefore, the whole argument is a wash. Without credibility (JS), his claim is without credibility.
And svcw is correct, the Bible is not central to mormons, the BoM is.
“Much of this attention has been focused on the question of whether it is a Christian faith.”
Mormonism is no more Christian than is Shintoism.
Which is right?
Jesus’ last words
Matt.27:46,50: “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?” that is to say, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.”
Luke23:46: “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, “Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:” and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
John19:30: “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished:” and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”
Which is right?
Judas died how?
“And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself.” (Matt. 27:5)
“And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)
You tell me.
It will not fail - mormons will come and start attacking the credability of the Bible often using atheist sourced arguements. Tear down the bible in order to protect the unprotectable bom
That’s all the Book of Mormon purports to be - a second witness to God and to Jesus - to the peoples of North, Central and North America...just as the Bible is of the Old World.
Except the Jesus the Christians believe in is not the same one the mormons have...
Even Hinckley admitted that...
Not the same Jesus
“There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ.
No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.
LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)
It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons. LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26
Isa 43: 10 You are My witnesses, declares the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. 11 I, even I, am the Lord, And there is no savior besides Me.
Jesus said to maine-iac7, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man or woman comes to the Father except by ME.”
Ok, how do you have reverence for the Bible when you also believe it wasn't translated correctly.
You believe there are errors in the Bible, yet the Bible is at the center of your spiritual life.
For mormonism to stand, they will diminish the value of the Bible because the Bible straight up repudiates most of mormonism doctrines. Mormons will not point out that in addition to the bom, they have two other ‘scriptures’ - called Doctrines and Covanants and the Pearl of Great Price - that they hold in practice above the Bible. Add to that the mormon doctrine of a living prophet empowered to speak changes to any of the mormon ‘scriptures’ and doctrines and you have a jolly good free for all trying to decide what mormons believe at times.
(Matt. 27:5) And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out. (Acts 1:18
Judas bought the field. He returned the money to the priests. When Judas hanged himself and then fell "headlong" it was because the body was either cut down or fell because of decomposition......broke open and his inners spuewed out. Not really surprising.
Where did svcw say that?
Show me where I said there were errors.
Are you trying to read my mind?
“You believe there are errors in the Bible...”
Where did svcw say that?
Sorry, I made the rash assumption that you are familiar with the thousands of variants discovered through NT textual criticism.
If so, would He not also communicate to them?
In THAT case, where are the "books" in Sioux, Cherokee, Hope, Navajo, telling of the visit to the "new world"?
Or, are those batches of plates yet undiscovered, waiting for an even newer "prophet" to discover them?
There ARE native legends that can be followed, but I am unaware of any that speak of "On Easter Sunday, 3 April 1836, the Savior, Moses, Elias, and Elijah will appear in succession in
the Kirtland Temple Window Rock, AZ and restore the priesthood keys required for the dispensation of the fulness of times. (See D&C 110.)
an ingenuous non-answer.
I'm not claiming one answer as correct over another.
I am asking you, since you believe the Bible is translated, every whit and tittle, correctly, (that none of the hundreds of scribes thru' the 300 + years until The Council, could have, would have, made any errors,) which of the two examples I gave are, then, correct - in your eyes.
I’ve noticed that Mormons use lots of words that don’t mean the same thing when Christians use them.
That’s “jot” and tittle. You must have one of those sloppy-scribe translations.
Ive noticed that Mormons use lots of words that dont mean the same thing when Christians use them.
Yes, Elsie has a list of some of those words...
Would you please post your list, Elsie ???
RE; #28...”Hope should be Hopi”...guess I’m just all excited about the “hope and change” we are seeing.../sarc
Jesus died as the Victor, He had completed what He came to do. When He gave up the Spirit it was an act of His will.
Luke23:46: And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Would mean the same thing.
Jesus last words Matt.27:46,50: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Would have been nice to use all the versus. So I will.
46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Giving up the Ghost, giving up the Spirit, yielding the Spirit, yielding the Ghost are all the same thing.
That “change” tribe must been one of the found lost tribes of mormonism...
No problem I am used to ldsers thinking I am to stupid to know anything.
Don't remember say that.
I always get a laugh when mormons trot the "thousands of variants" arguement - with apparent lack of what the definition of 'variant' ever really is or how it it totaled. Most of these 'variants' consist of mis-spellings or obvious slips of the pen, so that a variant spelling of one letter of one word in one verse in 2,000 manuscripts is counted as 2,000 errors.. Kinda sucks the oxygen out of the mormon applicaition doesn't it.
The fact of the matter is that because of the wealth of tens of thousands of ms, both in greek and other languages, the writings of ANF, lectionaries etc, these are readily identified. Others are readily identified as grammatical. Bottom line is Textual scholars Westcott and Hort estimated only one in 60 of these variants has significance. This would leave the text 98.33% pure. Philip Schaff calculated that, of the 150,000 variants known in his day, only 400 altered the meaning of the passage, only 50 were of real significance, and not even one affected an article of faith or a precept of duty which is not abundantly sustained by other and undoubted passages, or by the whole tenor of Scripture teaching.
PS Bible scholars know where these critical variants occur, and have so for quite some time.
Please tell us all why smith left these clear variants, like the Johannie Comma in place when he supernaturally corrected the KJV to translate it to what it origionally should have read? Thats one I'm still waiting for an answer on.
Of course not. The Bible books were written long before anyone in the Old World KNEW of the existence of the Americas. There was no "OLD WORLD" until after the 'discovery of "THE NEW world."("OLD" and "NEW" are man's titles...even though the Americas are every bit as old as the other. It's man's labels, not God's.)
that is why none of the American lands are mentioned in the Bible while all the "Old World" lands ARE.
But GOD knew the Americas were here and the peoples thereof. They were as much His as of the Old World.
Maybe that's what Jesus referred to when He said "King James Bible - "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."?
I don't claim to know. The Apostles didn't know. The Bible simply records what He said.
Elsie may be out grooming the goats and won't be here for a little while, but..... I think elsie has an updated version, but here is one list of Christian/mormon word meanings:
Mormon versus Christian definitions
(1) Used almost exclusively as a reference to Jesus' conquering physical death for all people. By conquering physical death, Jesus made it possible for all people to enter again into the presence of Heavenly Father - if for no other reason than to be judged by him. In other words, they are again 'at-one' with him (atoned). This will happen at Judgment Day. Those who have earned it will live in the Celestial Kingdom with Heavenly Father. Everyone else will live outside of the presence of Heavenly Father.
(2) At times atonement includes the thought of Jesus' paying for people's sins. But underlying all such references is the thought that they have to pay him back. For a good example of the LDS view of Jesus' atoning work, see Gospel Principles chapter 12.
Jesus' complete payment, made once, for all the sins of all the people of the entire world.
Hebrews 7:27: Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
1 Peter 3:18: For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. Through faith in Jesus' payment, we are given eternal life in heaven.
One of four books Mormons consider scripture. They believe it to be the Word of God "as far as it is translated correctly" (Eighth Article of Faith). They believe many precious parts have been lost from it (1 Nephi 13:28). Consequently they consider it the least reliable of the scriptures. Many Mormons are not familiar with it.
The inspired, complete and inerrant Word of God.
Mormon's Plan of Salvation outlines an intricate process of progression toward eternal life (exaltation). Anything that stops a person in their progression, such as dying without having a celestial marriage, is considered damnation as it blocks or dams their progression.
The consequence of unbelief. Unbelief results in damnation, that is, suffering eternal punishment in hell.
Eternal Life (Exaltation)
Living eternally as a god, synonymous with godhood and exaltation. "Exaltation means the same thing as eternal life" (Learn of Me, p. 72). Eternal life is reserved for those who attain the highest level of the celestial kingdom. Mormons must become perfect, have received their endowment, and been married in the temple (Celestial Marriage) before they can earn eternal life. This eternal life will be lived both with Heavenly Father in the celestial kingdom and as god over their own world which they will populate with their own children.
By faith in Jesus' payment for our sins, we are given the gift of eternal life living with God in heaven as his children.
(1) The belief that God exists and has given a good plan of salvation (Mormonism).
(2) The power God gives Mormons whereby they can resist sin and become perfect. "But he must believe the truth, obey the truth, and practice the truth, to obtain the power of God called faith" (Past Living Prophet and President Brigham Young quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church Brigham Young p. 56). The more righteous a person is, the more power (faith) God will give him. "To those who have not begun the quest of comprehension, the word faith appears to be only a synonym for a kind of belief or conviction....It is a principle of power" (Sharing the Gospel Manual, p. 82).
The sure hope of our deliverance from death to eternal life in heaven. Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Must be earned through what may be "weeks, years, or centuries" of effort. To be forgiven of a sin, one must meet the demands of the LDS definition of repentance for that sin. God 'remembers' the original sin and you lose your forgiveness if you recommit the sin.
The undeserved gift of having your sins separated from you "as far as the east is from the west". Because Jesus paid our penalty as our substitute, we are considered guiltless by God. God does not remember our sins.
Mormonism has expanded the definition of the term 'gift'. The expanded definition includes as 'gifts' things which are rewarded to an individual only after first completing certain requirements or first demonstrating sufficient worthiness. The expanded definition also includes as 'gifts' things which once received, obligate the receiver to a set of conditions; which, if broken revoke the 'gift'. Most 'gifts' in Mormonism actually fall under the expanded part of the Mormon definition (eternal life, grace, forgiveness, the help of the Holy Ghost, most of God's many blessings). Mormon doctrine goes so far as to say that God is 'obligated' to give a particular 'gift' once the prescribed prerequisites have been achieved by the receiver of the gift. Most of the 'gifts' of Mormonism are not gifts but rewards, compensation, obligatory payments, and contracts.
A gift is something we receive which is undeserved, unearned, offered freely by the bestower.
A term that refers to Mormonism in general. Or in particular, Mormonism's intricate plan of salvation. "Mormonism so-called - which actually is the gospel of Christ, restored anew this day" (Sharing the Gospel Manual, p. 176).
The "Good News" of free and full salvation (eternal life with God in heaven) won for mankind by Jesus Christ.
The power God gives people to save themselves, conditional on their earning it by doing all they can do on their own. "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23). This grace does not directly provide them with eternal life, but rather with the power to make up the difference between "all they can do" and perfection.
The unconditional, free gift of eternal life given us through faith in Jesus' saving work. Ephesians 2:8-9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Any of the three kingdoms Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial. Life even on the lowest kingdom will be much better than earth, and even the vilest of unbelievers will receive a life in heaven. "The book (Doctrine and Covenants) explains clearly that the lowest glory to which man is assigned is so glorious as to be beyond the understanding of man. It is a doctrine fundamental in Mormonism that the meanest sinner, in the final judgment, will receive a glory which is beyond human understanding, which is go great that we are unable to describe it adequately." (John A. Widtsoe, quoted in Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 166). Yet, even in the highest kingdom all but those who have earned exaltation will have less than complete happiness. "How lonely and barren will be the so-called single blessedness throughout eternity!" (Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 19).
God's glorious home, where all who believed in Jesus' saving work will live forever happy with him. Revelations 21:3-4: And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.".
(1) Not a place of eternal punishment but the temporary state of suffering wicked spirits experience in spirit prison before Judgment Day. "That part of the spirit world inhabited by wicked spirits who are awaiting the eventual day of resurrection is called hell....Hell will have an end" (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 165).
(2) The regret the inhabitants of the lower kingdoms will experience as they see the glories of the celestial kingdom is described in Mormon literature as a kind of hell.
(3) Mormons call Satan's domain Outer Darkness. Only those who leave the LDS church are sent to Outer Darkness.
Satan's domain of unending torment. Mark 9:47-48: And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. All unbelievers will be cast into hell. Matthew 25:41: "Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Unfamiliar term to most Mormons. Mormonism describes it as God's strict confirmation of the merits or demerits of man's own actions. In other words, LDS justification is God's act of rewarding people on their own actions, rewarding right and punishing wrong.
God declares us (believers) not guilty on the basis of Christ's atoning work.
Paid - As in "Jesus paid for my sins".
Mormonism uses the word 'paid' as a synonym for 'refinanced'. When a Mormon says "Jesus paid for my sins", he does not mean that he no longer owes the debt of sin, merely that the creditor and the terms have changed. The entire debt still remains to be paid!
When a Christian says "Jesus paid for my sins", he means that his entire payment for all his sins has been made, no more debt remains, no further payment is due or could even be made.
"It is a long road spiked with thorns and briars and pitfalls and problems" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness quoted in Gospel Principles, page 123.
The Mormon definition includes:
Points 1-7 referenced in Gospel Principles, pages 124-125.
Point 8 referenced in Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, page 224.
Point 9 referenced in Missionary Discussions, page 2-14 / Study Guide 2, page 3.
From Teachings of the Presidents of the Church Joseph F. Smith: True repentance is not only sorrow for sins, and humble penitence and contrition before God, but it involves the necessity of turning away from them, a discontinuance of all evil practices and deeds, a thorough reformation of life, a vital change from evil to good, from vice to virtue, from darkness to light. Not only so, but to make restitution, so far as it is possible, for all the wrongs we have done, to pay our debts, and restore to God and man their rights - that which is due to them from us.
Literally, a change of mind. A turning of one's heart from trust in yourself and your works to trust in Jesus and his work for you. Such a change of heart will result in sorrow for one's sins and a humble attitude of following God's will.
Synonymous with atonement.
Christ bought all mankind back (redeemed) from the wages of our sin. See atonement.
(1) For most Mormons this is equivalent to physical resurrection, the reuniting of body and soul on Judgment Day. This is the only free gift in Mormonism. This is why many can say they believe they are saved by Jesus alone. They mean that they believe they don't have to do anything to be resurrected. However, this salvation does not grant eternal life (exaltation). That is based on their successful completion of their plan of salvation. Mormonism states that if one makes no effort and is an unbeliever he / she will still be resurrected and assigned a place in the lowest kingdom. Therefore, a Mormon can say that a person is granted heaven solely on Jesus' atoning work. And that person need not even believe in Jesus to attain it.
(2) Sometimes 'salvation' is used as a synonym for exaltation, as in "Plan of Salvation" (actually the plan of exaltation).
The free gift of eternal life in heaven with God given us through faith in Jesus' saving work.
A term not commonly used in Mormonism. They use it to refer to a state of saintliness which is obtained as people purify themselves by overcoming sin.
(1) Believers in Jesus' saving work are considered saints by God (sanctified). This refers to our status as citizens of heaven, while living on earth.
(2) While on earth, the continuing work of the Holy Spirit resulting in the strengthening of our faith and becoming increasingly Christ-like (holy).
(3) The final change that occurs on Judgment Day where believers are forever separated from their sinful nature and are thereby made holy.
A word not commonly used by Mormons since Mormonism has a weak view of sin. "But all of us are guilty of sin to some degree" (Gospel Principles, p. 117). Instead of talking about sin, they use words such as bad habits, infractions, mistakes, and poor judgments.
Any violation of God's commands, whether in thought, word, or deed. Includes any and all trespass, transgression, iniquity, wickedness, etc. Includes sins of omission (not doing what we are commanded) as well as commission (doing what we are commanded not to do).
Plan of Salvation
In general, Mormonism. Specifically, an intricate plan outlining a process of progression toward eternal life (exaltation). Steps in this process include becoming perfect, temple endowment, and celestial marriage. All the laws and ordinances of Mormonism embody the plan.
God's plan of sacrificing his perfect son so that all who believe in him are saved (given eternal life). John 3:14-17: Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
What? Um, GOD wrote the bible. That's what scripture means: "God breathed", in case you didn't know that. And I'm guessing He knew all about ALL the lands which HE CREATED (not "organized").
Its like arguing with wind.
I know but it’s fun :-)
TM4 PING to # 41 for a list of words and different meanings ...
As you can see...
Mormonism is not Christianity...
So where is all the evidence for these nephites and lamanites? They should by all measure of archaeology have archaeological finds all over the place, so pray, tell us where the cities of the bom lands are and have been recognized by the archaeological community?
Still trying to figure out where that is all mentioned in the Bible. After all you were told just today that (lds) god was coming to America in the Bible.
The Restored Gospel® is NOT found in the BoM; like Headquarfters claims.
The NECESSARY Temple Rites® are Not found in the BoM or any OTHER writings considered scripture by MORMONs.
Speaking of OTHER writings; do you REVERE the BOOK of Abraham?
ALL of BY's sermons?
Only as sucker bait.
There is NOTHING in the BoM that is central to MORMONism.
Only in the D&C's and the purloined MASONIC rituals is TRUE MORMONism to be found.
And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself. (Matt. 27:5)
And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out. (Acts 1:18)
After he'd hung there awhile, the rope (or whatever was used to hang him) either gave way or was cut.
Then his rotten body fell down the cliff, smashing into pieces.