Catholic Caucus: Should Pelosi be Tobin-ed by Bishop Jaime Soto

Various | February 28, 2010 | Vanity

[topher]

After Bishop Tobin ex-communicated Congressman Patrick Kennedy, the Congressman decided NOT to seek re-election.

Perhaps Congressman Kennedy wanted to focus on matters of faith in his personal life, and leave public office. It is unclear if there was direct correlation between the ex-communication of Congressman Patrick Kennedy and his decision NOT to seek re-election.

Maybe a new term should be coined to honor Bishop Tobin and the courage he showed in dealing with Congressman Kennedy.

Maybe when a Catholic politican is ex-communicated, that politican could be considered to be Tobin-ed in honor of the good Bishop of Providence, Rhode Island.

Even more important, people should be thanking Bishop Tobin (via letters, phone calls, etc). There should be campaigns to urge other Bishops/Archbishops/Cardinals to Tobin or ex-communicate other Catholic politicans who support abortion.

Certainly Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York has recently become very outspoken on abortion. Good for him!

For additional reading, here is a link to Bishop Tobin's letter to Congressman Kennedy:

LifeSiteNews.com: Bishop Tobin's Public Letter to Rep. Kennedy

There is this link to a FreeRepublic Article about Archbishop Dolan of New York, as additional reading.

NY Archbishop on Outspoken Abortion Teaching: I'm Just Doing My Job

The article on Archbishop Dolan has a link to the original LifeSiteNews.com article.

It should be said that Bishop Tobin is not the first to ex-communicate politicans.

In August 2004, Archbishop John Francis Donoghue, of Atlanta, along with two other Bishops, stated that any pro-abortion Catholic politicans could not receive communion. This was the Worthy to Receive proclamation of the Archdioceses of Atlanta, Diocese of Charlotte, and another Diocese.

[topher]

Does anyone have a problem with Nancy Pelosi being ex-communicated because of her abortion issues.

It is a time to make this an issue, especially with abortion as a aspect of the healthcare bill.

[topher]

Should we get a letter writing campaign to various Bishops/Archbishops/Cardinals asking them to ex-communicate Catholic politicans who support abortion?

If the momentum that the Tea Party is getting, to get the additional support of pro-life Catholics putting pressure on the magistrate to act like Bishop Tobin, in my opinion, is the something we can do as the laity.

[vladimir998]

“After Bishop Tobin ex-communicated Congressman Patrick Kennedy..”

He was formally excommunicated?

[topher]

Here is a link (via the Archdiocese of Atlanta website) to Archbishop John Francis Donoghue's writing on this subject:

Worthy to Receive the Lamb: Catholics in Political Life and the Reception of Holy Communion

The other two bishops were Bishop Baker (Charleston, SC) and Bishop Jugis (Charlotte, NC)

[topher]

Yes. There was some discussion on that. But he was ex-communicated.

I will research the articles about that and post a link...

[topher]

The article on LifeSiteNews.com is:

Bishop Tobin Asked Rep. Kennedy Not to Receive Communion

Monday November 23, 2009

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Bishop Tobin Asked Rep. Kennedy Not to Receive Communion

By James Tillman

WASHINGTON, DC, November 23, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - U.S. Representative Patrick Kennedy (D-RI) said in an interview Sunday that Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has instructed him to refrain from Communion because of his pro-abortion political position.  In response to Kennedy's statement, Bishop Tobin has clarified that his request was issued in 2007 and was not the result of the recent highly public exchange between Kennedy and himself.

"The bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan priests not to give me Communion," Kennedy told the Providence Journal.

The admission comes after a verbal fight between Kennedy and Bishop Tobin, sparked by Kennedy's saying that the Church was fanning the "flames of dissent and discord" by opposing the health care bill then in the House, which would have brought about federally-funded abortions. Kennedy also questioned whether or not the bishops were really "pro-life" based upon their opposition to the health bill.

Bishop Tobin responded by calling Kennedy a "disappointment to the Catholic Church and the citizens of Rhode Island." 

The most recent exchange between the two is the first since Kennedy said that he wanted to cease discussing his faith in public, after a projected meeting between Kennedy and Tobin fell through about two weeks ago.

In a response to Kennedy's latest statement, Bishop Tobin said he was "disappointed and really surprised that Congressman Patrick Kennedy has chosen to re-open the public discussion about his practice of the faith and his reception of Holy Communion."

He continued by pointing out that he had in fact asked Kennedy to refrain from Communion approximately three years ago, in light of Kennedy's consistent opposition to Church teaching. "On February 21, 2007, I wrote to Congressman Kennedy stating: 'In light of the Church's clear teaching, and your consistent actions, therefore, I believe it is inappropriate for you to be receiving Holy Communion and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so,'" said Tobin.

Kennedy had declined to say when or how Bishop Tobin had told him not to receive Communion.  He has also said that he has since received Communion.

Bishop Tobin explains in his response that his request came in the light of a USCCB document that says that if "a Catholic in his or her personal or professional life were knowingly and obstinately to repudiate her definite teachings on moral issues, he or she would seriously diminish his or her communion with the Church. Reception of Holy Communion in such a situation would not accord with the nature of the Eucharistic celebration, so that he or she should refrain."

Furthermore, Bishop Tobin has disputed Kennedy's statement that he told diocesan priests not to give communion to Kennedy.  "If I had told 300 priests of the diocese in any format not to give Communion to Kennedy or anybody else, you think that would have remained confidential?" Bishop Tobin asked.

Nevertheless, in another interview Bishop Tobin said that he might have "a little conversation" with any priest who gave Kennedy the Sacrament.

Bishop Tobin also said that he has "no desire to continue the discussion of Congressman Kennedy's spiritual life in public."

The bishop has declined to say whether he has made similar requests regarding the reception of Communion to Sen. Jack Reed, a Catholic Democrat from Rhode Island who supports abortion, or to Rhode Island Rep. James R. Langevin, who has supported embryonic stem cell research.  Sen. Reed has said that any discussions between him and the bishop will remain private.

Tobin wrote that he had intended to keep his correspondence with Rep. Kennedy similarly private. "It was never intended for the public domain," he said.

"At the same time," his letter states, "I will absolutely respond publicly and strongly whenever he attacks the Catholic Church, misrepresents the teachings of the Church, or issues inaccurate statements about my pastoral ministry."

Tobin was asked by the Providence Journal whether his firm public stand was designed to advance his career within the Church.

"No," he said. "Bishops who tend to be really outspoken don't tend to get promoted.

"It's simply one bishop - me - doing my job as best I can."

See related LifeSiteNews.com coverage:

Bishop Tobin's Public Letter to Rep. Kennedy 

Catholic Bishop Publishes Extraordinary Letter Re: "Obstinate" Kennedy's Abortion Support 

Rep. Kennedy Questions Whether Bishops "Pro-Life" over Opposition to Healthcare: Local Bishop Demands Apology 

URL: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/nov/09112301.html

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[vladimir998]

The article said:

“In response to Kennedy’s statement, Bishop Tobin has clarified that his request was issued in 2007 and was not the result of the recent highly public exchange between Kennedy and himself.”

This might not seem like much of a difference, but there is actually a difference between formal excommunication and a bishop REQUESTING someone not receive the Eucharist. There’s no request in a formal excommunication. The end result is largely the same for Kennedy - except that Tobin spared him a stronger censure.

[Houghton M.]

No, the bishop asked him to excommnicate himself—self-excommunicate. That’s to avoid giving the politician ammunition to turn around and make an issue out of the bishop’s action while at the same time making the point that the politician has removed himself from good standing in the Church.

Sooner or later formal excommnication will be unavoidable, but when it happens, it will actually be turned back against the excommunicating bishops and, in the short run, the bishops will be the losers. In the long run, they’ll have no choice. But they are trying for the present to finesse it. They are right to be aware of the blowback that will happen. But foolish to think the politicians aren’t smart enough to know that self-excommunicating themselves has something in it or the bishop and nothing in it for politician.

Which is why sooner or later, the bishops will have to non-self-excommunicate, formally excommnunicate.

But Bishop Tobin did at least help to get Patches Kennedy to self-de-elect himself. That’s a gain.

[Salvation]

**Should Pelosi be Tobin-ed by Bishop Jaime Soto **

One word answer:

YES!

[Salvation]

I thought this was her Archbishop -- I remember reading about her meeting with Archbishop Niederauer

Archdiocese of San Francisco
Most Reverend George H. Niederauer
One Peter Yorke Way
San Francisco, CA 94109-6602

[bronx2]

When the fateful hour arrives for Pelosi’s moment of accountability, the Church should deny her a Catholic burial, provided she has not publicly repented before her demise. This denial of burial will only serve to instruct the faithful and overcome the scandalous example rendered since Vat II. Finally, B16 need to find a bridge to the Protestants for the Catholic clergy whose spiritual sentiments lie outside the bounds of Catholic dogma and in accord with with High Priestess Joni and Vickey Jean. The high priestess should institute “Ordinates” for these individuals much like B 16 is establishing a bridge for the Anglicans. Crossing the Tiber is a two way street and Mahoney and his buddy Todd Brown need to be encouraged to leave. How lovely this would be.

[Salvation]

Pelosi’s archbishop slams her rationale for supporting abortion

[topher]

From her web page, it appears she in in San Francisco.

The reason I thought she was in Sacramento was that she would fly into Sacramento. She complained about the service the US Air Force gave her. She eventually had millions spent on a larger plane -- just for her.

But maybe Sacramento had the nearest Air Force base, or that was closer to her home...

[topher]

Many called what Bishop Tobin did a public ex-communication.

That happened because Congressman Kennedy made a public issue of it.

If a Bishop tells you publicly not to receive communion, you are ex-communicated, in my opinion.

The Governor of Rhode Island supported the Bishop on this issue.

And later, Kennedy announced his retirement.

So it did not backfire on Bishop Tobin -- so far.

[Salvation]

Perhaps they have some vineyards in the Sacramento vicinity and also a home in San Francisco. Who knows?

I think she got some kind of earmark for wine manufacturers, and that is her husband’s business.

[Houghton M.]

Sorry, but there’s a difference between asking the person not to present himself for Communion and pronouncing a sentence of excommunication on him. The Catholic Church has canon laws. There’s a difference in law. You may not care, but the Church has laws and draws distinction for a reason.

[topher]

You are correct: Bishop Tobin did not ex-communicate Congreessman Kennedy.

Excerpt from LifeNewsSite.com article:

The subject of excommunication gained national attention late last year when Bishop Thomas Tobin of Rhode Island publicly acknowledged that he had asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy to refrain from receiving communion. Though Tobin never excommunicated Kennedy, the incident was enough to respark debate over the practice.

[topher]

I am in error. Bishop Tobin never ex-communicated Congressman Kennedy.

The article:

Bishop Vasa Affirms Church’s Use of Excommunication

The following excerpt from that article (last paragraph):

The subject of excommunication gained national attention late last year when Bishop Thomas Tobin of Rhode Island publicly acknowledged that he had asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy to refrain from receiving communion. Though Tobin never excommunicated Kennedy, the incident was enough to respark debate over the practice.

Even though Congressman Kennedy was not ex-communicated, it appears that the controversy caused the Congressman to seek retirement.

There is still room for adding a term tobin indicating that a politican has been reprimanded by his Bishop and told not to receive communion because of disobediendence to Church Teachings...

[vladimir998]

Thanks for the info. Good to know.

[A.A. Cunningham]

you are ex-communicated, in my opinion.

Your opinion is only that. There has no been no ferendae sententiae excommunication of Patrick Kennedy.