Posted on 03/02/2010 7:59:21 AM PST by Gamecock
I object!
Where did you study greek where they used the dictionary in strongs concordance to determine grammar?
Minnesota Bible College, St. Louis Christian Seminary, Cincinatti Christian Seminary. Old writings and manuscripts from 200 BC to 200 AD. Why researchers such as Nestle, who used Tischendorf, Westcott and Hort, and Bernhard Weiss as his source would see fit to change the term to the singular by comparing these 19th and 20th century editions is not explained. He picked 2 out of 3 to create his edition around 80-90 years ago.
The question you need to ask, and I still ask, is where did Strong get his information? Did you check that article I sent you a link for?
So Ken, your telling me that the translaters of the NIV, ESV, NASB and the NKJV don’t know how to translate into english, correct?
Nope, not at all. Just telling you the facts, and mentioning the terms used. If you read that article I mentioned, you will have a better idea of where I'm coming from. It states it much better than little bits and pieces at a time in such a media as we have on FR. Read the article with an inquisitive and open mind - let the logic of it set the tone. Thanks for your questions.
Thank you for the article recomendation Ken, but I’m way beyond the article reading stage in my study of this subject. Also, while I appreciate your concern for the “open-nis” of my mind you should know that there are some out there who don’t get their theology from Hal or Tim and still would not agree with you.
Have you ever asked yourself this question, why do I believe what I believe? I say this because who, at the start of their Christian walk settles the issuses brought up in the OP before they join their first church? Of course no one does this and we tend to believe what our church teaches us. And then when we are challanged, on the advice of our pastor, we pick up Oswald Allis or Vern Poythress and find that we agree with them because they are trustworty men of God and make a convincing arguement.
But then we move to a different state and we find a new church which believes differently and they suggest we read Ryrie and Chaffer, also trustworth men of God and to our amazement we find that they also make a good arguement. So then we either let the matter go or we dig in and really study the issue. This is the stage I’m at and have been for about 4 years now. Although the only issue that really matters is are you trusting in Jesus for your salvation, it is an interesting subject.
If the “covies” really want to get some respectability with the likes of me, they will have to agree that in taking over the promises given to the nation of Israel, they will acknowledge that those promises were two fold, good things for obedience and curses for disobedience. Taking the good things and ignoring the curses is a problem I have yet seen addressed in any real detail from a Biblical prespective.
Take care,
Tom
That file is MY study of the issue on the 1,000 years of Revelation. I linked it to you so that you would understand what I have found and think worthy of consideration. It is in part why I said what I said in the posts on this thread. In no way is what my article says to be considered the LAST WORD. It is a "Preliminary study" of the terms, and the confusion inherent in the translators findings. I've had it checked by well-known Scholars of the Greek language of the 1st century, and they agreed it is worthy of noting. As for the results of my study, it does not take away nor change any of the Gospel of Christ - it just questions certain conclusion taken as gospel by a lot of people. I say this to clear up impressions people may get before checking up on it - is that fair or not?
Thanks for all you said. Much of it was the same as I said when I was doing the study, which took quite a few years and a lot of letter writing to noted individuals in Christianity to complete - yet it is not a completed work by any means.
Who are these "covies"? I've never heard that before. As to taking over the promises given to the nation of Israel, well, some of those promises do relate to what Christ would do when He came, and some were related the their present state of affairs. Yes, a lot of the promises made by God through prophets were two-fold: concerning obedience and curses if not obedient. Basically, live or die if... As for no one addressing that, well, I've read many papers and sermons on that very topic; it depends on one's affiliations IMHO. I see Jesus doing the same as the OT prophets in many instances in the Gospels. Maybe you do too?
BTW: Many in the groups I affiliate with are of all the "millenial" persuasions, but, to guess, I think there are more of the "amillennial" arm.
Basically, I'm "pro" His return :-)
Thank you Ken. I want you to know that I also have not made up my mind in final on this issue. I tend towards the pre-mil position while admitting that the other “mils” make good points. I also think that non-dispensationalists make too much of the passages in ch 20 of Revelation. I believe that Milennial Kingdom is found other places in the Bible, it is only here that the actual time is defined. But the real arguement on this thread is not the length of the milennium but where in history it is located and by extension, the composition of it.
I do not write any of this in an attempt to convince you of anything or to display even my personal brilliance in this matter. I’m basically self-taught in theology. I do know a little about greek but as you know, a little knowledge is dangerous. For that reason, I have studied up on my english grammar and placed a certain amount of faith in the translators of the Bible into english.
Just as a parting thought, I just want to mention that one point that non-dispensationalists make to discredit dispensationalism is that it is a new system. The reformation in the 16th century was new, did that make it less truthful?
Take care,
Tom
Covanent and or Replacement theologians
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