Posted on 03/03/2010 10:14:34 AM PST by NYer
NO PRICE TOO HIGH (1 hr)
The profound conversion story of a Protestant minister who brought his congregation with him into the Catholic Church. The viewer will discover the sacrificial yet triumphant journey of a man of deep integrity and love for Christ.
Wed 3/3/10 10:00 PM ET / 7 PM PT
Sat 3/6/10 5:00 AM ET / 2 AM PT
 |
When Detroit-born Alex Jones became a Pentecostal minister in 1972, there was little question among those who knew him that he was answering God's call to preach.
Now, many of his friends and family have dismissed the 59-year-old pastor as an apostate for embracing the Catholic faith, closing the nondenominational church he organized in 1982, and taking part of his congregation with him.
At this year's April 14 Easter Vigil, Jones, his wife, Donna, and 62 other former members of Detroit's Maranatha Church, was received into the Catholic Church at St. Suzanne's Parish. For Jones, becoming a Catholic will mark the end of a journey that began with the planting of a seed by Catholic apologist and Register columnist Karl Keating. It also will mean the beginning of a new way of life.
Jones first heard Keating, the founder of Catholic Answers, at a debate on whether the origins of the Christian church were Protestant or Catholic. At the close, Keating asked, "If something took place, who would you want to believe, those who saw it or those who came thousands of years later and told what happened?"
"Good point," Jones thought, and tucked it away. Five years later, while he was reading about the church fathers, Keating's question resurfaced. Jones began a study of the Church's beginnings, sharing his newfound knowledge with his congregation.
To illustrate what he was talking about, in the spring of 1998 he re-enacted an early worship service, never intending to alter his congregation's worship style. "But once I discovered the foundational truths and saw that Christianity was not the same as I was preaching, some fine-tuning needed to take place."
Soon, Maranatha Church's Sunday service was looking more like a Catholic Mass with Pentecostal overtones. "We said all the prayers with all the rubrics of the Church, all the readings, the Eucharistic prayers. We did it all, and we did it with an African-American style."
Not everyone liked the change, however, and the 200-member congregation began to dwindle. Meanwhile, Jones contacted Detroit's Sacred Heart Seminary and was referred to Steve Ray of Milan, Mich., whose conversion story is told in Crossing the Tiber.
"I set up a lunch with him right away and we pretty much had lunch every month after that," said Ray. He introduced Jones to Dennis Walters, the catechist at Christ the King Parish in Ann Arbor, Mich. Walters began giving the Pentecostal pastor and his wife weekly instructions in March, 1999.
CROSSROADS
Eventually, Jones and his congregation arrived at a crossroads. On June 4, the remaining adult members of Maranatha Church voted 39-19 to begin the process of becoming Catholic. In September, they began studies at St. Suzanne's.
Maranatha closed for good in December. The congregation voted to give Jones severance pay and sell the building, a former Greek Orthodox church, to the First Tabernacle Church of God in Christ.
Father Dennis Duggan, St. Suzanne's 53-year-old pastor, said the former Maranatha members and their pastor along with about 10 other candidates comprise the 750-member parish's largest-ever convert class.
UNITY AND DIVERSITY
Although not all parishioners at predominantly white St. Suzanne's have received the group warmly, Father Duggan, who also is white, said he considers the newcomers a gift and an answer to prayer.
"What the Lord seems to have brought together in the two of us — Alex and myself — is two individuals who have a similar dream about diversity. Detroit is a particularly segregated kind of community, especially on Sunday morning, and here you've got two baptized believers who really believe we ought to be looking different."
Father Duggan hopes eventually to bring Jones onto the parish staff. Already, he has encouraged Jones to join him in teaching at a Wednesday night Bible service. And, he is working on adapting the music at Masses so that it better reflects the parish's new makeup.
The current European worship style at St. Suzanne's has been the most difficult adjustment for the former Maranatha members, Jones said, because they had been accustomed to using contemporary music with the Catholic prayers and rituals. "The cultural adaptation is far more difficult than the theological adaptation," he said.
PROTESTANT ISSUES
Jones said the four biggest problems Protestants have with Catholicism are teachings about Mary, purgatory, papal authority, and praying to saints. He resolved three of the four long ago, but struggled the most with Mary, finally accepting the teaching on her just because the church taught it.
"It is so ingrained in Protestants that only God inhabits heaven and to pray to anyone else is idolatry. ... The culture had so placed in my heart that only the Trinity received prayer that it was difficult."
He is writing a paper on the appropriateness of venerating Mary for a class at Detroit's Sacred Heart Seminary, where he is taking prerequisite courses for a master's degree in theology and pastoral studies. He also is writing a book for Ignatius Press and accepting speaking engagements through St. Joseph Communications, West Covina, Calif.
Jones, the father of three married sons and grandfather of six, is leaving the question of whether he becomes a priest up to the Church.
"If the Church discerns that vocation, I will accept it. If not, I will accept that, too. Whatever the Church calls me to do, I will do."
Although he has given up his job, prestige, and the congregation he built to become Catholic, Jones said the hardest loss of all has been the family and friends who rejected him because of his decision.
"To see those that have worshiped with and prayed with me for over 40 years walk away and have no contact with them is sad."
It was especially painful, he said, when his mother, who had helped him start Maranatha, left to go to Detroit's Perfecting Church, where his cousin, gospel singer Marvin Winans, is the pastor.
Neither Winans nor the pastor of the church that bought Maranatha's building would comment on Jones' conversion. Jones also is troubled that those he left behind do not understand his decision.
"To them, I have apostasized into error. And that's painful for me because we all want to be looked at as being right and correct, but now you have the stigma of being mentally unbalanced, changeable, being looked at as though you've just walked away from God."
Jones said when his group was considering converting, prayer groups were formed to stop them. "People fasted and prayed that God would stop us from making this terrible mistake. When we did it, it was as though we had died."
He said Catholics do not fully understand how many Protestants see their church. "There's this thin veneer of amicability, and below that there is great hostility."
But he remains convinced he is doing the right thing.
"How can you say no to truth? I knew that I would lose everything and that in those circles I would never be accepted again, but I had no choice," he said.
"It would be mortal sin for me to know what I know and not act on it. If I returned to my former life, I would be dishonest, untrustworthy, a man who saw truth, knew truth, and turned away from it, and I could just not do that."
We see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face.
It’s been a quite a while since the articles were published. I’m pretty sure former-pastor Jones is a Permanent Deacon now.
“He will laugh at the Catholic Church for making such pompous claims.”
It’s scriptural. Christ established His Church. What rationale do any of us have to question otherwise? If there’s another church with a better claim, I’d like to hear it.
Otherwise, it’s not pompous at all.
“I reject the Roman Catholic Church, particularly its extra-biblical and anti-biblical teachings, and I reject the pope as the “head” of the church, though I do not reject my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Roman Catholic.”
What teachings do you believer are extra-biblical?
“Do you accept me as a true believer in Jesus Christ, saved and going to heaven, through my repentance from sin, and faith in the death of Jesus in my place and His resurrection from the dead?”
That, is not my position to gage. That is Christ. You answer to him and not us.
Beautiful.
It is interesting that (so far) you have to answer for your fellow Catholics, as they have (so far) declined to answer a simple question for themselves.
At least the popes I quoted made their position(s) clear, excluding me from the ranks of the “saved.”
Perhaps I can put it theoretically, so you won’t have to “judge” me personally, just make your doctrinal position clear:
If a person accepts that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins, and accepts Him into their life as Savior, continuing to follow His teachings in the Bible, while rejecting the Roman Catholic Church as the only true church and the authority of the pope are they saved?
If you can’t answer that question, then I guess you either don’t have an understanding of, or a position on, “EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS”(No Salvation Outside the Church) or are unwilling to disclose it.
Not extra but anti Biblical Teachings of the Catholic (Roman) Church:
1. The perpetual virginity of Mary (who had other children besides Jesus).
2. Salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by baptismal regeneration and is maintained through the Catholic sacraments unless a willful act of sin is committed that breaks the state of sanctifying grace.
The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace which is received through simple faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), and that good works are the result of a change of the heart wrought in salvation (Ephesians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17) and the fruit of that new life in Christ (John 15).
“extra ecclesiam nulla salus”
“For they who without their own fault do not know of the Gospel of Christ and His Church, but yet seek God with sincere heart, and try, under the influence of grace, to carry out His will in practice, known to them through the dictate of conscience, can attain eternal salvation.”
From Lumen Gentium.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/OUTSID.TXT
Have a look at this, and read all the way through.
He certainly did establish “His” Church. However, that has nothing to do with a very fallible human organization. Would you care for me to make a list of the ridiculous actions of your man made organization over the centuries? Selling Papal indulgences, the Renaissance Popes and all the hilarity that in sued. The fact is that the Catholic Church is an organization run by men for men. I know that Protestant denominations have had similar abuses. The difference is they don’t claim to be the only church with fealty to the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
“If a person accepts that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins, and accepts Him into their life as Savior, continuing to follow His teachings in the Bible, while rejecting the Roman Catholic Church as the only true church and the authority of the pope are they saved?”
Let’s go back to Romans.
“When Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves.”
What’s important here? To do the will of your father in heaven. Yes, it is important to say that you love God, but you must do the will of God the Father.
As for opposing his Church, I don’t see why that would be to your credit. Catholics are not saved by condemning Protestants, why then would Protestants be saved for condemning the Church. There is only one Church, and Christ is his head. Those who would strive against the Church, strive against Him.
“1. The perpetual virginity of Mary (who had other children besides Jesus).”
Frankly a relatively minor issue. Scripture talks of kinsmen.
“2. Salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by baptismal regeneration and is maintained through the Catholic sacraments unless a willful act of sin is committed that breaks the state of sanctifying grace.”
Yeah, that’s pretty much it. “You must be born again of Water and the Spirit”. Christ is pretty clear about this. I’m not aware of any Christians that do not baptise their members.
“The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace which is received through simple faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), and that good works are the result of a change of the heart wrought in salvation (Ephesians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17) and the fruit of that new life in Christ (John 15).”
We are taught that Faith and Works are necessary, that we are saved by the Grace of God, through Faith in Christ. As Christ says, Good trees bear good fruit.
This is very clear to see on FR.
Pope Innocent said exactly what I said -- there is one universal church - and you have to be saved by her. Whether you realize this or not at the time is immaterial.
And whether you're subject to the Vicar of Christ to some extent depends on whether "subject" is from the Church's point of view, or yours. If the former, if you are invincibly unable to be convinced, you're still good. So don't worry about it, but prayerfully consider if you ought not to study the Church through her own teachings and not through the pronouncements of those who follow another line of country.
The errors that are around on the internet regarding the Church, the Pope, infallibility (which was strictly defined at VCI) etc. are amazing. My favorite is the solemn quotes from the "Council of Valencia" claiming to place the Bible on the Index of Forbidden Books. Problem is, no such council ever took place.
I think Archbishop Sheen said it best -- if the Catholic Church were really as awful as so many of her detractors believe, we would hate it too!
“He certainly did establish “His” Church. However, that has nothing to do with a very fallible human organization.”
This sword cuts both ways. If Christ established his church, he also says that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Prevail, not test, not challenge. I agree that the Church in her human nature is falliable because men are falliable, but Church in her doctrine is not.
“Would you care for me to make a list of the ridiculous actions of your man made organization over the centuries? Selling Papal indulgences, the Renaissance Popes and all the hilarity that in sued.”
Feel free if it helps you to grapple with things. But make two columns. One for the Good as well.
“The fact is that the Catholic Church is an organization run by men for men. I know that Protestant denominations have had similar abuses. The difference is they don’t claim to be the only church with fealty to the Vicar of Christ on Earth.”
There is no difference. If Catholics are flawed and Protestants are flawed, why would you take their authority when they do not claim any? If you were to send your child to two schools, and one claimed that it was teaching the truth, and the other claimed there was no truth, why would you choose the one which claimed there were no truth, over the one that tries and fails?
If Christ established his church, he also says that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
You are mistaking the Catholic Church and the word Universal, with the Church of Jesus Christ of which the Catholic church happens to be a member, amongst many denominations. Jesus created his church on earth. Your Roman Catholic Church is not the owner of this franchise.
“You are mistaking the Catholic Church and the word Universal, with the Church of Jesus Christ of which the Catholic church happens to be a member, amongst many denominations. Jesus created his church on earth. Your Roman Catholic Church is not the owner of this franchise.”
There hasn’t been a time in the last 2000 years when the Catholic church was not in existance. This is contrary to every other church that is around today.
An excerpt of your link follows:
So we seem to have found the much needed solution: Those who follow the
Spirit of Christ, the Logos who writes the law on their hearts, are
Christians, are members of Christ, are members of His Church. They may
lack indeed external adherence; they may never have heard of the Church.
But yet, in the substantial sense, without formal adherence, they do
belong to Christ, to His Church.
So acording to OUR FATHER’S PLAN by Fr. William Most, one is saved by following the Spirit of Christ WITHOUT ever hearing of the (Catholic) Church.
I agree.
Where I disagree is with the Roman (I don’t want to abuse the word catholic, meaning universal) church is in its attempt to grab all authority and power as the dispenser and keeper of salvation, which is actually in Christ alone.
I don’t need the Roman priest for forgiveness, the Roman mass for life, the Roman baptism for salvation, the Roman marriage for a holy union, etc., etc, etc.
To be accurate it is when one is regenerated by the Holy Spirit that they BECOME a member if Christ’s church, it is non-sensical that they are saved BY the church.
To restate: People are saved INTO the church BY Christ, the only Savior.
Even if they reject Catholicism (Roman) and the pope as the “head” of the “church.”
Thank you for the extensive explanations in your link, which I found to be an incredible attempt to combine a simple, observable biblical truth (salvation through faith in Christ alone) with many false teachings/viewpoints through the centuries of Christendom.
“one is saved by following the Spirit of Christ WITHOUT ever hearing of the (Catholic) Church.”
No, he is saying that it is possible for someone to be saved without hearing of the Catholic church. It is also possible for someone to be saved without ever hearing of Christ, or his Gospels.
“its attempt to grab all authority and power as the dispenser and keeper of salvation, which is actually in Christ alone”
The question arises where does a pastor’s authority come from? The Catholic church is authoritative because of apostolic succession, in that the bishops who are here today have been ordained in an unbroken chain all the way to St. Peter and the Apostles.
Now, what does Christ say to St. Peter? He gives him the keys to the kingdom of heaven and that whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed from heaven.
“I don’t need the Roman priest for forgiveness, the Roman mass for life, the Roman baptism for salvation, the Roman marriage for a holy union,”
So do you believe that marriage, confession, the mass, and baptism are all contrary to Christ’s teachings?
“To be accurate it is when one is regenerated by the Holy Spirit that they BECOME a member if Christ’s church, it is non-sensical that they are saved BY the church.”
And as Christ teaches that one must be born again by Water and the Spirit. It’s not either/or, but both. This is why we baptise.
Please share with us where the Catholic Church teaches protestants aren’t saved by the Grace of Jesus Christ & the Infinite Mercy Our Heavenly Father? I have yet to hear a priest or deacon suggest such a thing in public or in private.
“Why do you Roman Catholics have such a hard time fellowshiping with those who follow Christ, who love Him as their Lord and Savior? Why so antagonistic toward Christians.”
As a thankful convert to Catholic Church, I can’t say I have had ANY difficulty in experiencing fellowship with any believers of Christ, Catholic or not.
The Catholic Church is infallibly led by the Holy Spirit through imperfect men.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.