Posted on 03/03/2010 11:41:20 PM PST by Salvation
This website surveys the origin and development of Roman Catholic Christianity from the period of the apostolic church, through the post-apostolic church and into the conciliar movement. Principal attention is paid to the biblical basis of both doctrine and dogma as well as the role of paradosis (i.e. handing on the truth) in the history of the Church. Particular attention is also paid to the hierarchical founding and succession of leadership throughout the centuries.
This is a set of lecture notes used since 1985 to teach the basis for key doctrines and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. The objectives of the course were, and are:
The course grew out of the need for the authors to continually answer questions about their faith tradition and their work. (Both authors are active members of Catholic parish communities in the Diocese of Richmond, Virginia. Dr. Robert Schihl was a Professor and Associate Dean of the School of Communication and the Arts at Regent University. Paul Flanagan is a consultant specializing in preparing people for technology based changes.) At the time these notes were first prepared, the authors were spending time in their faith community answering questions about their Protestant Evangelical workplaces (Mr. Flanagan was then a senior executive at the Christian Broadcasting Network), and time in their workplaces answering similar questions about their Roman Catholic faith community. These notes are the result of more than a decade of facilitating dialogue among those who wish to learn more about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and why.
All Christians realize that if God has revealed Himself by communicating His will to man, man must be able to know with assurance where that revelation lies. Hence the need for a list (i.e. canon) of books of the Bible. In other words, man needs to know without error (i.e. infallibly) what the books of the Bible are. There must be an authority which will make that decision.
The canon of the Bible refers to the definitive list of the books which are considered to be divine revelation and included therein. A canon distinguishes what is revealed and divine from what is not revealed and human. "Canon" (Greek kanon) means a reed; a straight rod or bar; a measuring stick; something serving to determine, rule, or measure. Because God did not explicitly reveal what books are the inspired books of the Bible, title by title, to anyone, we must look to His guidance in discovering the canon of the Bible.
Jesus has told us that he has not revealed all truths to us.
Jesus then told us how he was planning to assist us in knowing other truths.
The New Testament writers sensed how they handled truth-bearing under the influence of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth.
There was a constant history of faithful people from Paul's time through the Apostolic and Post Apostolic Church.
There was no canon of scripture in the early Church; there was no Bible. The Bible is the book of the Church; she is not the Church of the Bible. It was the Church--her leadership, faithful people--guided by the authority of the Spirit of Truth which discovered the books inspired by God in their writing. The Church did not create the canon; she discerned the canon. Fixed canons of the Old and New Testaments, hence the Bible, were not known much before the end of the 2nd and early 3rd century.
Catholic Christians together with Protestant and Evangelical Christians hold the same canon of the New Testament, 27 books, all having been originally written in the Greek language.
Catholic Christians accept the longer Old Testament canon, 46 books, from the Greek Septuagint (LXX) translation of the Alexandrian Canon.
Protestant and Evangelical Christians, from the Reformers onward, accept the shorter Old Testament canon, 39 books, from the Hebrew Palestinian Canon. Jews have the same canon as Protestants.
Canonical books are those books which have been acknowledged as belonging to the list of books the Church considers to be inspired and to contain a rule of faith and morals. Some criteria used to determine canonicity were
Other terms for canonical books should be distinguished: the protocanonical books, deuterocanonical books, and the apocryphal books.
The protocanonical (from the Greek proto meaning first) books are those books of the Bible that were admitted into the canon of the Bible with little or no debate (e.g., the Pentateuch of the Old Testament and the Gospels)
The deuterocanonical (from the Greek deutero meaning second) books are those books of the Bible that were under discussion for a while until doubts about their canonicity were resolved (e.g. Sirach and Baruch of the Old Testament, and the Johannine epistles of the New Testament).
The apocryphal (from the Greek apokryphos meaning hidden) books have multiple meanings:
Another word, pseudepigrapha (from the Greek meaning false writing) is used for works clearly considered to be false.
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Good description
The books were written by and for the Jewish people. God calls them the oracles of God . Those books were placed in the care of the jewish people
None of us have the authority to add or subtract from the Jewish Canon
Will the infallible interpreters of Scripture and inerrant arbiters of doctrine please identify themselves?
Simple enough just show me where God transfered them to the church... you do not ned to be infallible to see it, IF it is there
Show me where there's anything to transfer ... and show me why I should consider your interpretation of Scripture as being of any more value than mine.
And the Septuagint was translated by ...
Chinese? ... No ...
Norwegians? ... NO ...
Australian Aborigines??? .... NO!!!
Oh, yes ...
It was Jews.
Funny thing, that ...
It is VERY relevant, If the authority was never transfered to the church then we know that those books were not canonical according to God
Romans3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Romans 9:4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
Show me where there's anything to transfer ... and show me why I should consider your interpretation of Scripture as being of any more value than mine.
So far you have not given me any Scripture indicting the transference of the Hebrew text to any Christian church
Who's "WE", Kemosabe?
The Septuagint was translated by Jews. Even by your standards, which I do not accept, the entirety of the Septuagint is Sacred Scripture.
Anyone that believes in the perspicuity and infallibility of scripture..
There's a huge difference between "infallibility of Scripture" and "infallibility of [RnMomof7|ArrogantBustard|RandomlySelectedFReeper]'s interpretation of Scripture".
Looks to me like you're arguing for the latter ... and I reject it as utter nonsense. And the supposed perspicuity of Scripture is unscriptural. IMO. Talk to the Ethiopian eunuch and Phillip the Apostle ... I think they might agree with me.
And tell me: Whatever does the supposed perspicuity of Scripture or the actual infallibility thereof have to do with the Septuagint being a product of Jews?
I quote scripture, I did not "interpret" it . It says what it says..
So seeing that you have not presented a scripture where Christ removed the care of the OT scriptures to the new church I can assume that this New Testament referral of the OT scriptures belonging to the jews is true.
And the supposed perspicuity of Scripture is unscriptural.
1 Corth 1:18
Men are free to believe anything they choose.. If you choose to trust the word of men that is contrary to what scripture says.. that is fully your choice..each man stands before God for himself..
FWIW, there is a sect of Christendom which still adheres to the Holy Fathers' reverent view of Scripture.
They're called, "Reformed".
You have completely ignored that the Septuagint was a product of the Jews.
On this forum, we see from the "reformed" that baptism is for people of any age AND that it is only for adult believers. We see that the "rapture", if it will occur, will occur before AND during AND after the "tribulation", if there is a tribulation. We see that God is three Persons in one Divine Nature AND that there is no distinction among persons in the Divine Nature. We see that Christ both did AND did not perfectly take on human nature along with His Divine Nature. We see that Man has a free will AND has no free will.
Just to pick a few examples.
I'm always impressed by the unanimity of doctrine among the folks who believe in the perspicuity of Scriptures and the pirvate interpretation thereof.
Or not.
I'll stick with Phillip the Apostle, and his Ethiopian friend ...
Well said CC !
Do you believe that the Prayer of Manasseh is canonical ? and The Letter of Jeremiah ? and 4 Maccabees?
The oldest copies of the LXX that we have is from from the 4th century, and was most likely copied by Christians not Jews.We do not have those ancient scrolls
The church fathers were not all in agreement about the canon. That is why there were local councils on the topic, yet Rome did not see fit to officially close the OT canon until the reformation...the reason of course is they needed support for the teachings of prayers for the dead and indulgences that brought in money that was constructing the Vatican
But the major issue is did God give the church permission to change the canon that He gave into the care of the Jews.. I can not see that anywhere in the NT
'Continuing, I must without hesitation mention the scriptures of the New Testament; they are the following: the four Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, after them the Acts of the Apostles and the seven so-called catholic epistles of the apostles -- namely, one of James, two of Peter, then three of John and after these one of Jude. In addition there are fourteen epistles of the apostle Paul written in the following order: the first to the Romans, then two to the Corinthians and then after these the one to the Galatians, following it the one to the Ephesians, thereafter the one to the Philippians and the one to the Colossians and two to the Thessalonians and the epistle to the Hebrews and then immediately two to Timothy , one to Titus and lastly the one to Philemon. Yet further the Revelation of John These are the springs of salvation, in order that he who is thirsty may fully refresh himself with the words contained in them. In them alone is the doctrine of piety proclaimed. Let no one add anything to them or take anything away from them... But for the sake of greater accuracy I add, being constrained to write, that there are also other books besides these, which have not indeed been put in the canon, but have been appointed by the Fathers as reading-matter for those who have just come forward and which to be instructed in the doctrine of piety: the Wisdom of Solomon, the Wisdom of Sirach, Esther, Judith, Tobias, the so-called Teaching [Didache] of the Apostles, and the Shepherd. And although, beloved, the former are in the canon and the latter serve as reading matter, ...... "
Athanasius' 39th Festal Letter in the year 367:
But while eminent scholars and theorists were thus depreciating the additional writings, the official attitude of the Latin Church, always favourable to them, kept the majestic tenor of its way. Two documents of capital importance in the history of the canon constitute the first formal utterance of papal authority on the subject. The first is the so-called "Decretal of Gelasius", de recipiendis et non recipiendis libris, the essential part of which is now generally attributed to a synod convoked by Pope Damasus in the year 382. The other is the Canon of Innocent I, sent in 405 to a Gallican bishop in answer to an inquiry. Both contain all the deuterocanonicals, without any distinction, and are identical with the catalogue of Trent.
And, at the risk of being considered repetitive, I'll remind you ... AGAIN ... that the Septuagint was a product of Jews.
Your comments lead me to believe that you have not.
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