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"Cursed is the one who trusts in man"
The Bible ^ | Jeremiah

Posted on 03/07/2010 11:49:23 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege

5 This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

6 He will be like a bush in the wastelands; he will not see prosperity when it comes. He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives.

7 "But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him.

8 He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit."

~ Jeremiah 17

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: jeremiah; oldtestament
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I am the vine; you are the branches.

If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

~ Jesus Christ (John 15: 5-8)

1 posted on 03/07/2010 11:49:23 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

LOL - I guess y’all are in trouble if man wrote the Bible. I hate to question people’s faith, but you did bring it up at a discussion forum and that does seem like quite a statement in your title.

Let me ask you, why would there be so many horrid lines in the Bible? When I ask devout Christians why this is so, they say it is because of the times in which it was written. Wait a second, that is the same excuse we use for why some of the historical figures we revere did some cruel things.

I thought God surpassed time? Where are the miracles and the people living hundreds of years? Where is the Bible written by God in order to correspond with our time? Where is the Bible without these lines in them? I don’t care if this is from the Old Testament, these are not words from God.

“And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.” (Leviticus 21:9)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Whoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.” (Exodus 22:18-20)

“When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.” (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)

How can any reasonable person explain these passages and then say they take the Bible literally. Subjugating women, killing “witches” and justifying slavery is religion to you? It sounds like the reason these were included is because this was a sign of the times all right, the sign of the evil things men can do to each other and find ways to manipulate the public into believing they are doing good. Even President George W. Bush would say, “No, I’m not a literalist, but I think you can learn a lot from it.”

Sorry if I am questioning your faith, I hear it is healthy for you people to reaffirm it though so please do me the honors to enlighten me in your wisdom.

2 posted on 03/08/2010 12:14:03 AM PST by ATX 1985
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To: CondoleezzaProtege


3 posted on 03/08/2010 12:19:03 AM PST by GOP Poet (Obama is an OLYMPIC failure.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: CondoleezzaProtege

Because of sin, one cannot even trust oneself completely.

So why would a person trust anyone else?

5 posted on 03/08/2010 12:23:38 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: ATX 1985

Sorry.. tired.. just have to say ... ZOT!

6 posted on 03/08/2010 12:28:51 AM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: ATX 1985
Don't look now but you have a very large chip on your shoulder. You wreak of inner anger. I'm betting you don't like it that “In God We Trust” is on our money. I have some answers to some of your questions but I have found over the years that it is a waste of time talking to the walking dead. (soul but no Spirit)
7 posted on 03/08/2010 12:32:55 AM PST by fish hawk
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To: ATX 1985

Well most of those scriptures you posted are from the Old Testament, before the days of Grace. The Law WAS cruel and oppressive (burning witches, etc.), because there was no way to completely purge the land of sin. This is not God’s fault, but it’s man’s who brought this curse upon the earth. But we don’t live under the oppressive law anymore, because there was a man named Jesus, who made a way for us to have our sins washed away without death and destruction.

8 posted on 03/08/2010 12:37:25 AM PST by pcottraux (There's Luke, laughing at somebody different!)
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To: antceecee

9 posted on 03/08/2010 12:40:48 AM PST by LukeL (Yasser Arafat: "I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize")
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To: LukeL

Hardly think my post fed a troll...

10 posted on 03/08/2010 12:43:48 AM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: ATX 1985; CondoleezzaProtege; Berlin_Freeper; antceecee
"Sorry if I am questioning your faith, I hear it is healthy for you people to reaffirm it though so please do me the honors to enlighten me in your wisdom."

Ixnay on the ondescentioncay, Etchay.

(Requiescat in ZOT.)
11 posted on 03/08/2010 12:44:38 AM PST by shibumi ("..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: LukeL; antceecee
From under the bridge, it's hard to see heaven.

12 posted on 03/08/2010 12:48:52 AM PST by shibumi ("..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: shibumi

Sadly.. tis true....

13 posted on 03/08/2010 12:50:26 AM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: ATX 1985
Hi ATX 1985

With regard to the death sentences...

* Yes by God's standard, sorcery is punishable by death--as is just about every sin whether it be lying or idolatry. The Bible says "the wages of sin is death." And since all of us are sinners, all of us deserve the death penalty, and that is exactly what we get. (Have you ever heard of a human who did not die?) We all will die.

* God is eternal. His standards are eternal. Therefore the consequences of breaking His laws are eternal. All of us not only die, but are sentenced to eternal torment in hell. God is righteous, just, and loving. We are none of those things. God hates evil and he must punish sin. Sin is contrary to His character. Would a fair judge allow a murderer to go free? No. God is a fair judge. He punishes criminals.

* We all die. We all are headed toward eternal punishment. That's the bad news.

* Now the good news. The judge has offered us a way out of the death sentence. It may not make sense to you or I, but He says justice can be satisfied if an innocent person agrees to take your place instead. You can go free if an innocent person agrees to bear your punishment.

* GOD sent His Son, Jesus Christ into the world to die and suffer in the place of his people. Jesus Christ lived the perfect life. He never broke any law. He was perfect in both thought and deed and fulfilled God's standard without missing a detail. He agreed to pay our ransom with His own blood. All those who repent of their sin and believe on Him will not face the impending doom which has befallen on the entire human race.

With regard to slavery

* The Biblical perspective on slavery, is a bit complicated. First off, the Jewish practice of slavery was quite different from the way say, the pagan Greeks and Romans practiced it.

* Secondly, while there's never an outright condemnation of the practice of slavery in the Bible, an overall Christian worldview would diminish the likelihood of participating in the practice--> which is why the Christianized parts of the world were among the first to eradicate the practice altogether, (especially since most were not practicing it in accordance with Biblical standards.)

* The Christian life is one of servitude, whether we are rich or poor, that's what we are called to do. The standard is the same, as Christ is our model. And He himself said, "The Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give his life as a ransom for many."

* So even slave-owners, if Christian, are ultimately slaves to their own master: Jesus Christ.

*"And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."

This humbling fact leaves little room for established slavery.

The women in silence

A website describes this well:

1) Paul did not believe that “a woman…must be silent” at all times. He says that women can pray and prophesy in a worship service (1 Cor. 11). There may be a difference between prophecy, which Paul allowed, and teaching, which he did not—or a special situation in Ephesus may have called for silence.

2) The Bible does not teach that females can never have authority over males. Scripture allows women to have civil authority over men, and to have authority over male children, male teenagers, and possibly others. Again, we must find out what situation Paul was dealing with, and whether it applies to the church today.

Regardless, the Bible leaves little room patronization

Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you... ~ 1 Peter 5: 2-3

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her...In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself." ~ Ephesians 5: 25,28

Whether one is male or female, slave or free, the commands of God apply to each of us equally and Christ serves as our example.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ~ Galatians 3:28

14 posted on 03/08/2010 1:23:07 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege (When I survey the wondrous cross...)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

The Bible is simply not a “civil rights” or “human rights” manifesto, using the 20th and 21st century definitions of people who want their rights without giving Jesus Christ His Rights.

The first slavery you read about in the Bible is AFRICANS (Egyptians) enslaving the descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

There will be slavery on this earth until Christ returns. Revelation 18:13. Sinful men who reject the Scriptures will never eradicate it; they’ll just shift it around some.

15 posted on 03/08/2010 1:35:43 AM PST by John Leland 1789 (Grateful)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

Matthew 7:6

16 posted on 03/08/2010 1:40:36 AM PST by shibumi ("..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: John Leland 1789
The Bible is simply not a “civil rights” or “human rights” manifesto.

True, but it is no coincidence that Christianized societies led the rest of the world with regard to the advancement of "civil rights" and "human rights." By living as Christ did in the midst of a godless, pagan culture such as that of Rome, their influence was powerful. Their beliefs and actions helped put an end to things like infanticide and gladitorial contests...and yes, eventually slavery.

17 posted on 03/08/2010 1:43:19 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege (When I survey the wondrous cross...)
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To: John Leland 1789
Their beliefs and actions helped put an end to things like infanticide and gladitorial contests.

I was referring to the ancient world. Unfortunately, infanticide has come back in vogue in full force. No, the Bible is not the "Pro-Life Manifesto" but the Bible is certainly a pro-life document and having a heart for justice does not contradict the faith. However, activism can lead to idolatry and self-righteousness if it replaces the central role our faith in Christ's finished work on the Cross plays in our lives.

18 posted on 03/08/2010 1:48:12 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege (When I survey the wondrous cross...)
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To: ATX 1985
You would have to read the Bible with no man teaching you to understand the Scriptures and the author, The GOD of Israel who saves men by grace through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
You talk of the cruelty of God and know and believe not on His goodness and mercy unto the children of men and you blame Christians for a cursed society of liars, thieves, fools and hateful and evil men who hate God and His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. It is mankind that is evil from his youth up and sins constantly against God. I am willing to bet you are of them that believe that man is basically good, a lie of Satan and his evil minions, and are of them that blame God for the curse of sin than man does daily.
Secular humanists are the worst and most evil of all people as the Book of Romans, chapter 1, makes clear. Communism is a system the left and rino right loves and it is the single most bloody system of man created government as its track record shows. Mao murdered 70 million of his own people, Stalin and Hitler and piled up bodies of their fellow man by the millions and the democrats have murdered over 40 plus million of their own children in America alone.
All the righteousness of man is as filthy rags before the Lord. ROM 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. ROM 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. ROM 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. ROM 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. ROM 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. ROM 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; ROM 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. ROM 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: ROM 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. ROM 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, ROM 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. ROM 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: ROM 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. ROM 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: ROM 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. ROM 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; ROM 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, ROM 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, ROM 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: ROM 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. The good news is that you can be saved by grace only through faith only in the finished works of the Lord Jesus Christ by believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth how that He was crucified for our sins and rose again the third day for our justification. Or you can foolishly continue to believe the lies of the world and its prince of the air, Satan, who hates all mankind. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
19 posted on 03/08/2010 3:51:18 AM PST by kindred (All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,for reproof,...)
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To: ATX 1985
Before your question can be answered in a way that is rational to you, I need to know from what moral code you are deriving your questions. Using phrases such as “horrid lines” and “cruel things” tell me that you are using moral code to judge or at least question “moral” code...

Secondly, remember the story of Jesus who when asked by villagers,(who were said to be following “horrid lines”), what to do with an accused prostitute...did he not say”Let those of you WITHOUT SIN cast the first stone.”? Christ did not deny the authenticity of those “horrid lines”, he was questioning the moral authority of those who wanted to carry the instructions of those”horrid lines” out on some poor prostitute.

Christ said he “came not to destroy the Law”(or those “horrid lines” again... he said he came to “fullfill them”. Christ acting as righteous judge did not deny the law as he was the fullfillment of the Law, yet he rebuked the lawlessness of the villagers and showed mercy to the prostitute. Ultimately, using your terms for God as “surpassing time” and acting transtemporally, God in flesh allowed himself to be hung on a cross, taking the whole weight of the Law(those “horrid lines” again) onto himself and for all time! We are all like the “prostitute”, deserving of death and Hell having transgressed God's law(or His “horrid lines”), yet all men have sinned as well and there is no one who has any real moral authority to bring us into condemnation except the Christ.

Yet Christ wants to save and forgive all of us, the same as he did the prostitute. When we find Christ, we find in him the fullfillment of the law(”horrid lines again”) and his laws are written into our hearts...out side of Christ we remain condemned by that same law and await certain death and hell fire.

So the real question to you should be, what will you do with the grace being extended to you? The LAW or those “horrid laws” have been fullfilled in Christ and his death and resurrection. He has the power of life, death and hell over all of us yet he knows that in our own efforts we can never fullfill the conditions of the Law(those “horrid lines” again). Even if each of us could live sinless going forward, there is still the great mass of our past personal sins that mark each of us for destruction.

The Blood of God has been poured out as that last but perfect sacrifice(the “horrid lines” demanded animal blood to cover the yearly sins of the nation of the Hebrew Israel) for our sins. There is no more sacrifice of innocent animals needed, God in Flesh did the needed “horrid” thing. Any man who is washed clean by that blood has become acceptable in the sight of the Father and heaven...the Law (horrid lines) has no more power over him;he has, like Christ, the Law(”horrid lines”) fullfilled in him!

20 posted on 03/08/2010 4:14:14 AM PST by mdmathis6
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