Posted on 03/14/2010 12:14:46 PM PDT by NYer
Romano Guardini wrote in his book on the Rosary, “To linger in the domain of Mary is a divinely great thing. One does not ask about the utility of truly noble things, because they have their meaning within themselves. So it is of infinite meaning to draw a deep breath of this purity, to be secure in the peace of this union with God.”
Guardini was speaking of spending time with Mary in praying the Rosary, but David Mills, in his latest book, Discovering Mary, helps us linger in the domain of Mary by opening up to us the riches of divine revelation, both from tradition and Scripture. Mills, a convert from the Episcopal Church, former editor of the Christian journal Touchstone and editor of the 1998 book of essays commemorating the centennial of C.S. Lewis’ birth The Pilgrim’s Guide: C. S. Lewis and the Art of Witness, as well as the author of Knowing the Real Jesus (2001), has written a rock-solid introduction to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and done so with intellectual rigor and an affable tone.
His book begins with an introduction in which he describes how he came to discover the riches of the Church’s teachings on Mary: “I began to see how a sacred vessel is made holy by the sacred thing it carries,” he writes. “I began to feel this in a way I had not before. I found myself developing an experiential understanding of Mary and indeed a Marian devotion. Which surprised me. It surprised me a lot.”
Unfortunately, he notes, he did not learn about Mary from contemporary Catholics, nor in homilies, “even on Marian feast days.” It seems he learned on his own by reading magisterial documents and going back to Scriptures in light of those documents.
This book shares the fruit of that study. Mills examines the life of Mary, Mary in the Bible, Mary in Catholic doctrine, Marian feast days and the names of Mary. He includes an appendix full of references to papal documents and books on Mary.
Most of the book is done in a question-and-answer format, which usually works well, although at times it feels awkward. Would someone really ask, for instance, “What is happening in the liturgy on the Marian feast days?”
But most of the questions are natural. “What is the point of Marian devotion?” Mills asks. It is “to live the Catholic life as well as we can,” he answers. “This means going ever more deeply into the mystery of Christ, to become saintlier, more conformed to his image, by following Mary’s example and by turning to her for help and comfort.”
Next question: “Does devotion to Mary detract from our devotion to Christ?”
“Christians since the beginning of serious Marian devotion have been careful to emphasize Mary’s subordination to her son,” Mills replies. “In fact, they have said it so often that the reader begins to expect it. In the fifth century St. Ambrose put it nicely: ‘Mary was the temple of God, not the god of the temple.’”
David Mills, with the same radical clarity he showed in Knowing the Real Jesus, has written what has to be one of the best, if not the very best, short introductions to Catholic teaching on Mary, the Mother of God. Discovering Mary is ideal for those wanting to know more about her, whether they be skeptics, Protestants, or Catholics who don’t know the Mother of the Church well enough.
Franklin Freeman writes from Saco, Maine.
DISCOVERING MARY
Answers to Questions About the Mother of God
By David Mills
Servant Books, 2009
148 pages, $12.99
To order: servantbooks.org
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LOL! That’s good to know!
Uhhhhh . . . that’s a grossly misleading assertion.
ESSENTIALLY, IT IS NOT = THE BIBLE.
IT IS CERTAINLY FAR FROM THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD IN SCRIPTURE ON THE MATTERS RELATED THERETO.
It’s a relatively obscure
PHRASE
in the Bible.
. . . taken horrifically out of context and embellished far worse than the 2 feet thick curtain hiding the Holy of Holies that rent when Christ was on the Cross.
Mary - the evidence of scripture
The following lists the accounts of Jesus saying something to or about Mary:
The first 3 are different accounts of the same event.
“46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” - Matt 12
31 Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. 32 And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You.” 33 But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?” 34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” - Mark 3
19 Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. 20 And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.” 21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” - Luke 8
In this account, a woman sought to give honor to Mary:
“While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.” He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” — Luke 11
I’ll note here that the NAB footnotes say, “The beatitude in Luke 11:28 should not be interpreted as a rebuke of the mother of Jesus; see the note on Luke 8:21. Rather, it emphasizes (like Luke 2:35) that attentiveness to God’s word is more important than biological relationship to Jesus.”
There is the Wedding at Cana:
1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4 Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”
6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.”...You have kept the good wine until now!”...12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He, His mother, His brothers, and His disciples; and they did not stay there many days. — John 2
The Catholic footnote in the NAB: “4 [4] This verse may seek to show that Jesus did not work miracles to help his family and friends, as in the apocryphal gospels. Woman: a normal, polite form of address, but unattested in reference to one’s mother. Cf also John 19:26. How does your concern affect me?: literally, “What is this to me and to you?”—a Hebrew expression of either hostility (Judges 11:12; 2 Chron 35:21; 1 Kings 17:18) or denial of common interest (Hosea 14:9; 2 Kings 3:13). Cf Mark 1:24; 5:7 used by demons to Jesus. My hour has not yet come: the translation as a question (”Has not my hour now come?”), while preferable grammatically and supported by Greek Fathers, seems unlikely from a comparison with John 7:6, 30. The “hour” is that of Jesus’ passion, death, resurrection, and ascension (John 13:1).”
And finally, we have the scene at the cross:
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. — John 19
A few points seem significant:
1) Jesus never calls her “Mother”, let alone “Queen of Heaven’ or “Spouse of the Holy Spirit”. He only calls her “Woman”. Even Catholic scholars say, “Woman: a normal, polite form of address, but unattested in reference to one’s mother. Cf also John 19:26. How does your concern affect me?: literally, “What is this to me and to you?”—a Hebrew expression of either hostility (Judges 11:12; 2 Chron 35:21; 1 Kings 17:18) or denial of common interest (Hosea 14:9; 2 Kings 3:13). Cf Mark 1:24; 5:7 used by demons to Jesus.”
2) There is only one example in scripture of Mary being exalted by a human - Luke 11.28 Not only does Jesus not concur, but He actively denies the attention paid to Mary: “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”
3) Cana ends with this statement: “After this He went down to Capernaum, He, His mother, His brothers, and His disciples; and they did not stay there many days.” This is one of several verses indicating tension between Jesus and his family - including his mother.
4) When Mary doubted Jesus
Mark 3 provides more detail than covered earlier.
“He came home. Again (the) crowd gathered, making it impossible for them even to eat. When his relatives heard of this they set out to seize him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”...His mother and his brothers arrived. Standing outside they sent word to him and called him.
A crowd seated around him told him, “Your mother and your brothers (and your sisters) are outside asking for you.” But he said to them in reply, “Who are my mother and (my) brothers?” And looking around at those seated in the circle he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. (For) whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother.”
It is also important to note what comes between the verse “When his relatives heard of this they set out to seize him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.” and “His mother and his brothers arrived.”
Between his family setting out “to seize them” because “he is out of his mind”, and their arrival, the scribes echo his family’s concerns - “The scribes who had come from Jerusalem said, ‘He is possessed by Beelzebul’...” - and it is here that Jesus teaches on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
And those who wish to exalt Mary ought to pay attention that it wasn’t just his “brothers” who came for him, but “His mother and his brothers”. The Catholic footnotes in the NAB state, “8 [20-35] Within the narrative of the coming of Jesus’ relatives (Mark 3:20-21) is inserted the account of the unbelieving scribes from Jerusalem who attributed Jesus’ power over demons to Beelzebul (Mark 3:22-30); see the note on Mark 5:21-43. There were those even among the relatives of Jesus who disbelieved and regarded Jesus as out of his mind (Mark 3:21). Against this background, Jesus is informed of the arrival of his mother and brothers [and sisters] (Mark 3:32). He responds by showing that not family ties but doing God’s will (35) is decisive in the kingdom; cf the note on Matthew 12:46-50.”
She was listed in the believers meeting in Acts 1 (”14All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers”) - after which she drops from view.
Jesus didn’t call her “Woman” because HE was disrespectful. The only reason Jesus would treat her thus is to emphasize her humanity - not Queen of Heaven, not the Holy Spirit’s Wife - but the human vessel chosen by God for His purposes.
The passages I’ve cited are, to say the least, less ambiguous than Rev 12...
forgot to ping:
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Uhhhhh . . . that’s a grossly misleading assertion.
ESSENTIALLY, IT IS NOT = THE BIBLE.
IT IS CERTAINLY FAR FROM THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD IN SCRIPTURE ON THE MATTERS RELATED THERETO.
It’s a relatively obscure
PHRASE
in the Bible.
. . . taken horrifically out of context and embellished far worse than the 2 feet thick curtain hiding the Holy of Holies that rent when Christ was on the Cross.
EXCELLENT.
THX.
I'm not surprised that RC's wouldn't see the error of the evolution of their titles and dogmas concerning the BVM.
No, I was just trying to show the historical evolution up to the time of Ambrose. The big thing that jumps out is her titles and claims of her supernatural powers keep changing. They become more grandiose each time.
It breaks my heart, and I think it does Mary’s as well, to see what has been done to her. She sits at the feet of God, worshipping only Him, in Heaven.
And she, as were we all, was taught to pray by Christ Himself not to her or the “saints” in such manner, “Our FATHER, which art in Heaven.....”
Had intercessory prayer to Mary or others been necessary, Christ would have taught us this specifically.
No, I was just trying to show the historical evolution up to the time of Ambrose. The big thing that jumps out is her titles and claims of her supernatural powers keep changing. They become more grandiose each time.
#################
THAT’S THE INHERENT NATURE OF RELIGION with fallen man.
Christ noted that sort of thing most fiercely when He walked dusty paths.
It is interesting that it’s so easily documented vis a vis Mary.
And, that most of the stuff was not formalized into official dogma, IIRC until beginning about 1930. Incredible that they try and pretend it was all a seamless homogeneous thing from AD 33 on.
What rubber history nonsense . . . lies from hell, actually.
INDEED.
even if merely advisable, somewhere the NT would have mentioned it.
Prayers of intercession to saints are no different than you asking your still living friends and family to pray for you.
How is it taken out of context? It is far from the only evidence for the importance of Mary in the Bible, but it is certainly clear enough.
Why will all generations call her blessed?
“For he that is mighty hath magnified me: and holy is his Name.”
She will be remembered and blessed because God Himself has chosen her as His vessel so that His Son can become both God and Man.
Luther and Calvin didn’t have any problems calling Mary blessed, or giving her other titles. It was a later development in Protestantism, which seems to have emerged arbitrarily as the result of blind hatred of Rome.
I have to leave now. But I would suggest separating study of the Bible from the desire to demonize whatever the Church teaches. Mary is NOT to be worshipped. Only God may be worshipped. But she is to be honored as the Mother of Jesus.
So, too, in a different way we honor the Apostles, because Jesus chose them from among many others to be the leaders of the Church in His day.
Your own officially approved, sanctioned and published documents demonstrate otherwise.
There is no excuse.
Scripture is quite clear enough about God’s priorities regarding Mary vs Christ, God, Holy Spirit.
Rubberizing history and Scripture to jury-rig blasphemy and idolatry is inexcusable.
WRONG.
Scripture is clear enough in the New Testament alone about God’s sensibilities vis a vis the gulf
HE HAS PLACED
between graduated believers and mortals.
It really is amazing how much has changed about the BVM. The immaculate conception only became dogma in 1854 AD. The Marian apparitions only really started around the time of the Reformation and have increased dramatically since the 1800's and there is never any consideration that the Devil might be behind it.
All these pious people running to statues of a dead human bowing down and praying to her and no thought that this might actually be serving the Devil.
MESSAGES FROM QUIX HAVE BEEN BLOCKED BY THE OFFICIAL VATICAN SPAM FILTER.
NONSENSE.
YOUR OWN WORDS INDICT THAT PERCPECTIVE.
CHRIST CHOSE THE APOSTLES AND ALLUDES TO THEIR HONORS IN HEAVEN.
There is NO REMOTELY SIMILAR assertions by Christ about Mary.
YET, THE VATICAN EDIFICE GIVES ALL THE APOSTLES COMBINED FAR, FAR, FAR,
FAR, less attention, focus, adoration, acclaim, honor, worship, etc. than it gives Mary.
FAR, FAR FAR LESS.
Your logic fails utterly.
Your inconsistency on such matters crashes the rationale.
It’s fascinating . . . horrific but fascinating . . .
they ignore rather clear declarations about God’s perspective on the gulf HE ESTABLISHED between mortals and graduated believers
yet build skyscrapers of idolatry and blaphemy on a couple of obscure phrases . . .
and they expect respect as rational believers.
Amazing.
I see it first hand at my younger son's high school. My personal experience is these are all pretty good people, but blind. They don't read Scripture. They rely on their church to tell them what the truth is so any question of what they are doing reverts back to a defense of their church not Scripture.
QUITE SO.
Quite DREADFULLY so.
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