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To: Iscool; Belteshazzar
And of course, the quote 2 Tim 3:16-17, but if you read it from 2 Tim 3:14 to 20 you see
14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Firstly, 2:Tim 3:16-17 says that all inspired writing is "profitable", but to say that does not mean that only writing need be followed is a non sequitor.

This passage gives no argument that sacred Scripture without Tradition is the sole rule of faith; for although sacred Scripture ios profitable for these 4 ends, it is not said in that passage to be sufficient. Paul says in 2 Thess 2:15 "15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter." that one requires both Tradition AND Scripture.

The scriptures referred to in 2 Tim 15 says "and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures" -- note infancy. The good part of the New Testament was not written in TImothy's boyhood: the epistles were not written even after Paul wrote to Timothy and none of the books of the NEw Testament were then placed on the canon of the Scripture books which were scriptures of the Old Testament. If one takes the false sola scriptura argument from this, one could erroneously say that the scriptures of the NT were not (incorrectly) necessary for the rule of faith.

And, as you see if you do not excerpt
14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
when you read 16-17 in the context of the surrounding passages, one discovers that Paul's reference to Scripture is only part of his telling Timothy to take as his guide Tradition and Scripture. 14-15 says
"But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus"
Paul tells Timothy to continue in what he has learned -- from Paul (Apostolic Tradition) and from Scripture
10You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them
This is a direct appeal to apostolic Tradition, the oral teaching Paul gave to Timothy.

3:16 taken out of context to prove sola scriptura, when read in context actually is teaching the importance of apostolic Tradition.
In fact, if you read 2 Timothy 2:1-2 you see
1You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others
viz. that much Christian teaching is to be found in Tradition which is handed down by word of mouth. He instructs us to
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
2 Thess 2:15

Just as in Luke 10:16
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Refer to Rom 10:17
17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
To limit Christ's word to the written only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing is to use the terms of the publishing age to refer to acts of the oral age. The Bible nowhere supports that Christ's word is limited to the written only or that all his teachings were reduced to writing

And the oral teaching lasts until the end of time -- 1 Peter 1:25
25but the word of the Lord stands forever."[a] And this is the word that was preached to you.
Note that the word has been "preached", orally. This will be supplemented by the Bible but not supplanted.

And from John
30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may[a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Tradition overlaps with what is contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.

Paul illustrated Tradition when he said in 1 Cor 15:3-11
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed
And in 1 Cor 11:2
2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,[a] just as I passed them on to you.
And Acts
35In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' "
which is an oral tradition handed down to Paul.
675 posted on 03/20/2010 1:23:46 AM PDT by Cronos (St. Ambrose -- elected by popular acclaim)
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To: Cronos; Iscool; Belteshazzar
And in 1 Cor 11:2
2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,[a] just as I passed them on to you.

And Acts
35In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' "

which is an oral tradition handed down to Paul.

Anyone can pick and choose Scriptures, as you demonstrate, and complain against those who do that very same thing to prove their stance.

Okay, we know that what is said in the books of the Bible is what was "orally" taught by Jesus and His Apostles. There is no disagreement on that. But, what is in disagreement is the contention on your part that "Sacred Tradition" is directly from Jesus and the Apostles. Most of your church's Traditions date thier conception many decades and/or centuries later. I especially have in mind the IC of Mary - teachings that have no foundation in the Scriptures or in any of the earliest non-biblical works of individuals that are extant.

And that hold true for all your church's teachings (Traditions) that are not found in the Scriptures. In fact, even the term "Pope" is not found for a century or so later as a term for a "bishop who loved to be first" - see what John said about Diotrephes in his third letter!

685 posted on 03/20/2010 6:57:33 AM PDT by Ken4TA
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To: Cronos
Paul says in 2 Thess 2:15 "15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth OR by letter." that one requires both Tradition AND Scripture.

Now why would you tell a story like that??? And does not mean or in Hebrew, Greek, Eubonics or pig-Latin...

You said 'or' means 'and'...No it certainly does not...Paul warned about you guys that pervert the scriptures...

But IF the scriptures said and instead of or, WHAT oral traditions were handed down from the Apostle Paul to your religion???

OR means 'pick one'...AND means 'both'...AND is not in the verse...Your religion has perverted the scripture to con you guys into believing your religion's oral tradition is real and authoritative, while declaring to you that you can't understand little words like and/or without your religion's private interpretation and guidance...

745 posted on 03/22/2010 9:07:31 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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