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To: Cronos

Thanks for the accusation.

Now exactly what is meant if somebody claims St Paul relies on tradition? What Chapter and verse do we have in Scripture or passage is there where Paul addresses the requirement for reliance on tradition in order to have faith?


737 posted on 03/22/2010 4:59:12 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

Not really an accusation — I said “And yet by doing that you contradict St. Paul who relies on tradition too — but he talks favorably of CHRISTIAN tradition as opposed to the rabbinical tradition. Christ promised an infallible community, a Church of believers. And that’s what was a united front dogmatically for 1500 years.” —> that was a statement in response to your point about Tradition (btw, it’s not just for the Catholic Churches (Latin, Maronite, Syro-Malabar, Syro-Malankar, Chaldean etc.) but also followed by Copts, Orthodox, Armenians,Ethiopians.


738 posted on 03/22/2010 5:31:40 AM PDT by Cronos (Origen(200AD)"The Church received from theApostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants")
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To: Cvengr
2 Thess. 2:15
13But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you[b] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
16May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.
or 2 Tim. 3:14–15
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus
This epistle, remember, is directed at Timothy. The scriptures in Timothy's time were the Jewish scriptures as much of the canon was not even written (Revelation and many Pauline epistles) and was definitely not collected. Paul tells Timothy to continue in what he has learned for two reasons: first, because he knows from whom he has learned it—Paul himself—and second, because he has been educated in the scriptures. The first of these is a direct appeal to apostolic tradition, the oral teaching which the apostle Paul had given Timothy. So you need to take 2 Timothy 3:16-17 out of context to arrive at the theory of sola scriptura. But when the passage is read in context, it becomes clear that it is teaching the importance of apostolic tradition.

This is far more apparent in 2 Tim. 2:2
What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also
What has been taught from the Apostles is to be taught down to others.

Paul commends those who follow tradition in 1 Cor. 11:2
I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you
Jesus clearly does not condemn God given traditions as handed down to the Church by the Apostles but condemns human traditions of the Pharisees. He condemned traditions that contradicted scripture -- and no Church tradition does that.
739 posted on 03/22/2010 5:44:27 AM PDT by Cronos (Origen(200AD)"The Church received from theApostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants")
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