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Fairness of it all (on child being raised by lesbian couple)
Splendor of Truth ^ | March 12, 2010 | Jeff Miller

Posted on 03/14/2010 2:30:21 PM PDT by NYer

One of the most common rebuttals to the situation of the children being raised by Lesbian couple not being able to attend a Catholic schools is the seeming issue of fairness. That a equal standard is not being applied to other irregular situations involving heterosexual couples and the children being raised by them. I agree with Jimmy Akin take on this and as he usually does he puts it succinctly.

You see, an awful lot of parents of kids in Catholic school aren’t morally perfect, and if children were to be excluded on the mere grounds that their parents are sinners then enrollment would be quite low indeed.

And this is true. If a Catholic school applied that kind of test in determining enrollment then it would thwart its principal mission, which is providing a Catholic education to students to help them be more holy and closer to God.

So, “Your child can’t enroll because you’re a sinner” is a nonstarter as a principle of enrollment.

But does it follow from this that a parents’ actions should have no bearing on the enrollment of their children? Couldn’t certain actions of the parents cause such a problem that it would fundamentally interfere with the school’s mission?

Suppose that the parents insisted that their child attend the school naked (and suppose that civil law allowed this, for purposes of the thought experiment).

This fundamental rejection of the school’s dress code would cause such severe problems that the school would be entirely warranted in saying, “I’m sorry, but your child cannot come to school if you’re going to insist on nakedness.”

That’s an extreme, but it’s not hard to see how having a child in class whose “parents” are of the same gender could interfere with the mission of the school:

1) It will impede the ability of teachers to be frank about the nature of marriage due to the problems that will ensue with a child in this situation in the classroom.

2) The child will also become a proselytizer for homosexual “marriage” and/or be tormented relentlessly by other children.

3) The other children will be scandalized (in both the proper and the colloquial senses) by knowledge of the child’s situation.

4) All of the above will be exacerbated to the extent that the “parents” have any presence at or try to play any role in the life of the school.

So . . . bad idea.

It’s not the fact that the “parents” are sinners that makes it rational for the school to deny their children entrance. It is the fact that the nature of their public relationship is such that either the school would have to refrain from teaching the fullness of Christian doctrine regarding the nature of matrimony or tremendous problems would arise with a child in this situation in the student body.

At least that’s how I see it.

How do you? [National Catholic Register Blog]

Catholic schools can’t become Parent Cops seeking out the situations of the children’s parents. But the situation of a same-sex couple is apparent from the get go and is quite public. The situation for the child is of course quite hard. Dawn Stefanowicz a child who grew up with same-sex parents has worked with many other children from similar situations and it is a very difficult circumstance for those children.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: homonaziagenda; homosexualadoption; homosexualagenda; lesbonaziagenda; moralabsolutes; romancatholicism

1 posted on 03/14/2010 2:30:21 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...

For those who were conflicted by this turn in events.


2 posted on 03/14/2010 2:30:54 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer

Sinning and “sinning with pride” are two different things ... one is the nature of a fallen world, the other is a deliberate defiance of God’s rules of order.

SnakeDoc


3 posted on 03/14/2010 2:34:25 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions." -- Robin Hood (Russell Crowe))
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To: NYer

I still think the mother and her whatever must have done something to call the attention of the school to their situation and make an issue of this. They probably wanted this outcome. People like that are very happy to sacrifice their children for their political ideals, and gays are particularly willing to sacrifice and destroy anyone in their way. Add to that a press that hates the Church, and this is tailor made for them.


4 posted on 03/14/2010 2:36:27 PM PDT by livius
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To: NYer

The essence of the issue is that the kid’s entire home life (through no fault of the kid) is in direct opposition to Catholic teaching.


5 posted on 03/14/2010 2:36:32 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: NYer
Despite your feelings and thoughts regarding the issue with this one child, for this child to be accommodated means that the privilege( parents pay substantial sums for Catholic school) of a sound Catholic education for up to 30 other children must be violated.
The issue here is one caused by the lesbian parents.. Your children must be discriminated against, so that my child gets something to which they aren't legitimately entitled.
6 posted on 03/14/2010 2:45:00 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Liberals are educated above their level of intelligence.. Thanks Sr. Angelica)
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To: NYer

Choices have consequences and it seems that certain ‘protected’ segments of society have bought into their own hype and believe that the rules don’t apply to them.


7 posted on 03/14/2010 2:53:47 PM PDT by relictele
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To: livius
I still think the mother and her whatever must have done something to call the attention of the school to their situation and make an issue of this.

Yes .. they did not identify themselves up front. See Fr. Z's post on this matter.

8 posted on 03/14/2010 3:29:25 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Excellent, SnakeDoctor. That sums it up perfectly. No futher clarification is required.


9 posted on 03/14/2010 3:31:56 PM PDT by TheWriterTX (-)
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To: NYer

I think they consciously staged the whole thing. If they just wanted the child to go to Catholic school, the biological mother could simply have enrolled her. There would be no reason to even mention the other woman. There are many Catholic “single mothers,” and many people live with family members or even friends of the same sex and it is not a sexual relationship. But with gays, everything is sexual and everything is political.

I’m sure this was probably staged by some gay group.


10 posted on 03/14/2010 3:38:05 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius; NYer

Exactly. I don’t have to read this caca to know it was all a setup.


11 posted on 03/14/2010 4:01:19 PM PDT by darkangel82 (I don't have a superiority complex, I'm just better than you.)
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To: NYer

Fr. Z’s post is excellent as is the excerpt he posted from Fr. Breslin’s blog.


12 posted on 03/14/2010 4:02:53 PM PDT by steadfastconservative
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To: NYer

How and why does anyone think these women would permit the school to instill values in their preschool child that are contrary to those they hold?

The argument that the school could offer the child values is ludicrous. The child would be conflicted constantly between what was taught at school and what was lived at home.

Ask why these women would push to enroll their preschool child in a Catholic school that teaches their lifestyle is sinful? They are using their kid (and others) to push a controversial social agenda.

For every kid accepted in these schools, others are turned away.


13 posted on 03/14/2010 4:16:16 PM PDT by silverleaf ("Congress is America's only native criminal class."- Mark Twain)
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To: livius
You are exactly right.

Who do you think ran to the press?

I don't think we can assume that these ladies' motive is innocent or pure, as the "WWJD" crowd seem to think. "Oh, they are just trying to get their child a Catholic education." "Oh, they have tried and failed to live a moral life, and they want their child to have a better chance." "They just want their child to have the best education available." Etc. Etc. Etc.

It is textbook Alinsky tactics to infiltrate bourgeois institutions in order to destroy them. If the press had half the interest in this as a news story that they have in it as an occasion to bash the Catholic Church, they would have done a little background investigation on the women.

Odd are an enterprising reporter would quickly find their names associated with various "out and proud" organizations, signatories to letters-to-the-editor, petitions, etc.

But I don't think the reporters want to go there, because they are pushing an agenda just as much as these ladies are.

14 posted on 03/14/2010 5:09:05 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Furthermore, they come from Boulder. One of my daughters lives in Denver, and when I visit her, we occasionally go to Boulder - home of cute restaurants and raving, drooling, shrieking, lefty political flakes (because of the university, I assume).

Coors Brewery is located in Boulder, and ever since the attacks on Coors for its supposedly anti-gay position, the area has been a virtual magnet for aggressive gay organizations that want to mix it up. In addition, they all hate Archbishop Chaput, who has been charitable but quite firm in his orthodoxy on sexual matters. So I suppose this was bound to happen.


15 posted on 03/14/2010 5:46:02 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius

Well, it looks to me like I might not want to bet the ranch, but I’d bet a steak dinner that this was a deliberate provocation, with the press release already written out when the ladies went to the school with their “demands”.


16 posted on 03/14/2010 5:48:38 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: NYer

I have given this some thought, I believe the purpose of enrolling the child was to eventually bring a suit forcing Catholic schools not to teach the church doctrines on homosexuality.. they needed a test case..

I believe there is a way to offer Catholic education to the child and expose her to the teachings that homosexuality is immoral

Every Parent should have to sign a document on registration agreeing to the school teaching catholic doctrine and tradition on all sexual matters.. adultery, co habitation, fornication , homosexuality and divorce with NO exceptions.If the parent feels there might be an issue with teasing or with the teaching itself, then they would be required to make the decision to accept it or remove the child.

That would be a preemptive strike .. not singling out gays, but equally applied to all sexual sin

I am so sick of these gays pushing their sin down our throat ..


17 posted on 03/14/2010 6:36:11 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: SnakeDoctor

Exactly, SnakeDoc.


18 posted on 03/14/2010 7:17:41 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: NYer; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; Agitate; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Homosexual Agenda and Moral Absolutes Ping!

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FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search
[ Add keyword homosexual agenda to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

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Pinging both lists since this explains so well how, in this circumstance, the homosexual agenda seeps into other peoples' lives and infects them with immorality. One thing effects another, and so on. Just for example, if the two "mothers" came to a school event, the other children will ask their parents "Why does Karen (or whatever her name is) have two mothers? Where is her daddy?"

The parents would then have to talk to their children about homosexuality, and maybe they'd like to keep that topic alone until their child is older.

19 posted on 03/14/2010 9:38:14 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: NYer
It’s not the fact that the “parents” are sinners that makes it rational for the school to deny their children entrance. It is the fact that the nature of their public relationship is such that either the school would have to refrain from teaching the fullness of Christian doctrine regarding the nature of matrimony or tremendous problems would arise with a child in this situation in the student body.

Well stated.

20 posted on 03/15/2010 5:34:33 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: livius
People like that are very happy to sacrifice their children for their political ideals,

It was two lesbians who sued the Commonwealth of MA, and their case was the impetus for the Supremem Judicial Court to rule that the State MUST allow homosexuals to 'marry'. During their campaign FOR homosexual 'marriage', they trotted out their daughter every chance they got, using her to make a point about how important it was for them to be together, and to be a 'family'.

When they 'divorced' last year, they demanded that no media mention their daughter at all, because they wanted was privacy for her. So they could use her for their own purposes, but no one else was even to mention her.

21 posted on 03/15/2010 5:40:29 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ; livius

Thank you, Suzi, for that post. We need to pray for these women and their children.


22 posted on 03/15/2010 5:51:03 AM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer

What form of child abuse and harrassment could possibly be worse, and yet, the goal is to pander to the deviants in keeping with political correctness.


23 posted on 03/15/2010 6:30:03 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Freedom's Precious Metals: Gold, Silver and Lead))
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To: NYer

I’m not sure that is a good example.

I like the example of an drunk couple showing up to every function plastered and smelling of beer, or swingers showing up with their partners and telling their kids its okay.

In other words, it is impossible for this couple to not be flaunting their sin and bad example. Every time they even drop the kid off at school they will be exposing their violations of Christian beliefs and church law.


24 posted on 03/15/2010 6:30:39 AM PDT by NucSubs ( Cognitive dissonance: Conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between beliefs and actions)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Well put! I have to remember that!


25 posted on 03/15/2010 6:32:05 AM PDT by NucSubs ( Cognitive dissonance: Conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between beliefs and actions)
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To: RnMomof7

I totally agree with you. I was perplexed by those crying that denying the child admission would deprive her of a catholic upbringing. The denial of a catholic education/upbringing was being done by the mother. It is counterintuitive to think that the lesbian couple would permit the child to be taught that their lifestyle was disordered and immoral. It is ALWAYS about forcing the gay agenda down the throats of the Catholic church.


26 posted on 03/15/2010 6:36:33 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: NYer

You know, I’m not Catholic and have no desire to become one but I saw this for what it was: two people with an agenda, enrolling this child into the school as a prop for the express purpose of trying to force this Catholic school to cave in to the homosexual agenda and change their doctrine.

ENOUGH ALREADY!!! On the one hand, they want everyone “out of their bedrooms” yet they can’t resist shrieking about their bedrooms every chance they get!

It is great to see the Catholic church and this school stand strong against this nonsense. This is a private school with rules. Don’t like the rules? DON’T GO THERE! Simple solution for anyone possessing an ounce of common sense. But not so with folks driven by a godless agenda. Tiresome. Just plain tiresome!


27 posted on 03/15/2010 9:13:41 AM PDT by Sister_T (Socialism is covetousness, wearing a mask of "caring for the poor" ... Ephesians 5:5)
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To: NYer; SuziQ

Very interesting (if depressing) story.

I don’t know what it is about gays, and I do agree that we need to pray for them.


28 posted on 03/15/2010 2:25:18 PM PDT by livius
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To: NucSubs

They wouldn’t be exposing anything unless they’re making out in the car in front of the school. They could be two relatives, friends, roommates, whatever...nobody is going to ask unless they provide some reason to ask. And they obviously wanted to stir something up by doing just that.


29 posted on 03/15/2010 2:27:39 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius
I still think the mother and her whatever must have done something to call the attention of the school to their situation and make an issue of this.

Are there psychologically well balanced persons that are predisposed to and or choose to engage in homosexual sex? Maybe; however, they would be the exception -engaging in homosexual sex is self destructive behavior on both a societal and individual basis. How many homosexual gene pools would survive and procreate if isolated -zero!

Since, engaging in homosexual sex is a self destructive behavior, by default, the individuals practicing it recreationally are self destructive. There was a reason it was once classified objectively as a symptom of disorder -because it is disordered...

The homosexual agenda is focused on furthering an agenda of self destruction upon society -these lesbians were kicked to the curb for that very reason -they were intent on destroying something good and premised upon truth...

30 posted on 03/15/2010 6:54:06 PM PDT by DBeers ( †)
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To: livius

I understand your point, but disagree. There is no way they could hide that for long. Unless the child was too ashamed or whatever to talk eventually the kid’s...uhmm...unusual family life would be exposed.


31 posted on 03/16/2010 8:38:28 AM PDT by NucSubs ( Cognitive dissonance: Conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between beliefs and actions)
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