Posted on 03/28/2010 5:31:15 PM PDT by fkabuckeyesrule
Snow falls resolutely on a Saturday morning in Washington, but the festively lit basement of a church near the US Capitol is packed. Some 200 female members have invited an equal number of women for tea, cookies, conversation – and 16th-century evangelism.
(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...
Great! How far behind can witch trials be?
A rather long article but an intreresting take on Calvinism. I geuss some people will only ear cotton candy for so long and they desire solid food. Sadly, too many people just want to have their ears tickled by this prosperity gospel/jesus is my boyfriend crowd.
“– in essence, the Puritans, minus the breeches and powdered wigs. Is this just a moment of nostalgia or the beginning of a deeper revolt against the popular Jesus-is-our-friend approach of modern evangelicalism?”
Nonsense, breeches and powdered wigs are weekly features of our worship service. . . /s
And slap aside, indeed, Jesus is our Greatest Friend. Why would the author of this article assume otherwise???
That sure was an intelligent thought.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the elect that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever was chosen will receive belief and be saved.”
That is how it goes, isn’t it? According to Calvin, at least.
http://evangelicalarminians.org/Are_You_an_Arminian_and_Dont_Even_Know_It
In the 16th century, the Calvinists were burning Bible Christians at the stake.
No thanks.
or those misguided individuals from Saddleback Chuch in CA e.g., Rick Warren
??????????? I’m betting you know virtually nothing about Calvinist theology except what the liberal revision of history has taught you. (Just a guess.)
Don't forget their pets. The OPC encourages the Reformed to consider that their pets may accompany them to the Reformed Heaven. http://www.opc.org/cce/tracts/pet.html
I'm just at a loss to understand if the pets require Reformed beliefs, or only their owners...
Excellent post!
Oh! Please!
Catholicism began the practice of burning witches in Europe. Some in the Puritan communities in America HANGED them (not burned - that was done by Catholics in Europe.) Ironic that Catholicism is often absolved of any historical wrongdoing, but Calvinism is indicted for imaginary wrongs. Weird.
So were the Catholics and pretty much everybody else.
I judge based on the theology, not what some misguided men did in the name of their faith 500 years ago.
And for the record, you have Calvinists to thank for the American Revolution (along with the Deists).
The British called it the “Presbyterian Rebellion” as one nickname for a reason.
I’ll wait for Hobbsism if’n it is all the same with all y’all.
“Question: Where does our faith come from?”
Faith is defined as believing in something or someone. So if you believe God, you have faith. Then The Great Physician heals you, no payment required and Obamacare not accepted:
Mat 9:2 And behold, some people brought to him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.”
Mat 9:22 Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, “Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And instantly the woman was made well.
Mat 9:29 Then he touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith be it done to you.”
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.
Scripture-picking one verse to try to prove a point isn’t excellent at all.
You have to see the full context and let Scripture interpret Scripture.
And without the Calvinists, there would have been no need for an Amendment to the Constitution forbidding the establishment of a state religion (the Episcopalians were somehat guilty too, to be fair).
I grew up Christian Reformed, which is Calvinist in case you didn’t know. These are the most honest, hard-working ethical people I have ever known. They all helped shape me and make me the man I am today. People are getting sick of fluff, and maybe the herd is being culled. God Bless them!
Catholicism began the practice of burning witches in Europe. Some in the Puritan communities in America HANGED them (not burned - that was done by Catholics in Europe.) Ironic that Catholicism is often absolved of any historical wrongdoing, but Calvinism is indicted for imaginary wrongs. Weird.
haven’t been around anti-catholics very long, have you??We.ve been accused of every evil on earth since our inception, by Christ, 2,000 years ago. We’re doing fine, thank you.....Calvin was wrong then, and still is.
A God-centered gospel must return before true revival can come. This is good news.
I think it’s the crisis of our times. The biggest question: moral/structural/ethical relativity. The basis of Western philosophy is that right and wrong are natural (God-given) distinctions. For the social engineers it’s all relative. Our Constitution presumes a natural order of things on which we base our laws. For the Communists law is whatever the political boses say it is.
And you have Baptists to thank for that same Revolution. And for the fact that you even have a First amendment guaranteeing freedom of religion.
Calvinists burned "heretics" (real or imagined) at the stake in Europe. For instance, Calvin had Michael Servetus burned at the stake, and it took place elsewhere in Calvinist areas during the 16th century as well.
I am going to completely ignore what you are trying to do here and instead ask a different question.
What is salvation? Does it just mean you don’t go to hell?
Because that is what many modern evangelicals Christian think today, and boy does that miss the boat.....and leave out a lot of what God is doing in us every day.
Calvinism shows us that salvation is so much more and just how unworthy we are.
Salvation is not only something that happened when we came to faith in Christ. It’s something being done to us daily by the working of the Holy Spirit.
Every day our sinful nature is weakened ever more, even as it sometimes rears its ugly head. Every day we are just a little bit closer to seeing Christ face to face as our own lives become more tied to the Godhead by NOT ONLY turning away from sin but TURNING TO GOD to a greater and greater degree. Every day our citizenship is already becoming more and more that of the other world even as we serve Christ here. Every day we have the opportunity to live more and more as Christ did so we can show the love of Christ to others and spread the Word about what He has done and is still doing for us. Every day through our covenant families in marriage, with our kids etc....we get to experience the wonderful unity of the Godhead just a little bit more and at the same time grow in our own faith and together to expand the glorious kingdom of Jesus Christ.
That’s salvation, and it is a heck of a lot more than just that time when you accepted Jesus into your heart to escape damnation. It grieves me greatly that so many don’t get this.
I can’t count how many people I talk to who act as if salvation happened for them 10 years ago and that’s it. No, you were saved at that point, but Scripture says to work it out with fear and trembling and that the God who began a good work in you will complete it.
THAT’s GOOD NEWS!!!! That’s worth shouting and living for God for. Honestly, if all you think is you were saved FROM something, how much do you really know God?
God saved us FROM HELL and TO LIVE FOR HIM and GROW.
We were saved, are being saved and will be saved in the future as God works us into the people we are meant to be.
BULL. Exactly backwards. Click my screen name and scroll half-way down the page.
Mr. Rogers,
The demons believe and tremble, so says Scripture.
is that all faith is to you...just believing?
Sir, faith is so much more deep, an intimate relationship with a wonderful God who has done so much for us it is hard to put it into words lest you fall apart from weeping.
Faith is not just belief....it’s trust and relationship.
Remember, Christ said to follow him, not just believe him when he said who he was.
True. What we need to understand is that all that stuff about the Puritans coming to the New World "for religious freedom" is bilious nonsense. They weren't interested in religious freedom for anyone but themselves. Likewise with the other Calvinistic groups that were found in the colonies. The Puritans were the ones who persecuted, whipped, fined, assized, and exiled those who stood for individual soul liberty, such as Roger Williams, Obadiah Holmes, and others.
In North Carolina, for instance, the Presbyterians persecuted Bible Christians all the way up until the time they were forcibly restrained from doing so by the First Amendment. Indeed, here in my area of North Carolina, the Presbyterians were very big supporters of the British Crown, and had a hand in hunting down the defeated Regulators (pre-Revolution tax revolters who were partially supported by the Baptists in the name of liberty). One of the main reasons they did so was so they could stick it to the Baptists as "re-baptisers."
Frankly, it goes back a lot to the erroneous eschatology of Calvinists, and the deluded notions entertained by covenant theology.
Lots of different kinds of Calvinists these days.
Some of them are right.
you would rather believe in your Jack Van Impe eschatology that is barely 100 years old?
and to be honest, I don’t have a position on the end times really....pre-mid-post.
But, if I decide on a position, it will be one based on what has actual standing in historic Christianity.
If it was good enough for Papias, it’s good enough for me.
Besides, what matters is a right understanding of what the Bible says, which is something that covenant theologians and amillenialists don’t have. Sorry, but “spiritualising” everything inconvenient to their eschatology, which is what Calvinists typically do to make it fit, doesn’t cut it.
Aside from the Baptism point, traditional Baptists uphold the quite Calvinistic 1689 confession of faith.
That's a shame. Maybe you should let the Bible be the basis for your decision instead?
One particular set of Particular Baptists do, yes. Baptists in general let the Bible, not a "confession", decide their theology.
Speaking of the baptism issue, it amazes me how so many Reformed types hold to baby sprinkling while completely failing to understand how it is actually a contradiction to the doctrines of grace they claim to uphold.
If you knew Calvinism, you would know Sola Scriptura.
Scripture is the basis for all.
My wife grew up Baptist. We went to her church quite a bit while dating. The pastor was a great guy, but I missed so much the Scripture-saturated preaching I see in Calvinist circles. Scripture is all about Christ, and every sermon comes back to Christ. Yeah, they had the altar call, but where was Christ in the SERMON? It was all about self-help stuff, and we visited plenty of other Baptist churches and got the same.
It’s much different when you go to a real Reformed church.
At the same time, this doesn’t mean you can figure it all out on your own. If you say you understand Revelation just by reading it, you mistake.
You read it and pray for understanding by the Holy Spirit...and look to historic Christianity for guidance. Not the final say, but guidance.
I did. Nothing magic happened. What was supposed to happen?
In the meantime, consider this: a state Church was by law established in Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, Georgia, and the southern counties of New York; Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire. This was what was going on at the time of the Revolution. Baptists and Quakers and Catholics were persecuted in one form or another, with Catholic persecution enjoying several different revivals since. It took 20 years and the influence of Rhode Island and Maryland for the amendment to pass. The Puritans were particularly nasty - their settlements in Massachussets resembled Geneva under Calvin in their control and oppression.
The 1689 Confession and the Westminster which preceded it are both self consciously subject to, and based upon scripture. Not only that, they both assert the principle of sola scriptura.
The instant we even try to discuss a passage or concept in the Bible, we are talking theology. Therefore, it is not only reasonable but necessary to have a confession that handles topically the major tenets of the faith.
Could you explain this further?
Servetus was condemned by Catholicism as well as Protestants. He denied the trinity. Not sure how this qualifies him as a
“Bible believing Christian”. I had thought you were referring to the witch trials in America since a previous poster made reference to that. My response was to that — i.e. there was no burning of “witches” in this country. There WAS, however, burning by Catholics done in Europe. My post was in reference to that. However, if one is to condemn Calvinist theology not on what it believes but on the way it acts, one is obligated to do the same for Catholicism: whose historical persecutions of non-Catholics is very well documented. That is my other point.
It’s good to know that the Christian Science Monitor is listening to the pulse of Christendom.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils...” 1 Timothy 4:1
“Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - ‘great falling away’] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition...” 2 Thess 2:1,3
And then of course there is the whole of Matthew 24.....we are living in the last days and the devil is working had to deceive many who call themselves believers.
This is evidence of that.
Confessions arose out of the desire to interpret Scripture and explain it to people.
I am honestly a bit concerned by your “go it alone” attitude toward Scripture here.
I am not Catholic, but the idea that you ignore Confessions is disconcerting. They are subordinate to Scripture obviously, as the Bible is the final authority.
But, they are a nice way to explain what is going on in Scripture itself.
you have to admit - Servetus kind of asked for it by taunting Calvin
King James (of the KJV fame) boasted about running them out of England because of their nasty behaviours. Liberal Holland couldn't stand them either. Thrown out of England and Holland both, where else might they go?
Likewise with the other Calvinistic groups that were found in the colonies. The Puritans were the ones who persecuted, whipped, fined, assized, and exiled those who stood for individual soul liberty, such as Roger Williams, Obadiah Holmes, and others.
There is quite a list - they hated the Quakers as well.
In North Carolina, for instance, the Presbyterians persecuted Bible Christians all the way up until the time they were forcibly restrained from doing so by the First Amendment. Indeed, here in my area of North Carolina, the Presbyterians were very big supporters of the British Crown, and had a hand in hunting down the defeated Regulators (pre-Revolution tax revolters who were partially supported by the Baptists in the name of liberty). One of the main reasons they did so was so they could stick it to the Baptists as "re-baptisers."
That's because Zwingli had to go and get himself killed and anyway didn't have the presence of Luther and the power of Calvin to start his groups off on a strong footing - breaking with the Anabaptists was not the political thing to do. The Presbyterians were strong in Scotland, which had recently reconciled with England (under James VI who became James I of England), and brought that strength to the States. Frankly, it goes back a lot to the erroneous eschatology of Calvinists, and the deluded notions entertained by covenant theology.
I particularly am amused by the idea that nothing is anybody's fault.
You do realize there have been false believers for all of time. So, just what level is “bad” enough to know we are in the “last days.”
200
2000
200,000
2 million?
what’s your number? :)
For the record, there were more Calvinists in the past.
Does that mean we all weren’t raptured and the end already came?
A God-centered gospel must return before true revival can come. This is good news.
the God centered bible has always been here.....drop in to your local Catholic church.....don’t talk...listen, and you will hear more biblical references than you will ever hear in a protestant church
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