Skip to comments.Vanity: Is it just me or is anyone else seeing Ezekiel 38-39 shaping up??
Posted on 04/10/2010 11:52:10 AM PDT by Anti-Hillary
Has anyone else read "Ezekiel Option" by Joel Rosenberg?? While I KNOW scripture will unfold EXACTLY as God fortold, it seems as though God has given Rosenberg a true gift. I can't help but think with the nuke treaty, this plane crash, they way Obama is turning his back on Israel, etc. that we are on the precepise of something HUGE and that it may be unfolding very close to what Rosenberg wrote. Rosenberg is not the authority, God's word is, but I really feel God has given him the gift to take scripture and current events and tie them together. Does anyone else see this?? What are your thoughts???
Yes. I’ve been watching that for awhile.
I’ve noticed Ezekiel 38 and 39 taking shape for several years now.
I know that in the book the plane that goes down is a Russian one , but this plane in Poland and all the stuff going on this week with the treaty has me really thinking.
Just so I am clear, I am not in any fear. It just is so surreal the be living in the time of the second coming (IMO) and actually seeing it come to pass.
BTW, let’s open this discussion to everyone laying out what you think you see, in light of scripture and current events. IOW, connect the possible dots.
Psalm 83 comes in the equation somewhere...
Rather than humbling themselves before the Great Deliverer, admitting that no enemy was a match for Him, and that all proud adversaries to His Kingdom must fall -- these miserable and contemptible miscreants immediately scurried around, desperately seeking other antichrist candidates to cower/grovel before.
At this point in history, there are two global enemies to the gospel: Islam, and America's state religion of secular humanism. Both have an appointment with God behind the woodshed of history. I fear that the contemptible ingrates who ignored His victory over communism will provoke His wrath. Perhaps, in annoyance at our Christian fatalistic doomsayers, He will destroy America's reigning ideology first.
Wise Christians undermine secular humanism by refusing to participate in the American state church. They refuse to render unto Caesar that which is God's -- the children entrusted to their care. Their kids don't show up in public schools, those kiddie penal colonies.
Wise Christians also pray for the fall of Islam, and study Arabic, Turkish, or Farsi so that, when that day comes, and a billion people wonder what to do next, they'll be ready with answers.
Foolish Christians continue reading their tea leaves, using God's Word for a Ouija board, and always seeing therein the message that pleases Satan most: that God has ordained the world-wide triumph of evil.
Forgive me if I decline their kind invitation to become an unpaid cheerleader for the devil's team. God is at work around the world. I want to be in on what He is up to. Not contaminating His people with fatalistic despair and impotence.
Be afraid, very afraid.
That’s all I have to say.
Read Revelations 3:3
Wise up and stop being such a fatalist.
If the book says a Russian plane, then this must not be it, I would think.
In 1970, the really serious Christians all "knew" that the parousia would happen within the next few years. You think THIS is surreal? You obviously weren't around when the Jesus Freaks roamed the landscape!
Bad theology is a harsh taskmaster. A faulty document of healing has claimed the lives of young diabetics, when their parents, by faith, withheld their insulin. Your rancid, wretched, rotten eschatology transforms folks who love Jesus into cheerleaders for Satan's team. Take your stupid short-run perspective really seriously, and you can't take on long-term projects, such your vocation, marriage, or education.
In the surreal hysteria of the apocalyptic fanatics, anything that takes more than a week to achieve is too trivial to take seriously.
So how is that Farsi,Arabic, and Turkish coming along, oh wise one?
I am not a religious person as such. I don’t go to church.
I don’t know the Bible that much but I feel in my heart that we are headed toward the final destination and God wants all his children to come unto him.
I don’t have any proof but this is just what I feel.
"Earthquakes in diverse places"
I’m the same, but I feel the opposite is true.
To me yes these things are going to happen. Prophecy will certainly be fulfilled. However, if a person does the best they can, to live as God wants-ie following the teachings of Christ to the best of our ability- that puts a person in a position of spiritual safety.
Now do I want to live when the Savior comes again? Yes- that would really be something. Do I want to live to see and perhaps survive the evil that will be here beforehand? Not so much.
But we are living in momentous times. So best we be prepared as much as we can be.
Slowly, my friend, and thanks for the kind compliment! Wisdom is the first thing on my list to pray for, day after day. I'm on my fourth trip through the Turkish New Testament, and blogging the adventure at this site. I can read the NT fairly comfortably now, but a Turkish technical manual is still out of reach. Motivating my girls to study Turkish with me is a real challenge, even though they cherish our family's Turkish friends!
I'd appreciate your prayers for my dissertation -- the underlying goal is to build a bridge to the Christian faith for Turkish Muslims.
SHALOM upon your house, as you seek to serve our King!
So come to God...and don’t foresake the gathering of the brethren, you’ll find strength and support with them in these trying days. If you feel in your heart God is calling his children, perhaps you need to come to terms with the fact that He is calling You personally as well....just say yes to the cross, yes to the blood spilled for you, yes to His resurrecting power!
Well it was a Tupolev. Russian manufacture.
The plane itself WAS a Russian plane - a Tupolev Tu - 154.
I’ve always trusted that no matter how the world looks at the moment, God’s prophetic word will be fulfilled. And it certainly looks more plausible than ever at the current moment. I wonder how many Believers thought that the Holocaust and Nazi rule was a prelude to the end times? I must admit, however, that for the past year or so, I have revisited Ezekiel 38 MANY times. And until now, I guess that American Christians have been “so vain that they probably thought this book (Bible) was about them.” But we are not indispensable.
Jesus fulfilled the first 4 feasts in his first coming and He will fulfill the remaining 3 in His second!
I heard on Fox this morning that the plane was made in Russian.
It is written we have been given a spirit of faith not fear....
So it has become wisdom for you to seek the thing that God has desired You to do... that is a blessed thing...
For others, studying the Turkish languages may not be the thing God would have them do...seeking the thing God would have each of us do, is the practise of wisdom.
You make a point, about being stuck in eschatology in such a way as to not focus on the tasks at hand such as winning people to Christ. But I wouldn’t dismiss eschatology out of hand. Biblical prophecies were put there to spur us to action, that the times are growing short but that also(in support of your points) the end would not come until all the nations have had the gospel preached to them....
Ezekiel 37-39 is coming...all of the prophecies will happen. However, as I read about how Christ came upon the scene and how who he was not what was traditionally expected of the Messiah, I have to wonder if the unfolding of Biblical prophecy will also happen in ways that the “traditionalists” were not expecting...(God’s ways are not man’s ways)
Consider also Daniel 8:25..
“..these miserable and contemptible miscreants immediately scurried around, desperately seeking other antichrist candidates to cower/grovel before.” ~ RJR_fan
Hey - I want to help!!!
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For many years we have been following the conventional view of Ezekiel 38 and 39, the ill-fated invasion attempt of Magog and its allies, notably Iran. With the growing tensions between Iranas an ostensible nuclear powerand Israel, these passages are the subject of much current discussion and debate.
However, the conventional view still leaves a number of puzzling inconsistencies and contradictions. Ezekiel 38 indicates that Israel is dwelling safely and without walls. Yet, when we visit there we are confronted with a 430-mile-long wall 25 feet high. And being shelled continually with hundreds of missiles from both the Hamas and Hezbollah is hardly dwelling safely.
It is also significant to notice that the motivation of the invasion attempt by Magog and its allies is to take spoil: gold, silver, cattle and goods.(1) The Ezekiel account also includes participants from distant lands.
This leaves us with a puzzling anomaly: the players listed in Ezekiel seem to exclude any of the bordering nations: Where are the Palestinians? The Lebanese? The Syrians? The Iraqis? The Jordanians? The Egyptians? The Saudi Arabians? (Sheba and Dedan only appear as spectators rather than as participants!)
It is extremely provocative to contrast the attackers of Ezekiel 38 with the participants described in Psalm 83, which details immediate neighboring combatants. Furthermore, they also have a distinctively different agenda than the parties in the Ezekiel account:
Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God. For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: (Psalm 83:1-5)
This appears to be a significant difference from the motivation of Magog and his allies, which is to take spoil. These combatants are the immediate neighbors, which continue to harass and torment Israel today and are unabashedly committed to wiping Israel off the map!
Furthermore, the specific players highlighted here are nearby, and not the ones included in the Ezekiel account:
The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah. (Psalm 83:6-8)
Many may be surprised that the identity of the Tents of Edom includes the Palestinians of today. This is a topic which will be treated in a separate follow-up article, tracing the origin of the "olam ebah"the Everlasting Hatredfrom the womb of Esau and Jacob, and Esaus contempt of the covenant birthright, to Esaus spiteful intermarriage with the Ishmaelites, continuing the everlasting hatred to this very day.(2) As the Babylonians took Judah into captivity, the Edomites (Idumeans in Greek), under pressure from the Nabateans in the east, moved west and established their own Idumea encompassing Hebron and environs.
The other members of the Confederation can be easily identified with any good concordance or Bible Handbook. (They are also explored in detail in our featured briefing pack, see page 8 of April 2010 Newsletter from www.khouse.org.)
Do unto them as unto the Midianites; as to Sisera, as to Jabin, at the brook of Kison: Which perished at Endor: they became as dung for the earth. Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna: Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession. Psalm 83:9-12
In pleading for the destruction of their current enemies, the Psalmist appeals to the God of Israel to do just as He did in their historical victories of the past.
O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind. As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountain on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD. Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish: Psalm 83:13-17
The Judgment against Edom is mentioned in more Old Testament books than it is against any other foreign nation: (3) (Again, the origin, identity, and destiny of Edom will be subject of subsequent articles.)
All the members of the Confederacy detailed in Psalm 83 are Muslims. Each of them is the subject of specific judgments which are detailed in Ezekiel 25 through 32. However, the principal issue of the entire episode is to make a specific point:
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth. Psalm 83:18
His name alone is Jehovah, not Allah, the moon-god. And the Abrahamic Covenant has not been repealed! If this view is correct, it suggests a very dramatic prelude to the events of Ezekiel 38.
Order of Events?
1. Israel is regathered in the Land (Ezek 37:12; Isa 11:11,12; Deut 30:3-5).
2. Ancient cities are rebuilt and inhabited (Ezek 36:1-5, 8-10).
3. They meet Muslim/Arab resistance (Jer 49:16; Zeph 2:8; Ezek 25:12; 32:5; 36:2; Obad 1:10).
4. Israel establishes an army for defensesee also #10 (Ezek 36:6,7;38:8).
5. Adjacent Muslim nations Confederate (Ps 83:1-8).
6. The Confederacy is committed to the destruction of Israel (Ps 83:1-5, 12).
7. War starts between the Confederacy and Israel (Jer 49:2, 8, 19).
8. Title regained: My people Israel (Hos 1:8-10; Rom 9:25,26; Ezek 36:8-12).
9. Israel decisively defeats the Confederacy (Obad 1:9, 18; Ezek 25:13,14; Jer 49:10,20,21, 23-26; Isa 11:12-14;17:1; 19:16,17).
10. Israel has become an exceedingly great army (Ezek 37:10; Jer 49:21).
11. Israel takes prisoners of war (Jer 48:46,47; 49:3,6,11; Zeph 2:10,11).
12. The Region is reshaped (Isa 17:1; Jer 49:2, 10; Zeph 2:4).
13. Israel expands its borders (Obad 1:19; Jer 49:2; Isa 19:18,19).
14. Israel dwells securely in the Land (Ezek 38:10-12).
This, then, would seem to set the stage for the subsequent events of Ezekiel 38 and 39. If this view is correct, there may be a huge surprise ready to unfold that will totally restructure the Middle East!
The only certain barrier to truth is the presumption you already have it. Our challenge is to keep an open mind and study diligently, continually reexamining the numerous presuppositions that tend to blind us all. We are, indeed, entering one of the most exciting times in the history of the Planet Earth! May the Holy Spirit be your personal guide as you continue your treasure hunt of searching the Holy Scriptures to prove that these things are so!
So, yes, the Gog-Magog war is getting close, but something has to happen first to make Israel feel safe enough to take down the wall they have been building around the country. Some think that event will be the Psalm 83 war, which hasn't been fulfilled yet but appears to be about to happen with each passing day, and others are of the opinion that the Ezekiel war will take place after the Antichrist signs the seven-year peace pact between Israel and the nations, which would also make Israel feel safe.
At any rate, we know God said all these things will happen, and we see all the players in these events beginning to take their places on the prophetic stage and so we can say with all confidence that these events are very near to being fulfilled.
An interesting article, the first paragraph of which is chilling in light of Bible prophecy and Israel's feeling "safe" and "secure".
Could you identify this documentation? I have read the entire cannon of the Anti-Nicean Fathers and found nothing resembling what you describe.
I thought I heard early that it was a Russian plane. Anyone else hear that?
Every year of human history has always seemed like it was on the precipice of “something big”. That’s how prophecies work.
About 200 nuclear weapons in various strengths and designed tasks could be considered potent regional restructuring tools...just saying
Israel’s Sampson option!
Yes, Jesus said to the Church at Sardis “ if therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee” (Rev 3:3). Conversely then, the passage implies that there will be those that are watching and that they would know when Jesus was coming. Jesus confirms this with His message to the church at Philadelphia. Jesus said, He will deliver them from the trial that comes on everyone on the earth because they were faithful and watching (Rev 3:10).
Why tell believers to look up when you see the signs if there is nothing to see (Lk 21:28)? Hebrews tells us not to forsake the assembling together and so much more as you see the day approaching (Heb 10:25). If we cannot see the day approaching, what is the point of this passage saying that we can? Elijah knew when the Lord was coming to take him to Heaven and also told Elisha.
Paul also tells us the Church would know the times and seasons: SEE vs. 4 explicitly. Notice the first word, BUT. This denotes a new truth is being brought forth. Also, see vs. 6 in which we are commanded to WATCH!!!
1 Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
We are COMMANDED to watch and apply prophecy to the world around us! I shall do just that! And I shall do it not NOT because I revel in the wrath that will be poured out, but rather I rejoice that evil will be conquered once and for all and for those that believe, we shall rule and reign with Jesus Christ forever!!! Rev.22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
Yes, the certainly could, and many prophecy students believe that Isaiah 17 could be fulfilled as Psalm 83 is occurring.
“Sorry my friend, but I have spent WAY to much time applying scripture upon scripture and and having truth revealed to me by the Holy Spirit ..” ~ Anti-Hillary
‘It doesn’t take very long to realize that a thorough understanding of the Bible — and this would actually apply to any complex work from any culture — requires specialized knowledge, and a broad range of specialized knowledge in a variety of fields.
Obviously the vast majority of believers spend their entire lives doing little more than reading the Bible in English (or whatever native tongue) and importing into its words whatever ideas they derive from their own experiences. This process is very often one of “decontextualizing” — what I have here called “reading it like it was written yesterday and for you personally.” ....
Let’s anticipate and toss off the obvious objection: “Why did God make the Bible so hard to understand, then?”
It isn’t — none of this keeps a person from grasping the message of the Bible to the extent required to be saved; where the line is to be drawn is upon those who gratuitously assume that such base knowledge allows them to be competent critics of the text, and make that assumption indifferent to their own lack of knowledge — what I have elsewhere spoken of in terms of being “unskilled and unaware of it.”
And is my observation to this effect justified? Well, ask yourself this question after considering what various fields of knowledge a complete and thorough (not to say sufficient for intelligent discourse, though few even reach that pinnacle, especially in the critical realm) study of the Bible requires:
Linguistics/language — indeed three languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Criticizing the Bible in English is a hallmark of critics, who must inevitably resort to one of several excuses: “The translators obviously thought this was good enough, so that settles it.”
It never occurs to them to ask why a certain translation choice was made, or to make a critical study of the word in question as needed; in a most extreme case — veteran readers know to whom I refer — we have persons who think that it is impossible for there to be any new insights into ancient languages, and will openly reject out of hand any more recent study suggesting a word or words have a more nuanced or different meaning than the chosen English word.
It is also wrong to assume that even the matched English word can be vested with the same contextual significance as the original word — any bilingual can attest that there are plenty of examples between languages of words that do not adequately capture all nuances when they are used to translate another word.
Literature — One prominent critic advises people to “read the Bible like a newspaper.” That is absolutely the worst advice that can be given for reading any text that isn’t a newspaper. The genres of the Bible include narrative, poetry, proverbial literature, wisdom discourse, a treaty (that’s what Deuteronomy is), legal codes, genealogies, biography (that is what the Gospels are), personal letters and general letters, rhetoric (an art form in the ancient world), riposte, and apocalyptic.
Treating each one as a newspaper — written yesterday and with our own ideas in mind — is a mistake constantly made by critics who impose their own genre-demands on the text.
Textual criticism — this is a specialized field of determining the original state of a text.
Archaeology — a field with many sub-fields of it’s own, which may involve knowledge of geography, geology or chemistry.
Psychology — the study of human behavior, essential to understanding the motives of persons in a text; yet most people do not even have basic knowledge of their own psychology. This aspect is complicated by the variance in human behavior we note in our next entry:
Social sciences — it is in this field that we have found the most lack among critics, and not much less of it in others. It would shock the average Christian to be told such things as that: persons in the world of the Bible did not have what we would call an internal conscience; or that Biblical society was heavily focused on honor, much like Japan’s culture.
No, most assume that people everywhere and at every time have been pretty much the same. That’s one of the biggest mistakes a critic can make.
Logic — most critics think they have a handle on this one; but most have done little more than memorize the names of a few fallacies, and then look for them everywhere they go. Sadly this is the one area in which people are mostly “unskilled and unaware of it” — or else, they presume that this is all they need, and never bother to study in any other area.
Miscellaneous — I may think of more later, but as a catch-all, for example, you may have to learn a bit about biology (for example, if someone says the Bible teaches wrongly about the ostrich’s living habits) or other areas.
That’s quite a list, but there’s one more note to add — the holistic ability to put all of it together. How serious is this? Very. A carefully crafted argument about a text being an interpolation can be undermined by a single point from Greco-Roman rhetoric. A claim having to do with psychology can be destroyed by a simple observation from the social sciences.
Not even most scholars in the field can master every aspect — what then of the non-specialist.... Should they be recognized as authorities?
No, they deserve calculated contempt for their efforts. By this, I do not mean emotional or behavioral contempt, but a calculated disregard for their work from an academic perspective. They have not even come close to deserving our attention. .....
So, in closing: Don’t take any critic’s word in an age when any person with typing skills can post a website claiming just about anything. Chances are they haven’t done a fraction of the homework they need to do to be a reputable commentator. -JPH Here: http://www.tektonics.org/af/calcon.html
Prophetic Scripture fulfilled on Free Republic!
I've read each of these many, many times and find absolutely nothing suggesting a pretrib rapture or a 7 year period of tribulation. Nothing. The only thing the article brings up are the "works" of Pseudo Ephraem. Nobody knows who this was or when these works were written. There is nothing persuasive to suggest he was an early father of the Church. The first anybody ever heard of him in a dispensational context was when Grant Jeffrey brought him up. Further, Chapter 20 of Revelation makes it clear the battle of Gog/Magog referred to in Ezekiel occurs at the end the Millennium which just doesn't fit in with the dispensationalist construct.
WHAT????? I do not mock God!!! I am not scoffing at His return or the fact that it has not yet happened. When He returns is going to happen at a time that is pre-determined since the begining of time. If He returns in my lifetime or He does not, is of no consequence to me. It is not the thing on which my faith hinges!!! I don’t understand how asking if others see what I think I see (and I am always aware that I could be WAY wrong in that regard) is mocking God???
I wasn’t referring to you, dear.
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