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Nifonging the Catholic Church
me ^ | April 18, 2010 | vanity

Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne

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To: Judith Anne

There’s no going back from accusations of this kind. Reputations are ruined.

I remember in high school and college the “banner” saying was that women don’t lie about being raped. Children don’t lie about being abused/molested. Sure they do. And, false accusations screw over real victims and ruin lives of innocent people.

And those who charge false claims don’t seem to suffer any public or court reprecussions. I don’t recall that Duke accuser being charged with anything or suffering in any way for trying to ruin the lives of 3 good guys, for costing them and their families millions of dollars in legal fees. She didn’t serve any jail time.

Last I checked, it was innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution has to prove guilt.

Yeah, he dodged a huge one there. Stood strong and threw it right back at her. All these years later, the kid is 17, almost 18, and has a good relationship with her Dad and her Mom.


51 posted on 04/19/2010 12:22:39 AM PDT by Twink
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To: Twink

Didn’t we all know that banner was a lie when we first saw it? I can’t remember what happened to Potipher’s wife, the one who accused Joseph in the OT, but it seems to me there was punishment of some kind...


52 posted on 04/19/2010 12:31:25 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: goat granny

My parents taught me the same thing.

My Dad was a firefighter and most males on my paternal side were firefighters or cops.

Back as early as the 70s, from what I recall, my Dad was yelling at the TV, saying the news media was going to get us all killed, screw over America, etc.


53 posted on 04/19/2010 12:36:42 AM PDT by Twink
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To: Judith Anne

The alleged victims are Catholic

The alleged perpetrators are Catholic

The alleged cover-ups were allegedly done by Catholics

The alleged culture was Catholic

The alleged decisions to move the priests around was Catholic

The payouts (they’re not alleged) have been Catholic.

What is it- twenty some dioceses in bankruptcy over this? A billion plus dollars or some such figure. And that’s just in the US?

Oh, and the blind defense is by.....wait for it.... Catholics!

Those dastardly clever Protestants.

Nifonging?

Really?

More like Marion Berrying- “The B**** set me up. The B**** set me up.”

In any organization the size of the Catholic church, there are going to be rogue people. And in any larger society there are going to be others with an axe to grind.

I don’t doubt that many who are attacking Catholicism are doing so with malice aforethought.

The thing that concerns me is the number of Catholics who take the “Move along, nothing to see here”, attitude.

Having ears they would not hear, having eyes they would not see.

Protestants left the Catholic church for selling indulgences to its rank and file. Today, the rank and file give indulgences back to Her, in the form of denial and blind defense.

You said, “And how many anti-Catholic bigots here walk hand in glove with those Obama-worshipping toadies?”

I’m sure I’m identified as one of the anti-Catholic bigots. It’s not true, but that shouldn’t matter. I assure you I don’t walk hand in glove with Obama worshiping toadies, but I have been walking foot in BS from people who continue to defend the indefensible here on Free Republic.

Oh, and as I’ve said many times- I’m not one of those who believe priestly celibacy is the problem here- it’s priestly UNcelibacy that the church needs to be concerned with.

Will Wallace


54 posted on 04/19/2010 12:41:38 AM PDT by will of the people
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To: Twink
***My parents taught me the same thing. My Dad was a firefighter and most males on my paternal side were firefighters or cops.***

You and I were blessed to have the wise fathers we had....

55 posted on 04/19/2010 12:57:31 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: Judith Anne
“Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!”

It's not drunken prostitutes that accused the priests, it's the victims, children at the time of rape and abuse, that accuse.

And many of the guilty priests were defended and protected by their bishops and confidentiality agreements when settlements were made.

And don't forget the victims that went public were not anti-Catholic bigots.

Yes indeed, vast shame on those who harmed the innocent!

56 posted on 04/19/2010 12:59:04 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

“...children at the time of rape and abuse,”

Teens. If you call teens “children” then I guess so. Have you ever heard of ephebephilia?

You can hammer that all day long if you want. I cannot tell everything I know, but I can say there are teens who don’t care who they have sex with, who exploit sick, perverted adults for power, money, and drugs, just as they exploit others younger than they are for power and sex.

You likely have no familiarity with the ugly homosexual subculture. I have a fair amount of experience with these people as a nurse on psych and as AIDS patients. And talk to some people in law enforcement to get a fuller picture.

I am a Catholic parent, so was my husband. If any Church authority figure had EVER harmed one of my children, we’d be in jail for murder, not behind closed doors with a lawyer angling for his fee and a big payout. I absolutely do not trust most of the so-called victims.


57 posted on 04/19/2010 1:24:28 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: will of the people
The alleged victims are Catholic

And most of them are broke, druggie homosexuals who are looking for bucks, and who know which priests are vulnerable.

The alleged perpetrators are Catholic

Yes, part of the lavendar mafia, or gay men looking for a respectable sinecure where their lack of female companionship will enable them to hide their prediliction.

The alleged cover-ups were allegedly done by Catholics

The parents of the so-called "victims" who couldn't accept that their sons were homosexual, and who needed someone to blame for their sons' perversion besides themselves or "Uncle Bill"?

The alleged culture was Catholic

Yes, and people weren't stupid. They knew it was the gay subculture, and it made them sick, so they hushed it up.

The alleged decisions to move the priests around was Catholic

The medical authorities said the ephebephiles were cured.

Do you know how much money Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have blackmailed businesses to get? Do you really think that because a person is guilty of something, they have to do more than pay the civil penalty? Payouts were a big mistake. The bastards who genuinely hurt actual children should have gone to jail. The Church should never have paid a dime.

And if you think this is a blind defense, then you are as ignorant as I think you are.

58 posted on 04/19/2010 1:37:19 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: count-your-change
And don't forget the victims that went public were not anti-Catholic bigots.

No, they were angling for money, and had dirty lawyers who cared more about getting a large fee than knowing the truth of the situation: that the victims mostly weren't.

59 posted on 04/19/2010 1:39:50 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne

You said, “And if you think this is a blind defense, then you are as ignorant as I think you are.”

For the record, I’m as ignorant as you think I am.

Will Wallace


60 posted on 04/19/2010 2:02:30 AM PDT by will of the people (Empathizing with broke druggie homosexuals who victimize vulnerable priests.)
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To: Judith Anne
“You can hammer that all day long if you want. I cannot tell everything I know, but I can say there are teens who don’t care who they have sex with, who exploit sick, perverted adults for power, money, and drugs, just as they exploit others younger than they are for power and sex.”

Priests confessed to being habitual sexual predators on not just teens but even on children as young as seven years old.

But now it’s the children that enticed the perverted clerics into sin? I’ve heard pedophiles claim that their victims enticed them but I thought the foolishness of such an arguement would be obvious. Guess not.

61 posted on 04/19/2010 2:04:31 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

You are willfully ignoring that these were not CHILD victims, they were teens. You evidently did not read my post.

I have never blamed a raped child for ANYTHING. But teens, every day, commit crimes up to and including murder, in order to gain money, drugs, power, sexual gratifications, etc. Are you one of those who call the Columbine murderers “children”?

Yet, teens do exploit adults to get what they want. Exploiting gay men for money, power, drugs, and sexual satisfaction is a common occurance. I’m not blaming VICTIMS, I’m blaming the deviant homosexual subculture.


62 posted on 04/19/2010 2:09:19 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: count-your-change
But now it’s the children that enticed the perverted clerics into sin? I’ve heard pedophiles claim that their victims enticed them but I thought the foolishness of such an arguement would be obvious. Guess not.

Please. Ephebophiles. TEENS. It's not a foolish argument, it's reality. If you're going to bash the Church, do so from a position of REALITY. In case you've forgotten, we send CHILDREN (young adults) into war.

A definition: (From wikipedia, but it's accurate)

Because most late adolescents have physical characteristics near (or in other cases, identical) to that of full-grown adults, some level of sexual attraction to persons in the age group is common among adults of all sexual orientations.[6] The term ephebophilia is used only to describe the preference for mid-to-late adolescent sexual partners, not the mere presence of some level of sexual attraction. Such a distinct preference for individuals in mid or late adolescence is not generally regarded by psychologists as a pathology when it does not interfere with other major areas of one's life. Ephebophilia is not listed by name as a mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR), or the ICD-10, nor is it listed as a paraphilia. This is as opposed to pedophilia, which is categorized as a specific disorder in those systems with its own diagnostic criteria. However, ephebophilia can sometimes be diagnosed as a disorder if it results in dysfunction or exploitative behavior, either under the DSM specification 309.2, "Paraphilia Not Otherwise Specified", or under the ICD-10 F65.8 "Other disorders of sexual preference".[14][15]

63 posted on 04/19/2010 2:18:08 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne

Okay, I just figured it out.

You’re like one of the tea party infiltrators that want to exaggerate the least desirable qualities of the defenders of the Catholic church in this, aren’t you?

What a hoot- you really had me going there for a minute or two.

Will Wallace


64 posted on 04/19/2010 2:20:34 AM PDT by will of the people (Empathizing with broke druggie homosexuals who victimize vulnerable priests.)
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To: will of the people

Name-calling does not bolster whatever argument you were making.

It’s time to stop coddling these middle-aged homosexuals who want to exploit the Church financially, who remember that Father so and so from 20-30-years ago was gay, and who think they can get a million dollar plus payout and a wad of sympathy from gullible folks like you.


65 posted on 04/19/2010 2:30:52 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: will of the people; Religion Moderator

PS, I used to use my tagline to make snarky remarks, as you are doing, but the Religion Moderator said that was against the rules.

So....


66 posted on 04/19/2010 2:32:40 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne

I’m an ‘anti-Catholic bigot’, one of the ‘gullible folks’ who’s ‘as ignorant as (you) think (I) am’, but I’m name calling.

What name have I called you?

Are you telling me that your argument, and I’ll repeat the salient points here as I understand them, is serious?!

The priests were victimized by predatory teen homosexuals.
These same priests, when identified, were moved to different parishes, because, as you say, contemporaneous mental health professionals declared them ‘healed’.
-Healed of what? Homosexuality is not recognized as a mental disorder and victimhood isn’t either.

The church agreed to pay money to the families of these victims or to the victims themselves (depending on whether the victims - or predators- had BECOME ADULTS yet.

The church did this to keep the lid on the problem and to secure non-disclosure agreements from the victim/perpetrators.

The church continues to make payouts to the degree that 20 plus US dioceses are bankrupt.

After all these payouts to predator victims, from the Church, it’s ME that’s coddling them?

So, the Catholic church finds itself as either:

- a breeding ground for future angry homosexuals who sue the church for millions (billions) in adulthood; remembering father so and so who either did nothing or was victimized by predatory teens.

- an organization that employed some of the wrong people and then tried to cover their tracks by securing the silence of accusers with money and confidentiality agreements

- everything more or less happened but since the liberal media ignores the word homosexual and instead potentially misuses the word ‘pedophile’ in reference to teens; everyone should make nice and leave the church to sooth it’s victim priests back into full ministry.

I hereby withdraw my question as to whether you are like the tea party infiltrators. Sadly, you’ve convinced me you’re serious.

I removed my snarky tagline since it’s such a distraction.

Will Wallace


67 posted on 04/19/2010 2:52:57 AM PDT by will of the people
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To: will of the people

Your mischaracterization of my points, and your clear antagonism to my point of view makes the statements in your post suspect.

I did not call you an anti-Catholic bigot. If the shoe fits...

Your statement: “Homosexuality is not recognized as a mental disorder and victimhood isn’t either..”

When was homosexuality taken off the list of mental disorders? 2001. When did it become socially acceptable to be one? At least as late as the early 90s men were hiding in the closet, fearful of being labeled homosexual because of the new disease, AIDS.

Being a sexual abuse victim DOES require professional psychological support, but being a criminal does not. That lays the groundwork for the lawsuits.

Ephebophile priests were not victims, neither were their teen partners. Each got something they wanted. 20-30-40-50 years later, the middle aged gay men found out they could financially benefit by suing the Church and pretending to be victims.

“The church continues to make payouts to the degree that 20 plus US dioceses are bankrupt.” Totally foolish. The Church should fight this in court, no matter what it costs. Some dioceses have, and some priests have been exonerated. But some innocent priests have NOT, and even when they ARE, their lives are ruined.

http://www.dailyestimate.com/article.asp?id=29412

The words of a priest victim, from the article:

‘Until a priest has to personally experience the pain and degradation of being removed from priestly service, there is no one who can possibly ‘understand.’ This year, I will observe (I cannot say celebrate) my 40th anniversary of ordination as a Roman Catholic priest. This past June, I had a surprise visit to my parish office by two officials from the chancery, the vicar for priests and a canon lawyer (who happens to be a classmate of mine). They asked to see me privately and I was extremely nervous because of their attitude and demeanor. When the three of us were alone, they proceeded to tell me that a ‘credible allegation of sexual abuse’ was made against me and that I had an hour to pack a bag and to come with them. Few details were given to me when I asked.

‘They mentioned a name which I never heard of before and that this ‘victim’ was deceased. His widow and attorney came to the diocese to bring this supposed abuse to their attention. This was to have occurred some thirty years ago. I have served in my parish as pastor for almost 20 years without the slightest hint of any impropriety.

‘As I left with them in utter disbelief, shame and humiliation, I discovered later that the diocese had already sent out a ‘Fax Blast’ concerning my removal. After the press and media extensively exposed my ‘credible allegation of sexual abuse’ for two days, I found myself living in a hellish nightmare. After some two or three weeks later, the same two officials called me to another meeting and informed me that another ‘victim’ came forth after the public disclosure to make a second allegation against me. (And I had thought that life could not have possibly gotten any worse.)

‘As God as my witness, I swear as I swore on a Bible before the diocesan officials, these allegations are totally and completely untrue. My mind and my soul are bruised, beaten and trampled down. My parishioners are most supportive but I am not permitted to visit them and I cannot afford to call them by telephone. My health is not good and I had avoided many appointments with my doctors. This past Christmas Eve and Christmas Day were the worst emotionally devastating events I have ever had to endure. I was close to suicide. I suffer panic attacks, acute anxiety and severe depression. Worst of all, there is nobody that can really understand or share this onerous burden that I bear.

‘I am in financial ruin ‘to put the icing on the cake.’ I have exhausted my life savings trying to pay monthly expenses for car lease payments, auto insurance, telephone, and many credit card companies to mention a few.

‘Even when the day for my exoneration and restoration does come, I have already seen the future. There is none. Two weeks ago a fellow priest of our diocese was accused of sexual misconduct which allegedly occurred forty years prior, was exonerated and was officially assigned to serve ‘in restricted ministry’ at a convent motherhouse. When the media got hold of his new assignment, the public outcry that a ‘priest, accused of credible sexual abuse’ would be assigned to an area which had schools and day-care centers nearby, our bishop, bowing to ‘public pressure and shepherdly concern’ reversed and revoked his official assignment the very next day, not even twenty-four hours had elapsed.

‘Now I have abandoned all hope. I do not know where to turn for help, for someone who understands. I am ashamed. I am alone. I reach out for your hand.

__________________________________________________________

Sorry if I don’t fit your profile of a Catholic should be. I have news for you: the Church is not the evil institution you claim it is. It never has been.


68 posted on 04/19/2010 3:22:13 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: will of the people
I removed my snarky tagline since it’s such a distraction.

It didn't distract me. I thought it was clever. I just told you because it's against the rules. How do I know? The rule was made because of me doing it.

69 posted on 04/19/2010 3:28:17 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne

“I have news for you: the Church is not the evil institution you claim it is.”

I have news for you.

I have not made the claim that the Catholic church is an evil institution.

I have made the claim that many of her members take a position of blind defense that even her leaders do not hold (at least publicly).

That evil acts occur in an institution does not make the institution evil.

When people in leadership or rank and file members either deny the evil acts, turn a blind eye to evil acts, or try to deflect the evil to others; that institution has (at least temporarily) taken another step toward becoming an evil institution.

For some time period, I believe both the leadership and the rank and file of the Catholic church had taken this step in regard to priestly sex abuse.

Fortunately, the leadership has at least publicly begun the long hard road to accepting the church’s responsibility and culpability in this crisis.

Well meaning but misguided rank and file members will, most likely, eventually follow suit.

Will Wallace


70 posted on 04/19/2010 3:35:17 AM PDT by will of the people
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To: All

By the way, the number of fathers falsely accused of child sexual abuse greatly outnumbers the accusations against priests.

It is my firm opinion that there must be criminal and civil penalties against those who falsely accuse ANYONE of child abuse. Without penalties, the worse that happens to the accuser is that the case is thrown out, while the parent or priest is still suspect, still ruined.


71 posted on 04/19/2010 3:42:28 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: will of the people
Fortunately, the leadership has at least publicly begun the long hard road to accepting the church’s responsibility and culpability in this crisis.

Oh please. Who gives the falsely accused -- a larger number than you might imagine -- their good name back?

72 posted on 04/19/2010 3:45:47 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: All

Has anyone read the Gateway Pundit article on Catholic child sex abuse? It’s very enlightening, find it here:

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/04/catholic-priests-abuse-children-at-same-rate-as-anyone-else/

And if you don’t want to believe me, how about Ann Coulter? She says the number of child sex abusers among priests is 0.12%. That’s about a tenth of a hundredth. Now, you can make fun of me, but Ann Coulter has a reputation for accuracy.


73 posted on 04/19/2010 4:05:15 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: All

Ann Coulter’s article is posted here on FR:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2493441/posts


74 posted on 04/19/2010 4:06:25 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne

You quoted me as saying: Fortunately, the leadership has at least publicly begun the long hard road to accepting the church’s responsibility and culpability in this crisis.

You responded: Oh please. Who gives the falsely accused — a larger number than you might imagine — their good name back?

My response.

Quoting myself, I would reiterate: Well meaning but misguided rank and file members will, most likely, eventually follow suit.

Continuing:

Some obviously sooner than others.

Will Wallace


75 posted on 04/19/2010 4:32:42 AM PDT by will of the people
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To: Judith Anne
And how many anti-Catholic bigots here walk hand in glove with those Obama-worshipping toadies?

Most, if not all, of them.

Behind every double standard lies an unconfessed single standard.

76 posted on 04/19/2010 5:25:57 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: All

It is time, I think, for someone to seriously look at the work of SNAP. They jump so quickly on every priest accused of anything and pronounce him ‘Guilty”.


77 posted on 04/19/2010 5:35:14 AM PDT by VidMihi ("In fide, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.")
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Monday, April 19, 2010

Psychiatrist Validates Cardinal Bertone’s Link Between Homosexuality and Clerical Sexual Abuse

Folks, this according to the Catholic News Agency:

Cardinal Bertone correct in linking clerical sex abuse and homosexuality, says psychiatrist

West Conshohocken, Pa., Apr 16, 2010 / 04:38 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Following Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone’s comments in Chile about a link existing between homosexuality and pedophilia in cases of clerical sexual abuse, both Church officials and secular figures clarified his statement. But Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a psychiatrist with experience treating sexually abusive priests, told CNA that the cardinal's statement is accurate.

At a press conference last Monday evening at the Pontifical Seminary of Santiago, Chile, the Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone said, “Many psychologists and psychiatrists have shown that there is no link between celibacy and pedophilia.” Instead, they have found a “relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia,” he added.

Many gay rights organizations reacted vehemently to Cardinal Bertone’s statement, leading Fr. Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican Press office, to assert that “it obviously refers to the problem of abuse by priests and not in the population in general."

A statement from the French Foreign Ministry calling the linkage “unacceptable” was followed by a statement by Fr. Marcus Stock, the General Secretary of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales. “To the best of my knowledge, there is no empirical data which concludes that sexual orientation is connected to child sexual abuse,” he said.

“The consensus among researchers is that the sexual abuse of children is not a question of sexual ‘orientation,’ whether heterosexual or homosexual, but of a disordered attraction or ‘fixation,’” Fr. Stock added.

However, a U.S. psychiatrist with experience in treating priests with pedophilia disagrees that there is no link between homosexuality and sexual abuse of children. “Cardinal Bertone's comments are supported completely by the John Jay study report and by clinical experience,” Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons told CNA. “In fact, every priest whom I treated who was involved with children sexually had previously been involved in adult homosexual relationships.”

Fitzgibbons, who has been the director of Comprehensive Counseling Center in West Conshohocken, Penn. since 1988, has worked extensively with individuals suffering from same sex attraction (SSA) and priests accused of pedophilia. He also presently serves as a consultant to the Congregation for the Clergy at the Holy See.

In his 2002 “Letter to Catholic Bishops,” Fitzgibbons identified priests prone to sexual abuse as having suffered “profound emotional pain” during childhood due to loneliness, problems in their relationships with their fathers, rejection by their peers, lack of male confidence, and poor self image or body image. Fitzgibbons said that these experiences lead priests especially to direct their sadness and anger towards the Church, her teachings on sexual morality, and the Magisterium.

He also noted that priests who have engaged in sexual misconduct with minors suffer from a “denial of sin in their lives.” “They consistently refused to examine their consciences, to accept the Church's teachings on moral issues as a guide for their personal actions, or regularly avail themselves of the sacrament of reconciliation. These priests either refused to seek spiritual direction or choose (sic) a spiritual director or confessor who openly rebelled against Church teachings on sexuality,” the letter said.

When asked what sort of new information has become available since the publication of the letter, Fitzgibbons put an emphasis on narcissism. “This epidemic personality weakness in the west predisposes individuals to excessive anger, the worship of self, rebelliousness against God and His Church particularly in regard to sexual morality and sexual acting-out,” he said.

The psychiatrist also reviewed the findings of the John Jay researchers, who reported that 81percent of the victims of clerical sexual abuse were male of those makes who were abused, 51 percent of whom were age 11-14, 27 percent were aged 15-17, 16 percent between 8-10, and 6 percent were under 7 years of age, emphasized Fitzgibbons.

For priests who do suffer from SSA, “I would recommend that they become more knowledgeable about the emotional origins and healing of same-sex attractions, as well as the serious medical and psychiatric illnesses associated with homosexuality,” advised Fitzgibbons. “We have observed many priests grow in holiness and in happiness in their ministry as a result of the healing of their childhood and adolescent male insecurity, loneliness and anger and, subsequently, their same-sex attractions.”

Because of the link between homosexuality and clerical sexual abuse mentioned by Cardinal Bertone, men with same sex attraction have a solemn responsibility to seek help and to protect the Church from further shame and sorrow, said Fitzgibbons.

Commentary. Cardinal Bertone’s comments ignited the rage of homosexualist groups worldwide but you know what, the link between homosexuality, priests, and sexual abuse is undeniable. The John Jay research’s findings are particularly sobering: 81percent of the victims of clerical sexual abuse were male 51 percent of whom were age 11-14, 27 percent were aged 15-17, 16 percent between 8-10, and 6 percent were under 7 years of age. The homosexual preference of the abusing priests is clear.

The Homiletics and Pastoral Review published an extensive report, entitled Child Molestation by homosexuals and heterosexuals as far back as 2005 detailing the data. The authors, Brian W. Clowes and David L. Sonnier, observed that

The situation has become so charged that anyone who even suggests that there may be a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia is instantly and reflexively labeled a “homophobe” and a “gay basher.” The powerful homosexual lobby reacts instinctively to negative publicity and information by, as researcher Laird Wilcox calls it, “ritually defaming” those who dare raise their voices. Organized homosexual groups first attempt to completely ignore the evidence, or, if it simply cannot be ignored, they smear and discredit those who produced it.

That was 5 years ago but like it happens all to often in this controversy, the mainstream media, the self-appointed cultural elites, and their wealthy patrons have been very successful in stopping this sorry aspect underlying the crisis from coming fully into the limelight. It has taken the persistence of the Catholic League’s Bill Donohue and the courage of Cardinal Bertone’s to bring to light forcefully a truth that refuses to go away.

- Read Child Molestation by homosexuals and heterosexuals


78 posted on 04/19/2010 7:14:14 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Judith Anne
Just look back over the past 7-8 weeks, and check out how many CATHOLIC-CHURCH-BASHING threads have found their way onto the Religion Forum. Honestly, I’m sick of it. This is Free Republic, and we are too good for that.

Honestly, who's claiming to be too good for what?


79 posted on 04/19/2010 7:23:14 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Judith Anne
Corrupt altar boys seducing innocent priests??? Call it “church bashing” if you will, but that is the most foul and ridiculus defence I’ve ever encountred!

But if Wikipedia says that raping a thirteen year old is somehow qualitativly different than raping a ten year old that makes all the difference, doesn’t it? But perhaps not if you think both were lying.

What an utterly disgusting line of rationalizing nonsense!!!

80 posted on 04/19/2010 7:39:41 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Judith Anne
You know, not too awful long ago the Catholic Church was the media's darling in their war against Fundamentalist Protestantism. You know, Catholics are the "good" chr*stians. They're intellectual, they're historically victims of ethnic prejudice, they don't interpret the Bible literally, and they believe in evolution. And some Catholics absolutely ate it up.

How does it feel to be on the receiving end?

81 posted on 04/19/2010 7:45:28 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Judith Anne
You know, not too awful long ago the Catholic Church was the media's darling in their war against Fundamentalist Protestantism. You know, Catholics are the "good" chr*stians. They're intellectual, they're historically victims of ethnic prejudice, they don't interpret the Bible literally, and they believe in evolution. And some Catholics absolutely ate it up.

I remember that coverage.

It lauded the types of Catholics that Catholic FReepers despise ("Cafeteria Catholics") (You know the type: heavy on social justice; light on doctrine; birth control: OK, after all, it should be your conscience that decides; abortion: not for me, but I don't want to impose...you know, the "good" Catholics)

How does it feel to be on the receiving end?

Typical day.

I always figure that the devil wouldn't bother if we weren't doing something right.

82 posted on 04/19/2010 7:52:15 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: caww

Bingo!


83 posted on 04/19/2010 7:58:59 AM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Judith Anne

** Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict,**

Seriously, this happened in my state.

From a juror: “We know that he is a Catholic priest, now let’s find him guilty.”

Even though all the dates from the state records (he worked in penal instisution) proved that the priest was NOT even present at that institution or incident on the dates the accusers specified that the sexual abuse occurred.


84 posted on 04/19/2010 8:09:53 AM PDT by Salvation ( "With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: markomalley
It lauded the types of Catholics that Catholic FReepers despise ("Cafeteria Catholics")

It isn't just "cafeteria Catholics" who believe in evolution and Biblical criticism. In fact, plenty of Catholic FReepers do as well.

85 posted on 04/19/2010 8:18:53 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
It isn't just "cafeteria Catholics" who believe in evolution and Biblical criticism. In fact, plenty of Catholic FReepers do as well.

True.

But your original stipulation didn't make it seem that this was your specific point:

They're intellectual, they're historically victims of ethnic prejudice, they don't interpret the Bible literally, and they believe in evolution.

I maintain my original contention: the Catholics loved by the media were the "cafeteria Catholics." Orthodox Catholics have never been in vogue in the MSM.

86 posted on 04/19/2010 8:34:44 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Judith Anne

There is no doubt that Priests did molest children. These are not allegations, they are proven facts, in many time confessed to or adjudicated.


87 posted on 04/19/2010 8:37:54 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Alex Murphy
Honestly, who's claiming to be too good for what?

ROTFLOL.

Apparently (paraphrasing William Munny) "honesty's got nothing to do with it."

88 posted on 04/19/2010 9:42:08 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: markomalley
I maintain my original contention: the Catholics loved by the media were the "cafeteria Catholics." Orthodox Catholics have never been in vogue in the MSM.

Except when the MSM wants to discredit YEC or Biblical literalism.

89 posted on 04/19/2010 9:44:57 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Judith Anne; Alex Murphy; count-your-change
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused?

In the case of pederast priests, they're on their knees thanking God they don't send their children to parochial schools.

90 posted on 04/19/2010 9:56:07 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Except when the MSM wants to discredit YEC or Biblical literalism

Can you give me an example or three where the MSM has done so?

I honestly don't remember seeing such.

91 posted on 04/19/2010 10:03:52 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: will of the people
The alleged victims are Catholic

The alleged perpetrators are Catholic

The alleged cover-ups were allegedly done by Catholics

The alleged culture was Catholic

The alleged decisions to move the priests around was Catholic

The payouts (they’re not alleged) have been Catholic.

What is it- twenty some dioceses in bankruptcy over this? A billion plus dollars or some such figure. And that’s just in the US?

Oh, and the blind defense is by.....wait for it.... Catholics!

Those dastardly clever Protestants.

lol. AMEN!

Excellent post - although the U.S. payout is over 2 billion dollars...so far.

92 posted on 04/19/2010 10:04:35 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: markomalley
Except when the MSM wants to discredit YEC or Biblical literalism

Can you give me an example or three where the MSM has done so?

I honestly don't remember seeing such.

If you think the MSM is YEC or Biblically literalist, you must live in a different universe.

The MSM "went ape" when JPII declared evolution "more than a hypothesis" and again when Jesuit George Coyne claimed that G-d did not design him.

93 posted on 04/19/2010 10:16:45 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
If you think the MSM is YEC or Biblically literalist, you must live in a different universe.

Don't worry. I live in the same universe as you do. But if you think the MSM are supportive of orthodoxy, you haven't been paying attention.

As for JPII supporting evolution, I remember that the MSM got the reporting on that completely wrong. IIRC, they indicated that he, all of a sudden, became a Darwinist.

In fact, in the speech (Italian version) that generated the MSM reports, he said, Consequently, theories of evolution which, in accordance with the philosophies inspiring them, consider the spirit as emerging from the forces of living matter or as a mere epiphenomenon of this matter, are incompatible with the truth about man. Nor are they able to ground the dignity of the person.

While that does not make him a six day creationist, he was far, far from a Darwinist.

Unfortunately, Fr. Coyne was unable to grasp that concept and he was fired from his position at the Vatican Observatory for that little error in judgment.

See what I'm saying?

94 posted on 04/19/2010 10:46:51 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley
See what I'm saying?

Of course. YEC and Biblical literalism have no relation whatsoever to Catholic "orthodoxy." Which is why the MSM preferred the Catholics to Fundamentalist Protestants for so long.

Remember the Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals? Catholics were laughing up their sleeves at such a clownish religion and patting themselves on the back for being so "respectable."

You know what they say about payback.

95 posted on 04/19/2010 10:50:57 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Venatan 'Aharon `al-sheney hase`irim goralot; goral 'echad leHaShem vegoral 'echad la`Aza'zel.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Of course. YEC and Biblical literalism have no relation whatsoever to Catholic "orthodoxy." Which is why the MSM preferred the Catholics to Fundamentalist Protestants for so long.

No they didn't. They liked "Kennedy" Catholics, "McCarrick" Catholics, "O'Brien" Catholics, "Küng" Catholics and so on. In fact, they still do. I don't seem to recall them ever liking the Chaput kind of Catholic, the Tilton kind of Catholic, the Donahue (Bill, not Phil) kind of Catholic, etc. And I certainly remember all of the hand wringing once they figured out that JPII was not a Communist, despite having come from Communist Poland...and I absolutely remember them screaming about Ratzinger, both before and after he was elected.

Remember the Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals? Catholics were laughing up their sleeves at such a clownish religion and patting themselves on the back for being so "respectable."

Yes I do. I remember both of them quite vividly. And let's not forget about Robert Tilton in that mix, as well.

You know what they say about payback.

Yeah I do. Although I do not believe in Karma.

But having said that, I do believe that this is God's purgation being given to His Church now due to the lack of fidelity of Her members.

Plenty of examples in the OT to show how He did so for Israel. Plenty of warnings in the NT about what would happen if we grow lax. Fortunately, God is more faithful than we are.

96 posted on 04/19/2010 11:04:51 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Too true, too true.


97 posted on 04/19/2010 11:57:10 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Judith Anne; narses; Steelfish

One thing is for certain. These Fred Phelps types who have so much hatred and malice in their hearts expose themselves on a daily basis for what they are, and they are no Christians.

It really is a shame that the few that are here are a stain on the Religion Forum and Free Republic because there is no place for hatred and bigotry in the conservative movement.


98 posted on 04/19/2010 12:34:27 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: Judith Anne

“I see you haven’t been around FR long...check the Religion Forum for the last month, and count the anti-Catholic articles.

I didn’t dream this up out of nowhere.”

Actually I’ve been on FR for years, just on a different account.

And I’ve seen plenty of insults of Protestants, too. Just yesterday I was reading a thread insulting Martin Luther, a commenter talked about how he ripped six books out of the Bible and tried to take out more, etc.

Anyway, you didn’t respond to the list of many non-Catholics who are assumed guilty around here. Don’t you see that there are plenty of them who are assumed guilty, too?

I personally believe that the vast majority of priests are good men who are trying to do good. And that the RC church members have done a lot of good in this world. So I am not on a hunt.

It’s the issue of child molestation/abuse, not the issue of Catholicism, that gets most of us riled up. That’s my opinion.

Yes, when someone presents himself as particularly holy or set apart, as in a priest OR a minister OR a teacher, it rankles even more. Because of the hypocrisy.

But I think you are assuming an agenda too intensely. Debates about Catholicism/Protestantism will occur, particularly in the religion forum. Both sides can get accusatory and ugly. The child molestation issue is largely separate as I see it.


99 posted on 04/19/2010 12:54:28 PM PDT by Persevero (Ask yourself: "What does the Left want me to do?" Then go do the opposite.)
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To: Judith Anne; All
“The history of the Protestant Reformation and the Council of Trent (1545-1563) record the rampant corruption of the bishops and priests. It is not hyperbole to speculate that sexually and financially the Church is equally corrupt today”.
A.W. Richard Sipe. A Benedictine monk for 18 years and now in private practice, writing in the book, “Sin Against the Innocents” in the chapter titled, The Crisis of Sexual Abuse, page 67.

As for the accused priest in the article it was a VICAR FOR PRIESTS and CANON LAWYER THAT SAID “A CREDIBLE ALLEGATION OF SEXUAL ABUSE” had been made against him. TWICE.

It sounds more like “John” just caught.

100 posted on 04/19/2010 1:01:33 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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