Catholic Word of the Day: EUCHARISTIC MEAL, 04-28-10

CatholicReference.net ^ | 04-28-10 | Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary

[Salvation]

Featured Term (selected at random):

EUCHARISTIC MEAL

Holy Communion as food of the soul. Implied in Christ's words when he told his followers to eat his body and drink his blood, the Eucharist is the principal source of sustenance of the supernatural life. Like food in the natural order, Communion nourishes this divine life, produces a sense of well-being and satiety in the soul, and protects a person from the ravages of spiritual disease or sin.

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

[blasater1960]

What we have here is progressive revelation, akin to how a parent raises a child. When you tell a child not to play with the chainsaw, you give the child a law. When the child is big enough to use the chainsaw, the law does not pass away, it is fulfilled in the child: he survived the dangers of childhood and now he can use the chainsaw to his benefit. Such were all ceremonial and dietetic laws of Moses, they were given to the Jews in order to help them make the necessary step for holiness, such that produced Mary.....

The problem I see with that thinking is:

Deut12:32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

Psalm 111:7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. 8They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. 9He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

And I shall give them one heart, and shall put a new spirit within them. And I shall take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances, and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God. (Ezekiel 11:19-20)

My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. (Ezekiel 37:24)

And many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths," for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. (Isaiah 2:3)

So, you can see that the commandments are forever. Even after when the messiah comes, the commandments, the law remains in place and the people do them.

[blasater1960]

"Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die.

Okay Either:

A) He is referring to spiritual death and saying the Israelites died spiritually

B) He is referring to physical death and that Christians would physically live for ever.

Both are wrong.

[srweaver]

You can start by addressing the scriptures in post 165.

[srweaver]

You posted: You aren’t even giving me credit for having a brain and a conscience — saying I depend on others for my decision making.

Before that you posted: We welcome you home at any time. Sit down with a priest and get your questions answered truthfully...........not according to your own interpretation of Scripture.

I was responding to your insinuation that I need a priest to give me truth and deliver me from my own interpretation of Scripture.

Actually, I do believe you have a brain and a conscience, and respect your ability to use them and form your own conclusions, otherwise I am wasting my time speaking with you.

Do you believe everything a priest tells you? Do yuo believe everything a priest, or a body of priests tells you is true about the Bible or what is required of the faithful servant of God to be so?

If not, then you are “guilty” of your own private interpretations...which I applaud you for.

So if I had questions, will any priest do, even the ones that are excoriated on FR Catholic threads as being homosexual, or otherwise unfit for ministry, or do I need to pick my priest with care.

In case of the former, I think I’ll pass. In case of the latter, won’t I need to use personal judgment or discernment, as I do with Scripture.

[srweaver]

No, the Catholic Church didn’t give me the Bible, God did, and He gave it to you as well.

The church did, under the inspiration of God, write the New Testament, as Jews, under the inspiration of God, wrote the Old Testament.

Selection of the “canonical” books was made from among competing writings later, by what you call the “Catholic Church,” and the Scripture copies were made and preserved in several families of texts, with none of the “autographs” currently known to exist.

I am thankful for the role of monks and others in copying the biblical text and helping preserve the Scriptures God gave through the Jews and the primitive church.

I am saddened by the attempts of Roman Catholicism to keep the word of God from the common man, which thankfully has been remedied by the heroic and sometimes martyred (by the Roman Catholic oganization) reformers.

You probably have the Protestants to thank for any/all Bibles you have in your home today for it is unlikely you would possess them absent the Protestant Reformation.

[annalex]

Deut12:32 prohibits the Jews from adding or taking away from the law. It has no relevance to what God Himself does. Catholic and all Christians believe in the divinity of Christ, on whose command we celebrate the Eucharist. It is also on His command that the Church operates in the sphere of disciplines such as fasting, abstinence of various activites and foods, and ceremony.

Further, — as I alluded to it previously, — the Church has no doctrine regarding obligations of the Jews and the commandments of Moses were given the Jews. Whether the Jews wish to keep them forever, or not, they should obey their religious authority. Those who convert to Christianity, or perhaps some other religion, will leave the Mosaic Law.

Regarding the distinction between physical and spiritual death, it is possible that Jesus is speaking in the first instance of physical death and in the second, of spiritual life. His point is, after all that the Eucharist despite being actual food, feeds the spirit whereas “flesh profiteth nothing”. This is consistent with how He heals the physical illness but speaks of salvation of the soul. Similarly, St. Paul in Corinthians 11 refers to the sin of not recognizing Christ int he Eucharist, yet concludes his discourse by pointing out that “many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep” (1 Cor 11:30). In short, the distinction between the physical and the spiritual was not as meaningful in the patristic age as it is to the feebleminded us.

[annalex]

the scriptures in post 165

On what thread?

[srweaver]

Sorry.

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: The Eucharist: The Lord’s Supper

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2498793/posts?page=165#165

[annalex]

Of course. I just responded there.

[blasater1960]

..the Church has no doctrine regarding obligations of the Jews and the commandments of Moses were given the Jews. Whether the Jews wish to keep them forever, or not, they should obey their religious authority. Those who convert to Christianity, or perhaps some other religion, will leave the Mosaic Law.

Once again, this seems to be in conflict with the word of G-d. You are in essence saying that G-d is changing his mind at the least and fully breaking his own law at the worst. You are saying that Jesus has the authority to change or eliminate the law of Moses. That would mean G-d changing his mind.

God is not a man that He should lie, nor a mortal that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)

And also the Eternal One of Israel will not lie nor change His mind; for he is not a man, that He should change His mind. (I Samuel 15:29)

Do not put your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no salvation! (Psalm 146:3)

[srweaver]

Why the need for a new covenant, if God doesn’t change His mind?

Jeremiah 31:31-34

Why didn’t Abraham sacrifice Isaac, if God doesn’t change His mind?

Note that I didn’t say God Himself changed or lied.

Why Noah’s flood, if God wasn’t sorry over His creation?

I am familiar with the term anthropomorphic.

[blasater1960]

"Why the need for a new covenant, if God doesn’t change His mind? Jeremiah 31:31-34

This is not a example of G-d changing his mind. This is a prophecy of what is to occur when Israel returns in the Messianic era. Israel had blown it and were sent into exile. So, now when Israel returns, they will resume the commandments and sacrifices will return in the 3rd temple. Furthermore, G-d is not changing his salvation plan in this "new covenant".

And I shall give them one heart, and shall put a new spirit within them. And I shall take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances, and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God. (Ezekiel 11:19-20)

And many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths," for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. (Isaiah 2:3)

And what will the Gentile Nations response be to this miracle of the Jews returning to God and following the commandments???

O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

20Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?

21Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD. (Jeremiah 16:18-21)

23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. (Zech 8:23)

So, contrary to G-d changing his mind he will keep his word, restore Israel and the Nations will worship the G-d of Israel by learning at the hands of the Jewish people.

"Why didn’t Abraham sacrifice Isaac, if God doesn’t change His mind?

Again, no change of mind. This was the 10th and final trial of Abraham. He had no intention of sacrificing Issac. He wanted to see if Abraham feared G-d. Abraham feared G-d enough to do as he was commanded but Abraham had faith that G-d would provide a animal, which He did. (a Ram not a lamb)

Regarding Noahs flood, if G-d would have changed his mind He would utterly destroyed all of mankind forever. But he saved a remnant, to carry on with. Being sorry isnt the same as changing his mind. Blotting out man forever would have been.

[srweaver]

Good luck on getting back to your animal sacrifice system in the temple.

That system was done away with forever when Jesus died on the cross and the vail of the holy of holies was torn in two from top to bottom.

However, the seed of Abraham by flesh and the seed of Abraham by faith will worship together in Jerusalem — at the feet of Jesus after His return and after His acceptance by the Jews as their Messiah.

Philippians 2:10, 11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[blasater1960]

"Good luck on getting back to your animal sacrifice system in the temple. That system was done away with forever when Jesus died on the cross and the vail of the holy of holies was torn in two from top to bottom."

Once again, I will take the word of G-d over your opinion.

Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

18Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

Zech 14: 20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

Ezekiel 43-44 In part:

18And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon. 19And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering. 20And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it. 21Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary. 22And on the second day thou shalt offer a kid of the goats without blemish for a sin offering; and they shall cleanse the altar, as they did cleanse it with the bullock. 23When thou hast made an end of cleansing it, thou shalt offer a young bullock without blemish, and a ram out of the flock without blemish. 24And thou shalt offer them before the LORD, and the priests shall cast salt upon them, and they shall offer them up for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 25Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish. 26Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves. 27And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.

27And in the day that he goeth into the sanctuary, unto the inner court, to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, saith the Lord GOD. 28And it shall be unto them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and ye shall give them no possession in Israel: I am their possession. 29They shall eat the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering: and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs.

Sacrifices are returning! The man from Nazareth in no way was a sacrifice.

[annalex]

Jesus has the authority to change or eliminate the law of Moses. That would mean G-d changing his mind

Well, no because God gave the Law of Moses to the Jews and He gave the law of Jesus to the Christians.