CNN, Homosexuality, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford

True Freethinker ^ | 05-01-10 | Mariano Grinbank

[MarianoApologeticus]

But remember, dear friends, that the apostles of our Master, Jesus Christ, told us this would happen: “In the last days there will be people who...make a religion of their own whims and lusts” —Jude v. 17-18, The Message trans.

An interesting conversation took place between Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford on CNN’s Larry King Live (April 23, 2010) on a show titled, “Christian Singer Comes Out As Lesbian.”...

LARRY KING, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a Christian singer's shocking admission. She admits she is a lesbian, alienating some of her fans, angering devout followers. Jennifer Knapp reveals how a God-loving woman rejected church teachings to be true to herself… Can you be Christian and gay? Should anyone have to choose one or the other?... Jennifer Knapp is a Grammy-nominated Christian music artist. Recently came out publicly as a lesbian revealing that she has been in a same-sex relationship for the past eight years.

[Star Traveler]

The only good response is exactly what the Bible says about it...

---

Romans Chapter 1

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of
God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also
for the Greek.

17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith;
as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has
shown it to them.

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His
eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God,
nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their
foolish hearts were darkened.

22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made
like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping
things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of
their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served
the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their
women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned
in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is
shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which
was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God
gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not
fitting;

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,
wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife,
deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,

30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of
evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;

32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice
such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also
approve of those who practice them.

---

It’s kind of hard to top that...

[RexBeach]

This is remarkably stupid. Why would anyone want to reveal such a thing about themselves? Because I’ve never heard of her?

[rwfromkansas]

Used to listen to her music, but not anymore. She disappeared about 10 years ago and people wondered what happened to her....now we know.

Anything she writes now is tainted by her thinking on her sin.

[Tzfat]

While I agree that Knapp's "coming out" is displicable, Larry King understands the concept of unmutability far better than most "Pastors" and theologians. If the Almighty can "change His mind" and give a vision that it is OK to eat shellfish - why not one to Knapp that homosexuality is OK? The fact is, Acts 10 does NOT comprise a change in what is food, and what is not. Anyone who says that, is blinded by their theology. Peter says TWICE what the vision was about - and it ain't "food."

His Word stands... forever.

[runninglips]

Her homosexuality is actually less of a sin than her absolute rejection of the Word. That single act allows her to judge herself, setting herself up as goddess of her own life. There is nothing worse than living within this denial, for she believes she is a Christian, but is both the liar and the receiver of lies. The least she could do is to flat out say, “you live your life, and I’ll live mine, it is clearly not your area of concern” to both man and her god.

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

This is remarkably stupid. Why would anyone want to reveal such a thing about themselves? Because I’ve never heard of her?

It's part of the political strategy of the agressive homosexual lobby in this country. You get people in prominent positions and/or someone who (apart from "homosexuality and politics") you might consider to be a normal working person in a business or some fields of arts or a scientist or a doctor or a lawyer -- and you get them to "come out" -- in order to force the thinking on the public that "they are all over the place" and we can't do anything about it.

And so, in the long run, it serves their purpose, politically, in gaining ground with those who are not homosexual to accept their lifestyle as simply "another lifestyle" and it's just "different" than the other citizens in this country, and that's all.

It's part of the incessant "drip, drip, drip" (declarations) coming out all the time, here and there, designed to foist and force their lifestyle upon the American public, even though the American public knows that God condemns it and that it's an abomination.

[Freddd]

a God-loving woman rejected church teachings to be true to herself——————kinda makes the point right there doesn’t it? True to herself, but not to God.

[dmz]

It’s part of the political strategy of the agressive homosexual lobby in this country. You get people in prominent positions [snip]to “come out”

<><><><><

What you say may or may not be true, it certainly is open to debate. But you go too far, you have provided nothing to suggest that this young woman has been ‘gotten’ to come out by the homosexual lobby. You simply assume it is true.

I think the answer is much more mundane. She wants to sell records, and her former base is pretty much gone, so she needs a little free publicity to help record sales. Occams Razor.

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

a God-loving woman rejected church teachings to be true to herself

The Bible does say that the heart of mankind is desperately wicked... and that's one good reason for people to not "follow their heart" ... doncha know ... LOL ...

And that's exactly the kind of problem that a lot of people, today, are having -- they are "following their heart" -- which is actually a lie of Satan, rather than what the Bible tells us to do... which is not to follow the inclinations of our sinful heart -- but rather -- follow the Word of God, as that provides the "light" to our actions ... :-)

Maybe she is "true to herself" (her heartfelt emotions) but she's ignoring the Bible, God's Word, which has warned her, already, about her desperately wicked heart (and that applies to all of us...).

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

What you say may or may not be true, it certainly is open to debate. But you go too far, you have provided nothing to suggest that this young woman has been ‘gotten’ to come out by the homosexual lobby. You simply assume it is true.

It doesn't have to be some "lobbying group" that came knocking on her door and sat down and spoke with her and said, "Let's do this in order to further our group in society." I'm not saying that this is what happened.

So, no... it doesn't have to be that she has been "gotten" to -- in order to come out.

It's the "cultural imperative" of the homosexual lobby which has done that. It doesn't have to be some official meeting. And also, it can be in connection with other incentives, too (as you mention, perhaps expanding her fan base to a new group...). That can enter into it.

But, keep in mind, that I don't think anyone would claim to be a homosexual and "come out" -- for the purpose of expanding their fan-base, if they weren't already a homosexual. In other words, no one becomes a "homosexual" in public (when they aren't in private), just to expand their fan-base. Now..., they may be "encouraging" of the homosexual lobby and seek to expand that fan-base that way, but not by saying, "I'm coming out and I'm a homosexual" ... LOL ... (when they are not).

So, the way she has been "gotten to" -- is simply the homosexual lobby in their incessent message to the public and by others doing so (providing the "example" for more to do the same) and also, perhaps, seeing some financial incentive to doing so -- and for this stupid idea of "following her heart" in "what she really is" -- in being "true to herself" (which is totally against what the Bible says...) -- this is the "methodology" of "getting to her" by the homosexual lobby ... not some "official meeting" they had in her home ... :-)

[RU88]

Larry King “alive” has become a barely walking, talking parody of himself. His seventh or eighth divorce was really a cry for non existent ratings. I mean, come on. Your wife is having a affair with your kids baseball coach and you don't know about it? This lesbo singer is no different in that she's trying to reinvent herself after reaching the point of her relevance. She's trying to attract a new crowd of followers.

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

This lesbo singer is no different in that she's trying to reinvent herself after reaching the point of her relevance. She's trying to attract a new crowd of followers.

This can be true... but those are things that come "as a result of a debased mind" ... you see...

The real foundational truth here, which is at the "core" of the whole thing, is when you depart from the truth of God and you start to suppress the truth of who He is and you go in this direction ... God "gives them over" to a debased mind, in which these kinds of things "make sense" to them, but they come out of that debased thinking.

That's the core problem here.... not the "results" that come from a debased mind... :-)

See Post #2 ...

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness ...

...

Professing to be wise, they became fools

...

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

...

... who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

There's the core problem, right there... everything else that proceeds from that is a "result" of this core problem, and thus, also the "judgement of God" upon them, too.

[circlecity]

"The fact is, Acts 10 does NOT comprise a change in what is food, and what is not. Anyone who says that, is blinded by their theology. Peter says TWICE what the vision was about - and it ain't "food."

Your interpretation is directly contradicted by Mark 7:18-19

"Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)"

It doesn't get any clearer than that. Neither shellfish, nor any other food, is unclean for a Christian.

[Tzfat]

Your interpretation is directly contradicted by Mark 7:18-19 "Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)"

Ah, but you don't really know what verse 19 says, do you? You see, verse 19 in the Greek does NOT say "Thus he declared all foods clean." It simply says that food that is eat is expelled into the latrine. The parenthetical statement is NOT in the Greek. And look at the topic in Mark 7 - not about eating shellfish or porl - but whether to eat BREAD with unwashed hands (which is not a commandment, but is a tradition).

But since you don't know the original Greek, just think logically with me. If Jesus had anulled the dietary laws in Mark 7, would that not have been REAL grounds for stoning Him? Read Deuteronomy 12:32-13:4 - if He annulled any of the commandments, the authorities would have been CORRECT to put Him to death. The fact is, if He had taught that, then He would not be sinless - and as such an invalid atonement Himself. No "perfect Lamb" - no salvation.

It doesn't get any clearer than that. Neither shellfish, nor any other food, is unclean for a Christian.

So, do not follow your Master's example in how He lived?

[circlecity]

"But since you don't know the original Greek, just think logically with me...."

What arrogance. I most certainly do know and read the original Greek, both the Majority and Critical texts. The paranthetical is absolutely in there and has the same meaning in both texts. Where as the majority text is generally translated "thus purifying ALL foods", the critial text which I prefer (NA27) in correctly translated as I noted above. You are clearly engaging in an eisogesic exercise trying to read into the text the jewish meaning which you want to be in there. The portion where Jesus says "it's not what goes into your mouth which makes one unclean, but what comes out" is in all the synoptic Gospels. The clear meaning that Jesus abolished the Jewish dietary restrictions is not only here but in Acts and Romans Chapter 14 ("Everything is indeed clean...") If you want to follow Jewish dietary law that's fine with me since Paul said, "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him", but I will contiue to eat a diet of my choice and move on the the meat of the faith rather than continue in the milk.

[TaraP]

ST,
I watched this interview with Jennifer Knapp on Larry King.

This girl seems utterly confused and stated the Bible had been mis-interpeted from Hebrew to Greek....What I found infuriating with Haggard and the other Pastor is their Tip-Toeing around the issue of homosexuality....It is almost many Preachers are so worried about offending homosexuals and being labeled a *Bigot*, so they make excuses and apologies for GOD condemning homosexual behaviour...

It’s more than frustrating to watch...

If we are ashamed of the GOSPEL and Jesus Christ, he will be ashamed of us....

[Tzfat]

Acts and Romans Chapter 14 ("Everything is indeed clean...")

No, the parenthetical phrase "thus he declared all food clean" does not exist in the Greek - in any manuscript. Now, you can say that it does, and you can arrange the words into such a phrase, but you are supplying the words that make it say that - the Greek does not. I think you need to read Romans 14 (huh? a discussion of "doubtful things" leads you to correlate Romans 14 and Mark 7?), Acts 10-11, and Mark 7 again - in Greek, without your theological glasses.

As to a claim of arrogance, you will note that assigned no motive to you when I countered your post.

As for "Jewish dietary law" - I will simply leave you with this question... Did Jesus eat according to the commandments? If so, why would a disciple not follow Him in His example? It seems that for all that He did, it is the least we can do.

The meat of faith, does not lack humility - neither is it ungrateful for all that Messiah has done.

[catfish1957]

Well CNN has flamer Anderson Cooper. I always meant to ask whether the 360 meant a reacharound in his case.

[Rightly Biased]

Your Tagline is a great song...