Posted on 05/05/2010 10:48:55 AM PDT by markomalley
"Fatima is a particularly significant place for this Pope," said Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi on Tuesday, noting that it was also a destination for two former Popes. The Holy Father has a thorough knowledge of the history of the Marian sanctuary, he added.
Fr. Lombardi held a press conference at the Vatican to prepare the media for the Pope's next trip out of the Vatican. He will be visiting Portugal from May 11-14.
The spokesman referred to the Pope's stop in Fatima on May 13 as the highlight and "heart" of the upcoming four-day trip to Portugal, according to Vatican Radio. But, he pointed out, Benedict XVI will not be the first Pope to visit the Marian shrine.
Two other Pontiffs have been to Fatima. In 1967, the sanctuary hosted Paul VI, and John Paul II visited in 1982, 1991 and 2000, at which time the visionaries Jacinta and Francesco were beatified.
The Portuguese shrine is not unfamiliar to Pope Benedict, since as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger extensively studied the message of Fatima. Fr. Lombardi said on Tuesday that the Pope has been involved with history of the Marian sanctuary in a "very deep, personal way."
It was him, for example, who was called upon to give a theological perspective when the third secret of Fatima was made public in 2000.
The Vatican spokesman said that the Holy Father will also deliver an intense message during his Fatima visit. Upon his arrival at the sanctuary on May 12, he will remember John Paul II and the 29th anniversary of the assassination attempt that nearly took his life on May 13, 1981.
This visit marks the Holy Father's 15th Apostolic Journey abroad in his five years and is his first to Portugal as Pope.
During today's general audience, the Holy Father greeted the people of Portugal in their language, telling them that he will be there this coming weekend at the invitation of the president of the nation and the episcopal conference.
He said he was "happy to be able to visit the 'land of Holy Mary'" on the 10th anniversary of the beatification of the shepherd children.
According to Portuguese press reports, local police are planning for a cumulative total of 450,000 people at the celebrations in Lisbon, Fatima and Portugal during the four-day visit.
This guy is a friend, and someone I admire greatly. I visited him for a few days a couple of weeks ago. His days are busy, but he set aside a little time after dinner each day so that we could sit and gaze out upon Manhattan and talk about God 'n Jesus 'n Stuff.
He knows and likes Benedict XVI. He was a student in Rome and the then cardinal taught some classes.
And he says we need to shut up about all the mitigating stuff and just say over and over that we messed up and just be conspicuous about rooting it out the best we can.
I'm seeing more and more, that whether the mitigating stuff is true or not, people don't want to hear it.
One of the things that happens to me is, like in the case of the Episcopalian guy who was messing around with wimmins in his congregation... I knew his bishop. I knew him to be a good and even a courageous guy. AND I know how all of us who were trained before the late 80's and 90's had ZERO training in this.
So I could understand, while deploring, the almost irresistible urge to sweep it under the rug.
When we start addressing this stuff in the 80's and 90's -- I left the Episcopal ministry and church in 1994 -- there were a number of younger clergy who had come into parishes where this sort of thing had gone on. We ALL had simmering anger and deep distress and felt UTTERLY let down by our bishops. It was like being put in the 'daddy' role in a family where the previous 'daddy' was incestuous. It was crazy and crazy-making and disorienting. For some reasons, nobody in seminary ever told ME that I might be in a situation where some fairly attractive married women were making goo-goo eyes at me. I'm sort of turning to Nancy and saying, "WHAT was THAT?" (not having ths sort of physique that generally gets goo-goo eyes cast upon it.)
Anyway, while I think SOME of the mitigating stuff I write is probably important, I am very open to your being right and Fr Brian being right and frank repentance, 'owning', and moving on, knowing we'll take shots for decades, is probably the way to go.
Thanks for your thoughtful post.
INDEED.
INDEED.
On all counts.
Thanks for your thoughtful and kind response.
I think that’s one of the main things that struck me about his presentation, too.
1. He’s a fine lawyer with a fine mind and a ton of integrity—challenging the center of his obviously sincere faith (i.e. the Vatican).
2. The magicsterical is, the officials are still being as deceptive, lying, flakey, exclusionist, power-mongering, bull-headed, arrogant, self-protective, self-righteous etc. as ever. Not very admirable, that.
3. Whatever the Fatima personage was . . . the implications portend a lot—at least the Vatican system is convinced of that.
I thought it was an interesting presentation—if one cares enough about the topic to patiently hear it out.
INDEED.
Thankfully, Christ warned that the world was evil/mad.
I think that’s the wisest, most Godly post you’ve made on the topic.
Thx.
NEXT TOPIC . . . . PUHHHHHLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!
Certainly.
There is plenty of documented UFO sightings, and people that have claimed to be abducted by aliens, some who have DURING the abduction claimed that praying to Jesus, or asking for Jesus, or saying the name Jesus has promptly stopped the abduction, I don’t know how clear I can make this to you.
So? Claim? You have made it clear that some people claim things. So what? Half the people in this nation who bothered to vote, voted for Obama.
I believe Jesus died for my sins, and rose 3 days later. Being a person of faith, you require hard evidence to believe in something?
Let us separate our faith from our physical reality, hmm? I do not require proof to believe in God. I do require proof to acknowledge physical entities. Do you have that proof?
I could say that Simon Cowell is not actually an English git, but actually the current manifestation of Mephistopheles on Earth, but so what?
Interfering with the world, deceiving many souls, why couldn’t demons visit the earthly plane and deceive the eyes of men?
I'm convinced that they do, but I have no evidence that they occupy the form of aliens.
I don’t understand, you believe in God, but refute that “aliens/UFO’s/abductions could be demonic” in presence.
I don't refute it. I simply am asking that you provide evidence for your claim.
God Almighty is certainly a genius!
There is no proof, but the evidence that there is seems to point in the direction that the devil has deceived the world into believing that UFO’S are aliens, and not fallen angels.
MB, in your engineering studies, where have you found adequate identification of the spirit-body problem to properly frame any query into the separation of the physical universe from the spiritual domain?
I haven’t, but then again perhaps I’ve been scarred in my engineering education by assuming everything we were studying comprised the physical domain and unless the spiritual domain could justifiably integrated into the physical domain, it didn’t exist.
Yet, I also know from faith in Christ and from experience, that domain is very real. I am not appealing to experience for its justification, but I would have to deny real experience to ignore the spiritual domain.
I also know some spiritual persons, with very real character and perception, and volition, can effect physical force by their choosing, while not fully perceptible to us in all our senses.
IMHO, I suspect it might be a leap of justification to conclude these “aliens” are fallen angels, but such an identification is consistent with many reports of their behavior and circumstances surrounding experiences of them.
There are two points to consider:
1. UFOs (such as they are) exist.
2. Fallen angels are UFOS.
I don't think that either statement has been shown satisfactorally.
The study of engineering is on the what-is. The spiritual realm cannot be measured, weighed, experimented on, or any other thing done to it in order to change any aspect of it. I cannot engineer the spiritual realm, as I can the physical one.
I haven’t, but then again perhaps I’ve been scarred in my engineering education by assuming everything we were studying comprised the physical domain and unless the spiritual domain could justifiably integrated into the physical domain, it didn’t exist.
I'm not sure that your studies were complete. Engineering is not about defining reality and non reality. It is about developing principles and practices that work. There are many things that engineering ignores because they have no practical use. Yet there are many things that engineering has only borderline basic knowledge of (e.g. how concrete works), but use extensively simply because we have found out that it does work in certain ways under certain conditions.
Yet, I also know from faith in Christ and from experience, that domain is very real. I am not appealing to experience for its justification, but I would have to deny real experience to ignore the spiritual domain.
Okay. Faith is belief; experience may lead to knowledge, sure.
I also know some spiritual persons, with very real character and perception, and volition, can effect physical force by their choosing, while not fully perceptible to us in all our senses.
If they can, for instance, lessen the mass of a glass of water or a rock while that object is sitting on a weigh scale, then they should have no problem duplicating it in front of the cameras and witnesses.
IMHO, I suspect it might be a leap of justification to conclude these “aliens” are fallen angels, but such an identification is consistent with many reports of their behavior and circumstances surrounding experiences of them.
It is conjecture only at this point. A flight of fancy, as it were.
Try it. You might be surprised at what God gives us when we have been regenerated. The trick, just like in our physical moments prior to the first death, is to remain in faith through Christ in all things. He controls the rest.
If they can, for instance, lessen the mass of a glass of water or a rock while that object is sitting on a weigh scale, then they should have no problem duplicating it in front of the cameras and witnesses.
Even if they did, most people still wouldn't believe it anymore than they have any belief in the reports of what miracles occurred by God for Moses. Additionally, why should they when they aren't here to answer our whims. Lack of evidence by our standards doesn't eliminate their existence any more than atheists can remove the existence of God.
Try what? You speak as one of the elite regenerated. Are you saying that only the regenerated can engineer the spiritual world?
Even if they did, most people still wouldn't believe it anymore than they have any belief in the reports of what miracles occurred by God for Moses. Additionally, why should they when they aren't here to answer our whims. Lack of evidence by our standards doesn't eliminate their existence any more than atheists can remove the existence of God.
I do not claim doubting Thomas standards. Yet I will say that if one wishes to prove the existance of the spiritual world, then have at it. If you claim that people can affect the physical world using the spiritual one, then let's have them on camera in front of witnesses. Or else I will continue to regard them simply as graduates of the Uri Gellar school of advanced spoon bending.
Careful, I might decide to stare at a nearby goat. <8^)
LOL.
I DID enjoy that movie.
???
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