Skip to comments.Pope Benedict to deliver 'intense' message during Fatima visit
Posted on 05/05/2010 10:48:55 AM PDT by markomalley
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Clearly? Well, sure, except that 70,000 people saw it and (a) didn't describe seeing a "craft" of any kind; and (b) didn't describe anything "blotting out the sun"; and (c) saw the sun, not a "craft" piloted by "critters," appear to move around the sky.
So, yeah, if you just ignore all of the eyewitness accounts, it was clearly a UFO. Or maybe it was Obama, visiting from the future, in Air Force One.
The statue of Our Lady of Fatima is seen in the Chapel of Apparitions at Fatima in this 2005 file photo. (CNS/Paul Haring)
That makes no sense.
1. I accepted Fatima as more or less true most of the decades of my life.
2. No, I did not see any percentage of Fatima being true as a wholesale affirmation of the whole Vatican Institution and all it's dogma etc. . . . to put it politely.
3. Because . . . God is incredibly merciful and often meets folks where they are in spite of our silly notions and practices. Sometimes, that may appear to affirm all manner of hideous hogwash when it does not, really. It's "just" God being incredibly merciful in this or that or a few ways--regardless.
4. Satan persistently mixes truth and half-truths with lies. In terms of the Scripture about Jesus being Lord--one Pastor I had taught that the verse meant that no one can say that Jesus is Lord of THEIR lives but by Holy Spirit.
And, we have:
16And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: 17The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
16And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
6. It seems to me, that the verse you cited must mean that no human mortal can say that Jesus is Lord of their life except by Holy Spirit or that no human mortal can say that Jesus is THE LORD except Holy Spirit has convincingly affirmed them of that and they have joined Holy Spirit's confirmation of that with their faith to affirm it as a reality in their life and in the universe in general.
7. We know in another passage:
Some itinerant Jewish exorcists who happened to be in town at the time tried their hand at what they assumed to be Paul's "game." They pronounced the name of the Master Jesus over victims of evil spirits, saying, "I command you by the Jesus preached by Paul!" The seven sons of a certain Sceva, a Jewish high priest, were trying to do this on a man when the evil spirit talked back: "I know Jesus and I've heard of Paul, but who are you?" Then the possessed man went berserkjumped the exorcists, beat them up, and tore off their clothes. Naked and bloody, they got away as best they could.
9. I think the bit about God putting the millstone around His own neck is . . . nonsense on the face of it. It is akin to atheists saying that since all things were created by God, God is the author of evil.
10. I have not examined the whole of the Fatima record in terms of EVERY DETAIL and what parts I'd take as authentic representations of fact and which I would not be so eager to do that on.
11. However, assuming that your initial quote was accurate, it is not beyond my understanding of Scripture for evil forces to use such an opening to begin a seduction of a populace in that era and that place. The higher priority for those forces would have been to be seen as kosher, Christian, Roman Catholic etc. Those forces would have had the LONG term goal in mind--particularly the goal of cementing millions of people to the notion that such forces dispensed Gospel truth--when they were actually deviating ONLY SUFFICIENTLY to result in a horrible trap many decades hence.
12. By telling a very RELIGIOUS, more or less Christian population what they already knew--namely that
13. Would quite likely convince that populace . . . and evidently millions besides . . . that the forces involved were Godly and spoke total truth. What better way to set a RELIGIOUS or spiritual populace up for subtle seduction--particularly over a considerable to lengthy period of time?
14. Again, Fatima being true had no real bearing, to me, on the validity of the whole Vatican Institution and still doesn't. As I've noted, GOD IS INCREDIBLY MERCIFUL in spite of a LOT of our silly notions and practices.
15. ACTUALLY, the messages of Fatima have paralleled a long list of such messages from UFO critters in varous formats, venues, charicterizations, details etc.
16. If one compiles a lot of them together, few of them agree on varying details of varying significance.
17. However, most of them speak of the world headed for chastisement; a NEW AGE; a NEW WORLD ORDER once the 'evil' has been expunged, dealt with, wiped clean, overcome, obliterated, buried under volcanic and other chaos etc. etc. etc.
18. Certainly Scripture agrees.
19. However, SCRIPTURE ALSO NOTES that the END TIMES DECEPTION WILL BE SO GREAT THAT IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, THE VERY ELECT OF GOD, BELIEVERS THEMSELVES WOULD BELIEVE THE LIE.
20. I think Christians of all stripes minimize that hazard out of their own pride . . . personal pride and pride in their own IN-GROUP and their reference IN-GROUP'S DOGMA.
21. ONE of the distortions--subtle to not so subtle--of Fatima is that MARY IS THE DEITY FIGURE GIVING INSTRUCTIONS, PROMISING TO SAVE THE WORLD--IF--IF--THE WORLD COMPLIES WITH HER INSTRUCTIONS, SHE IS THE MAJOR ACTING-IN-CHARGE-PERSONAGE ON THE SCENE--NOT JESUS. It's not even an obviously kosher angel from The Lord's Presence as occurs so much in the Old and New Testaments--speaking of JESUS being in charge and actively involved in Saving the world.
NO! It's this caricatured Mary personage and her drawing the world to focus on HER HEART.
22. It is MARY'S 'IMMACULATE HEART' that is an emphasis--NOT JESUS' BLOOD, NOR EVEN SCRIPTURE.
There is also an emphasis on RITUALS ASSOCIATED PRIMARILY WITH MARY.
The pseudo-REDEMPTIVE ELEMENT offered to the world is:
[ The Message ] I can't believe your ficklenesshow easily you have turned traitor to him who called you by the grace of Christ by embracing a variant message! It is not a minor variation, you know; it is completely other, an alien message, a no-message, a lie about God. Those who are provoking this agitation among you are turning the Message of Christ on its head. Let me be blunt: If one of useven if an angel from heaven!were to preach something other than what we preached originally, let him be cursed. I said it once; I'll say it again: If anyone, regardless of reputation or credentials [REGARDLESS of related DRAMATIC SOUND & LIGHT SHOWS; MASS HYPNOSIS TECHNIQUES AND TECHNOLOGIES; regardless of the presence of a personage purporting to be Mary--IF ANYONE OR ANYTHING], preaches something other than what you received originally, let him be cursed.
May God have mercy on us and protect us from ANY deviation from our focus on CHRIST ALONE, CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED, THE REDEMPTIVE BLOOD OF JESUS.
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence SHE PARTICIPATES------>IN<-------the INFINITE SANCTITY of GOD."
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]
9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]
5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."
--from John Ferraro's TEN SERIES OF MEDITATIONS ON THE MYSTERIES OF THE ROSARY
Kind of tough to ignore three pages of big blue .... stuff.
VERY GOOD POINTS! I THINK THE CAUTION THEY HAVE AS A CHRISTIAN TURNS INTO PARANOIA BECAUSE IT JUST DOES NOT COMPUTE TO WHAT THEY PERCIEVED TO BE THEIR CHRISTIAN WORLD VIEW OF THE SCRIPTURES AND CHURCH. THE REAL VISIONS DECLARE CHRIST CAME IN THE FLESH AND UPHOLD CHRIST IN THE GOSPELS. I LEFT THE CHURCH FOR 5 YEARS BUT REALIZED THE TRUTH BEHIND THESE VISIONS AND OTHER TRUTHS. DURING THESE YEARS I WOULD GO TO CHRISTIAN BOOKSTORES AND THEY WOULD HAVE FOXES BOOK OF MATYRS AND WHORE OF BABLYON NONSENSE BOOKS GALORE WHICH ARE SO MALICIOUSLY FRAUDULENT HALF TRUTHS THAT THE NAIVE WOULD BELIEVE. NOW I REMEMBER THIS PARANOIA WHICH THEY THINK IS CAUTION. WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS THERE ARE EXPLICIT AND WHAT IS NOT DIRECTLY EXPRESSED THEOLOGY IN THE SCRIPTURES. FIRST CAME THE CHURCH THEN THE REST THE COUNCILS AND BIBLE. ALSO WOULD THERE NOT BE A CARETAKERS OF THE CHURCH THAT HAVE CONTINUED TO DECIDE RIGHT RULE OF LIVING AS CHRISTIANS. ONLY ONE MAIN BRANCH FOR 2000 YEARS CLAIMS THIS! ITS THE OLDEST ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD WOULD NOT GOD GUIDE IN GOOD TIMES AND BAD. THE CHURCH THAT WROTE THE BOOK. I ‘LL GO BY THE AUTHORS OF THE BOOK ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. NOW SWIMMING THE TIBER. YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD PAPIST!
That depends on which sources you read.
Good, solid research into original documents as well as eye-witness testimony has indicated something else quite different from many eyewitness observers . . .
essentially . . .
a CRAFT . . . the descriptions of which match identically
thousands of other descriptions of UFO’s over the centuries and particularly in this one.
He can’t understand the love poetry for our Mother. He doesn’t understand that some writing is not official. You know private revelation from public revelation. He goes to personal commentaries as official. Interjects everywhere. Do you remember this in LUKE 1:17And he will go on before the Lord, in the SPIRIT and POWER of ELIJAH, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteousto make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” Now what if you put the spirit of Mary as same. GEE whose spirit is it. Hello! could be the Holy Spirit!! What paranoia!!
NOPE. Some folks make detecting
UNMITIGATED UNBIBLICAL NONSENSE
I see someone else has a copy of the Vatican Rubber Dictionary.
Also in that verse is a good point for the unity of the Holy Spirit in the believer. The Angel is saying that its the spirit of Elijah so can Mary or anyone who is in the Holy Spirit use that as a personal pronoun to mean that they are in the Holy Spirit? Weeellll if the Angel in scripture can say it!!! HHHMMM God is allowing it! Because it is another way of saying the Truth. You know what we say in Mass, In Him With HIm IN the UNITY Of the HOLY SPIRIT. Praise JESUS AND HAIL MARY INDEED!!! Your Friendly Neighborhood Papist still swimming the Tiber come on in the waters just grand!
1) Speaking as a mother, "love poetry" sounds pretty creepy when directed at a mother by anyone but her husband. Maybe this peculiar inclination is why is seems so easy for Roman Catholics to slavishly call fellow sinners "Father" when the Bible tells us not to. Or to overlook the pederasty among its priests because it perverts what "mother" and "father" and "love" all mean. Blind sublimation is never good.
2) She's NOT your mother.
No, the Blessed Mother is not YOUR mother.
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." -- Matthew 12:48-50
"Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." -- Matthew 12:48-50
Repeating the same errors over and over does not turn them into truth. RCs can believe Mary is their mother till Judgment Day, and it still will be a foul and dangerous lie which detracts from the glory that is due the Triune God alone.
"An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God's true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her."
TREATISE ON TRUE DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
St. Louis de Montfort
God forbid. Let us pray Ratzinger's last foray into world politics, his communist manifesto on the need for a "global authority," is his last.
Stick to what you think you know, Joe.
"Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." -- Matthew 12:48-50
As I was saying, she is not YOUR mother.
RCs can believe Mary is their mother till Judgment Day,
I'm shocked that Calvinists even speak of Judgment Day, I thought in Calvin's Cosmic Lottery one was either among the elect or they weren't.
it still will be a foul and dangerous lie which detracts from the glory that is due the Triune God alone.
Like modern-say spy movies, the foul and dangerous lie has an acronym: TULIP.
Her Mother stint in the flesh is long over . . . and the children she is reportedly teaching in Heaven are a finite number.