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Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint
CatholicApologetics.org ^ | 1985-1991 | Dr. Robert Schihl and Paul Flanagan

Posted on 05/06/2010 9:46:10 PM PDT by Salvation

Catholic Biblical Apologetics


Apologetics without apology!


What does the Roman Catholic Church teach about ...? ... and why?

This website surveys the origin and development of Roman Catholic Christianity from the period of the apostolic church, through the post-apostolic church and into the conciliar movement. Principal attention is paid to the biblical basis of both doctrine and dogma as well as the role of paradosis (i.e. handing on the truth) in the history of the Church. Particular attention is also paid to the hierarchical founding and succession of leadership throughout the centuries.

This is a set of lecture notes used since 1985 to teach the basis for key doctrines and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. The objectives of the course were, and are:

The course grew out of the need for the authors to continually answer questions about their faith tradition and their work. (Both authors are active members of Catholic parish communities in the Diocese of Richmond, Virginia. Dr. Robert Schihl was a Professor and Associate Dean of the School of Communication and the Arts at Regent University. Paul Flanagan is a consultant specializing in preparing people for technology based changes.) At the time these notes were first prepared, the authors were spending time in their faith community answering questions about their Protestant Evangelical workplaces (Mr. Flanagan was then a senior executive at the Christian Broadcasting Network), and time in their workplaces answering similar questions about their Roman Catholic faith community. These notes are the result of more than a decade of facilitating dialogue among those who wish to learn more about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and why.

Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint

Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint

Catholic Christians look to the development over time of Biblical faith. This follows from Jesus' promise to send the Holy Spirit to reveal more things than He would tell His Apostles. This deepening of understanding God's Truth is evidenced in the definitions of the truth about the Trinity and the natures of Christ in the early Church councils.

Catholics also believe that the Bible does not record all the revealed Word of God. The Word of God in paradosis or tradition under the guidance of the Holy Spirit cannot contradict anything in the Bible, nor be absent from the constant faith of the believing Church.

Some understanding of the truth of God passed on by the believing Church (paradosis, tradition) later defined as revealed truth concerns Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Catholics believe, as did the Protestant Reformers, that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus. Catholics believe the truth of the Bible that the Redemption of Jesus freed all believers from the original sin of Adam and its consequence, death.

On the basis of Bible truths from Genesis to Revelation, Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the first to believe, and the first to reap both benefits from her Son's Redemption.

Mary's freedom from original sin is called her Immaculate Conception; her immediate entrance into Heaven at the completion of her life is called her Assumption.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: blessedvirginmary; catholic; catholiclist; saints
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1 posted on 05/06/2010 9:46:10 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: All
May Devotion: Blessed Virgin Mary
The Virgin Mary as Our Lady of Grace

Since the 16th century Catholic piety has assigned entire months to special devotions. Toward the end of the eighteenth century a zealous Jesuit priest, Father Lalomia, started among the students of the Roman college of his Society the practice of dedicating May to Our Lady. The devotion, which others had promoted in a small way, soon spread to other Jesuit Colleges and to the entire Latin church and since that time it has been a regular feature of Catholic life.

INVOCATIONS

Thou who wast a virgin before thy delivery, pray for us. Hail Mary, etc.
Thou who wast a virgin in thy delivery, pray for us. Hail Mary, etc.
Thou who wast a virgin after thy delivery, pray for us. Hail Mary, etc.

My Mother, deliver me from mortal sin.
Hail Mary (three times).

Mother of love, of sorrow and of mercy, pray for us.

Remember, O Virgin Mother of God, when thou shalt stand before the face of the Lord, that thou speak favorable things in our behalf and that He may turn away His indignation from us.
Roman Missal

Thou art my Mother, O Virgin Mary: keep me safe lest I ever offend thy dear Son, and obtain for me the grace to please Him always and in all things.

FOR THE HELP OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY

May we be assisted, we beseech Thee, 0 Lord, by the worshipful intercession of Thy glorious Mother, the ever-Virgin Mary; that we, who have been enriched by her perpetual blessings, may be delivered from all dangers, and through her loving kindness made to be of one heart and mind: who livest and reignest world without end. Amen.
Roman Missal

THE SALVE REGINA

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve! To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears! Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy towards us; and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus! O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!
Roman Breviary

PRAYER TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY

O blessed Virgin Mary, who can worthily repay thee thy just dues of praise and thanksgiving, thou who by the wondrous assent of thy will didst rescue a fallen world? What songs of praise can our weak human nature recite in thy honor, since it is by thy intervention alone that it has found
the way to restoration? Accept, then, such poor thanks as we have here to offer, though they be unequal to thy merits; and, receiving our vows, obtain by thy prayers the remission of our offenses. Carry thou our prayers within the sanctuary of the heavenly audience, and bring forth from it the antidote of our reconciliation. May the sins we bring before Almighty God through thee, become pardonable through thee; may what we ask for with sure confidence, through thee be granted. Take our offering, grant us our requests, obtain pardon for what we fear, for thou art the sole hope of sinners. Through thee we hope for the remission of our sins, and in thee, 0 blessed Lady, is our hope of reward. Holy Mary, succour the miserable, help the fainthearted, comfort the sorrowful, pray for thy people, plead for the clergy, intercede for all women consecrated to God; may all who keep thy holy commemoration feel now thy help and protection. Be thou ever ready to assist us when we pray, and bring back to us the answers to our prayers. Make it thy continual care to pray for the people of God, thou who, blessed by God, didst merit to bear the Redeemer of the world, who liveth and reigneth, world without end. Amen.
Saint Augustine

PETITION TO MARY

Most holy Virgin Immaculate, my Mother Mary, to thee who art the Mother of my Lord, the queen of the universe, the advocate, the hope, the refuge of sinners, I who am the most miserable of all sinners, have recourse this day. I venerate thee, great queen, and I thank thee for the many graces thou hast bestowed upon me even unto this day; in particular for having delivered me from the hell which I have so often deserved by my sins. I love thee, most dear Lady; and for the love I bear thee, I promise to serve thee willingly for ever and to do what I can to make thee loved by others also. I place in thee all my hopes for salvation; accept me as thy servant and shelter me under thy mantle, thou who art the Mother of mercy. And since thou art so powerful with God, deliver me from all temptations, or at least obtain for me the strength to overcome them until death. From thee I implore a true love for Jesus Christ. Through thee I hope to die a holy death. My dear Mother, by the love thou bearest to Almighty God, I pray thee to assist me always, but most of all at the last moment of my life. Forsake me not then, until thou shalt see me safe in heaven, there to bless thee and sing of thy mercies through all eternity. Such is my hope. Amen.
Saint Alphonsus Liguori

Blessed Virgin Mary Magnificat Prayer
My being proclaims the greatness of the Lord, my spirit finds joy in God my savior,
For he has looked upon his servant in her lowliness; all ages to come shall call me blessed.
God who is mighty has done great things for me,
holy is his name; His mercy is from age to age on those who fear him. He has shown might with his arm; he has confused the proud in their inmost thoughts. He has deposed the mighty from their thrones and raised the lowly to high places. The hungry he has given every good thing, while the rich he has sent empty away. He has upheld Israel his servant, ever mindful of his mercy; Even as he promised our fathers, promised Abraham and his descendants forever.
(Lk 1:46-55) 

Seen above is the Blessed Virgin Mary, portrayed as Our Lady of Perpetual Help.
It was she who was chosen by God, to provide His Son with His Sacred Humanity.
She did so in humble and total cooperation with the Holy Spirit and the Divine will of the Holy Trinity; providing God's Son with the Blood He shed for us on the Cross.

TO MARY, REFUGE OF SINNERS
Hail, most gracious Mother of mercy, hail, Mary, for whom we fondly yearn, through whom we obtain forgiveness! Who would not love thee? Thou art our light in uncertainty, our comfort in sorrow, our solace in the time of trial, our refuge from every peril and temptation. Thou art our sure hope of salvation, second only to thy only-begotten Son; blessed are they who love thee, our Lady! Incline, I beseech thee, thy ears of pity to the entreaties of this thy servant, a miserable sinner; dissipate the darkness of my sins by the bright beams of thy holiness, in order that I may be acceptable in thy sight.

FOR THE GRACE OF LOVE
O Mary, my dear Mother, how much I love thee! And yet in reality how little! Thou dost teach me what I ought to know, for thou teachest me what Jesus is to me and what I ought to be for Jesus. Dearly beloved Mother, how close to God thou art, and how utterly filled with Him! In the measure that we know God, we remind ourselves of thee. Mother of God, obtain for me the grace of loving my Jesus; obtain for me the grace of loving thee!
Cardinal Merry del Val

TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY FOR MAY

O most august and blessed Virgin Mary! Holy Mother of God! glorious Queen of heaven and earth! powerful protectress of those who love thee, and unfailing advocate of all who invoke thee! look down, I beseech thee, from thy throne of glory on thy devoted child; accept the solemn offering I present thee of this month, specially dedicated to thee, and receive my ardent, humble desire, that by my love and fervor I could worthily honor thee, who, next to God, art deserving of all honor. Receive me, 0 Mother of Mercy, among thy best beloved children; extend to me thy maternal tenderness and solicitude; obtain for me a place in the Heart of Jesus, and a special share in the gifts of His grace. 0 deign, I beseech thee, to recognize my claims on thy protection, to watch over my spiritual and temporal interests, as well as those of all who are dear to me; to infuse into my soul the spirit of Christ, and to teach me thyself to become meek, humble, charitable, patient, and submissive to the will of God.

May my heart bum with the love of thy Divine Son, and of thee, His blessed Mother, not for a month alone, but for time and eternity; may I thirst for the promotion of His honor and thine, and contribute, as far as I can, to its extension. Receive me, 0 Mary, the refuge of sinners! Grant me a Mother's blessing and a Mother's care, now, and at the hour of my death. Amen.

TO OUR LADY

Saint John Vianney, better known as the Cure of Ars, when asked how long he had loved Mary, said: "I loved her almost before I could know her." In this prayer he expresses that love.
O thou most holy virgin Mary, who dost evermore stand before the most holy Trinity, and to whom it is granted at all times to pray for us to thy most beloved Son; pray for me in all my necessities; help me, combat for me, and obtain for me the pardon of all my sins. Help me especially at my last hour; and when I can no longer give any sign of the use of reason, then do thou encourage me, make the sign of the cross for me, and fight for me against the enemy. Make in my name a profession of faith; favor me with a testimony of my salvation, and never let me despair of the mercy of God. Help me to overthrow the wicked enemy. When I can no longer say: "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, I place my soul in your hands," do thou say it for me; when I can no longer hear human words of consolation, do thou comfort me. Leave me not before I have been judged; and if I have to expiate my sins in purgatory, oh! pray for me earnestly; and admonish my friends to procure for me a speedy enjoyment of the blessed sight of God. Lessen my sufferings, deliver me speedily, and lead my soul into heaven with thee: that, united with all the elect, I may there bless and praise my God and thee for all eternity. Amen.
Saint John Vianney

ACT OF REPARATION

O blessed Virgin, Mother of God, look down in mercy from heaven, where thou art enthroned as Queen, upon me, a miserable sinner, thine unworthy servant. Although I know full well my own unworthiness, yet in order to atone for the offenses that are done to thee by impious and blasphemous
tongues, from the depths of my heart I praise and extol thee as the purest, the fairest, the holiest creature of all God's handiwork. I bless thy holy name, I praise thine exalted privilege of being truly Mother of God, ever virgin, conceived without stain of sin, co-redemptrix of the human race. I bless the Eternal Father who chose thee in an especial way for His daughter; I bless the Word Incarnate who took upon Himself our nature in thy bosom and so made thee His Mother; I bless the Holy Spirit who took thee as His bride. All honor, praise and thanksgiving to the ever-blessed Trinity, who predestined thee and loved thee so exceedingly from all eternity as to exalt thee above all creatures to the most sublime heights. 0 Virgin, holy and merciful, obtain for all who offend thee the grace of repentance, and graciously accept this poor act of homage from me thy servant, obtaining likewise for me from thy divine Son the pardon and remission of all my sins. Amen.

Prayer Source: Prayer Book, The by Reverend John P. O'Connell, M.A., S.T.D. and Jex Martin, M.A., The Catholic Press, Inc., Chicago, Illinois, 1954

 

Memorare of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Blessed Virgin Mary

 

Remember O Most Gracious Virgin Mary!

That never was it known
That anyone who fled to thy protection,
Implored thy help or sought thy intercession
Was left unaided.

Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto Thee!
O Virgin of virgins, My Mother!

To Thee I come before Thee I stand,
Sinful and Sorrowful,
Oh Mother of the Word Incarnate,
Despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy,
Hear and answer me.


Amen

May Devotion: Blessed Virgin Mary

Discovering Mary [Excellent New Book For Converts]
Beginning Our Lady's Month [Catholic Caucus]
Give it all to Mary [Catholic Caucus]
JESUS LIVING IN MARY: HANDBOOK, SPIRITUALITY OF ST. LOUIS DE MONTFORT, ROSARY [Ecumenical]
Mary, Tabernacle of the Lord By Archbishop Fulton Sheen(Catholic Caucus)

A Protestant Discovers Mary
Mary is our Mother and Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom (Scriptures Agree With Catholic Church)
Hail Mary
Holy Water Silhouette (Virgin Mary -video))
How could Mary be the Mother of God?
Mary, the Mother of God (a defense)
Calling Mary “Mother of God” Tells Us Who Jesus Is
The Holy Spirit And Mary (Catholic Caucus)
Mary, Our Cause of Rejoicing
Mary in Byzantine Doctrine and Devotion (Catholic / Orthodox Caucus)

Radio Replies First Volume - Devotion to Mary
The Blessed Virgin Mary and the Catholic Discovery of America(Catholic Caucus)
Mary is the star that guides us to holiness, says Holy Father during Angelus [Catholic Caucus]
The Efficacy and Power of One Hail Mary [Ecumenical]
When Did Belief in the Virgin Birth Begin?
Mary, Motherhood, and the Home BY Archbishop Fulton Sheen
On Mary, Mother of Priests
Benedict reflects on Mary and the priesthood [Catholic Caucus]
Radio Replies First Volume - Mary
Scholar says Baptists neglect lessons from Virgin Mary

Mary and the Sword Continued Part #2 by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
Mary and the Sword by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen(Catholic Caucus)
Why Did Mary Offer a Sin Offering? [Ecumenical]
Mary and Intercessory Prayer
Mary: Holy Mother
Mary not just for Catholics anymore
Pope concludes Month of Mary in the Vatican Gardens
Consecration to Mary(Catholic Caucus)
Mary’s Marching Orders
Praying the Hail Mary Like Never Before [Ecumenical]

Our Lady of the Most Blessed Sacrament [Catholic Caucus]
Catholic Caucus: The Catechism of St. Thomas Aquinas - THE HAIL MARY
Our Jewish Roots: The Immaculate Conception [Ecumenical]
The Blessed Virgin in the History of Christianity [Ecumenical]
Archbishop Sheen Today! -- Mary and the Moslems
Mary Immaculate: Patroness of the United States [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
"The Woman He Loved": Fulton Sheen and the Blessed Mother(Catholic Caucus)
September 12: The Most Holy Name of Mary and Militant Islam
Catholic Devotional: Feast of the Holy Name of Mary
A Homily on the Feast of the Most Holy Name of Mary
Catholic Caucus: Mary, The Power of Her Name [The Most Holy Name of the Blessed Virgin Mary]

2 posted on 05/06/2010 9:47:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: nickcarraway; Lady In Blue; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; Catholicguy; RobbyS; markomalley; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

3 posted on 05/06/2010 9:49:11 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All

"Never apologize for the

Blessed Virgin Mary!"

~~Mother Angelica


4 posted on 05/06/2010 9:50:28 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All
 
Pray the Rosary. 
Pray without ceasing.

5 posted on 05/06/2010 9:52:39 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All
Foundation

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Foundation: Apologetics Without Apology
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Foundation: An Incomplete Picture
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Foundation: Dearly Beloved Catholic Brothers and Sisters

Being Catholic and Christian: Faith and Salvation

Catholic Biblical Apologetics:Being Catholic & Christian:Faith and Salvation-Authoriative
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Being Catholic & Christian: Apostolic Confessions of Faith
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Post-Apostolic Confessions of Faith
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: A Biblical Portrait
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: "Being Saved"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Catholic Response to "Are You Saved?"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Knowledge of Salvation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Faith and Works
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Process of Christian Initiation

The Church: A Biblical Portrait - A New Testament Apologetic

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Church: A Biblical Portrait - A New Testament Apologetic: Jesus Christ preached a Reign or Kingdom, the Kingdom of God (or of heaven).
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Jesus preached an end-times kingdom but one already existing on earth
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Jesus preached that the kingdom was primarily spiritual and internal but also visible and external.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ called and founded an exclusive, inner core group of twelve men called the "apostles."
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ committed His very mission to this twelve man inner core group, his Apostles, alone.
Christ gave to the Twelve, the Apostles, the power of ruling, teaching and sanctifying.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: This same church Christ willed to endure until the end of the world.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ instituted only one church, and that society was both formally and specifically a visible one.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Marks of the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Labels Among Christians
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Genealogy of Christian Faith Communities, Roman Catholicism
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: American Christian Branches Among European Founded Churches
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Modes of Transmitting Authoritative Doctrine

The Church: A Biblical Portrait - A New Testament Apologetic

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Church: A Biblical Portrait - A New Testament Apologetic: Jesus Christ preached a Reign or Kingdom, the Kingdom of God (or of heaven).
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Jesus preached an end-times kingdom but one already existing on earth
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Jesus preached that the kingdom was primarily spiritual and internal but also visible and external.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ called and founded an exclusive, inner core group of twelve men called the "apostles."
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ committed His very mission to this twelve man inner core group, his Apostles, alone.
Christ gave to the Twelve, the Apostles, the power of ruling, teaching and sanctifying.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: This same church Christ willed to endure until the end of the world.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ instituted only one church, and that society was both formally and specifically a visible one.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Marks of the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Labels Among Christians
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Genealogy of Christian Faith Communities, Roman Catholicism
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: American Christian Branches Among European Founded Churches
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Modes of Transmitting Authoritative Doctrine

Divine Revelation "By Letter" (2 Thes 2:15) The Bible

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Divine Revelation "By Letter" (2 Thess 2:15): The Bible
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Divine Revelation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Bible: Written Revelation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Hebrew Scriptures: Books of the Old Testament
Historical and Geographical Background for the Development of the Two Old Testament Canons
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Background Chart: Development of the Old Testament Canons
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Chronology of the Apostolic Age and the Development of the New Testament Canon
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Comparison of Terms for Disputed Books
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Inspiration of the Bible
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Understanding Revelation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Understanding Revelation: Literal Sense
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Literary Form and History of John 6:25-69
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Interpretation of John 6:25-69
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Fuller Sense (of Scripture)
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Typical Sense (of Scripture)
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Major Church Pronouncements on the Bible

Divine Revelation "By Word of Mouth" (2 Thess 2:15): Handing On

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Divine Revelation "By Word of Mouth" (2 Thess 2:15): Handing On
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Paradosis: Handing On Divine Revelation (Orally)
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Biblical Model for Handing On Truth and Refuting Error: Acts 15, The Council of Jerusalem
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Acts 15 Model: General or Ecumenical Councils of the Church Universal
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 49-870
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 1123-1545
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 1870-1962
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Apostolic Fathers of the Church
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Post-Apostolic Fathers of the Church
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Doctors of the Church
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Handing On Divine Revelation: Vatican Council II

Truth Handling and Teaching Authority

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Truth Handling and Teaching Authority
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Peter: A Biblical Portrait
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Matthew Chapter 16, Verse 18: The Primacy of Peter
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Charism of Truth Handling: Infallibility
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishop of Rome
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, First and Second Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Third and Fourth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Third and Fourth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Seventh and Eighth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Ninth and Tenth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Eleventh and Twelfth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Thirteenth and Fourteenth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Nineteenth, Twentieth and Twenty-First Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Charism of Infallibility: The Magisterium, Vatican Council II, The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Chapter 25

The Sacraments: The Life of The Christian

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: The Life of The Christian
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: Opportunities of Grace
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Baptism: Initiation and Regeneration
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: Opportunities of Grace: Reconciliation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Confirmation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: The Eucharist: The Lord's Supper
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Healing/Anointing of the Sick
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Matrimony
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: [Holy] Orders

The Communion of Saints

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: A Biblical Portrait of Saint
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: The Canon of Holiness
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: The Role of the Saints
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: The Intercession of the Saints: How Do Saints Hear Us
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Canonization of Saints: Current Canonization Process, Biblical Description of Miracles
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Images and Relics of the Saints. The Incorruptibles
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: Praying to the Saints/Praying for the Dead

Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint

6 posted on 05/06/2010 9:57:17 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...

SIGH.

I respect you and your Christian relationship with God.

I cannot respect a shred of this UnBiblical nonsense.


7 posted on 05/06/2010 10:19:43 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

You must have NOT read the last paragraph of yesterday’s thread. I’ll post it again for you.


8 posted on 05/06/2010 10:21:32 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Quix
Here you go:

From the earliest of Church Councils (the Council of Rome, 993; defined by the Council of Trent) the distinction was made between worship and honor. Catholics believe that worship is due to God alone. Catholics honor those saints who have gone before us as a sign of faith and victory in living the Christian life.

9 posted on 05/06/2010 10:24:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Y’all wouldn’t need to if she weren’t given undue focus and attention.


10 posted on 05/06/2010 10:27:05 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Salvation

I’ve read such repeatedly hereon.

It’s a distinction without a difference.

Y’all’s actions scream much, much louder than such words.

Even your words in piles of documents scream to the contrary.

God have mercy.


11 posted on 05/06/2010 10:29:04 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
I've got a question for you...........

Do you honor your mother on Mother's Day? On other days during the year?

12 posted on 05/06/2010 10:31:04 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Quix

As Mother Angelica says in the quote above, Quix, you may be the one needing mercy.


13 posted on 05/06/2010 10:32:27 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Quix

**I’ve read such repeatedly hereon.**

Then why don’t you believe it?


14 posted on 05/06/2010 10:32:55 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...

Yes. Both my moms when they were alive in this dimension.

That’s a straw dog, BTW.

Y’all have built an UNBiblical ton of sky scrapers on the foundation of a splinter from the toothpick of “honor.”


15 posted on 05/06/2010 10:45:54 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Salvation

BECAUSE

such is BRAZENLY UNTRUE,

BRAZENLY UNBIBLICAL.


16 posted on 05/06/2010 10:46:30 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
It is not biblically untrue.

Did Christ honor his mother?

Hint: It's in the Bible -- "He went up to Nazareth with them and was obedient unto them."

That's honor.

If Christ honored his own Mother then isn't is also possible for me to honor her as the Mother of Christ, true man and true God?

17 posted on 05/06/2010 10:53:09 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...

I think you know . . .

that our view from

ABUNDANT TEXTUAL EVIDENCE

AND ABUNDANT PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS

AND ABUNDANT TESTIMONY OF MANY FOLKS WHO’VE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT

IS ALL CONSISTENT WITH SCRIPTURE

and contrary to the spin put on Scripture and the spin put on Roman Catholic beliefs by those who have an intense commitment TO THE INSTITUTION

and to continuing as they have been for however many years.

It’s not about kosher honor.

THAT’S A STRAW DOG.


18 posted on 05/06/2010 11:35:06 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

“and contrary to the spin put on Scripture and the spin put on Roman Catholic beliefs by those who have an intense commitment TO THE INSTITUTION”

Still parading that tired, false argument around, Quix?

It’s as invalid a claim now as it was months ago when I started reading your assertions regarding the Catholic Church.

I’m a convert to Catholicism. A very thankful, blessed & happy Catholic. Jesus Christ is Lord & the focus of my life. I am so thankful for the Mass & the Grace God pours upon us there & through the Sacraments Christ commanded.

I respectfully ask you, Quix to please cease & desist making these false claims against the Catholic Church because they have no basis in reality.

May the Peace of Our Lord, Jesus Christ always be with you.


19 posted on 05/07/2010 4:47:16 AM PDT by TheStickman
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To: Salvation

If one honors Mary through faith in Christ, it is for divine good, but if one honors Mary independent of faith through Christ it is sin.


20 posted on 05/07/2010 5:05:50 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Quix; Salvation

It is not a straw dog. You saying it is a straw dog does not make it one.

Salvation, it looks like you’re going to have to make these threads caucus to keep the Usual Suspects from trashing them. They put their muddy footprints all over a decent meditation and prayer time. The LAST thing anyone needs here on this beautiful thread is people trying to start an argument.


21 posted on 05/07/2010 7:20:29 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: TheStickman; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...

PRAISE GOD

if it’s not true for you.

It IS true for millions of folks under the Vatican umbrella.

It is false to contend otherwise.

If the Institution poiced itself instead of aiding and abetting rank idolatry and blasphemy, I wouldn’t bother.

It doesn’t.

It defends such outrages fiercely.

It is Prottys duty before God to similarly raise a fierce cry in behalf of THE TRUTH.


22 posted on 05/07/2010 7:41:49 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr

CERTAINLY IMPORTANT.

I think the

DEGREE OF HONOR . . . as well as the motivation

are issues, as well.


23 posted on 05/07/2010 7:44:28 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Judith Anne

Amen!!!


24 posted on 05/07/2010 7:46:55 AM PDT by TheStickman
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To: Quix

“It IS true for millions of folks under the Vatican umbrella.”

Now you’re a mind reader & have been ‘granted’ the ability to know what “millions of folks” think & believe in. Being grandiose is ‘biblical’ in what way, pray tell?

“If the Institution poiced itself instead of aiding and abetting rank idolatry and blasphemy, I wouldn’t bother.”

Calling a cat a dog doesn’t make it so. I forgive you for trying to pass off this false notion as a fact.


25 posted on 05/07/2010 7:53:40 AM PDT by TheStickman
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To: Salvation

that is all nice and good...but how does it help people to connect to their holy spirit/ conscience..and detach from the evil one that talks to us in our thoughts? I am sorry, but the church has lost the art of true prayer and the fhu.com has rediscovered it. Setting people trully free and happy..the be still execise...as used by thousands in the military to help them to overcome simply their battle trauma.


26 posted on 05/07/2010 7:57:10 AM PDT by fabian
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To: fabian

the Be Still Exercise! oops, mispelled there.


27 posted on 05/07/2010 7:58:10 AM PDT by fabian
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To: Salvation

http://www.apelosurgentes.com.br/mensagens_ing.php THIS PEDRO REGIS VISIONS OF Message 3314 from Our Lady, Queen of Peace, Montes Claros, MG. transmitted in 02/05/2010

Dear Sons and Daughters, I come from heaven to bless you and lead you to My Son Jesus. Be docil. Fear not. Don´t back away. Happen what may, don´t let the flame of faith go out in you. I ask you to be faithful to My Son Jesus. Don´t let yourselves be contaminated by the things of the world, for you belong only to The Lord, and should follow only Him. Humanity has become spiritually poor because people have gone away from God. I suffer because of what awaits you. Bend your knees in prayer. There will be no defeat for those chosen by God. You will yet have great suffering, but trust in God. Your victory is in Him. A frightening phenomenon will happen in the sea of Galilee and no one will have an explanation. I am yo ur Mom and I never get tired. Be meek and humble of heart. I come from heaven to make you men and women of faith. Forward without fear. I will speak to My Jesus for you. Courage. This is the message I transmit to you today in the name of The Most Holy Trinity. Thank you for permitting Me to reunite you here once more. I bless you in the name of The Father, of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace.

Message 3313 from Our Lady, Queen of Peace, Anguera BA. Brazil. transmitted in 01/05/2010

Dear Sons and Daughters, I love you as you are and I am always at your side, even though you don´t see Me. You are important for the realization of My plans and I come from heaven to call you to a sincere conversion. Fear not. Nothing is lost. Trust fully in My Son Jesus and you will be victorious. I will speak to My Jesus for you. I invite you to live My appeals. Humanity is sick and needs to be healed. Open your hearts to the God of salvation and peace. Flee from evil and seek strength in prayer and the Eucharist. When all seems lost, a great victory will come to you. Behold, the times I predicted have come. Return quickly. I don´t want to obligate you, but what I say must be taken seriously. Something sorrowful will happen in Italy. No greater sorrow existed. Similar suffering will come to the residents of the Amazon. Bend your knees in prayer. God will save you. Forward. This is the message I transmit to you today in the Name of The Most Holy Trinity. Thank you for permitting Me to reunite you here once more. I bless you in The name of The Father, of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace.


28 posted on 05/07/2010 8:07:34 AM PDT by johngrace
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To: Cvengr

**If one honors Mary through faith in Christ, it is for divine good**

Exactly!


29 posted on 05/07/2010 8:25:49 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Judith Anne; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...

See below re straw dogs and straw men.

I gather, given the context, recent threads etc.

that you think the thread itself was not kicking sand in Prottys eyes.

LOL.

Now, if RC’s could persuade the FR PTB to have a sheltered caucus category/option wherein only members of the caucus COULD SEE such threads, that would be wonderful. Prottys would not feel so duty bound to state the Biblical, psychological, sociological, historical, spiritual Truths by contrast.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

1. MOST of y’all have the horse sense to KNOW that Prottys are NOT talking about fitting honor of Mary.

2. MOST of y’all have the horse sense to KNOW that an unknown percentage of those who go by the name Roman Catholic et al DO HAVE AN INORDINATE, IDOLATROUS, BLASPHEMOUS FOCUS ON [the caricatured pseudo-personage labeled] “Mary, MOTHER OF GOD.”

3. MOST of y’all have the horse sense to KNOW that MOST of us Prottys are addressing THAT percentage of Roman Catholics et al about THAT level of idolatry and blasphemy.

3. MOST Prottys have the horse sense to know that probably MOST RC’s are understandably terrified that to the degree that Prottys accurately-before-God identify a serious level of idolatry and blasphemy for ANY significant percentage of RC’s—to that degree, the Vatican house of cards begins to collapse.

4. MOST Prottys have the horse sense to know that MANY to MOST RC’s hereon, are going to persist in being willfully blind, throw dust in the air, drag out packs of straw dogs/straw men interminably, obfuscate, shuck and jive, slip and slide, run and hide about such truths, facts, realities.

5. MOST Prottys have the horse sense to know that MANY RC’s hereon, are going to do more or less everything in their power to coerce FR into a sub-agency of the Vatican and to silence every significantly posting Protty possible by almost any means possible.

6. MOST Prottys hereon likely have the horse sense to know that the rabid clique types of RC’s hereon will rarely to never address meaningfully, factually, logically most of the points Dr E, &/or Outership, Manic_Episode, Godzilla, Marbren, MetMom, Roamer_1, RNMomOf7, wmfights, GameCock, HarleyD, Iscool, Alex Murphy, Quix et al post.

7. MOST Prottys hereon likely have the horse sense to know that meaningless, hollow, shallow, unrelated hogwash will continue to be proffered by the rabid clique and other types of RC’s hereon because that’s the best they can do to defend the house of cards aspects of the Vatican Institution.

8. However, some of us occasionally find it amusing when y’all display such outrageous silliness, shallowness, emptyness, straw dogs/straw men for the lurkers to take note of, if not guffaw uproariously with us about.

9. Besides, it may help keep some RC’s off the streats or help them drink less to busy themselves with hollow straw dogs/ straw men, & other shallow, empty replies.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

re straw dog, straw man:

Reasoning
The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern:

1.Person A has position X.

2.Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially-similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:

1.Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent’s position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent’s actual position has been refuted.[1]

2.Quoting an opponent’s words out of context – i.e. choosing quotations which are intentionally misrepresentative of the opponent’s actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2]

3.Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person’s arguments – thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]

4.Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

5.Oversimplifying an opponent’s argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.

3.Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.

[edit] Example

Straw man arguments often arise in public debates such as a (hypothetical) prohibition debate:

Person A: We should liberalize the laws on beer.

Person B: No, any society with unrestricted access to intoxicants loses its work ethic and goes only for immediate gratification.

The proposal was to relax laws on beer. Person B has exaggerated this to a position harder to defend, i.e., “unrestricted access to intoxicants”.[1]

[edit] Debating around a straw man

Strictly speaking, there are three ways to deal with a straw man setup in a debate:

1.Using the terms of the straw man and refuting the theory itself. (Note: A weakness of this retort is that agreeing to use the terminology of the opponent may deflect the debate to a secondary one about the opponent’s assumptions).

2.Clarifying the original theory. This may involve explicitly pointing out the straw man. In the example above, such a response might be: I said relax laws on beer but nothing about other stronger intoxicants.

3.Questioning the disputation.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Straw man
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the logical fallacy. For other uses, see Straw man (disambiguation).
“Man of straw” redirects here. For the novel by Heinrich Mann, see Der Untertan.
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.[1] To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the “straw man”), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2]

Presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent’s argument can be a part of a valid argument. For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one other statement, being presumably easier to refute than the original position, must be true. If one refutes this weaker proposition, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a “straw man” argument.

Re: Straw Dog

Posted by Bob on July 11, 2003

In Reply to: Re: Straw Dog posted by ESC on July 11, 2003

: : Can someone help with the meaning and derivation. Have heard it used in a context of setting up a straw dog. Many Thanks

: STRAW DOGS — Heaven and Earth are not humane./ They regard all things as straw dogs. Lao-tzu (c. 604 - c. 531 B.C., “The Way of Lao-tzu.”

Note: Straw dogs were used in sacrifices and then discarded. “Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations,” Seventeenth Edition, edited by Justin Kaplan (Little Brown and Co., Boston, 2002)

In business, something (an idea, or plan, usually) set up to be knocked down. It’s the dangerous philosophy of presenting one mediocre idea, so that the listener will make the choice of the better idea which follows. It backfires with some frequency, as the listener (out of sheer perversity) will insist on the straw dog. Moral of the story: if you are required to present two or three alternatives, make sure you can live with any of them.


30 posted on 05/07/2010 8:30:10 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: TheStickman; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...

No mind reading involved at all.

We see it shoved in our faces, thrown in our laps, paraded across our screens abundantly almost 24/7.

We’d have to be blind, deaf, dumb and lobotomized, NOT to see the horrendous degrees and abundance ofit.


31 posted on 05/07/2010 8:36:55 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
I hope and pray your well thought out post will not fall on deaf ears.

I generally shun these types of debates because of the futility of trying to reason with the unreasonable.

One distorts and the others pile on as if the distortion was valid.

Gods Word is so clear yet the willfully ignorant can somehow find a way to defend doing the exact opposite of Gods Word i.e.

Matthew 23:9

And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

32 posted on 05/07/2010 8:50:25 AM PDT by Manic_Episode (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: Manic_Episode

INDEED. INDEED.

Sigh.

Thx.


33 posted on 05/07/2010 9:40:22 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: TheStickman; Quix

Quix knows a lot about what the Catholic church teaches and what Catholics believe because many of us ex-Catholics have told him.

And we’ve posted links and quotes from the Catholic Church itself and its popes to verify our statements.

There’s no mind reading involved. Just reading.


34 posted on 05/07/2010 11:43:28 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

Based on your post & Quix’s rants, I hearby declare an doctorate degree in the field of Catholicism upon Quix by the power invested in me by the internet & the hair off our shedding cat, Patch.

There, I just granted him the authority to pass off false assertions & generalizations about the Catholic Church as if they were true. He & Maureen Dowd are now colleagues :)

Oh my Jesus! Forgive us of our sin. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven. Especially those in most need of Thy Mercy. Amen!

Mary, Mother of God, pray for us!


35 posted on 05/07/2010 11:55:40 AM PDT by TheStickman
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To: Salvation

Good read for May Devotion to Our Blessed Mother, thanks.


36 posted on 05/07/2010 12:02:54 PM PDT by Gerish (Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.)
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To: Manic_Episode
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

What did you call YOUR father?
37 posted on 05/07/2010 12:45:04 PM PDT by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: metmom; Quix
Quix knows a lot about what the Catholic church teaches and what Catholics believe because many of us ex-Catholics have told him.

My husband read a couple of your posts metmom (he responded to you under fightingirishthomas), and he said that many Catholics do not know their faith because there are no strong Catholics to teach them. You have lots of half-truths in your comments. I hope you realize that. So anything Quix has learned from you, could very well not be the full Truth.
"All the evil in the world can be attributed to lukewarm Catholics" --Pope St. Pius V.

38 posted on 05/07/2010 12:52:10 PM PDT by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: mlizzy

Which popes were wrong?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P29.HTM#2G6

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

***************************************************************************************************

Pope Innocent III (circa 1160 - 1216 CE) is considered “one of the greatest popes of the Middle Ages...” 1 At the Fourth Lateran Council (a.k.a. the General Council of Lateran, and the Great Council) he wrote:

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved.”

Pope Boniface VIII (1235-1303 CE) promulgated a Papal Bull in 1302 CE titled Unam Sanctam (One Holy). He wrote, in part:

“Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins...In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Ephesians 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed....Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” 2

The last sentence in the original Latin reads: “Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, definimus, et pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis.” 3

Pope Eugene IV, (1388-1447 CE) wrote a Papal bull in 1441 CE titled Cantate Domino. One paragraph reads:

“It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” 4


39 posted on 05/07/2010 1:32:22 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: mlizzy

I grew up in a highly Catholic city. If so many of the Catholics were that deficient in their faith, then the blame rests solely on the leadership of the Catholic church, no one else.

Otherwise, there is no possible way so many unrelated Catholics from so many different parishes would be believing the exact same errors.


40 posted on 05/07/2010 1:34:36 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Salvation
Do you honor your mother on Mother's Day?

Does the bible proclaim it a holiday for that?

On other days during the year?

Jesus says to hate your family, do you do that?

41 posted on 05/07/2010 2:07:27 PM PDT by DungeonMaster (I reserve the right to disagree with both sides!)
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To: metmom

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

Love it when folks pull pieces of the Catechism out and try to present it as “proof” of something nefarious.


42 posted on 05/07/2010 3:13:05 PM PDT by TheStickman
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To: mlizzy; metmom

. . . as though

metmom;

is 98% of the source of Quix’s understanding about Roman Catholocism etc.

instead of the more accurate less than 1% or so.

It is nice that MetMom’s reality is sooooooooooo congruent with 90-95% or so of the rest of my sources . . .

and with my own direct observations and discussions with a wide range of Roman Catholics of varying degrees of practice and knowledge of their own faith and institution.

I find the inference drawn exceedingly inaccurate and insulting to both MetMom and I, if not brazenly so.


43 posted on 05/07/2010 3:47:19 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: metmom

There ya go again.

You know they can’t handle nasty old facts.

They’ll have to go to their closet and drag out a whole big box of ‘sanctified’ white hankies to cope.


44 posted on 05/07/2010 3:49:03 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: TheStickman

Given the convolutions, permutations, etc.

it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel.


45 posted on 05/07/2010 3:50:03 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: metmom
I grew up in a highly Catholic city. If so many of the Catholics were that deficient in their faith, then the blame rests solely on the leadership of the Catholic church, no one else. Otherwise, there is no possible way so many unrelated Catholics from so many different parishes would be believing the exact same errors.

The Catechism takes care of explaining the Catholic Faith quite well, however, in addition, there are encyclicals/books from the popes, etc. to guide one in living a Faith-filled life. If one is a Catholic going *only* to Mass on Sundays and feast days (which is all that is *required* but it doesn't give the spiritual strength necessary to many who need an extra dose or two), not participating in the Sacrament of Reconciliation (very many Catholics do not!), not following Catholic Church doctrine (artificial birth control is used by way more Catholics than not), and so on, they cannot be strong Catholics, and they become failures as a solid Faith influence to others. Certainly, the higher ups in the Church should be explaining the Faith well to their students, parishioners, etc., but many are lukewarm themselves. As a Catholic (my brother-in-law had to do this when he was in the Seminary), they must go to those who teach and "Live" the Faith well (solid orthodox spiritual advisers), so that they, too, can turn around and be a good example, and teach others well themselves in their day-to-day living. The Catholic Faith is perfect, without flaw. Those within the Catholic Church (the humans!) are not, and cannot really be expected to espouse strong Catholic beliefs if, #1-no one is praying for them, and #2-because of it (or because of their own pile-up of sins; not going to frequent Confession, etc.), they themselves are weak.
46 posted on 05/07/2010 4:00:44 PM PDT by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: Quix; metmom
. . . as though metmom; is 98% of the source of Quix’s understanding about Roman Catholocism etc. instead of the more accurate less than 1% or so. It is nice that MetMom’s reality is sooooooooooo congruent with 90-95% or so of the rest of my sources . . . and with my own direct observations and discussions with a wide range of Roman Catholics of varying degrees of practice and knowledge of their own faith and institution. I find the inference drawn exceedingly inaccurate and insulting to both MetMom and I, if not brazenly so.

I'm sorry, I do not know what you are talking about. Here's my original comment. It doesn't appear brazen OR insulting to me.

My husband read a couple of your posts metmom (he responded to you under fightingirishthomas), and he said that many Catholics do not know their faith because there are no strong Catholics to teach them. You have lots of half-truths in your comments. I hope you realize that. So anything Quix has learned from you, could very well not be the full Truth.
"All the evil in the world can be attributed to lukewarm Catholics" --Pope St. Pius V.

47 posted on 05/07/2010 4:29:01 PM PDT by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: Quix

It’s your delusion. Enjoy :)


48 posted on 05/07/2010 5:37:51 PM PDT by TheStickman
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To: mlizzy
"What did you call YOUR father? "

==================================================

Dad.

Still do, he seems okay with it.

My kids call me Dad too.

Not too theologically complicated.

49 posted on 05/07/2010 5:38:45 PM PDT by Manic_Episode (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: Manic_Episode

So all those printed forms kids fill out in school, at the doctors’ offices, later on for jobs, etc., where they ask for mother’s name and father’s name are all going against the Word of the Lord?


50 posted on 05/07/2010 5:41:26 PM PDT by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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