Skip to comments.Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint
Posted on 05/06/2010 9:46:10 PM PDT by Salvation
This website surveys the origin and development of Roman Catholic Christianity from the period of the apostolic church, through the post-apostolic church and into the conciliar movement. Principal attention is paid to the biblical basis of both doctrine and dogma as well as the role of paradosis (i.e. handing on the truth) in the history of the Church. Particular attention is also paid to the hierarchical founding and succession of leadership throughout the centuries.
This is a set of lecture notes used since 1985 to teach the basis for key doctrines and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. The objectives of the course were, and are:
The course grew out of the need for the authors to continually answer questions about their faith tradition and their work. (Both authors are active members of Catholic parish communities in the Diocese of Richmond, Virginia. Dr. Robert Schihl was a Professor and Associate Dean of the School of Communication and the Arts at Regent University. Paul Flanagan is a consultant specializing in preparing people for technology based changes.) At the time these notes were first prepared, the authors were spending time in their faith community answering questions about their Protestant Evangelical workplaces (Mr. Flanagan was then a senior executive at the Christian Broadcasting Network), and time in their workplaces answering similar questions about their Roman Catholic faith community. These notes are the result of more than a decade of facilitating dialogue among those who wish to learn more about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and why.
Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint
Catholic Christians look to the development over time of Biblical faith. This follows from Jesus' promise to send the Holy Spirit to reveal more things than He would tell His Apostles. This deepening of understanding God's Truth is evidenced in the definitions of the truth about the Trinity and the natures of Christ in the early Church councils.
Catholics also believe that the Bible does not record all the revealed Word of God. The Word of God in paradosis or tradition under the guidance of the Holy Spirit cannot contradict anything in the Bible, nor be absent from the constant faith of the believing Church.
Some understanding of the truth of God passed on by the believing Church (paradosis, tradition) later defined as revealed truth concerns Mary, the mother of Jesus.
Catholics believe, as did the Protestant Reformers, that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus. Catholics believe the truth of the Bible that the Redemption of Jesus freed all believers from the original sin of Adam and its consequence, death.
On the basis of Bible truths from Genesis to Revelation, Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the first to believe, and the first to reap both benefits from her Son's Redemption.
Mary's freedom from original sin is called her Immaculate Conception; her immediate entrance into Heaven at the completion of her life is called her Assumption.
It is not a straw dog. You saying it is a straw dog does not make it one.
Salvation, it looks like you’re going to have to make these threads caucus to keep the Usual Suspects from trashing them. They put their muddy footprints all over a decent meditation and prayer time. The LAST thing anyone needs here on this beautiful thread is people trying to start an argument.
if it’s not true for you.
It IS true for millions of folks under the Vatican umbrella.
It is false to contend otherwise.
If the Institution poiced itself instead of aiding and abetting rank idolatry and blasphemy, I wouldn’t bother.
It defends such outrages fiercely.
It is Prottys duty before God to similarly raise a fierce cry in behalf of THE TRUTH.
I think the
DEGREE OF HONOR . . . as well as the motivation
are issues, as well.
“It IS true for millions of folks under the Vatican umbrella.”
Now you’re a mind reader & have been ‘granted’ the ability to know what “millions of folks” think & believe in. Being grandiose is ‘biblical’ in what way, pray tell?
“If the Institution poiced itself instead of aiding and abetting rank idolatry and blasphemy, I wouldnt bother.”
Calling a cat a dog doesn’t make it so. I forgive you for trying to pass off this false notion as a fact.
that is all nice and good...but how does it help people to connect to their holy spirit/ conscience..and detach from the evil one that talks to us in our thoughts? I am sorry, but the church has lost the art of true prayer and the fhu.com has rediscovered it. Setting people trully free and happy..the be still execise...as used by thousands in the military to help them to overcome simply their battle trauma.
the Be Still Exercise! oops, mispelled there.
http://www.apelosurgentes.com.br/mensagens_ing.php THIS PEDRO REGIS VISIONS OF Message 3314 from Our Lady, Queen of Peace, Montes Claros, MG. transmitted in 02/05/2010
Dear Sons and Daughters, I come from heaven to bless you and lead you to My Son Jesus. Be docil. Fear not. Don´t back away. Happen what may, don´t let the flame of faith go out in you. I ask you to be faithful to My Son Jesus. Don´t let yourselves be contaminated by the things of the world, for you belong only to The Lord, and should follow only Him. Humanity has become spiritually poor because people have gone away from God. I suffer because of what awaits you. Bend your knees in prayer. There will be no defeat for those chosen by God. You will yet have great suffering, but trust in God. Your victory is in Him. A frightening phenomenon will happen in the sea of Galilee and no one will have an explanation. I am yo ur Mom and I never get tired. Be meek and humble of heart. I come from heaven to make you men and women of faith. Forward without fear. I will speak to My Jesus for you. Courage. This is the message I transmit to you today in the name of The Most Holy Trinity. Thank you for permitting Me to reunite you here once more. I bless you in the name of The Father, of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace.
Message 3313 from Our Lady, Queen of Peace, Anguera BA. Brazil. transmitted in 01/05/2010
Dear Sons and Daughters, I love you as you are and I am always at your side, even though you don´t see Me. You are important for the realization of My plans and I come from heaven to call you to a sincere conversion. Fear not. Nothing is lost. Trust fully in My Son Jesus and you will be victorious. I will speak to My Jesus for you. I invite you to live My appeals. Humanity is sick and needs to be healed. Open your hearts to the God of salvation and peace. Flee from evil and seek strength in prayer and the Eucharist. When all seems lost, a great victory will come to you. Behold, the times I predicted have come. Return quickly. I don´t want to obligate you, but what I say must be taken seriously. Something sorrowful will happen in Italy. No greater sorrow existed. Similar suffering will come to the residents of the Amazon. Bend your knees in prayer. God will save you. Forward. This is the message I transmit to you today in the Name of The Most Holy Trinity. Thank you for permitting Me to reunite you here once more. I bless you in The name of The Father, of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace.
**If one honors Mary through faith in Christ, it is for divine good**
See below re straw dogs and straw men.
I gather, given the context, recent threads etc.
that you think the thread itself was not kicking sand in Prottys eyes.
Now, if RC’s could persuade the FR PTB to have a sheltered caucus category/option wherein only members of the caucus COULD SEE such threads, that would be wonderful. Prottys would not feel so duty bound to state the Biblical, psychological, sociological, historical, spiritual Truths by contrast.
1. MOST of y’all have the horse sense to KNOW that Prottys are NOT talking about fitting honor of Mary.
2. MOST of y’all have the horse sense to KNOW that an unknown percentage of those who go by the name Roman Catholic et al DO HAVE AN INORDINATE, IDOLATROUS, BLASPHEMOUS FOCUS ON [the caricatured pseudo-personage labeled] “Mary, MOTHER OF GOD.”
3. MOST of y’all have the horse sense to KNOW that MOST of us Prottys are addressing THAT percentage of Roman Catholics et al about THAT level of idolatry and blasphemy.
3. MOST Prottys have the horse sense to know that probably MOST RC’s are understandably terrified that to the degree that Prottys accurately-before-God identify a serious level of idolatry and blasphemy for ANY significant percentage of RC’s—to that degree, the Vatican house of cards begins to collapse.
4. MOST Prottys have the horse sense to know that MANY to MOST RC’s hereon, are going to persist in being willfully blind, throw dust in the air, drag out packs of straw dogs/straw men interminably, obfuscate, shuck and jive, slip and slide, run and hide about such truths, facts, realities.
5. MOST Prottys have the horse sense to know that MANY RC’s hereon, are going to do more or less everything in their power to coerce FR into a sub-agency of the Vatican and to silence every significantly posting Protty possible by almost any means possible.
6. MOST Prottys hereon likely have the horse sense to know that the rabid clique types of RC’s hereon will rarely to never address meaningfully, factually, logically most of the points Dr E, &/or Outership, Manic_Episode, Godzilla, Marbren, MetMom, Roamer_1, RNMomOf7, wmfights, GameCock, HarleyD, Iscool, Alex Murphy, Quix et al post.
7. MOST Prottys hereon likely have the horse sense to know that meaningless, hollow, shallow, unrelated hogwash will continue to be proffered by the rabid clique and other types of RC’s hereon because that’s the best they can do to defend the house of cards aspects of the Vatican Institution.
8. However, some of us occasionally find it amusing when y’all display such outrageous silliness, shallowness, emptyness, straw dogs/straw men for the lurkers to take note of, if not guffaw uproariously with us about.
9. Besides, it may help keep some RC’s off the streats or help them drink less to busy themselves with hollow straw dogs/ straw men, & other shallow, empty replies.
re straw dog, straw man:
The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern:
1.Person A has position X.
2.Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially-similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
1.Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent’s position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent’s actual position has been refuted.
2.Quoting an opponent’s words out of context i.e. choosing quotations which are intentionally misrepresentative of the opponent’s actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).
3.Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person’s arguments thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.
4.Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
5.Oversimplifying an opponent’s argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
3.Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.
Straw man arguments often arise in public debates such as a (hypothetical) prohibition debate:
Person A: We should liberalize the laws on beer.
Person B: No, any society with unrestricted access to intoxicants loses its work ethic and goes only for immediate gratification.
The proposal was to relax laws on beer. Person B has exaggerated this to a position harder to defend, i.e., “unrestricted access to intoxicants”.
 Debating around a straw man
Strictly speaking, there are three ways to deal with a straw man setup in a debate:
1.Using the terms of the straw man and refuting the theory itself. (Note: A weakness of this retort is that agreeing to use the terminology of the opponent may deflect the debate to a secondary one about the opponent’s assumptions).
2.Clarifying the original theory. This may involve explicitly pointing out the straw man. In the example above, such a response might be: I said relax laws on beer but nothing about other stronger intoxicants.
3.Questioning the disputation.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This article is about the logical fallacy. For other uses, see Straw man (disambiguation).
“Man of straw” redirects here. For the novel by Heinrich Mann, see Der Untertan.
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position. To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the “straw man”), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
Presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent’s argument can be a part of a valid argument. For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one other statement, being presumably easier to refute than the original position, must be true. If one refutes this weaker proposition, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a “straw man” argument.
Re: Straw Dog
Posted by Bob on July 11, 2003
In Reply to: Re: Straw Dog posted by ESC on July 11, 2003
: : Can someone help with the meaning and derivation. Have heard it used in a context of setting up a straw dog. Many Thanks
: STRAW DOGS — Heaven and Earth are not humane./ They regard all things as straw dogs. Lao-tzu (c. 604 - c. 531 B.C., “The Way of Lao-tzu.”
Note: Straw dogs were used in sacrifices and then discarded. “Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations,” Seventeenth Edition, edited by Justin Kaplan (Little Brown and Co., Boston, 2002)
In business, something (an idea, or plan, usually) set up to be knocked down. It’s the dangerous philosophy of presenting one mediocre idea, so that the listener will make the choice of the better idea which follows. It backfires with some frequency, as the listener (out of sheer perversity) will insist on the straw dog. Moral of the story: if you are required to present two or three alternatives, make sure you can live with any of them.
No mind reading involved at all.
We see it shoved in our faces, thrown in our laps, paraded across our screens abundantly almost 24/7.
We’d have to be blind, deaf, dumb and lobotomized, NOT to see the horrendous degrees and abundance ofit.
I generally shun these types of debates because of the futility of trying to reason with the unreasonable.
One distorts and the others pile on as if the distortion was valid.
Gods Word is so clear yet the willfully ignorant can somehow find a way to defend doing the exact opposite of Gods Word i.e.
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Quix knows a lot about what the Catholic church teaches and what Catholics believe because many of us ex-Catholics have told him.
And we’ve posted links and quotes from the Catholic Church itself and its popes to verify our statements.
There’s no mind reading involved. Just reading.
Based on your post & Quix’s rants, I hearby declare an doctorate degree in the field of Catholicism upon Quix by the power invested in me by the internet & the hair off our shedding cat, Patch.
There, I just granted him the authority to pass off false assertions & generalizations about the Catholic Church as if they were true. He & Maureen Dowd are now colleagues :)
Oh my Jesus! Forgive us of our sin. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven. Especially those in most need of Thy Mercy. Amen!
Mary, Mother of God, pray for us!
Good read for May Devotion to Our Blessed Mother, thanks.
"All the evil in the world can be attributed to lukewarm Catholics" --Pope St. Pius V.
Which popes were wrong?
Outside the Church there is no salvation
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
Pope Innocent III (circa 1160 - 1216 CE) is considered “one of the greatest popes of the Middle Ages...” 1 At the Fourth Lateran Council (a.k.a. the General Council of Lateran, and the Great Council) he wrote:
“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved.”
Pope Boniface VIII (1235-1303 CE) promulgated a Papal Bull in 1302 CE titled Unam Sanctam (One Holy). He wrote, in part:
“Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins...In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Ephesians 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed....Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” 2
The last sentence in the original Latin reads: “Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, definimus, et pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis.” 3
Pope Eugene IV, (1388-1447 CE) wrote a Papal bull in 1441 CE titled Cantate Domino. One paragraph reads:
“It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” 4
I grew up in a highly Catholic city. If so many of the Catholics were that deficient in their faith, then the blame rests solely on the leadership of the Catholic church, no one else.
Otherwise, there is no possible way so many unrelated Catholics from so many different parishes would be believing the exact same errors.
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