Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Almighty is Unjustifiable, Part II
Jewish World Review ^ | 5/7/'10 | Rabbi Nathan Lopes Cardozo

Posted on 05/07/2010 6:57:41 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator

What do we mean by professing that G-d is good and man was created in His image? When G-d allows and even causes unbearable pain to befall man, afflicting him with sickness, cruel death, earthquakes and the most horrible wars, there seems little room for these claims. If G-d, by our moral standards, cannot be justified for many of His actions, as we have suggested previously, how are we to revere Him?

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Judaism; Theology
KEYWORDS: gd; problemofevil; theodicy; worldpurpose
Jewish tradition has never denied that G-d is the creator of evil. The Bible itself attests to this: "I make peace and create evil" (Isaiah 45:7).

There is no evil counterpart of G-d who has chased Him off His throne and become "the gxd of this world." There is only One G-d Who is the King of All Worlds.

1 posted on 05/07/2010 6:57:42 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Alouette; hlmencken3; Yehuda; rmlew; Nachum; dervish; Ancesthntr; blasater1960; TorahTrueJew; ...

Ping. Sorry if I forgot anyone.


2 posted on 05/07/2010 7:02:26 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator

“”unbearable pain to befall man, afflicting him with sickness, cruel death, earthquakes and the most horrible wars””

If you hold that these are bad, then your errant way of thinking can’t be set right.

You truly “can’t get there from here.”

Further discussion would be pointless.


3 posted on 05/07/2010 7:06:33 AM PDT by getitright (If you call this HOPE, can we give despair a shot?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator
When G-d..causes unbearable pain to befall man, afflicting him with sickness, cruel death, earthquakes and the most horrible wars..

God doesn't cause that....not since Jesus died on the cross. Most wickedness is chosen by man.

4 posted on 05/07/2010 7:11:39 AM PDT by laotzu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator

G-d, th-t’s s- d-istr-ct-ng!

Why w-n’t y-u pe-pl- j-st br-ak d-wn and b-y th- f-ll pr-ce k-ybo-rd th-t h-s th- f-ll s-t -f v-w-ls?!?


5 posted on 05/07/2010 7:15:40 AM PDT by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: laotzu
God doesn't cause that....not since Jesus died on the cross.

So for two thousand years the world has operated randomly (as the atheists maintain), or does "the devil" control the forces of nature?

Not everyone is a chr*stian, you know. Please check the author of the article again.

6 posted on 05/07/2010 7:18:39 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: flowerplough; Religion Moderator
G-d, th-t’s s- d-istr-ct-ng!

Why w-n’t y-u pe-pl- j-st br-ak d-wn and b-y th- f-ll pr-ce k-ybo-rd th-t h-s th- f-ll s-t -f v-w-ls?!?

It's nice to know that after all these thousands of years there are still people out there unafraid of parading their ignorance and bigotry before the world. Thank you for confirming my faith in human nature.

RM, is it valid to horn in on a thread--even a non-caucused thread--to which one was not invited merely to make fun of the religious scruples of the other posters?

7 posted on 05/07/2010 7:21:34 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator

Ridicule is to be expected on “open” Religion Forum threads. If this had been an “ecumenical” “caucus” “prayer” or “devotional” RF thread, it would not be tolerated.


8 posted on 05/07/2010 7:23:31 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator
Not everyone is a chr*stian, you know.

Too true. I really should have run my opinion by you first.

Sorry.

9 posted on 05/07/2010 7:39:39 AM PDT by laotzu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: flowerplough
G-d, th-t’s s- d-istr-ct-ng!

He told on you. Har!!

10 posted on 05/07/2010 7:44:16 AM PDT by laotzu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator

Isaiah 45:7 says exactly this: “I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.” He never said He “created” evil

Disaster and darkness are not the same as evil. God did not create evil- we did that. One of the hardest things for man to do is accept the fact that evil (as we understand it)exists because it is what we demanded. We CHOSE to know good and evil, to be “as gods”. This was not God’s original plan for us, but He gave us free will, and pride brought us the rest.


11 posted on 05/07/2010 7:50:30 AM PDT by 13Sisters76 ("It is amazing how many people mistake a certain hip snideness for sophistication. " Thos. Sowell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 13Sisters76
Disaster and darkness are not the same as evil. God did not create evil- we did that. One of the hardest things for man to do is accept the fact that evil (as we understand it)exists because it is what we demanded. We CHOSE to know good and evil, to be “as gods”. This was not God’s original plan for us, but He gave us free will, and pride brought us the rest.

It's possible that you and I are talking past each other, but I don't think you understand the point of the article (or at least my interpretation of it, which may be incorrect). Some people believe that evil is a creation of an evil "gxd" or an evil counterpart to G-d (G-d forbid!). But this is not so. The very creation of a being with free will and given a code of conduct makes evil possible, and thus is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Furthermore, G-d created HaSatan and gave him his assignments which he faithfully carries out (he is not a "fallen" or "rebellious" angel, G-d forbid).

It seems to me (and please forgive me if I am wrong) that you are simply saying that G-d does not force people to be evil, and indeed, we are all given free will (though after the primordial sin our nature has changed to such an extent that resisting temptation can be very difficult). What I am trying to say (and what I think Rabbi Cardozo is saying) is that evil is not an unforeseen force created by an outside entity but was built into the world from the beginning and in some mysterious way serves G-d's ultimate purposes. (There is a midrash that the first sin was actually committed not by man but by the ground when it brought forth `etz `oseh peri instead of `etz peri `oseh peri as G-d commanded in the first chapter of Genesis.)

12 posted on 05/07/2010 7:57:12 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator

We couldn’t live without natural “evil” of earthquakes, volcanoes, weather systems, etc.

We might not be able to live without man-made evil either. We never have.


13 posted on 05/07/2010 9:09:05 AM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: laotzu

The greatest religio-metaphysical debate, Lao Tzu, is the one that falls flat in the forest with no one there to hear it, because some arsebung kicked the props out from under it before it got going good.


14 posted on 05/07/2010 9:19:14 AM PDT by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator
How about this ?
23 The steps of a man are established by YHvH, And He delights in his way.

24 When he falls, he will not be hurled headlong, Because YHvH is the One who holds his hand.

25 I have been young and now I am old, Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken Or his descendants begging bread.

26 All day long he is gracious and lends, And his descendants are a blessing.

27 Depart from evil and do good, So you will abide forever.

28 For YHvH loves justice And does not forsake His godly ones; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked will be cut off.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

15 posted on 05/07/2010 9:58:11 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: UriÂ’el-2012
How about this ?

How about it?

G-d is good, but evil is not the creation of an evil entity. The possibility of evil is part of G-d's design of the universe.

16 posted on 05/07/2010 10:01:01 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: 13Sisters76
In the Hebrew it says evil.. רָע Even the KJV renders it evil.
17 posted on 05/07/2010 11:20:14 AM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: 13Sisters76; Zionist Conspirator
One other passage: Jonah 3:

7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:

8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto G-d: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.

10 And G-d saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and G-d repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

G-d did not do the evil that he said he would do....interesting side note, the people of Nineveh were forgiven through prayer and repentance. No animal sacrifice, no shedding of blood.

18 posted on 05/07/2010 11:36:44 AM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator
G-d is good, but evil is not the creation of an evil entity. The possibility of evil is part of G-d's design of the universe.

Could evil be our free will and our rebellion ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
19 posted on 05/07/2010 1:25:47 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator

Is this ecumenical or open for debate?


20 posted on 05/07/2010 1:40:02 PM PDT by joseph20 (...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: UriÂ’el-2012
Could evil be our free will and our rebellion ?

All I am saying is that in creating a universe in which a being with free will is given a moral code, G-d created a situation that makes rebellion, and therefore evil, possible. Evil is not an exnihilation by an evil counterpart of G-d. It is in the sense I have described built into the creation.

If your dogmatic theology insists on a war between a "good god" and an "evil god," then there is no need dialoguing with you further.

If you insist that "things just happen" or that "the devil" controls the weather, then you aren't even a monotheist.

21 posted on 05/07/2010 2:02:19 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: joseph20
Is this ecumenical or open for debate?

Hey, all I meant to do was post an article by a rabbi. I wasn't trying to start World War III.

Everybody else is chiming in and the thread isn't caucused. You might as well join in.

22 posted on 05/07/2010 2:04:08 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: joseph20

From the Jewish perspective of the author of the article, the existence of evil is a paradox given God’s goodness and omnipotence.

This is less of a problem for Christians, who allow Satan to be a separate rebellious being instead of the obedient servant that is the Jewish ‘satan’.

Chassidic philosophy goes even farther than traditional Jewish thought, holding that the ONLY true existence is God, meaning that the satan and evil must in some way be ultimately illusory.


23 posted on 05/07/2010 2:16:07 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator
U-2012>Could evil be our free will and our rebellion ?

All I am saying is that in creating a universe in which a being with free will is given a moral code, G-d created a situation that makes rebellion, and therefore evil, possible. Evil is not an exnihilation by an evil counterpart of G-d. It is in the sense I have described built into the creation.

If your dogmatic theology insists on a war between a "good god" and an "evil god," then there is no need dialoguing with you further.

If you insist that "things just happen" or that "the devil" controls the weather, then you aren't even a monotheist.

You surmise incorrectly.

Shabbat Shalom !

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
24 posted on 05/07/2010 3:37:18 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson