If celibacy causes abuse ....

Because of the priestly abuse scandals we so often hear that the problem is priestly celibacy. That not having sex causes you to abuse children and teens. That it is unhealthy and unnatural for us not to have sex.

Well if they truly believed this then we need a whole new set of laws.

For example what about socially awkward and extremely shy men? Obviously their unwanted state of celibacy will cause them to abuse children. How about marriages that have grown to be sexless because of one spouse being tired of sex? They too will look for children to abuse by this reasoning. What about people not having sex before marriage and still have not found the person they want to marry?

So what we need are a new form of Temple Prostitutes. Yes government prostitutes and I am not talking about politicians. The government should monitor people’s sex life and determine when a person has been without sex for a specified period to be determined. The celibacy cycle must be monitored to prevent abuse.

Plus who knows when this sets in so maybe the government should force people to get married at a younger age or ensure that government appointed prostitutes make visits for preventive maintenance. By this logic we know that a period of celibacy can cause lifelong problems. We know this because priestly abusers often go on to more and more abuse. So they are no longer celibate yet they have steady sex via their abusive relationships. Those that abuse children often go on to abuse more and more children throughout their lifetime. So the celibacy causes abuse logic would dictate that it is not the psychological sickness of the individual, but the often short period they were actually celibate before abusing children and predominately teenage males. Funny how celibacy causes abuse that targets teenage males. I guess the lack of sex makes men all of sudden choose victims of a certain age and gender since it can’t possibly have anything to do with same sex attraction don’t you know. Just one of those odd quirks that come from being celibate for a period of time.

So you parents that believe celibacy causes abuse out there – make sure your male children either get married early and that they have a continuous sex life or that you buy them prostitutes until the government steps in to help. Plus keep ignoring the fact that most child abuse occurs within families and to a lesser extent public schools. Celibacy is the problem, facts be damned.

"I’m not sure why billorites would extrapolate from President Carter’s mentioning the *sin* of lust to the proposition that sex outside marriage is just fine"

I think that is an unfair and inaccurate characterization of my remarks.

Wrestling with sexuality is a common and shared experience of human development. We do so within, or without, some framework of moral teaching. Carter acknowledged that. No more, no less.

I'm rereading my remarks in order to understand how they might be construed as condoning infidelity, sex outside of marriage, etc.

I will sit on Jimmy's side of the room, though, with the other sinners who had an impure thought once or twice...when I was young...or drinking...

I don't think the moral instruction I received as a youth regarding sex and sexuality in my mainstream Protestant church was very accurate, useful or constitutes a coherent code that I want to transmit to my kids. Maybe it's different now forty years later.

I'll ask the Bishop or his life-partner.

Sigh...

This is ultimate insanity!!! I can’t even imagine where this idea would come from. Child molesters/abusers can be found in all walks of life, in every “group” you can imagine to put people in... Celibacy does not cause abusive behavior. That’s the same type of attitude that requires Muslim women to dress in Burkas — as if men cannot control themselves to even see an ankle or a wrist! What is this world coming to???

[I know... Isaiah Chapter 5 — sweet for sour, light for dark... It breaks my heart even though we’ve been warned...]

Most of the abuse victims are young boys, so it seems that it isn't so much celibacy as homosexuality. We never hear this cause mentioned in the media for some reason. It's sort of the 800 lb gorilla in the room.

Exactly, especially since we don't hear about the problems that celibacy causes among the nuns.

Or is celibacy just a problem for men?

You nailed it. I think that homosexuality is the real problem.

I think that mandatory celibacy for the priesthood is unnecessary; there's no Scriptural basis for it and that the Catholic Church would do better with a married priesthood, but that's their call.

The real problem (or one way to look at it) is this:

If people are just hunks of meat, then the only real happiness in life is gratifying every desire and whim the senses demand. As much sex, food, etc as possible and any other enjoyments conjured up is the goal of life. “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you die”.

The other view of life is that people are in truth eternal souls, wearing an earthly tent which is temporary, and that human life has a mission - to develop loving surrender to God - and that this is the real meaning and purpose to life. This is the real happiness the heart is aching and longing for. And that gratifiying every desire the sense come up with does NOT bring deep happiness, comfort or joy to the heart.

In every religion there are very similar if not almost exactly the same rules or guidelines about how to live in the world happily. Controlling our sex urge is universally instructed, as well as not giving in to drunkenness, gluttony, envy, avariciousness, etc. Controlling sex desire is part of what makes a human “human”.

It is not denying oneself happiness to control sex desire, it means being human as opposed to acting like a two legged animal. I know from bitter personal experience what it is like to be wildly promiscuous (when I was a teenager in the late 60s) and what it’s like to live a celibate life, and a faithful married life.

Promiscuity causes absolute misery and untold heartache and problems. Controlling sex desire is not always easy - especially for the young - but it is deeply satsifying in the long and short run. The more a person indulges in extra marital sex (of whatever kind), the more desires increase. It’s like pouring gasoline on a fire.

Someone may say or think - “I have these desires, I must act on them”! It’s like saying - “there’s a fire in the backyard, I must put it out by pouring some gasoline on it!”

And as Tax-chick said, even in marriage celibacy (or continence, I can’t remember how those terms differ in use) is often needed - during illness, difficult pregnancies, separation, etc.

Thank you - I’ve decided to let fly. Let the chips fall where they may. So many on FR think it’s perfectly fine to act or advocate acting like a beast in rut. Harmless, normal, even admirable.

It is not the way to happiness for that person, the people they exploit (even if it’s mutual exploitation), the unwanted children produced, or the state of emptiness they create in their own heart and soul. It’s a direct path to suffering. The Bhagavad Gita says there are three gates leading to hell - Lust, Anger and Greed. They are always to be avoided by all sane humans.

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