Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Issues to watch on Pope's trip to Portugal
Catholic Culture ^ | March 7, 2010 | Diogenes

Posted on 05/08/2010 3:58:21 PM PDT by NYer

John Allen looks at the background of Pope Benedict's coming trip to Fatima, Portugal. He notes that the five foreign trips the Pope has scheduled for this year-- to Malta, Portugal, Cyprus, Great Britain, and Spain-- "are almost laid out in ascending order of difficulty."


Benedict in Portugal: A different crisis, secularism, and 'Marian Cool'

As fate would have it, Pope Benedict XVI's five foreign trips in 2010 are almost laid out in ascending order of difficulty. Last month's weekend stop in Malta, arguably the most Catholic society on earth, amounted to the warm-up act, while next week's four-day swing in Portugal, which so far has been spared the sexual abuse scandals which have engulfed the church elsewhere in Europe, should be a fairly smooth ride as well.

(One shouldn't be overly dogmatic about such predictions, however. It's worth remembering that it was in Fatima in 1982 that a Lefebvrite priest named Juan Krohn attacked Pope John Paul II with a bayonet. Though the Vatican was fuzzy on the details at the time, John Paul's private secretary, now Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz of Krakow, said in 2008 that the pope was actually wounded. During his subsequent trial, Krohn asserted that John Paul was actually a closet Communist attempting to subvert the Vatican from within. A Spaniard by birth, Krohn was expelled by the Society of St. Pius X and eventually left the priesthood. He recently reemerged in an interview with Portuguese TV to complain that he never got a papal pardon like Mehmet Ali Agca, who shot John Paul II in St. Peter's Square in 1981. All that, I suppose, belongs in the "anything can happen" file.)

A woman fills a bottle with holy water next to a poster of Pope Benedict XVI May 5 in Sao Domingos church in Lisbon, Portugal. (CNS/Nacho Doce, Reuters)

A woman fills a bottle with holy water next to a poster of Pope Benedict XVI May 5 in Sao Domingos church in Lisbon, Portugal. (CNS/Nacho Doce, Reuters)Pope Benedict XVI visits Lisbon and Fatima in Portugal May 11-14.

After Portugal, Benedict's itinerary gets complicated in a hurry. In June he travels to Cyprus, where he'll attempt the virtually impossible -- satisfying both the Turks and the Greeks, both of whom have a powerful political and emotional investment in the island. The pope sees Turkey as crucial to his outreach to the Islamic world, and the Greeks as key players in Catholic/Orthodox relations. The pope will also present the working document for October's Synod on the Middle East, where job number one will be to trying to figure out some way of preventing Christianity from effectively disappearing in the land of Christ.

In September, Benedict travels to the United Kingdom, a thoroughly secular society with a long history of anti-Catholicism … not to mention, of course, that some voices in the UK have floated the idea of an arrest warrant for Benedict when he steps off the plane. Finally, the pope will visit Spain in November, where the Socialist government of Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has become the bogeyman of the Vatican's imagination -- a global symbol of secularism on steroids, challenging the church on every conceivable front, from abortion to gay marriage to public funding for church-run schools and charities.

Portugal, where Benedict will visit the capital city of Lisbon and the famed Marian shrine in Fatima, thus looms as a dress rehearsal for the more complicated trips later in the year. In the run-up, three aspects of the trip seem especially striking.

'The Crisis'

A country of 10.6 million that's officially 88 percent Catholic, Portugal may be one of the few corners of the Catholic world these days where the phrase "the crisis" does not immediately summon images of the sexual abuse scandals in the church.

Bishop António dos Santos Marto of Leiria-Fátima recently told Portuguese journalists that he does not expect the sexual abuse mess to "overshadow" the pope's visit, in part because so far there's been no eruption in Portugal along the lines of Ireland and Germany.

Instead, when you say "crisis" to most Portuguese these days, they assume you're talking about economic turmoil brought on recently when international investors targeted the country's debt. That move wiped out billions from the Portuguese stock market almost overnight, and raised fears that the country could go the way of Greece in terms of economic free-fall and social chaos. An emergency austerity plan from the government of Prime Minister José Sócrates has triggered labor strikes and other protests across the country.

Although it's terrible to put it like this, in some ways Portugal's trouble couldn't have come at a better time for Benedict XVI. It means that in addition to the familiar litany of questions about his handling of priestly abuse, people will also be eager to hear what the pope has to say about economic justice -- and on that score, the pope arrives locked and loaded.

In effect, Portugal offers Benedict XVI a laboratory for concrete application of the principles he sketched in his July 2009 social encyclical Caritas in Veritate.

Since many politicians and analysts in Portugal believe that the current crisis stems in part from an irrational over-reaction by investors to the meltdown in Greece, the situation affords Benedict a natural opportunity to reprise his teaching from Caritas in Veritate about the dangers of what he called "scandalous speculation" and the need for a global authority with "real teeth" capable of regulating financial markets.

More broadly, the market turmoil in Europe provides a natural backdrop for Benedict to sketch, as he does in Caritas in Veritate, what he calls a vision of "Christian humanism" for economic reform. In essence, the pope's pitch is that fixing structures or rules won't do the trick unless the moral architecture of the economy is also considered.

"The conviction that the economy must be autonomous, that it must be shielded from 'influences' of a moral character, has led man to abuse the economic process in a thoroughly destructive way," the pope wrote in Caritas in Veritate.

Current events suggest there are few places on earth where Benedict is likely to find a more receptive audience for that message than in Portugal. One natural opportunity to deliver it will come in a meeting with social workers, including non-Catholic organizations, which Benedict XVI is holding at the request of the Portuguese bishops.

The battle with secularism

In his landmark book A Secular Age, Charles Taylor distinguishes three senses of the word "secularism": the separation of church and state; declines in religious faith and practice; and a change in the "plausibility structures" within a culture, in which non-religious explanations of life become the most convincing.

Western Europe is probably the only place on earth where secularism in all three senses is truly a grass-roots phenomenon. As part of the Catholic belt near the Mediterranean, Portugal is perhaps slightly less secularized than, say, Sweden or Great Britain, but nonetheless the church's hold on society is certainly not what it once was. Polls, for example, show that only about 19 percent of Portuguese Catholics attend Mass on a weekly basis.

Not only is Catholicism in Portugal buffeted by the prevailing secular winds, but in some ways its prestige still suffers from its profile under the long-running dictatorship of António de Oliveira Salazar, whose regime controlled the country from 1932 until the "Carnation Revolution" of 1974.

Despite some pockets of opposition, for the most part the Catholic church backed Salazar -- a former seminarian and ferocious anti-Communist, whose erstwhile roommate in college went on to become the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon. Salazar routinely invoked papal social encyclicals to justify his economic policies. When the regime finally imploded, a good chunk of the Catholic church's institutional credibility went with it.

More recently, Portugal has reflected the broader direction of most EU states. Under Socialist Prime Minister José Sócrates, Portugal legalized abortion during the first ten weeks of pregnancy following a national referendum in 2007, and the parliament recently approved a new law authorizing gay marriage. The measure is presently awaiting the signature of President Anibal Cavaco Silva, a Catholic and a member of the more conservative opposition party. Even if Cavaco Silva demurs, however, the Socialists say they have enough votes to override his veto. Assuming the measure eventually becomes law, Portugal will join five other European nations to permit gay marriage: Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway and, most recently, Sweden. Iceland is also currently debating a gay marriage law.

At one level, the challenge awaiting Pope Benedict is to support last-ditch efforts to derail the gay marriage law. Though the pontiff is unlikely to enter into the nitty-gritty of political debate, he will almost certainly recall Portugal to its Christian roots and stress the important of Europe's Christian values as a basis for public policy. The Portuguese will hear that, at least in part, as a reference to the present debate over marriage and the family.

Yet Benedict XVI is nothing if not a realist, meaning that he realizes the political winds are blowing against the church across Western Europe. In the not too distant future, most EU members will likely permit abortion, gay marriage, and some form of euthanasia, despite the staunch pro-life advocacy of the Vatican and Catholic bishops in each nation. Traditional legal and financial privileges of the church are likely to be further eroded in many European societies as well.

Up against those realities, Benedict XVI is trying to prepare European Catholics for a future as a "creative minority," meaning a subculture that cannot rely upon state sponsorship (and which, in fact, will likely face considerable social push-back). Sociologically speaking, Benedict's emphasis on reviving traditional markers of Catholic faith and practice -- such as Mass in Latin, or communion on the tongue -- represents a sort of "politics of identity," intended to protect the church from assimilation to the dominant secular milieu.

One can expect a version of this "politics of identity," addressed to Portugal but really directed at all of Europe, to loom especially large during the first stage of the trip in Lisbon.

Jesuit Fr. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesperson, reminded journalists during a May 4 briefing that John Paul II used a 1991 trip to Fatima to announce a Synod of Bishops for Europe. Lombardi suggested that Benedict XVI will likewise probably have a fair bit to say about Europe during his stay in Fatima.

Fatima and "Marian cool"

Benedict XVI does not have the same dramatic personal connection with Fatima as his predecessor John Paul II. The 1981 assassination attempt against John Paul by Mehmet Ali Agca fell on May 13, the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima, and John Paul credited the Virgin of Fatima with saving his life. (According to some reconstructions of the shooting, Ali Agca's bullet followed a strange elliptical path rather than a straight line, thereby avoiding the pope's vital organs.)

One year later, John Paul travelled to the shrine in Portugal to place the bullet doctors had removed from his body in the golden crown on the original statue of Our Lady of Fatima. While in the Chapel of the Apparitions in Fatima on Wednesday, Benedict XVI is expected to recite a prayer recalling John Paul II and his dedication of the bullet from the assassination attempt.

Fatima, of course, is primarily famous for a series of apparitions of Mary to three shepherd children in 1917, and the revelations those children reported receiving. Two of the three children, Jacinta and Francisco Marto, died in the global flu epidemic which began in 1918, while the third, Lúcia Santos, became a Discalced Carmelite nun and died in 2005.

Given John Paul's mystical attachment to Fatima, it's no surprise that he took the revelations seriously indeed. In 2000, he ordered publication of the famous "Third Secret" of Fatima, which for decades had been the object of rumor and speculation. (The first secret was a vision of Hell, while the second involved World War I and the consecration of Russia to the Sacred Heart.) As published by the Vatican in 2000, the third secret features a vision of a bishop dressed in white who ascends a mountain and is fired upon by soldiers will bullets and arrows. The popular interpretation sees in the "bishop in white" a reference to John Paul II and the 1981 assassination attempt.

(For the record, some Fatima devotees believe the text released in 2000 is not the real Third Secret, which they contend involves a doomsday prediction of an apocalypse, perhaps related to "apostasy" in the Catholic church after the Second Vatican Council.)

Ever the rational academic, Benedict XVI has never really embraced the florid visions or private devotions that swirl around Marian sacntuaries such as Fatima, La Salette, or Medjugorje. His interest in Fatima has always been less mystical than theological -- seeing it primarily as a reminder of Mary's role in salvation history as the one who introduces Christ to the world.

In the May 4 Vatican briefing, Lombardi suggested that the best window onto Benedict's attitude towards Fatima comes in his comments back in 2000, when he put the publication of the "Third Secret" into theological context.

On that occasion, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger played down the significance of the secret, saying that "no great mystery is revealed" and that "the veil of the future isn't lifted."

Ratzinger went on to make a careful distinction between public revelation, meaning principally the Bible, and private revelation such as the visions of Fatima. The former, he said, demands faith, while the latter is simply a "help to faith" and the basic criterion for its truth is whether it orients one to Christ.

While acknowledging that Fatima has been approved by the church, he suggested that some of the more famous claims associated with the three seers may have been "interior signs" rather than something belonging to "our normal sensible world." Not every detail of the visions has meaning, he warned, and altogether they represent a "symbolic language" requiring interpretation by the church.

In general, he said, the role of Mary of Fatima is that same as that of Mary in the New Testament, especially the Gospel of John -- she achieves a kind of "synergy" with her son, thereby opening up Christ's mercy for the world, especially its poorest and most forgotten. (Ratzinger noted that the peasant youth of Fatima were not exactly big wheels in "the religious and cultural debates of the day.")

Ratzinger stressed three key words from the text of the Third Secret: "Penance, penance, penance."

"The vision invites us to do penance," he said, "to convert, to orient ourselves to God and his beloved son, in order to receive from his death on the cross the gift of new life."

Ratzinger also stressed Mary's important as a symbol of the dignity of women.

The Virgin of Fatima, he said, "reminds the church and the world of the meaning and importance of the Mother of the Lord in salvation history, and therefore the meaning and value of women, of every woman, in human affairs."

All in all, Pope Benedict XVI's approach to Fatima is a classic illustration of what I've elsewhere called his "Marian cool." He has an obvious personal devotion to Mary, and a keen sense of her theological importance, but he doesn't go in for the more exotic strains of end-time speculation or elaborate spiritual practices. He's too much a master of mainstream Catholic tradition to follow its tributaries very far.

Benedict's, in other words, is a cerebral, restrained, "cool" form of Marian devotion. Watching him trot it out in one of the "hottest" Marian sanctuaries anywhere in the world should make for an interesting experience.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: benedict; benedictxvi; catholic; crisis; fatima; hgass; issues; marian; pope; popes; portugal; secularism; trip; watch

1 posted on 05/08/2010 3:58:22 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 05/08/2010 3:58:58 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Pope Benedict XVI's five foreign trips in 2010 are almost laid out in ascending order of difficulty.

If it's so hard for him to travel in luxury for free, maybe he should stay home.

He could play video games or something, maybe update his Facebook page.

3 posted on 05/08/2010 4:38:38 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner

WTF??? The Pope does NOT travel for free. What religion are you??


4 posted on 05/08/2010 5:14:00 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion,,,,,,the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Ann Archy
The Pope does NOT travel for free.

Pays out of his own pocket, does he?

5 posted on 05/08/2010 5:18:12 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner

OH PLEASE!!!! He travels like any other HEAD of STATE. geesh.....he doesn’t get paid like PRESIDENTS do, ya know....or maybe you don’t.....what religion did you say you were???


6 posted on 05/08/2010 5:26:55 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion,,,,,,the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: humblegunner
Then why doesn't he ride a donkey or something?

You want him to ride a Democrat? What did he ever do to you?

8 posted on 05/08/2010 5:38:26 PM PDT by Lonely Bull
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Ann Archy

Anti-Catholics rarely say what their religion is. They’re afraid that the valid criticism they’d receive would make them look bad along side Catholics. Those little storefront preachers are as money-hungry as they accuse the Catholic church of being.


9 posted on 05/08/2010 5:39:06 PM PDT by Judith Anne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: NYer; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

10 posted on 05/08/2010 5:40:49 PM PDT by narses ( 'Prefer nothing to the love of Christ.')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner

You couldn’t be more idiotic.


11 posted on 05/08/2010 5:43:10 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion,,,,,,the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Judith Anne

Mna....you got that right!!!


12 posted on 05/08/2010 5:44:13 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion,,,,,,the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Ann Archy
You couldn’t be more idiotic.

Well, I could put on a tall hat and travel around on other folk's money.. how would that be?

13 posted on 05/08/2010 5:51:05 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: All
In general, [Pope Benedict XVI] said, the role of Mary of Fatima is that same as that of Mary in the New Testament, especially the Gospel of John -- she achieves a kind of "synergy" with her son, thereby opening up Christ's mercy for the world, especially its poorest and most forgotten. (Ratzinger noted that the peasant youth of Fatima were not exactly big wheels in "the religious and cultural debates of the day.")....

....The Virgin of Fatima, he said, "reminds the church and the world of the meaning and importance of the Mother of the Lord in salvation history, and therefore the meaning and value of women, of every woman, in human affairs."

On an highly emotional spiritual level there has been a great common-ground meeting place between Rome and Mecca in the town of Fatima in Portugal. To quote a Catholic news organization, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed." On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin....

....According to Iranian Television, the woman who appeared to the three shepherd children in 1917 was not the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus, but Fatima, the daughter of the prophet Mohammed, founder of Islam. Her message was reported to be "I am Fatima, daughter of the Prophet of Islam." This television report has helped launch the growing waves of Muslim pilgrims who have been visiting this Christian site in Portugal in recent years.

Catholics, on the other hand, say that the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to the three shepherd children. She told them to pray, especially encouraging the prayer of the Rosary. Lucía, the only surviving recipient of the vision, was entrusted with three "secrets," of which the third has never been made public. She recently assured that the third secret was never intended for general proclamation. Pope John Paul II has had a strong devotion to Our Lady of Fatima, especially since the failed assassination attempt of Ali Agca, which occurred precisely on May 13, 1991, the anniversary of the first vision at Fatima (May 13, 1917).
-- From the thread The Papacy and Islam

This brings us to our second point: namely, why the Blessed Mother, in the 20th century should have revealed herself in the significant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations she would be known as "Our Lady of Fatima." Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as "Our Lady of Fatima" as a pledge and a sign of hope to the Moslem people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her divine Son too.

Evidence to support these views is found in the historical fact that the Moslems occupied Portugal for centuries. At the time when they were finally driven out, the last Moslem chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima. A Catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him she not only stayed behind when the Moslems left, but even embraced the Faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he lived to Fatima. Thus, the very place where our Lady appeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed.
-- Archbishop Fulton Sheen, in the book The World's First Love

On the Lady of Fatima:
Our Lady of Fatima in the Light of History
The Papacy and Islam
Mary And The Moslems(The Virgin Mother Mary & Islam)
Area Catholics to celebrate 90th anniversary of Fatima
New movie about Our Lady of Fatima to be screened in major U.S. cities
Fatima: The new Movie… Deception a-go-go [the Fatima apparitions were really UFO manifestations]
On Catholics joining hands with Muslims:
Malaysia Catholics oppose non-'Allah' Bible
Catholic church in Cologne collects money for a mosque
A Catholic Church (in Venice Italy) Turns Into A Mosque (each Friday)
Muslims seek crisis management plan with Vatican
Pope meets with Muslim scholars, urges better ties
Vatican, Muslims prepare historic meeting with Pope
Muslim-Catholic pact to foster respect
Pope offers 'working meeting' with Muslims
Why Benedict XVI Is So Cautious with the Letter of the 138 Muslims
Muslims and Catholics release mission statement
Muslims, Catholics find common ground
Muslims Get "Prayer Room" at Catholic University
New York Catholics visit mosque, learn about Islam
Catholics Ponder Muslim Coexistence
Pope Invites Muslims to Dialogue, Slams "Holy Wars"(Hooray for the Pope!)

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

14 posted on 05/08/2010 5:59:31 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Pretentiousness is so beneath me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Judith Anne

They are actually more money hungry. The average salary for Protestant ministers is 100K with a rectory. For Catholic priests in my area it is under 20K. I know in places where the cost of living is higher they get paid more but nothing like the Protestants.


15 posted on 05/08/2010 8:01:37 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
This is supposedly from the thread, "On the Papacy and Islam" and is found in your post above:

On an highly emotional spiritual level there has been a great common-ground meeting place between Rome and Mecca in the town of Fatima in Portugal. To quote a Catholic news organization, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed." On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin....

....According to Iranian Television, the woman who appeared to the three shepherd children in 1917 was not the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus, but Fatima, the daughter of the prophet Mohammed, founder of Islam. Her message was reported to be "I am Fatima, daughter of the Prophet of Islam." This television report has helped launch the growing waves of Muslim pilgrims who have been visiting this Christian site in Portugal in recent years.

You appear to have combined those paragraphs with two other paragraphs from Archbishop Sheen, to make some sort of bizarre meaning out of the whole patchwork. You place those unrelated separately sourced paragraphs indented under a quote from the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI, as though HE were saying what Iranian television said.

I do not trust Iranian television to tell the truth about Catholic beliefs about Fatima, do you? And what is this patchwork supposed to mean? You have multiple sources for individual paragraph, and show no link for a source the the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI's remarks, nor do you give a source for the Iranian TV remarks. Nor do you make it explicit that it's from another FR thread posted by someone else.

It appears as though in your efforts to slander the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, you will go to any lengths.

Careful inspection of that bizarre post leads one to believe that any hope of serious conversation is Sisyphean.

16 posted on 05/08/2010 11:13:01 PM PDT by Judith Anne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

Furthermore, Alex, the thread you linked “The Papacy and Islam is from May 2007, is nearly 400 posts long, and the post you used to excerpt the two paragraphs is not given.

I am not going to read 400 posts to verify that two paragraphs you may have cut and pasted actually exist. So, given your reputation for record-keeping, where in those nearly 400 posts on a three year old thread, can those two paragraphs be found?


17 posted on 05/08/2010 11:18:26 PM PDT by Judith Anne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

Best of safe travels and good fortune to the Holy Father and to all the lives that he’ll spiritually enhance during his visits to other Countries! A powerfully beautiful thing.


18 posted on 05/09/2010 1:32:14 PM PDT by NoRedTape
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson