Ask Dr. Elia: When do I disclose past sins to loved ones?

Mormon Times ^ | May 25, 2010 | Dr. Elia Gourgouris

[Colofornian]

Dear Dr. Elia, I love reading your column on Mormon Times, and appreciate how you've addressed the issue of pornography. I had a pornography addiction from my late teens, off and on, through almost 17 years of marriage. My wife never knew until four-and-a-half years ago, when I finally told her — I had overcome the addiction about three years earlier, with no relapse (and now, almost eight years later I'm still free, with no sense of weakness or teetering but still wary and vigilant).

Needless to say, it was devastating. She sunk into deep depression, went through anger, rage, and such sadness and hurt that it was almost unbearable, for both of us. It strained our marriage, though neither of us ever seriously considered separating.

Through my addiction, I had self-deceived to the point where I had never confessed to an ecclesiastical leader. I thought I could beat this myself and confess to the Lord. I now realize how foolish that was. So when I confessed to my wife, she had me meet with our bishop where I did confess, and finally at that point, was able to complete the repentance process. The loss of my recommend for a time was painful, but necessary to fulfill the process, and now, to make the long story short, my dear wife is finally mostly healed for the past year, and she expresses trust in me again and the most love and appreciation that she's ever expressed in our marriage.

I too am reborn in the love that I am able to share with her, and though she never in a million years would have said this would happen, she even refers to this terrible trial in our lives as something that she'd do over again (she says she'd marry me again, even knowing all of this), for the wonderful growth it has resulted in for both of us

I say all of that as a preface to a question that's been bothering me for some time. When my bishop heard my confession, he was visibly shaken and about the first thing he said pierced me to the core — he said, "there are so many people who look up to you..." I was stung with how I had deceived them by my longstanding actions, although I had struggled to overcome it and indeed had gone for months, and even years at a time, at times, without falling. Yet my overall addiction was not cured.

My question to you is this: Am I still deceiving those around me, the vast majority of whom do not know about my past addiction, who currently look up to me as an example? I honestly try to do my best in my family and church callings, and have been so greatly blessed ever since overcoming this...I feel the Spirit on a regular basis, and serve regularly in the temple...am currently holding a prominent calling in my ward. And I do not feel any inclination toward ever relapsing, while still remaining vigilant. But I know I'm looked up to, and I don't know if that's even fair...if they knew my past, would they hold me in such esteem?

Or perhaps would it help them to know what I've gone through, would it be a kind of strength, and should I share the lessons I've learned in public (four years ago, I never would have dreamed of disclosing publicly my past addiction, but now, if it would be the "right" thing to do, I'd seriously consider it)?

I feel a desire to share this with close friends, so as not to feel like I'm "hiding" something from them, like otherwise I'm being seen falsely by them. Do you think it would be unwise to disclose something like this? I've read counsel by some of the general authorities that we should not disclose personal sins to our children, for example, as it may cause negative influence on them. I don't know how disclosing my past would have an effect on others...but I'm feeling more and more like I'm not being totally honest with others unless I do. I feel conflicted, and would appreciate your counsel.

Thank you, A troubled "brother"

Dear troubled brother, I can't even begin to express how impressed I am with your honesty, humility and willingness to choose the right. Clearly the healing process of overcoming your addiction has paid great dividends. When making a decision about disclosing our "personal sins" to others, there's one main question that needs to be answered. Would this disclosure cause more pain, disappointment, and have a negative impact on others as compared to the potential help it might offer?

President Brigham Young took the following approach towards members disclosing sins to others: "Tell to the public that which belongs to the public. If you have sinned against the people, confess to them. If you have sinned against a family or a neighborhood, go to them and confess. If you have sinned against your Ward, confess to your Ward. If you have sinned against one individual, take the person by yourselves and make your confession to him. And if you have sinned against your God, or against yourselves, confess to God and keep the matter to yourselves, for I do not want to know anything about it." (Discourses of Brigham Young, 1954, 158).

Clearly you have confessed this to your ecclesiastical leader and your spouse. You have gone through the repentance process and made amends by living a life of complete sobriety. Your relationship with your dear wife is better than ever before. I wonder however, if you have completely forgiven yourself? The only reason why I say that, is because after all these years your mind, heart and soul should be completely at peace — the kind of peace that comes from self-forgiveness.

Obviously, I'm leaning towards putting this behind you, and continuing to serve the Lord, your family and all those around you. There will be many opportunities to bless other people's lives without disclosing your past mistakes. You are not being a hypocrite plain and simple. Everyone has a past, except for the Savior. Enjoy the blessings of sobriety, the invaluable lessons and growth you have achieved, and the new closeness you have with your wife. Help those in need around you and continue to be a good example.

You're not required to do anything more. Be at peace with yourself and enjoy the blessing of the Atonement — it's not just for everyone else, it's for you too!

God bless, Dr. Elia

[Colofornian]

From the column: President Brigham Young took the following approach towards members disclosing sins to others: "Tell to the public that which belongs to the public. If you have sinned against the people, confess to them. If you have sinned against a family or a neighborhood, go to them and confess. If you have sinned against your Ward, confess to your Ward. If you have sinned against one individual, take the person by yourselves and make your confession to him. And if you have sinned against your God, or against yourselves, confess to God and keep the matter to yourselves, for I do not want to know anything about it." (Discourses of Brigham Young, 1954, 158).

I've probably disagreed with 90% of Brigham's theology, but not bad advice here. (Is there anything I'm not catching in this Young citation?)

From the column: Clearly you have confessed this to your ecclesiastical leader and your spouse. You have gone through the repentance process and made amends by living a life of complete sobriety.

I'm wondering...http://Mormonlife.com posts links to a lot of Mormon articles out there...when they post articles, they give their site readers an opportunity to give a thumbs up or thumbs down...Not sure why over 70% of them were giving this a "thumbs down" -- was it having to protect "PR image" vs. confessing their sins operating as a motivator?

From the column: I wonder however, if you have completely forgiven yourself?

Where does it say in the Bible we need to forgive ourselves? What? Are we the ultimate authority to whom we have to appeal to re: forgiveness?

For too many Christians and Mormons, this is not any hoop that needs to be jumped through. (Besides, for Mormons it gives the added dimension of sounding like they are appealing to themselves -- who they believe to be a "god-in-embryo" -- as if the "divine embryo" within is issuing some pardon).

[Mr. K]

wait...this dude confessed to his wife that he jerked off to porn? geez dude, put on a dress- yer an embarrassment

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

The “forgive yourself” idea is not bad except in it’s phrasing.

The idea behind that concept is the acceptance of your forgiveness.

If Jesus forgives you of your sin, and yet you still have it pulled up in such a way that it hinders your walk with God or relationships outside of those that the sin directly affected, then you have not “forgiven yourself”, that is to say you have not accepted the forgiveness given to you by Jesus.

[Saundra Duffy]

“I can’t even begin to express how impressed I am with your honesty, humility and willingness to choose the right.”

I like this statement and agree with it. The man is a prince to have gone through this trial and come out victorious.

A lot of Catholics benefit from going to confession. How do you feel about that, Colo?

[RobRoy]

I’d confess such a thing to a friend, but not my wife. And if it was in the past I would keep it there. I would confess it to nobody NOW because it is in the past.

The results of his confession speaks for themself. It did not go well and permanently scarred his marriage. There really is such a thing as TMI.

Don’t get me wrong. If I stole money from someone years ago I would still need to, once repenting, repay it. But this is a completely different animal.

[Colofornian]

The idea behind that concept is the acceptance of your forgiveness.

The acceptance of "your" forgiveness or the acceptance of "Christ's forgiveness? (If the latter, then it's a matter of receiving HIS forgiveness -- NOT appealing to yourself for forgiveness -- as if we are the source and target of the appeal)

If Jesus forgives you of your sin, and yet you still have it pulled up in such a way that it hinders your walk with God or relationships outside of those that the sin directly affected, then you have not “forgiven yourself”, that is to say you have not accepted the forgiveness given to you by Jesus.

Lds "prophet" Spencer W.Kimball wrote a book I strongly disagree with ...called The Miracle of Forgiveness. He said that if a person repents of a given sin; then commits that same sin again; he never repented to begin with...

Now doesn't that present all kinds of problems? Isn't that directing the person constantly back to "Ground Zero?" Ground Zero being themselves -- versus looking to the cross?

I see both concepts -- this one -- and "forgiving yourself" -- as problematic. They both place the focus on yourself.

The “forgive yourself” idea is not bad except in it’s phrasing.

I agree it's bad phrasing. And I'm sure for many it's mere semantics.

But the whole premise it places -- that we are on a similar or same bar as high as God in the forgiveness chain -- should be rooted out by religious leaders and religious counselors/psychologists. Because it reinforces theological nonsense -- not rooted in the Bible -- this phrasing should be tossed aside.

[BenKenobi]

Disagree. This is something that needs to be confessed between husband and wife.

Yes, it will hurt the both of you, but you don’t see how you are hurting your wife by not telling her?

[Sudetenland]

In AA we say write your personal inventory, then admit your "shortcomings" to God and another human being (a sponsor or priest that you can trust to never reveal your secrets to anyone else) then burn the da*n thing. If you cheated on your wife, you had best never tell her if you want your marriage to survive. Most marriages can't survive that kind of revelation, even when the transgressions were a result of alcoholism. On the other hand I have seen some very healthy marriages in which they followed that advice.

You have to evaluate who you are trying to help by telling your spouse. Most of the time you are simply hurting your spouse to free yourself from guilt.

[chris_bdba]

I agree and am a woman. I have a hard time believing a woman would go through a year of depression for that? YIKES get a grip folks lots of it can be found without even looking and IMHO calling something like that an addiction is crazy in and of itself.

[BuckeyeTexan]

It is bad advice to tell someone to confess past sins to a spouse when those sins were committed prior to becoming a believer and when those sins have no direct consequences for a spouse.

Confess your past sins to the Lord for it is his blood that pays your penalty. We receive grace and salvation from the Lord.

There is no reason to burden a spouse or any other loved one with your past sins. Those sins are your burden to carry not your spouse’s.

Now, if you sin against your spouse or loved one after you become a believer and those sins directly affect that person, then it is appropriate to confess and ask forgiveness from that person.

[Vendome]

guy is an idiot and is carrying this thing to far.
If your conscious directs you to a new pathof enlightenment, confessio and forgiveness from those you have wounded.

Stop there.

[Elsie]

OUCH!

[BuckeyeTexan]

Agreed. Sins committed prior to becoming a believer are between the sinner and the Lord. It is wrong, and I would go as far as to say that it is even emotionally abusive, to burden a spouse or loved one with confessions about sins that do not directly affect them.

Such confessions have only one motivation - the selfish desire to make the sinner feel better by coming clean. So the sinner feels better and the spouse is emotionally destroyed? To what end? Why intentionally burden a spouse? Those sins are the sinner’s burdens to carry.

[Elsie]

 

I like this statement and agree with it. The man is a prince to have gone through this trial and come out victorious.  (as long as he doesn't DRESS like PRINCE!)

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What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?

 

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"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982

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"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

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"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65

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"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196

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"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.

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"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965

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"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155

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"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.

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[Saundra Duffy]

When I was in YWAM, they spent an entire week during Crossroads DTS on the subject of masturbation - how it is bad and wrong. It got boring after a while.

So what’s your point?

[svcw]

He is not a prince he is a pervert.
Why if he were “really free” would he tell his wife? What purpose did it serve?
Is confession good, of course.
It is odd he waited so long to tell his wife, after he is (so called) “free”.

[svcw]

Sandy, a week? Really this is beyond credulity.

[Utah Binger]

I’ll take all my sins to the grave with me. My loved ones do not need to know anything personal. If in the great beyond I find out that those sins were not sins, I’ll be free. If it turns out they were grave sins, I’ll repent then. And if there is no great beyond, who cares?

Also consider this. Old men who ask you to confess your sins to them are probably getting their own excitement. That’s why they ask these stupid sex questions.

Show me a man that has never had sex with five finger Mabel and I’ll show you a liar.

[TNoldman]

AA 12 step Program tells you to “make amends” but do so in a ways that does not harm.

[BuckeyeTexan]

You have to evaluate who you are trying to help by telling your spouse. Most of the time you are simply hurting your spouse to free yourself from guilt.

Exactly. Those sins are your burden to carry. Burdening your spouse to free yourself from guilt is selfish and emotionally abusive. Confess your sins to the Lord not your spouse.

[Utah Binger]

Confess your sins to the Lord not your spouse.

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better.

[svcw]

Confess your sins to the Lord

Jesus is sufficent. Amen!

[RobRoy]

>>...but you don’t see how you are hurting your wife by not telling her?<<

No, I don’t. Not if it is past stuff, already repented of, etc. And, as with the case in the OP, it will DEFINITELY hurt her if I do tell her.

Current stuff is completely different. I think people make a huge mistake stirring up the present with past sins. As a Christian, I look forward, not back.

[HangnJudge]

Confess Sin to the Lord
Then, Follow His Lead
In the Catholic Tradition, Confess to a Priest
A Protestant will often be "More Direct"

Whatever He says to do, Do It

The Most Powerful Approach to Healing from Sin
comes, IMHO, directly from the Lord's Prayer.
Forgive Us our Trespasses,
as We Forgive Those who Trespass Against Us

Forgiving Others of their Sins Works Backwards
By Surrendering our Anger, Hurt, Spite to the Lord
About ALL THINGS we hold against others,
Real or Imagined, Their Fault, Our Fault, or No-one's Fault
That Prayer we are directed to Pray
asks that we be forgiven too.

IMHO
Until One Systematically Surrenders
one's Hold of the Sins of Others,
Surrendering the Anger, Hurt, Spite against others,
Our own sins will continue their harm against us, and others

Perhaps your mileage may vary...

The Sin of Pornography is not,
necessarily directed at your Wife.
It is, generally a dispersing Obsession
that has little to do with Love.
More in the line with Obsessive Gambling

If the Lord directs one to confess to their Wife,
I would assume that He is in the process of
trying to heal Her of some harm also,
possibly through a Trial of Fire

I see no clear path on confession of this matter otherwise

And this from one who has had to
confess much to his Wife in the Past...

[Tennessee Nana]

“I can’t even begin to express how impressed I am with your honesty, humility and willingness to choose the right.”

I like this statement and agree with it. The man is a prince to have gone through this trial and come out victorious.
________________________________________________

No Saundra the guy is a jerk to burden his wife the way he did...

if it was so important to tell his wife why didnt he tell her back when he was watching porn ???

He siined for years and lived a lie...

and then he stops and gets a handle on the temptation...

then 3 1/2 years later he decides to abuse his wife with the knowledge of his past sex sins ???

“Precious, guess what ???”

“What Honey ??’’

“You know how you always thought that I was faithful and true to you and a clean living loving husband who kept myself only unto you “

“Ah yes dear ??”

“Well MJuffin, you were not enough woman for me. I have spent years cheatin on you in my mind, looking at dirty pictures of naked young women and lusting after them. Hows that you feel ??”

She should have his dumb cheatin butt right then...

for her own sake...

Apparantly he didnt learn anything...

[Tennessee Nana]

High five..

[BenKenobi]

Part of repentence is restitution. That would involve confessing to your wife. Yeah, it’s hard, but this is something that will tear the two of you apart if/when she does find out.

I’m not saying you have to confess all your sins to your wife. It’s just that this particular one has consequences for your bond together.

[Sudetenland]

Disagree vehemently with that. A person must consider the harm they may do in restitution and their motive for doing so. Confessing infidelity to one's spouse is going to do more damage to them. To do so to assuage your own guilt is selfish and destructive.

Get right with God and Jesus and let them perform the healing process.

[BenKenobi]

“No Saundra the guy is a jerk to burden his wife the way he did...

if it was so important to tell his wife why didnt he tell her back when he was watching porn ???”

That’s not the way sin works. I personally as a husband would rather my wife confess these things knowing that they are wrong. This, in turn makes me comfortable sharing similar things with her.

Confessing wrongs is not a dealbreaker. Not confessing them is.

[BenKenobi]

“Now, if you sin against your spouse or loved one after you become a believer and those sins directly affect that person, then it is appropriate to confess and ask forgiveness from that person.”

This is what I was trying to say in not so many words. Better said than I ever could. From what I can see is that this occurred after they were married, which is why it is pertinent, and should be shared as part of restitution.

[BenKenobi]

“Confessing infidelity to one’s spouse is going to do more damage to them. To do so to assuage your own guilt is selfish and destructive.”

It’s not done to assuage guilt, but rather to get things right. It’s the question, if I have hurt someone without them knowing, haven’t I still sinned? And part of restitution is revealing the truth. Yes, it is painful, but so is sin.

[Tennessee Nana]

But he didnt confess his sin to his wife when he was doing it...

He was having too much of a good secret time to even think about what he was doing to her...

If he was so “innocent” and HAD to tell his wife, why didnt he go to her and ask her to pray for him ???

apparantly even now he hasnt been for any type of counselling for himself...

He just dumped everythging onto his unsuspecting wife...

and now HE is the big hero and the Cavalry “rescuing” her...

Why didnt he “confess” to his religious leader ???

What a creep...

She should have shot or left his dumb selfish abusing butt

BTW theres more to this story than the “impressive” crapola he said in his “confession letter”

Plus the whole thimng is designed as a titilating shocker for his amusement...

and not as a channel of repentance and healing..

shes the victim but he makes her out the bad guy...

and wants to come off smelling like a rose and a hard done for husband...

Thank you UB for what you said..

[Larry Lucido]

What you said.

[Sudetenland]

But you are harming them by telling them. Yes you have sinned, but a sin is an offense against God, not the other person. If, by your actions, you have actually (physically or materially) harmed the other person, then restitution is appropriate, but when the other person has suffered no actual injury, confessing your infidelity to them doesn't help them, it is an effort to assuage your own guilty feelings.

In AA, we teach that you share your transgressions with God and another (trusted) person. In my opinion, the purpose of this sharing with another person is to perform an external act of faith. Trusting that in your sharing, God will protect you from any damage from your sharing. You are forced to trust another human being and God.

We never recommend that you share your infidelity with your spouse. Always paramount is that you do no harm to others when performing your restitution (we call it making amends).

In confessing to one's spouse, you are causing pain where there was no pain (assuming they didn't know before). The question then is, to what purpose are you causing that pain?

Confessing to God (or Jesus) and making restitution to him through your contrition releaves that sin of power, allowing you to make your amends to your spouse through "right living" from then on. We call it making a living amends. Living amends can be done without harming the other party.

These are the stickiest of problems and very difficult to deal with, but the main point is that, as you have already harmed them without their knowledge, you should not do further harm by informing them of your transgression. RAther, you should "take up your bed and walk and sin no more."

Lord knows I am no expert at this and I hope I am not making a hash out of it, but it's my take on it.

[BuckeyeTexan]

Restitution is not Biblical. The concept of restitution implies that the blood of Jesus Christ is insufficient to cover our sins.

Christ says his Grace is sufficient.

[BenKenobi]

“If he was so “innocent” and HAD to tell his wife, why didnt he go to her and ask her to pray for him ???”

Pray for what?

Would you rather he were still ‘living the lie’? Repentence sucks. It hurts you, but it’s a consequence of sin.

Would the hurt be less if she caught him at it?

[BenKenobi]

Not at all.

There’s more then just one relationship here.

Christ - husband

Christ - Wife.

and Wife - husband.

Restitution has nothing to do with the relationship between the husband and Christ. Christ forgives the husband when he confesses his sins.

The relationship between the husband and the wife is entirely different. This is where restitution comes into play. Restitution seeks to repair the relationship between the husband who sinned against his wife after he’s already confessed the sins against God.

[BenKenobi]

“But you are harming them by telling them.”

Less so then if they found out the truth through accident.

“Yes you have sinned, but a sin is an offense against God, not the other person.”

And here is why we disagree. He has sinned against God and his wife, which is why he must do restitution to his wife. He’s essentially saying, “you aren’t enough for me, so I have to engage in porn to satisfy myself.” This is a trust issue. He’s also saying, “I don’t trust you enough to come to you when I need something that only you can give.”

These problems will continue on and make a hash of their marriage if it continued without him confessing.

[Sudetenland]

Restitution is for you and the injured party, not God or Christ. That is why you should cause no harm in doing it.

[Elsie]

So what’s your point?

I can still see.

[BuckeyeTexan]

It's not done to assuage guilt, but rather to get things right. It's the question, if I have hurt someone without them knowing, haven't I still sinned? And part of restitution is revealing the truth. Yes, it is painful, but so is sin.

Let me tell you a true story. A man in my church cheated on his wife during the first year of their marriage. Ten years and two children later, he was saved. He confided in his Pastor who advised him to confess to his wife and ask for her forgiveness. He did. His wife was crushed. She felt their marriage was a sham and divorced him.

Now he sees his two children on weekends and holidays. The children have lost the security of a loving, Christian, two-parent home. The mother of his children speaks to him only when absolutely necessary. A marriage and home torn apart. The confession of sin caused far more damage to his wife and children than the original sin.

How could his confession possibly be considered "the right thing to do?" There was no restitution. There was only destruction.

[RobRoy]

>>Part of repentence is restitution. That would involve confessing to your wife. Yeah, it’s hard, but this is something that will tear the two of you apart if/when she does find out.

I’m not saying you have to confess all your sins to your wife. It’s just that this particular one has consequences for your bond together.<<

I would need a biblical reference for that first sentence regarding a sin such as this. It implies that I should tell my wife every single time I see an attractive woman and confess that I found her attractive. Neurotic requesting for forgiveness every time you wrong someone, especially past things for which you have already repented makes absolutely no sense (and has no biblical support) when it will only hurt others and possibly damage relationships.

If you could show me a couple of biblical references to suggest otherwise, I may consider changing my position.

[RobRoy]

>>Show me a man that has never had sex with five finger Mabel and I’ll show you a liar.<<

This.

[RobRoy]

>>Less so then if they found out the truth through accident.<<

Lets say they did. Ever see About Schmidt? That’s just what happened. Which would have been worse? Imagine her telling him, years after the affair, but years before she died. Would it have affected their marriage?

You don’t confess such stuff to your spouse after the event. A woman who we know had an affair, broke it off, then confessed afterward to her husband. They are still married but in his “weaker” moments, he uses it against her.

If I had such a thing in my past and stopped and asked the Lord for forgiveness, there is no way I would tell my wife. If she ever found out I would say the same things I and others are saying here. You can hope she doesn’t find out and go forward forgiven, or you can tell her and run a very high risk that it will end or permanently damage the relationship. And maybe she should rise above it, but if she wouldn’t rise above it if she found out later, she would not have risen above it when you “confessed” to her.

One asks for forgiveness for themself, not for others. I ask for forgiveness after the fact only if the person knows they have been wronged. And if I steel their money and then offer to return it, they know they have been wronged, so I would ask for their forgiveness. For this sort of thing that would be absurd. It only has a downside and no upside.

[BenKenobi]

“His wife was crushed. She felt their marriage was a sham and divorced him.”

“A man in my church cheated on his wife during the first year of their marriage.”

“Ten years and two children later, he was saved.”

Ok, just so I have it right. You have a Christian wife marrying an unbelieving husband? You aren’t supposed to do this, and this is just one of many reasons why.

Cautionary tale for the women who want to ‘save’ their husbands. Unequally yoked is a huge, huge issue.

[BenKenobi]

“If I had such a thing in my past and stopped and asked the Lord for forgiveness, there is no way I would tell my wife.”

The woman I would like to marry, we’ve discussed such things, and worse than you can probably conceive. Confessions on her part and mine. I feel she knows me better than I know myself, and she feels the same. We have no secrets from each other, and there’s no need for it.

It’s a blessing for me knowing I have someone who knows who I truly am here on this earth and still loves me anyways.

Maybe it’s different if you don’t have that rapport before you marry. I couldn’t say. For us, it’s always been part of the deal.

[BenKenobi]

“I would need a biblical reference for that first sentence regarding a sin such as this. It implies that I should tell my wife every single time I see an attractive woman and confess that I found her attractive. Neurotic requesting for forgiveness every time you wrong someone, especially past things for which you have already repented makes absolutely no sense (and has no biblical support) when it will only hurt others and possibly damage relationships.”

Why is the worst outcome, ‘damaging relationships’. You’ve already damaged your relationship through sin.

As for confessing that you find another woman attractive, why is this such an issue? Confess it, move on. It’s not like she doesn’t notice you staring at her best friend. ;)

I was speaking more about pornography. Rightly or wrongly the reason you don’t want to confess it to your wife is because you know you have hurt her already and you hope it will all blow over if you don’t do anything about it.

Look, if you didn’t think it would hurt your wife, you would have already told her. You don’t need proof from me, the proof is in your heart.

If you want scriptural proof, “better your eye be taken out, than your whole body lost”. Matthew 5, sermon on the mount. It’s right there.

If you could show me a couple of biblical references to suggest otherwise, I may consider changing my position.

[RobRoy]

Mrs. Robroy and I have been married for 12 years and the honeymoon is not over. We’re both 56. I love her like crazy and am convinced she loves me as much. We totally trust each other. Utterly and completely. She is my best friend and I am her best friend. We never run out of things to talk about.

If I had such a thing as this in my past within those twelve years and had asked for forgiveness from the Lord it would be finished. There is absolutely no way I would tell her. She is only human. Would she leave me? No way. Would it permanently damage our marriage. Absolutely. The Lord forgets. People don’t. If she were to find out anyway I would explain exactly what I have on this thread. And she would understand.

And our marriage would survive, but be damaged exactly as it would have had I “confessed” voluntarily.

It would be more respectful of her to live with my own memory of my past sin and not burden her with the same. IOW, NOT telling her after the fact is the REAL act of love.

[BuckeyeTexan]

It wasn’t a story about the consequences of an unequally yoked marriage. Neither of them were saved when they married. They both became saved at some point after his affair. She first and then him.

His confession provided no restitution. It brought destruction upon innocent loved ones.

[RobRoy]

Two things you said are important: “The woman I would like to marry.”

It means you are not actually married and have discussed things from “before” you are married. Heck, my wife knows I visited a prostitute at age 18 in Wallace Idaho. What is there to forgive? She was not my wife then.

Second, you said, “We have no secrets from each other, and there’s no need for it.”

If you are normal human beings, you need to add the word “yet” to that statement.

Heck, I have innocent banter at work with women I work with that would drive my wife literally nuts if she heard it. I avoid it as much as possible, but we cannot be locked away in private cells. The modern workforce involves women and men working together, so we deal with it the best we can.

BTW, it would drive my wife nuts not because it is immoral, but because she would see it differently than it is meant. The women at work know my wife and love her. And we all strongly respect each other’s relationships.

You marry this girl and I guarantee that within a year you will have incidents where, if you are neurotic enough about it, you will find yourself apologizing for little things, and hurting your marriage a little more every single time. If you see a woman that is attractive and the furthest your mind goes is that you think she is attractive, and you don’t “linger” in looking at her, you are only proving the plumbing is working. That is a good thing.

Tell your wife about it at your own, and your marriage’s, peril.

If you do something stupid, even like having an affair, repent and ask for God’s forgiveness. The ONLY reason I would tell my wife is if you think she may catch something from you.