Is Sola Fide unscriptural? {Open}

www.cronos.com ^ | 31-May-2010 | Self Topic

[Cronos]

We dance around this topic each time on the RF of FR, so let's have a focused discussion on this

Is sola fide scriptural or unscriptural?

Let's take a few verses from scripture in context:

Matthew 25:31-46 -

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee and hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This very clearly does not say anything about faith ALONE

John 5: 24:

 ²⁴Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 ²⁵Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 ²⁶For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

 ²⁷And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 ²⁸Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

 ²⁹And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This clearly points out that faith is important but not ALONE in salvation

Then James 2:14 to 26

James 2:14-26 -
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Then let's look at what St. Paul says:
Romans 2

5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 -

3:10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are." Doesn't fit with Sola Fide, now does it?

Galatians 6:7-9:

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Then John 3: 4 to 20

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.
7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.'
8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?
11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d]
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g]
19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

This clearly talks about baptism and how we do good deeds IN our belief. Our faith and works are tied together irreversibly.

The Church teaches that we believe and receive through God's grace. We are not adding to Christ's work, His one-time sacrifice for all time. Paul and the Church condemn works without grace as we cannot earn grace but are ALL (no conditional election) freely granted it as a gift

[Cronos]

Protestants are mis-taught about the role Catholics believe good works play in salvation: we do not perform good works in order to enter a state of justification.

The Council of Trent stated that "nothing which precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification" (Decree on Justification 8).

In fact, it is impossible for an unjustified person to do supernaturally good works, since these are based on the virtue of charity (supernatural love), which an unjustified person does not have. Good works therefore flow from our reception of justification; they do not cause us to enter a state of justification. Good works increase the righteousness we are given at justification and please God, who promises to give us supernatural rewards on the last day, including the gift of eternal life (Rom 2:6-7, Gal 6:6-10).

God's grace is transformational, and though outside God's grace we can do nothing, through his grace he does not only declare us righteous, but makes us righteous

[Cronos]

Note —> the topic is sola fide alone. No aspersions raised on Luther, Calvin etc as persons, that’s not relevant.

[Iscool]

Protestants are mis-taught about the role Catholics believe good works play in salvation: we do not perform good works in order to enter a state of justification.

The Council of Trent stated that "nothing which precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification" (Decree on Justification 8).

No, I don't think we're mis-taught...You guys are all over the map on this issues that once you pin down one person, another pops up and tells us something else...

The issue isn't so much justification, the issue is salvation...Eternity with God...And you're position on salvation is that you must work for it, to earn it...

[fishtank]

Dispensational understanding will clarify those passages.

“Systematic Theology” by LS Chafer is a good place to see this explained in detail. Also, see “Reign of the Servant Kings” by Joseph Dillow and also “Once Saved Always Saved” by RT Kendall.

[CitizenUSA]

Sola fide (by faith alone) is scriptural.

As yourself this, could a man on his deathbed repent and be saved? If so, it’s too late for him to do good works, so he must be justified by faith alone.

[Cronos]

The issue in this post is sola fide. The Council of Trent stated that "nothing which precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification" (Decree on Justification 8). That is Church teaching, has been Church teaching and will remain Church teaching, teaching given by Christ and handed down through His Apostles.

Now you can make up whatever you want about Church teachings on sola fide, but our belief is encapsulated in "nothing which precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification"

Where does YOUR Bible say "sola fide" and how do you prove that faith ALONE?

We say Faith is critical, but not ALONE in justification -- like everything else, these is a more complex theme.

[BipolarBob]

I’m no Catholic, far from it. But they can’t be wrong about everything. If you love God and have faith, you will be impelled to do good works. Faith without works is a dead or dying faith. If you don’t feel the urge to do something for your fellow man or society to bring them to Christ or show your belief, you have to question are you really saved if you can’t walk the walk.

[badpacifist]

Sola gratia

[markomalley]

Frankly, I think that the discussion is a lot of word play.

God gives us the grace to have faith. We respond to God’s grace by faith. Our faith, if it is genuine, is shown through works.

[esquirette]

Mark: Well said.

[Iscool]

Perhaps to get a grip on this conversation, you may need to define justification as well as salvation...And is the issue ‘faith alone’ for justification or salvation...

[Hegewisch Dupa]

I’m no Catholic, far from it. But they can’t be wrong about everything.

Very true - after all, they don't call us 'muslims' ;)

[Cronos]

1. Where in scripture does it say that sola fide (faith ALONE) justifies one?
2. A deathbed repenter and believer does the work in grace of ACCEPTING Christ -- that is faith and grace and works. The repenter, by the grace of God accepts Christ's sacrifice and God does the rest to save him. Remember, good works alone cannot save you if you deny Christ. You can be Gandhi, but if you deny Christ and his grace, well, I leave that decision to God

[Gamecock]

Now you are saying faith is a work?

[sueuprising]

Sola Fide is not unscriptural, on the contrary, it is the point of beginning for the Christian life. Romans 1:17 states “But the righteous man shall live by faith”, Romans 3:28,” For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law” Romans 4:16,”It is by faith in order that it may be in accordance with grace”, Ephesians 2:8, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God” are just a few passages from scripture that indicate salvation is a gift that comes through faith alone. That is not to say that faith alone becomes the criteria for the Christian walk. When one is a regenerate Christian, then one is Created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them” (Eph 3:8) As Christians we have a responsiblity to edify other believers and to treat our neighbors with compassion. Yet it is not the works themselves which carry the means of salvation. The good works are the fruit of the spirit defined in Galatians. If we were to consider anything apart from faith as causing our salvation, then we would be dangerously close to forming the conclusion that acts of piety are what saves you. This is clearly not biblical. Aspirations of holy living are the direct result of having had faith in Christ alone. That is what I believe is the Protestant view of sola fide. There are hyper calvinists, of course, who believe that faith alone dismisses the validity of a Christian having to do good in the world, which is preposterous. Their stance is not embraced by the majority of the evangelical Protestant world, however. Faith alone was a necessary foundational precept to establish because it emphasised that you, a sinner, can do nothing to earn your way into heaven. It is all a work of Christ imputed to those who have faith in Him. Once a sinner is justified (made righteous) by that faith, then the business of living daily as a Christian begins.

[CitizenUSA]

You are certainly right. Faith without works is dead.

Remember the parable about the guy who got one talent and buried it? He didn’t produce anything, so his master was very angry. The guy with one talent was told he could have at least placed the money in the bank to gain interest. I take this to mean the guy could have at least supported those, the guys with five and two talents, who were putting their faith to work.

Nevertheless, faith is the critical first step.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9

That’s why I believe a dying man can repent at the last instant of life and still be saved, by faith, without works.

[Cronos]

Please could you clarify what you mean by dispensational understanding? I haven’t got either of those books at hand and it’d be some time before I get it (in the process of shifting, so actually trying to give out books for now instead of getting new ones :)

[Cronos]

Well, I AM Catholic, but I would like this post to be purely discussing "sola fide", focussing on the "sola" part. I do believe that faith IS critical, important, but not alone. What you've said is very succinct and true
If you love God and have faith, you will be impelled to do good works. Faith without works is a dead or dying faith. If you don’t feel the urge to do something for your fellow man or society to bring them to Christ or show your belief, you have to question are you really saved if you can’t walk the walk

[Cronos]

That’s a topic for another day. But a good and valid discussion. Let’s open up a new thread for that.

[Cronos]

God gives us the grace to have faith. We respond to God’s grace by faith. Our faith, if it is genuine, is shown through works.

Well put.